Yukon Gold, Golden Tiger Etc STAY AWAY!

[Freudian]

I will never put any money in a Casino Rewards casino again. Last time I was told a lot of lies by their support staff when wanting to cash out. After being given the runaround for ages I finally got my money and this group is on my personal black list. They will never see a cent from me.

 

[Stanford]

I will never put any money in a Casino Rewards casino again. Last time I was told a lot of lies by their support staff when wanting to cash out. After being given the runaround for ages I finally got my money and this group is on my personal black list. They will never see a cent from me.

I will play there if they can get straightened out. Spearmaster gives me hope they will. But Jetset's experience tells me this is one to stay away from till they change.

Now that CasinoMeister is back from vacation, I would like to hear his comments on this group. It is significant to note that Ecogra won't touch them. I wonder at what point the watchdogs of the gaming industry give up on them and refuse to list them as well.

Stanford

 

[jetset]

I will play there if they can get straightened out. Spearmaster gives me hope they will. But Jetset's experience tells me this is one to stay away from till they change.

Now that CasinoMeister is back from vacation, I would like to hear his comments on this group. It is significant to note that Ecogra won't touch them. I wonder at what point the watchdogs of the gaming industry give up on them and refuse to list them as well.

Stanford

Stanford, whilst I have not been impressed by the way these folks have handled yours and other cases recently, I think it should be understood that their lack of eCOGRA membership could be simply because they did not apply for it. This is a voluntary initiative by those casinos that are prepared to commit to defined principles, and it is possible that this group did not ask to be examined for membership.

 

[Stanford]

Stanford, whilst I have not been impressed by the way these folks have handled yours and other cases recently, I think it should be understood that their lack of eCOGRA membership could be simply because they did not apply for it. This is a voluntary initiative by those casinos that are prepared to commit to defined principles, and it is possible that this group did not ask to be examined for membership.

Hi Jetset,

Thanks for clearing up my sloppy writing.

I think players should derive comfort from the eCOGRA seal. Conversely, a higher level of caution for those casinos reluctant to commit to the defined standards seems prudent. But I have should not have implied that they may have been denied a membership. On the other hand, I would be disappointed if eCOGRA did approve a casino that engaged in retroactive application of bonus requirements.

Thanks again,
Stanford

 

[Casinomeister]

I notice CasinoMeister does *not* list them on his Reputable Sites list. I hope he will move them to the not recommended list or rogue list for their insistence on applying their terms retroactively.

They are not listed because they haven't (until just recently) approached me to come on board.

Seems like a lot of people are complaining about them, but where's the beef? I just went through the last 10 weeks of "Pitch a Bitches" (201 complaints) and only one from last Thursday for Yukon Gold - that's it.

If there are specific problems - they need to be addressed. I'm all ears.
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

 

[dominique]

They are on my personal s#!t list and will come down on the next update I do on my site. I am not sending others there.

 

[Freudian]

I will play there if they can get straightened out. Spearmaster gives me hope they will. But Jetset's experience tells me this is one to stay away from till they change.

Now that CasinoMeister is back from vacation, I would like to hear his comments on this group. It is significant to note that Ecogra won't touch them. I wonder at what point the watchdogs of the gaming industry give up on them and refuse to list them as well.

Stanford

I can tell you what happened.

1) Won money. Requested withdrawal.

2) Waited 2 weeks. Not a word from them. Contacted customer support and was told they had sent me a cheque despite me requesting Neteller withdrawal. This was unacceptable to me. Got told to return and talk to someone from finances.

3) Talked to someone from finances and got told they had not sent a cheque at all, but they required documents from me before processing the withdrawal.

4) Sent them my documents four times over a period of two weeks from two different email accounts. They claimed they didn't get them despite no mail ever bouncing.

5) Finally got on live support and decided to host the documents on my own server. I sat at my computer and watched them access the documents. Got told the withdrawal would happen "first thing tomorrow".

6) Nothing happened for a week. Contacted live support and was told that no withdrawal had been processed and that they needed documents from me. Once again hosted the documents on my server and one week later got my money.

So it took well over a month to get my money. I had to put in a huge effort for it to happen. I never once got a mail or anything from them telling me what they needed. Quite the opposite, they lied to me. They denied having recieved the documents despite me watching them get the documents.

I am just glad that after huge problems I got my money and can put them on my personal blacklist.

 

[Stanford]

Seems like a lot of people are complaining about them, but where's the beef?...
If there are specific problems - they need to be addressed. I'm all ears.
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

This is a rehash of the 2003 issue on retroactive application of bonus terms. There may be other issues as well.

