When does a joke go too far?

[Balthazar]

Radio station to donate $524,000 to fund for family of nurse who took hoax call about Prince William's wife, Catherine.

cnn.com/2012/12/11/world/asia/australia-uk-prank-call/


It's getting overly ridiculous now.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The latest interviews with station management and the two presenters involved in this affair raise interesting questions for me, and in one case confirm the view of earlier posters in this thread (I think it was Skiny) who opined that management had had to approve the hoax call.

1. At a press conference before some probing Aussie journalists, a station executive appeared to me to evade the question of whether management was involved in approving the incident for broadcast. He also said that on five occasions the station had attempted to get permission to broadcast, but when pushed to clarify whether such approval had been received he again appeared to dodge the question - I'm sure most members here have seen the widely screened event and will draw their own conclusions on his performance.

The hospital management later felt compelled to issue another statement claiming that no member of management, or of media liaison for the hospital had received any such calls, and therefore no approval had been given.

2. The interview with the two presenters explored the vetting "process" at the radio station, with the duo confirming that their job was simply to make the call, record it and then pass it up the ladder to others who made the decisions as to whether it would be broadcast. That appears to confirm the views expressed here that the hoax was not just two presenters having some uncontrolled "fun" at the expense of others, but an event which was (presumably) responsibly considered by more senior people at the station. Again, I found the presenters somewhat evasive - example: when asked whether she thought the buck stopped higher than herself, the woman presenter went off on a tearful and repetitive tangent about the family of the unfortunate nurse whose demise we have been discussing.

The presenters' version appears to be that their accents were so obviously bad (in terms of impersonating the Queen and Prince Charles) that the whole intention was to make themselves the butt of the "joke" when the nursing staff simply hung up on them. They were astonished to get as far as they did with their plan, if they are to be believed.
The outcome of the discussion between the Aussie broadcasting authorities and the station has yet to surface,

If this were true, the stunt would have been deemed a failure, and therefore NOT broadcast.

Radio station to donate $524,000 to fund for family of nurse who took hoax call about Prince William's wife, Catherine.

cnn.com/2012/12/11/world/asia/australia-uk-prank-call/


It's getting overly ridiculous now.

They are trying to buy off the family, rather than have them take legal action for damages. They would be unlikely to get an award this high in court, and lack of a court hearing means the issue will not be dissected in public for all to scrutinise. There would be no avoiding the question by going off at a tangent in a court as there was in the press conference. The court would examine the who, what, when, and why of the whole process from thinking up this stunt to it's broadcast. It might place some faceless manager in the limelight, rather than the presenters. Maybe part of the reason the presenters are being "looked after" rather than being made the scapegoat and fired is what they might reveal if sent on their way. Their being looked after probably comes at a price, their silence on the matter, which could be why they became evasive during the press conference. They had been briefed as to what they could and couldn't answer questions about beforehand.

 

[Nifty29]

If this were true, the stunt would have been deemed a failure, and therefore NOT broadcast.



They are trying to buy off the family, rather than have them take legal action for damages. They would be unlikely to get an award this high in court, and lack of a court hearing means the issue will not be dissected in public for all to scrutinise. There would be no avoiding the question by going off at a tangent in a court as there was in the press conference. The court would examine the who, what, when, and why of the whole process from thinking up this stunt to it's broadcast. It might place some faceless manager in the limelight, rather than the presenters. Maybe part of the reason the presenters are being "looked after" rather than being made the scapegoat and fired is what they might reveal if sent on their way. Their being looked after probably comes at a price, their silence on the matter, which could be why they became evasive during the press conference. They had been briefed as to what they could and couldn't answer questions about beforehand.

It wasn't a press conference. It was an interview for a current affairs show over here and was entirely voluntary.

IMO it is disgraceful how much flak the DJs are getting. I can actually understand if the crap they are getting lead either of them to take their own life......certainly more than someone transferring a phone call. Who knows? Maybe hospital management gave her a total bollocking and threatened her? I mean, they didn't even organize any counselling before, or after for the other staff and family......and the DJs are copping it for being insensitive?. Sheesh.

It's time for people to realise that this prank was the tip of the iceberg for this nurse, and it could have been anything or anyone at any time.....and there was NO way ANYONE could have dreamed that someone involved would commit suicide. I mean, tell me seriously that any manager or DJ, when discussing the possible ways a prank could go wrong, would say "oh hang on....what if whoever we speak to actually gets sucked in and tops themselves....we better not do it".

Mark my words....this nurse had mental and/or emotional issues far beyond anything resulting from the prank. Nobody wants to discuss it now, but when the dust settles people who knew her will paint a different picture to the completely happy,content and perfect nurse we are all hearing about.....which is understandable during grieving. I have a psychologist friend who told me that events like this are triggers, and, like this one, they are almost always inert and harmless when taken in isolation. The only reasonable way to judge whoever instigated the event is to ascertain whether any malice was involved....and there is no doubt that the DJs were not out to hurt or insult anybody.

As for the $500k, well from all reports it appears the family are already well off, so I don't see the point. It's not going to bring her back. It would have been better donated to a suicide prevention and mental illness charity, rather than to a businessman to buy property etc with.

The DJs are human beings. Anybody who hasn't watched the interview should do so. If you can't see REAL grief, pain and remorse, then there's something wrong with you.