As I recall you issued a warning about Lucky Emperor during that 2003 flairup. Fairbet, Spearmaster, and Jetset worked on it back then and I think everyone thought it was resolved. Here is the thread at WOL"

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

And Jetset and Spearmaster are working on the same type issue again in 2004.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I hope the players contact you and I appreciate all that you do for us. I am sure you will successfully negotiate for those players. Even so, absent Casino Rewards management commitment to honoring their terms and not retroactively applying new ones, I fear other players who don't find you will suffer.

Stanford

 

[Stanford]

I can tell you what happened.

So it took well over a month to get my money. I had to put in a huge effort for it to happen. I never once got a mail or anything from them telling me what they needed. Quite the opposite, they lied to me. They denied having recieved the documents despite me watching them get the documents.

I am just glad that after huge problems I got my money and can put them on my personal blacklist.

Hi Freudian,

Glad you got paid. What a pain. There is a story at Got2Bet about a player got his account locked and his winnings confiscated. I think Spearmaster got that squared away.

I don't blame you for blacklisting them. Who needs the grief. I do thank you for sharing the details with other players.

Stanford

 

[cj.]

QUOTE: I thikn overall, 95% of casinos online have no idea what the hell they are doing as a group.UNQUOTE

Whilst I believe the proportion of inefficient casinos is somewhat less than 95 percent, I would agree with this comment.

Time and again we see silly promos and even sillier attempts at subsequent damage control at the expense of pissing off and actually losing the customers, badly trained and poorly briefed CSR's who don't know what the hell is going on, affiliates doing weird things and plain dumb management decisions.

It all points to poor management capability imo, regardless of how "busy" a particular operation is.

How difficult can it be to coordinate the activities of your marketers sending out stuff willy-nilly and management decisions on taking clients off promo or mailing / telemarketing lists?

And we're not necessarily talking about the blatantly crooked rogue casinos here either!!!

Jetset, I couldn't agree more.

Entering the casino market after 6 years working online, I see many of the same problems here as in other markets.

Many business people do no understand technology - lots of online business owners don't even know how to use email making their online support look bad, but when you meet them in person you have a totally different opinion. Online and offline personalities never seem to match, and it all comes down to using the technology properly.

The legalities with casino licenses force companies to operate in countries which have very different ideas of what 'organised' and 'customer support' means. Rarely are you dealing with an actual casino owner, employee or representative - everyone seems to be a 3rd party and its 'not their problem'.

Casino management is located in all sorts of obscure locations, rarely do the employees speak english as their first language.

Like you said, it shouldn't be that hard to coordinate marketing and service, but I'm learning the hard way the sheer number of issues that are involved to make this simple process happen.

Too many 3rd parties involved in running a casino, and not enough involvement from the owners.

 

[spearmaster]

Too many 3rd parties involved in running a casino, and not enough involvement from the owners.

Sorry. This is utter nonsense.

Owners rarely, if ever, have any experience with:

* online marketing
* affiliate marketing
* online gambling
* odds
* support
* web design
* computers!!!

That doesn't mean that the 3rd party providers are good - in fact most of them suck big time - but in most cases they still do way better than any owner can do.

 

[dominique]

I wonder how many normal people take screen shots of their neteller transactions and keep them around?

Not me for sure.

Yet I was asked to produce one to cash out.

 

[Stanford]

Got2Bet still promotes Casino Rewards....

.. we are keeping them on the site as a show of good faith while we try to get some changes made to some of their terms and conditions which I personally find unacceptable if I am to continue promoting them.

However, rest assured that changes are definitely being discussed and that they are trying to seek the best possible result which will restore faith in their organization, without exposing them to what they feel are debatable tactics being used by some players.

Spear, is there any movement in this group. I hate to see this issue just drop until the next guy has a problem.

Thanks,
Stanford

 

[Chill]

I wonder how many normal people take screen shots of their neteller transactions and keep them around?

Not me for sure.

Yet I was asked to produce one to cash out.

It takes like 2 minutes to "produce" a screenshot, so don't see the problem..

 

[spearmaster]

Spear, is there any movement in this group. I hate to see this issue just drop until the next guy has a problem.

Thanks,
Stanford

As a matter of fact, I have just raised the issue with them again - so let's see what happens. They are genuinely looking for alternatives but have yet to find a suitable one.

 

[Stanford]

As a matter of fact, I have just raised the issue with them again - so let's see what happens. They are genuinely looking for alternatives but have yet to find a suitable one.

Good to hear.

I know you can't discuss everything they tell you here, but I am sure curious what it is they are trying to accomplish by playing games with the bonus terms. I know it has something to do with Bonus Abuse, but I don't know what the issues are.

But again, I know you can't discuss everything here.

Thanks again,
Stanford

 

[spearmaster]

Actually, there isn't much that I *can't* say LOL.

You are correct in saying that this condition was put in as a method to control bonus hunting - ie. set autoplay to play X number of hands at $1 while you sleep - wake up in the morning, and cash out.