The way the UK rags are carrying on, you'd think the DJs had got out of bed that morning and said "Hey let's see if we can get someone to kill themselves today! Awesome ratings winner!". Just about every report I've seen is either inaccurate, narrow minded or both.

Again, this nurse was acting as a receptionist because the usual person wasn't there for whatever reason, and merely transferred the call. If the SECOND nurse had used her professional discretion, she would have properly verified to whom she was speaking before revealing personal medical information, and the whole tragedy may never have taken place. Where is the outcry about HER contribution to the nurse's death? The UK press, and by extension many of the UK people, just aren't bothering to consider other angles.....and why would they? There's no copy in that is there? Far easier to whip up anti-Aussie fervor and make some money to boot. IMO, they are worse than the DJs, in that they are doing something stupid and ill-considered just to get ratings.

If god forbid one of the DJs took their own life, I wonder who the media etc would blame for that? I'll wager it would be laid squarely at the individual's feet.

 

[skiny]

It's time for people to realise that this prank was the tip of the iceberg for this nurse, and it could have been anything or anyone at any time.....and there was NO way ANYONE could have dreamed that someone involved would commit suicide. I mean, tell me seriously that any manager or DJ, when discussing the possible ways a prank could go wrong, would say "oh hang on....what if whoever we speak to actually gets sucked in and tops themselves....we better not do it".

Mark my words....this nurse had mental and/or emotional issues far beyond anything resulting from the prank. Nobody wants to discuss it now, but when the dust settles people who knew her will paint a different picture to the completely happy,content and perfect nurse we are all hearing about.....which is understandable during grieving. I have a psychologist friend who told me that events like this are triggers, and, like this one, they are almost always inert and harmless when taken in isolation. The only reasonable way to judge whoever instigated the event is to ascertain whether any malice was involved....and there is no doubt that the DJs were not out to hurt or insult anybody.

Sometimes you don't notice that people are already a little off balance and you give them a bit of a shove. It's always funny 'till someone gets hurt.

It's impossible to say for sure that this once incident was enough to cause a woman to kill herself. I do think it's highly unlikely that a person would kill themselves over something this trivial unless there were pre-existing issues and this was the catalyst. But at the same time it was a completely unnecessary catalyst.

I really can't understand what this radio station was thinking when they decided a good place to pull a prank would be a hospital. Doctors and nurses are already under a great deal of stress. Just because a famous public figure is at the hospital doesn't make it play time or fair game for people who want to be foolish and intrusive. I'm pretty sure hospital staff have more important things to do than talk to radio personalities on the phone who are pretending to be family members of patients for a joke. If Kate wasn't ill that day maybe they could have called the police station and falsely reported some crimes or if they were really lucky there might have been a viewing at a funeral home and they could have called and pretended to be related to the deceased.

They started something that was at the very least in bad taste and quite possibly illegal and the final result MAY have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back causing a woman to take her own life. In my opinion there should be a law against calling anyone on the phone and pretending to be anyone but who you actually are and I'm pretty sure broadcasting these calls without permission is illegal in most countries.

If the DJs are remorseful that's good. They should be. And so should anyone else who decided that pestering a hospital would be funny for any reason.

 

[secret2]

I just feel so bad for all concerned.

The DJ's are so young and who would of thought that a silly prank call would result to this?

I heard the DJ's and they sounded so in shock...

I am worried for their mental wellness, too.They will be in therapy for years..but I, for one, would never,ever forgive myself....but at the same time....it was a 'harmless' prank call.They are so young...I just hope they can find peace as well as the nurses family...maybe a mediating meeting with the family may help down the line.

Ever since' Howard Stern' and 'Opie and Anthony' and the 'Bob Grant' show...each of these shows have had some bad endings...just treat each other with kindness already! and if you don't like the 'kindness'...then get a life and do something to make your life a little crazy, like sky diving or bungy jumping...but don't screw with other people's minds...because you never know..

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

I have seen the interview in its entirety,she was in tears but I don't think anyone can say if it was genuine or not.Only her.


If there was more than just this prank you would have expected somebody to have reported it by now ie she had huge debts,an impending divorce etc.Either way simply saying "this was the straw that broke the camels back" or "loads of people have done this before" is not a reasonable excuse.


I will say maybe the people above the 2 DJ's are more at fault,there seems to be some confusion on this from what I have heard as nobody can get their facts straight and when asked a simple question about it being passed upstairs it was dodged.

 

[Nifty29]

I have seen the interview in its entirety,she was in tears but I don't think anyone can say if it was genuine or not.Only her.


If there was more than just this prank you would have expected somebody to have reported it by now ie she had huge debts,an impending divorce etc.Either way simply saying "this was the straw that broke the camels back" or "loads of people have done this before" is not a reasonable excuse.


I will say maybe the people above the 2 DJ's are more at fault,there seems to be some confusion on this from what I have heard as nobody can get their facts straight and when asked a simple question about it being passed upstairs it was dodged.

Background information would not be expected to be reported at this point, with the funeral etc all pending and the family in grief. I doubt anyone close to them, who would be the ones who know, would reveal negative stuff until the smoke clears.

Saying that "the straw that broke the camel's back" is not a reasonable excuse (well nobody said it was an excuse...merely a reason) shows that you don't have a great understanding of mental illness and suicide. The decision to take one's own life is seldom based on one single event.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Background information would not be expected to be reported at this point, with the funeral etc all pending and the family in grief. I doubt anyone close to them, who would be the ones who know, would reveal negative stuff until the smoke clears.

Saying that "the straw that broke the camel's back" is not a reasonable excuse (well nobody said it was an excuse...merely a reason) shows that you don't have a great understanding of mental illness and suicide. The decision to take one's own life is seldom based on one single event.

Either way,the fact that nobody can agree that it was or wasn't passed upstairs,or that the radio station did try to make contact with the hospital 5 times (or at all) or that either keeps being dodged is a bit weird.

Also that these 2 had to have a "spokesman" present to tell them what they could answer only adds to the uncertainty.

And me not having an understanding of mental illness doesn't mean seldom means never.

 

[Nifty29]

It has been revealed that the nurse left a suicide note.

The husband is refusing to allow it to be released.

It has also been revealed that she was living apart from her husband in the nurse's quarters. Not the close knit family we have been been led to perceive perhaps?

Certainly puts an interesting spin on things.

With $500k+ at stake, I doubt the note will be released if it reveals that the prank was not the real cause.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Doesn't the 500K go to her charity that is being set up whether the reason she committed suicide was down to the prank or not?

Seems a bit weird if there's a clause in some sort of contract concerning the money.

I said earlier if there was no other reason she died the press would be blamed as "why would they report it?",seems its now the same with this note she left.


EDIT: May I refer people to a case around a year ago,the case of Welsh football manager Gary Speed who was found hanged at his home due to what his wife said was a simple argument they had had in the past.Nothing more,nothing less.

I shall not post a link as its easy to look up.A man with a great wage,no issues and a great job.

 

[jetset]

Sometimes you don't notice that people are already a little off balance and you give them a bit of a shove. It's always funny 'till someone gets hurt.

It's impossible to say for sure that this once incident was enough to cause a woman to kill herself. I do think it's highly unlikely that a person would kill themselves over something this trivial unless there were pre-existing issues and this was the catalyst. But at the same time it was a completely unnecessary catalyst.

I really can't understand what this radio station was thinking when they decided a good place to pull a prank would be a hospital. Doctors and nurses are already under a great deal of stress. Just because a famous public figure is at the hospital doesn't make it play time or fair game for people who want to be foolish and intrusive. I'm pretty sure hospital staff have more important things to do than talk to radio personalities on the phone who are pretending to be family members of patients for a joke. If Kate wasn't ill that day maybe they could have called the police station and falsely reported some crimes or if they were really lucky there might have been a viewing at a funeral home and they could have called and pretended to be related to the deceased.

They started something that was at the very least in bad taste and quite possibly illegal and the final result MAY have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back causing a woman to take her own life. In my opinion there should be a law against calling anyone on the phone and pretending to be anyone but who you actually are and I'm pretty sure broadcasting these calls without permission is illegal in most countries.

If the DJs are remorseful that's good. They should be. And so should anyone else who decided that pestering a hospital would be funny for any reason.

Well said, Skiny - to which I would add again my personal beef at the lack of respect for privacy evidenced by vetting management at the station concerning this silly prank.

And Nifty - in my opinion you perhaps need to reexamine your implication in a couple of posts here that there is something anti-Australian about the opinions being expressed by other posters and (allegedly) the UK media. I don't believe that is the case at all... it's a legitimate story no matter where it originated, and in the same way that you have your own strong views on the role of the station and its presenters in this, others have theirs, which are equally legitimate to express and in their eyes just as accurate as your own.

 

[skiny]

Well said, Skiny - to which I would add again my personal beef at the lack of respect for privacy evidenced by vetting management at the station concerning this silly prank.

And Nifty - in my opinion you perhaps need to reexamine your implication in a couple of posts here that there is something anti-Australian about the opinions being expressed by other posters and (allegedly) the UK media. I don't believe that is the case at all... it's a legitimate story no matter where it originated, and in the same way that you have your own strong views on the role of the station and its presenters in this, others have theirs, which are equally legitimate to express and in their eyes just as accurate as your own.

I haven't really been following the story any further in the media but it wouldn't matter where on the planet this happened. None of my opinions would have changed about it.

 

[Nifty29]

Well said, Skiny - to which I would add again my personal beef at the lack of respect for privacy evidenced by vetting management at the station concerning this silly prank.

And Nifty - in my opinion you perhaps need to reexamine your implication in a couple of posts here that there is something anti-Australian about the opinions being expressed by other posters and (allegedly) the UK media. I don't believe that is the case at all... it's a legitimate story no matter where it originated, and in the same way that you have your own strong views on the role of the station and its presenters in this, others have theirs, which are equally legitimate to express and in their eyes just as accurate as your own.

We will agree to disagree.

I don't need to re-examine my opinion that the UK press are ignoring almost every other aspect of this tragedy, bar 2 Aussie DJs. The UK media, and it seems most UK posters, squarely blame the DJs for the suicide....and that defies all common sense, as none of us know what was on the nurse's mind when she hung herself. I'll wager it wasn't the 2 Aussie DJs. She left a note. We will know the real reasons when, and if, we discover it's contents.