I told them I agreed with their reasoning - but not with their method - in other words, banning autoplay is not acceptable, but protecting yourself against bonus hunters is. If I were to use Autoplay to play Keno, would they ban me too? Of course not.

It's bad enough that some games are banned from bonus playthrough requirements - now they want to tell us what method of play is acceptable? This is too close to the Delano/Pirate saga, banning of robots... and since the "bot" is built into the software, players should have every right to use it - period.

 

[Stanford]

It's bad enough that some games are banned from bonus playthrough requirements - now they want to tell us what method of play is acceptable? This is too close to the Delano/Pirate saga, banning of robots... and since the "bot" is built into the software, players should have every right to use it - period.

I see your concern. I thought they had started applying current WRs to prior awarded bonuses. That was the same issue from a year ago. Is that part of the auto play issue/ Have they agreed not to apply bonus terms retroactively?

I don't think they will ever be able to eliminate sharp play completely, which is what it seems they want to accomplish. A bonus hunter is nothing more than someone who plays as offered. But if they want to have more control, they could offer a smaller bonus on the front end and bigger cash back for returning players. By using individual "player cards" they could then tailor each players promotion to the player.

Or (for the signon bonus), they could limit each game or game type to say 20%. But allow all the games. Then the player will play a number of things and "try out" the casino. Sure some sharp players will figure out the best mathematical combination to play, but others will try games they normally wouldn't.

But my main concern is that what ever they do, they don't apply the rules retroactively. Calling a player a bonus hunter can never be an excuse. And the more complicated their rules, the more likly that the bonus will attact only the more sophisticated bonus hunter that can decipher them.

Stanford

 

[venetian]

this thread started out with a warning about casino rewards and their group of casinos. I have played Golden Tiger for years with no problems. But after reading the beginning of this thread I have taken them off my computer. I want to thank you guys tht keeping a watch over all of us. Now I am not sure where to play. I think I have tried them all. I will say that this summer I have had very little success at GT and was wondering if they had changed their ways. I'm glad I am out for good. Thanks

 

[Stanford]

I have played Golden Tiger for years with no problems. But after reading the beginning of this thread I have taken them off my computer. I want to thank you guys tht keeping a watch over all of us. Now I am not sure where to play.

I think Fortune Lounge is still a good place to play. They send me little in the way of bonus money, but they are always seem more honest.

Consider this issue of retroactive bonus terms. Fortune Lounge has a thread on this on WOL just recently. VPOPS states without any waffle, "We do not apply Terms and Conditions retroactively".

That's what we need here. Do a search on Casino Rewards here and at WOL and you can see how long this has been going on. In the past, CasinoMesiter has responded to the policy with "WTF". Spearmaster has noted sarcastically that players forget about reading the terms at all - just wait to you cash in to see what they are.

They only get away with this because portals still promote them. WOL promotes them heavily. But some more responsible portals have already started to take them down.

I am hoping the lesson will one be that fair play is good marketing. If the players keep pushing this issue, it might happen.

imho,
Stanford

 

[venetian]

I used to play at FL group. I actually like their telemarketing...am I nuts??? But the guys are so nice and we joke around. They have given me hundreds of dollars to play with no strings attatched to get me back to playing like I used to. But I don't play their anymore (unless they give me $$) because I DO NOT WIN!! I tell them that I wish I could win enough to play more than 10 minutes, but it never happens. So I am still searching for a place to play. I long for the good old days when I played at Dice and Grand Banks and collected thousands from them. After a nice VP 2 royal run one weekend Dice put me as a bonus abuser and you all know what happened at GB. I just want a fair fun place to play. I like MG sites best. Right now I am not playing anywhere and am drooling looking at everyones screenshots. Help feed my addiction

 

[jpm]

Try Big Dollar, great comps and I have probably 90% winning sessions there (up about 2k right now). Also try Monaco Gold casino, its a playtech with 100% bonus up to $200, 12x playthru with vp being ok. Hit a royal there doing my playthru last nite. I put a screen shot in another thread here if you want to see (look for the thread titled What are the odds of this).

 

[spearmaster]

Finally... I have now been told that the Autoplay restriction will shortly be removed from the T&Cs. Took a while, but at least action is being taken - let's check again next week to see if this is the case.

 

[Stanford]

Finally... I have now been told that the Autoplay restriction will shortly be removed from the T&Cs. Took a while, but at least action is being taken - let's check again next week to see if this is the case.

But will they still apply terms retroactive. That was the issue ages ago and then again not long ago. I think the threads go back over a year. This is the same issue Jetset was trying to work on recently and gave up on completely.

Can you get the same commitment from them as we got from Fortune Lounge. VPOPS doesn't quibble. They don't apply terms retroactively.

Is this group willing to do that?

Stanford

 

[spearmaster]

The best answer I have for that is that terms should never be applied retroactively - if this occurs please let me know.