Considering it would be up to the husband to release the note's contents, I would be unnerved if he decided not to do so. It would certainly cause me, and others I am sure, to question his motives, given that it may well implicate him or their marriage (not saying it WOULD, just that it MIGHT). Surely, if the note doesn't mention anything, or very little, about the phone call, you would want the DJs to know that, so they might at least gain some comfort from knowing that it wasn't all down to them. If anyone thinks that the sole reason she killed herself was a prank call from a radio station, in which she revealed NOTHING, they are kidding themselves IMO.

I also think that is this involved anyone other than Princess Kate or another popular royal, it would not be half the story that it is today. She is a person like any other, and her right to privacy should be no greater than anyone else. It's awful that the nurse (apparently) felt shame due to the patient involved, as it shows that some consider the royals to be some kind of demigods or better class of people, when in fact their history shows otherwise. I don't want to turn this into a monarchy debate, but this particular aspect is relevant to the situation.

Where did I say that others did not have the right to express their views, and that those views are not legitimate? I don't have to agree they are accurate.

 

[jetset]

<shrug> as you wish.

My reading on the reaction here at least is that few believe the hoax was the direct cause of the suicide (there's an inquest scheduled for today I see) I think that's pretty much common cause. It may have been a contributing factor though, and hopefully the truth will emerge in the various enquiries.

Meantime, I've just been watching a news report that the Aussie broadcasting authorities are fast-tracking an enquiry into the station's behaviour, so perhaps the management's (as perceived by me) evasive behaviour on the question of whether permission to broadcast was actually obtained will eventually be answered...and the whole station process clarified.

Edited to add that my objection to the lack of respect for privacy in this ill-considered stunt has nothing to do with the fact that this personal intrusion involved a member of the royal family (I'm actually not much of a monarchist). My personal antipathy here remains on grounds of privacy - whoever the patient happened to be.

 

[maxd]

Is it going TOO far to correct the thread title, assuming of course that the joke was not going TO a place called Far?

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Is it going TOO far to correct the thread title, assuming of course that the joke was not going TO a place called Far?

It was a typo-obviously.

I wasn't going to bring it up as I thought I'd got away with it!

Anyhow,seeing as an inquest is scheduled for March and everybody knows there are 3 suicide notes,won't all 3 be examined as part of that?

 

[Nifty29]

Quote from ninemsn.com.au

It's alleged Jacintha Saldanha left a note for her husband and children, aged 17 and 14, but the family still believe there are 'unexplained circumstances' and are demanding answers from Ms Saldanha employer, King Edward VII Hospital.

Sounds like the family think that the nurse may have been mistreated/bullied/threatened by the hospital management.

I don't recall seeing anything about 3 suicide notes. Seems a bit unusual.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Quote from ninemsn.com.au



Sounds like the family think that the nurse may have been mistreated/bullied/threatened by the hospital management.

I don't recall seeing anything about 3 suicide notes. Seems a bit unusual.

Yeah 1 for her colleagues,1 for the husband and I'm not sure who else.Said the same on both BBC and ITV news.

 

[Seventh777]

Quote from ninemsn.com.au



Sounds like the family think that the nurse may have been mistreated/bullied/threatened by the hospital management.

I don't recall seeing anything about 3 suicide notes. Seems a bit unusual.

It appears she did actually leave 3 notes

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One - What the papers want to see.

Two - What Hollywood want to see, regarding the incoming 5 part film sequels.

Three - The truth.

 

[skiny]

I heard on the radio this morning she left 3 notes. It's the first I'd heard it.

 

[max1mike]

suicide is no ones fault, except for the person who kills themself. to blame the nurses death on anyone but herself is bulshit.

 

[ilovejesus]

suicide is no ones fault, except for the person who kills themself. to blame the nurses death on anyone but herself is bulshit.

yes i agree with you

 

[LaHutti]

That could turn in to a long discussion.
I tend to disagree, that in all cases of suicide, no blame can be placed on anyone but the victim.... let me refrase that ...that's simply not true.
People have been driven to commit suicide before...I'm not saying that that's the case here, since we don't really know what else was going on in her life. If this was what pushed her over the edge, it's truly sad, but I have a very hard time believing that we've heard everything in this case.

That said, I think they took it too far...there are jokes, that are funny, and then there are radio and tv stations, that just can't find the line, and cross it, thinking that's what they need to do to get viewers and listeners....I have news for them...all they have to do, is make quality radio and tv.

suicide is no ones fault, except for the person who kills themself. to blame the nurses death on anyone but herself is bulshit.

 

[Nifty29]

That could turn in to a long discussion.
I tend to disagree, that in all cases of suicide, no blame can be placed on anyone but the victim.... let me refrase that ...that's simply not true.
People have been driven to commit suicide before...I'm not saying that that's the case here, since we don't really know what else was going on in her life. If this was what pushed her over the edge, it's truly sad, but I have a very hard time believing that we've heard everything in this case.

That said, I think they took it too far...there are jokes, that are funny, and then there are radio and tv stations, that just can't find the line, and cross it, thinking that's what they need to do to get viewers and listeners....I have news for them...all they have to do, is make quality radio and tv.

I agree with most of what you said, except the part about the suicidee not being responsible for their decision. One could argue that when one is high on booze or drugs, or coming down from these things, one can't make responsible decisions.....however they chose to drink or take drugs etc, so I still don't see how others are wholly to blame.

I agree the joke was ill-considered and did go too far (they should have hung up the minute they were transferred IMO), but IMO there is a huge chasm between a joke going to far and being responsible for someone's death.

It seems she had problems with her workmates/workplace. I'm sure the inquest will reveal all in due course.

The REAL idiocy is that the DJs plus ten other 2dayfm staff are in hiding with armed bodyguards because some twat has made serious death threats. It's just not right under any circumstances.

 

[LaHutti]

Ofcourse people have some responsibility, when they decide to take their own life.
I'm pretty sure tho, that every psychiatrist in the world, could tell you about the influence other peoples actions, both physically and psychologically, can have, on your mind and your (re)actions, especially if you don't have the strongest mind to begin with.
Not having the strongest mind to begin with, is often related to other peoples actions early on in your life too btw....and then some people seem to be born with a stronger mind than others.

I agree with most of what you said, except the part about the suicidee not being responsible for their decision. One could argue that when one is high on booze or drugs, or coming down from these things, one can't make responsible decisions.....however they chose to drink or take drugs etc, so I still don't see how others are wholly to blame.

I agree the joke was ill-considered and did go too far (they should have hung up the minute they were transferred IMO), but IMO there is a huge chasm between a joke going to far and being responsible for someone's death.

It seems she had problems with her workmates/workplace. I'm sure the inquest will reveal all in due course.

The REAL idiocy is that the DJs plus ten other 2dayfm staff are in hiding with armed bodyguards because some twat has made serious death threats. It's just not right under any circumstances.

 

[skiny]

I agree with most of what you said, except the part about the suicidee not being responsible for their decision. One could argue that when one is high on booze or drugs, or coming down from these things, one can't make responsible decisions.....however they chose to drink or take drugs etc, so I still don't see how others are wholly to blame.

I would agree if the person committing suicide was high or drunk. If a suicide is the result of a mental instability then the person committing it is incapable of making a responsible decision. I doubt many sane people commit suicide. Many mental disorders are often hard to detect though so you can't always blame the people around the victim for not recognizing the threat. I've said right from the start that I don't think the DJs are guilty of directly causing the death of this nurse even if the prank they pulled did add to whatever burden this nurse could no longer face. But I do think they are guilty of something. I just can't understand how pulling a prank on a hospital can be legal.

I agree the joke was ill-considered and did go too far (they should have hung up the minute they were transferred IMO), but IMO there is a huge chasm between a joke going to far and being responsible for someone's death.

It seems she had problems with her workmates/workplace. I'm sure the inquest will reveal all in due course.

The REAL idiocy is that the DJs plus ten other 2dayfm staff are in hiding with armed bodyguards because some twat has made serious death threats. It's just not right under any circumstances.

I'm not sure how threatening to intentionally kill someone would make him better than possibly adding to the cause of someone's death unintentionally. Even if the DJs did add to the cause of her death accidentally that would only make them unlucky and stupid. Killing the DJs on purpose would make him a murderer. It's up to the police and the courts to decide if the DJs and the station broke the law and if they did it's up to the courts to decide how they'll be punished. It's up to everyone else to stay out of the way.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

I agree with most of what you said, except the part about the suicidee not being responsible for their decision. One could argue that when one is high on booze or drugs, or coming down from these things, one can't make responsible decisions.....however they chose to drink or take drugs etc, so I still don't see how others are wholly to blame.

I agree the joke was ill-considered and did go too far (they should have hung up the minute they were transferred IMO), but IMO there is a huge chasm between a joke going to far and being responsible for someone's death.

It seems she had problems with her workmates/workplace. I'm sure the inquest will reveal all in due course.

The REAL idiocy is that the DJs plus ten other 2dayfm staff are in hiding with armed bodyguards because some twat has made serious death threats. It's just not right under any circumstances.

Agreed,seems sort of sick to prank any places like hospitals,rehab centres etc.

As for the death threats,as I said earlier they are sick and they should be prosecuted themselves.Seems somewhat hypocritical as one would assume they believe the nurse died as a result of the DJ's phone call yet they send messages of death threats themselves which could result in another death-which nobody wants.

 

[Nifty29]

Did myself and a few others here say something about there being more to this than meets the eye?....

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I feel even sorrier for the DJs. Seems this nurse was right on the edge anyway....anything could have tipped her over, even an argument at work or even someone cutting her off on the road. As I said before, if a (intrinsically harmless) phone call is the "trigger" for suicide, then there are far bigger problems in their life. I would say that 99.99999% of people who were "pranked" in this way would either laugh it off or take whatever schtick they got on the chin for being so flippant about privacy, as this nurse was in transferring that call.

It's a sad day IMO if radio stations stop doing prank calls altogether because one mentally unstable person couldn't bear the (as yet non-existent) repercussions. After all, the royal family took no action and neither did the hospital, so there was no "impending doom" etc for this person.

Obviously more will come out, but I really hope reasonable people come to realise that the nurse's mental illness and suicidal tendencies were the cause of her death....not some benign, non-threatening phone call. I mean, what if she went to the canteen that day and someone pushed ahead of her in the line or something, and she almost fell over and was embarrassed.....and then, rather than deal with it there and then, went home that night and mulled it over and over and ended up hanging herself. Do we charge the person who pushed in the queue with manslaughter?? Come on. It's obvious it could have been any small innocent event that was the trigger. Remember, depression is often anger turned inward and the slightest and most innocent mis-step or remark from another can be enough to cause a tragedy....but we don't have a witch hunt every time someone commits suicide because they were offended in some way by something or someone.

Suicide is very rarely the result of one event. Certainly not one as minor as this call. Even people who experience great loss who commit suicide don't necessarily do it just because of that loss...it is most often a combination of factors.

Time to leave these DJs alone to get back to their lives IMO. You know, the DAD of the female DJ, who is not involved AND lives in a different state (some 1200kms away) has had to hire a 24/7 security guard for HIS family home due to death threats etc against HIM. WTF?? It's a thousand times worse than anything the Djs did. In fact, if we all had a good hard think, we could probably come up with some things we said or did that might have hurt someone at some point....and it may well have been enough to push someone over the edge....but we can't KNOW that. IMO many who are pointing the finger at the DJs are throwing stones in glass houses.

 

[skiny]

I've known people who suffer depression. It doesn't happen because of one phone call. I still think pranking a hospital should be illegal regardless of who does it.

many who are pointing the finger at the DJs are throwing stones in glass houses.

I remember many years ago when I was younger I was at a yard party out in the country. It was an older house, the bottom floor was mostly stonework on the outside walls. One guy at the party takes a beer out of the cooler and tosses to a guy next to me who misses it completely and it smashes. I said "Jesus... Don't you know people who live in stone houses shouldn't throw... hang on that's not right."

 

[rockycatt]

[When does a joke go too far? ] first of all nobody has a right to prank another person , not all people are emotional
fit and ready to accept the end of a ignorant prankster's juvenile fun at others expense binge

i honestly think the two radio announcers are getting what they deserve , and that's life on the pranksters side although there getting off cheap



and a thought -->: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance is a bigot

 

[Nifty29]

[When does a joke go too far? ] first of all nobody has a right to prank another person , not all people are emotional
fit and ready to accept the end of a ignorant prankster's juvenile fun at others expense binge

..??... I don't even know what you're on about here.

i honestly think the two radio announcers are getting what they deserve , and that's life on the pranksters side although there getting off cheap

Ummm...yeah. Prank callers are worthy of the electric chair, but people trying to kill not only the prankster but their FAMILY is just fine i.e. they deserve it. Well I guess if someone burns their house down and kills them and their loved ones, then they're getting off cheap.

Anyone wondering what the problem is in some parts of the world need look no further than your remarks above..



and a thought -->: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance is a bigot

Describes your comments to a "T".

I'd say opining that the DJs "deserve whatever they get" is incredibly intolerant and prejudiced (given you're ignoring all the facts).

Shoot first...ask questions later.

 

[secret2]

I honestly feel so bad for these young DJ's and obviously for the family of the nurse.

I can tell from the videos that they never expected this outcome. They are gutted.

I feel so bad for them.

There are other shock-jocks that may not own up to this amount of honesty as these guys.

I really don't think that they will do the prank calls again, particularly because this was 'left-field'.

 

[rockycatt]

revisited

Originally Posted by rockycatt

[When does a joke go too far? ] first of all nobody has a right to prank another person , not all people are emotional
fit and ready to accept the end of a ignorant prankster's juvenile fun at others expense binge

 

[Nifty29]

Originally Posted by rockycatt

[When does a joke go too far? ] first of all nobody has a right to prank another person , not all people are emotional
fit and ready to accept the end of a ignorant prankster's juvenile fun at others expense binge

So, you have NEVER EVER pulled a prank on ANYONE in your WHOLE life?

I find that very hard to believe. Impossible, in fact.

(I'm assuming that is what you were trying to say...??)

 

[secret2]

Originally Posted by rockycatt

[When does a joke go too far? ] first of all nobody has a right to prank another person , not all people are emotional
fit and ready to accept the end of a ignorant prankster's juvenile fun at others expense binge

I agree, Rocky. It's just that 'we' the listeners love to hear pranks. This one was, imvho, a very innocent one.

Who would of thought that this would be the outcome?...Having said that, I agree pranking others is not funny...

I can never understand why some people get a kick out of others embarrasment....it's not that funny.

 

[skiny]

I agree, Rocky. It's just that 'we' the listeners love to hear pranks. This one was, imvho, a very innocent one.

Who would of thought that this would be the outcome?...Having said that, I agree pranking others is not funny...

I can never understand why some people get a kick out of others embarrasment....it's not that funny.

I just don't think pranking a hospital is innocent. I don't think they caused the death of the nurse but it still bugs me that they felt it was ok to play a joke on a hospital.

 

[secret2]

I just don't think pranking a hospital is innocent. I don't think they caused the death of the nurse but it still bugs me that they felt it was ok to play a joke on a hospital.

I understand but , if you can see the level of innocense here and take a step back to see that their intention was not to harm anyone but just light-hearted humour at the Queens expense. As we know the Queen has had the 'mick' taken from her on many occasions.

The accent was terrible, and I thought it would be obvious that it was not the Queen that called...so the first nurse didn't catch on and so she passed it on to the nurse that was on duty and it just happened to be someone who was on the 'edge' already, apparently.

It's a big event, Kate in hospital with her pregnancy and so it only would tell you that if the paparazzi cannot enter the hospital,then other means were available...

It was a very innocent prank, that no one would have thought that this would be the outcome.

I just don't think that what these young guys did was THAT bad.....but the outcome was.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Did myself and a few others here say something about there being more to this than meets the eye?....

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I feel even sorrier for the DJs. Seems this nurse was right on the edge anyway....anything could have tipped her over, even an argument at work or even someone cutting her off on the road. As I said before, if a (intrinsically harmless) phone call is the "trigger" for suicide, then there are far bigger problems in their life. I would say that 99.99999% of people who were "pranked" in this way would either laugh it off or take whatever schtick they got on the chin for being so flippant about privacy, as this nurse was in transferring that call.

It's a sad day IMO if radio stations stop doing prank calls altogether because one mentally unstable person couldn't bear the (as yet non-existent) repercussions. After all, the royal family took no action and neither did the hospital, so there was no "impending doom" etc for this person.

Obviously more will come out, but I really hope reasonable people come to realise that the nurse's mental illness and suicidal tendencies were the cause of her death....not some benign, non-threatening phone call. I mean, what if she went to the canteen that day and someone pushed ahead of her in the line or something, and she almost fell over and was embarrassed.....and then, rather than deal with it there and then, went home that night and mulled it over and over and ended up hanging herself. Do we charge the person who pushed in the queue with manslaughter?? Come on. It's obvious it could have been any small innocent event that was the trigger. Remember, depression is often anger turned inward and the slightest and most innocent mis-step or remark from another can be enough to cause a tragedy....but we don't have a witch hunt every time someone commits suicide because they were offended in some way by something or someone.

Suicide is very rarely the result of one event. Certainly not one as minor as this call. Even people who experience great loss who commit suicide don't necessarily do it just because of that loss...it is most often a combination of factors.

Time to leave these DJs alone to get back to their lives IMO. You know, the DAD of the female DJ, who is not involved AND lives in a different state (some 1200kms away) has had to hire a 24/7 security guard for HIS family home due to death threats etc against HIM. WTF?? It's a thousand times worse than anything the Djs did. In fact, if we all had a good hard think, we could probably come up with some things we said or did that might have hurt someone at some point....and it may well have been enough to push someone over the edge....but we can't KNOW that. IMO many who are pointing the finger at the DJs are throwing stones in glass houses.

In a sense thats more of an advert for not pulling such a prank in the first place,as you don't know who's on the other end.

It certainly didn't help matters.

 

[skiny]

I understand but , if you can see the level of innocense here and take a step back to see that their intention was not to harm anyone but just light-hearted humour at the Queens expense. As we know the Queen has had the 'mick' taken from her on many occasions.

The accent was terrible, and I thought it would be obvious that it was not the Queen that called...so the first nurse didn't catch on and so she passed it on to the nurse that was on duty and it just happened to be someone who was on the 'edge' already, apparently.

It's a big event, Kate in hospital with her pregnancy and so it only would tell you that if the paparazzi cannot enter the hospital,then other means were available...

It was a very innocent prank, that no one would have thought that this would be the outcome.

I just don't think that what these young guys did was THAT bad.....but the outcome was.

I don't really care if people want to pull pranks on each other. I just think they picked the wrong place to do it and I don't think it's the DJ's making these decisions. I still think it should be illegal to call people and pretend you're someone else for the purpose of extracting personal information. If it was illegal and they were breaking the law, "I was only joking" wouldn't be an adequate defense.

 

[secret2]

I don't really care if people want to pull pranks on each other. I just think they picked the wrong place to do it and I don't think it's the DJ's making these decisions. I still think it should be illegal to call people and pretend you're someone else for the purpose of extracting personal information. If it was illegal and they were breaking the law, "I was only joking" wouldn't be an adequate defense.

Even if it were illegal, these guys are suffering so much..they are so young and under their manager's decisions as to what to say and do.

It's their job ..but having said that and keep in mind that they are young 'turks'...they thought it may be at least a few smiles to their listeners, and also maybe a big name for these guys and the radio show...

I also heard that they never thought that they would ever 'extract personal info', as they have said that they never thought that they would 'get through' to any personal info from internal staff.

The onus is on the operator at the hospital and they should have paid more attention to the caller and the obvious fake voice of the Queen....not that I am blaming the operator...just , well, a bad call...in more than one way.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

I don't really care if people want to pull pranks on each other. I just think they picked the wrong place to do it and I don't think it's the DJ's making these decisions. I still think it should be illegal to call people and pretend you're someone else for the purpose of extracting personal information. If it was illegal and they were breaking the law, "I was only joking" wouldn't be an adequate defense.

This is an excellent point. However you have to assume its still illegal to gain medical details under false pretenses in Australia.

Personally speaking,I know nothing of Australian law concerning medical details. Although I am sure 1,if not Nifty can enlighten us.

What I do know is prank calls in the UK are,as they are nuisance calls bordering on harassment,illegal.

 

[skiny]

This is an excellent point. However you have to assume its still illegal to gain medical details under false pretenses in Australia.

Personally speaking,I know nothing of Australian law concerning medical details. Although I am sure 1,if not Nifty can enlighten us.

What I do know is prank calls in the UK are,as they are nuisance calls bordering on harassment,illegal.

I've thought about going and looking it up but I'm just too lazy.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

I've thought about going and looking it up but I'm just too lazy.

I did have a quick search however couldn't really find anything.

 

[GrandMaster]

I don't really care if people want to pull pranks on each other. I just think they picked the wrong place to do it and I don't think it's the DJ's making these decisions. I still think it should be illegal to call people and pretend you're someone else for the purpose of extracting personal information. If it was illegal and they were breaking the law, "I was only joking" wouldn't be an adequate defense.

Using deception to obtain personal information you are not entitled to is illegal in the UK.

 

[skiny]

Using deception to obtain personal information you are not entitled to is illegal in the UK.

And Australia, I'm assuming?

 

[rockycatt]

Using deception to obtain personal information you are not entitled to is illegal in the UK.

please correct me if I'm wrong but here in the states ignorance of the law does not excuse is it the same were the radio station
calls home

what it says -->
Law in Australia

Like most developed countries in the world, Australia is largely free of the draconian laws you read about in ‘travel guides’ but it has laws and they must be obeyed.
The legal doctrine of ‘ignorance of the law is no excuse’ applies in Australia as it does elsewhere throughout the world. So here is a few of the big ones that (as an international student) it pays not to be ignorant of:

•You have to be over 18 to purchase alcohol and cigarettes.
•It is also illegal to consume alcohol and/or smoke in most public places. As a rule of thumb, smoke and drink at home, and only drink in a restaurant, pub, or bar that has liquor license.


Also:


•You cannot buy, sell or manufacture illicit drugs and selling and manufacturing illicit drugs has a custodial sentence attached to doing it. Australia is not Amsterdam, and illicit drugs are classified as everything from marijuana to heroin and cocaine and everything in-between.
•You cannot carry weapons of any kind and depending on the weapon could carry a custodial sentence.
•Violent acts in Australia also carry the possibility of a custodial sentence as well.

 

[Nifty29]

please correct me if I'm wrong but here in the states ignorance of the law does not excuse is it the same were the radio station
calls home

what it says -->
Law in Australia

Like most developed countries in the world, Australia is largely free of the draconian laws you read about in ‘travel guides’ but it has laws and they must be obeyed.
The legal doctrine of ‘ignorance of the law is no excuse’ applies in Australia as it does elsewhere throughout the world. So here is a few of the big ones that (as an international student) it pays not to be ignorant of:

•You have to be over 18 to purchase alcohol and cigarettes.
•It is also illegal to consume alcohol and/or smoke in most public places. As a rule of thumb, smoke and drink at home, and only drink in a restaurant, pub, or bar that has liquor license.


Also:


•You cannot buy, sell or manufacture illicit drugs and selling and manufacturing illicit drugs has a custodial sentence attached to doing it. Australia is not Amsterdam, and illicit drugs are classified as everything from marijuana to heroin and cocaine and everything in-between.
•You cannot carry weapons of any kind and depending on the weapon could carry a custodial sentence.
•Violent acts in Australia also carry the possibility of a custodial sentence as well.

How is any of this relevant?

The media here is reporting today that the DJs will not be prosecuted in either jurisdiction.

Intent would also be an important factor. Were the DJs actually attempting to obtain personal medical information about the princess? It would appear that the second nurse actually volunteered all the information without it being specifically asked for.....if anything, that nurse should be prosecuted.

 

[rockycatt]

How is any of this relevant?

The media here is reporting today that the DJs will not be prosecuted in either jurisdiction.

Intent would also be an important factor. Were the DJs actually attempting to obtain personal medical information about the princess? It would appear that the second nurse actually volunteered all the information without it being specifically asked for.....if anything, that nurse should be prosecuted.

law 101 = this uttering --_leading up to the damage from the onset --Uttering a forged instrument is the passing or making use of a forged writing or document with knowledge of its forged nature. Uttering is a crime usually charged in conjunction with a forgery. “Utter” means and includes using or dealing with, and attempting to use or deal with, and attempting to induce any person to use, deal with, or act upon, the thing in question. The uttering must have been done with intent to defraud. It is not necessary to prove an intent to defraud any particular person. Falsification of information on employment applications has also been held to involve uttering.


more variants==

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[rockycatt]

law 101 = this uttering --_leading up to the damage from the onset --Uttering a forged instrument is the passing or making use of a forged writing or document with knowledge of its forged nature. Uttering is a crime usually charged in conjunction with a forgery. “Utter” means and includes using or dealing with, and attempting to use or deal with, and attempting to induce any person to use, deal with, or act upon, the thing in question. The uttering must have been done with intent to defraud. It is not necessary to prove an intent to defraud any particular person. Falsification of information on employment applications has also been held to involve uttering.


more variants==

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oh and nifty for the new year lets try to discuss civilly with out getting personal ok

 

[Nifty29]

law 101 = this uttering --_leading up to the damage from the onset --Uttering a forged instrument is the passing or making use of a forged writing or document with knowledge of its forged nature. Uttering is a crime usually charged in conjunction with a forgery. “Utter” means and includes using or dealing with, and attempting to use or deal with, and attempting to induce any person to use, deal with, or act upon, the thing in question. The uttering must have been done with intent to defraud. It is not necessary to prove an intent to defraud any particular person. Falsification of information on employment applications has also been held to involve uttering.


more variants==

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oh and nifty for the new year lets try to discuss civilly with out getting personal ok

Can you please explain to me how uttering pertains to this situation, in your own words?

Also, please explain the intent to defraud section.

Lastly, could you please show where a "writing or document" was "passed or made use of" in this situation?

Who is getting personal? What does that have to do with this thread (even if I was, which I wasn't)?