Question When are the online stake limits coming in? Should have been introduced in September

[coolrunnings19]

I dont make deposit more then £100 pm on UK casino for last 3 years, I play on Crypto casino, all this limits are stupid, I can make deposit on 10 diffrent UK casinos £300pm and still spend £3000pm

I know as long as the casinos are owned by the same company you can still do a couple of thousand a month total, then when that finishes off to the arcades everyone will go as there will be no limits there!

 

[justdoit]

Most of the limits being mentioned above look like defaults. I have one site that has a £99000 limit too...

The "light touch" (their words) background checks will be done at £150 per month from the end of February, and I expect sites will then set a secondary limit from there... after which point people will be into the CDD/SoW merry-go-round.

Remember this calculation is done per site - so a problematic player can still do that on multiple sites and fly under the radar while losing a fortune... the alternative was the Single Customer View (SCV) project which is a mammoth invasion of privacy and was rightly shot down by the ICO.


And that's why the Bookies have been scaling back... they used their own loophole (multiple premises) to allow them to have 8, 12, 16 FOBTs... because it was by far their best earner. I'm a little surprised they haven't moved into the AGC space themselves...

Now the Adult Gaming Centre meta has come along and eaten that lunch - Admiral and Merkur seems to be expanding into every space they can find - long hours, ridiculous numbers of machines, and already plenty of stories of people exhibiting gambling problems that are being ignored.

This will predictably get worse if and when the 50/50 rule comes in... because all those "£100" FOBT-style terminals can be switched to £500 overnight. Unlike the bookies (4 machines) and casinos (20/80/150 machines, with no, 2:1 or 5:1 table ratio respectively), there are no limits... so AGC's could quickly become the new "super casinos" on the sly...

... and you wonder why the industry is aggressively pushing for £1000 jackpots and similar, there is your answer!

only Gov and UK will lose with new limits, more stupid rules more casinos will go out of UK market and more gamblers will go to crypto casinos,less tax for UK

 

[justdoit]

I know as long as the casinos are owned by the same company you can still do a couple of thousand a month total, then when that finishes off to the arcades everyone will go as there will be no limits there!

well not all casinos own by same company have same rules, like VS mr vegas megariches you can have £1000pm limits that is £3000pm from same company, and you dont have to do SOW

 

[jasonuk]

only Gov and UK will lose with new limits, more stupid rules more casinos will go out of UK market and more gamblers will go to crypto casinos,less tax for UK

Which would be a scary development - they can't go to Curacao anymore, so it'll be to any shithole jurisdiction that'll offer a worthless piece of paper and turn the other way.

And scammers will welcome them with open arms...

 

[justdoit]

Which would be a scary development - they can't go to Curacao anymore, so it'll be to any shithole jurisdiction that'll offer a worthless piece of paper and turn the other way.

And scammers will welcome them with open arms...

many experinace gamblers in this forum play on Curacao casinos and they dont get scam, for past 4 years and many diffrent casinos I never got refused withdraw, desperate gamblers will join no gamstop casinos and for sure they get scam

 

[jasonuk]

many experinace gamblers in this forum play on Curacao casinos and they dont get scam, for past 4 years and many diffrent casinos I never got refused withdraw, desperate gamblers will join no gamstop casinos and for sure they get scam

And the key part of that statement is past tense - the rules have changed, and the master licenses are no more (well almost, the final one expires in a few weeks).

If they continue to accept UK players, it's either unlicensed or it's under a worthless license like Costa Rica or Anjouan. Even if the casino has positive intentions (and many of them do), that is the lay of the land right now...

Case in point, one of the latest scams doing the rounds this week involved a "casino" offering a no deposit SUB, and you then "win big" on pragmatic slots. Naturally they then need to do the paperwork and ask you to deposit and KYC - which is how the scam proceeds with potential identity theft and draining bank accounts, under the time crunch of a massive win that isn't real.

 

[justdoit]

And the key part of that statement is past tense - the rules have changed, and the master licenses are no more (well almost, the final one expires in a few weeks).

If they continue to accept UK players, it's either unlicensed or it's under a worthless license like Costa Rica or Anjouan. Even if the casino has positive intentions (and many of them do), that is the lay of the land right now...

Case in point, one of the latest scams doing the rounds this week involved a "casino" offering a no deposit SUB, and you then "win big" on pragmatic slots. Naturally they then need to do the paperwork and ask you to deposit and KYC - which is how the scam proceeds with potential identity theft and draining bank accounts, under the time crunch of a massive win that isn't real.

4 years ago Curacao was worthless license,not sure if you gamble at all? but when gambler trust one casinos they dont care what licance they have

 

[satchnz]

The reoccurring discussion that local regulated casinos are crap in terms of RTP and KYC/SOW vs offshore crypto casinos being shitholes is getting quite tedious now.

You have three choices.
1) accept local market conditions and play on
2) venture offshore and accept the associated risks [and benefits]
3) stop gambling and move on

Personally I’ve selected option 2. I’ve not yet had any issues, but I do my homework first. I also make sure my exposure is low by playing low stakes and avoiding jackpot games etc. You can comfortably play offshore if you are smart about it.

The problem gambling aspect of this discussion is not lost on me, but (sadly in some cases) there are always ways around every in this world.

 

[jasonuk]

4 years ago Curacao was worthless license,not sure if you gamble at all? but when gambler trust one casinos they dont care what licance they have

Nope, I don't gamble at all... the hundreds of posts I've researched and made about gambling regulations and licensing were a complete figment of my imagination.

Given how you've been cheerleading for BC.game in recent months and the story that is playing out there... the ever-growing list of players not being paid, the bankruptcy proceedings, the potential loss of Curacao license (which might be a first for the CGCB?). The irony isn't lost on me...

The reoccurring discussion that local regulated casinos are crap in terms of RTP and KYC/SOW vs offshore crypto casinos being shitholes is getting quite tedious now.

That's quite a polarised summary of the curve, but you do you... Given the crossroads the industry is currently at, this one is going to run for a few years yet...

When new jurisdictions like Costa Rica and Anjouan are actively promoting the lack of checks and audits... that "trust" is going to break down pretty quickly and players need to be incredibly careful - just like with sites that are transitioning from the grey market to the black market while still based in Curacao. There was a reason early crypto offerings were "provably fair", it's a pity that side of things has been side-lined in recent years.

I agree with your comment on the three choices though - but for players to make an informed decision then that information needs to be available - and increasingly it isn't... further muddied by the volume of affiliates who will promote misinformation and/or actively participate in fraud.

The CGCB waters are untested at the moment, if they start taking action against the rogue outfits like BC.game, then there is hope that the jurisdiction will improve - which would be better for players and genuine operators alike.

 

[satchnz]

That's quite a polarised summary of the curve, but you do you...

If you boil all of these discussions down then that’s what you consistently get. And yes, I will always do me.

 

[justdoit]

Nope, I don't gamble at all... the hundreds of posts I've researched and made about gambling regulations and licensing were a complete figment of my imagination.

Given how you've been cheerleading for BC.game in recent months and the story that is playing out there... the ever-growing list of players not being paid, the bankruptcy proceedings, the potential loss of Curacao license (which might be a first for the CGCB?). The irony isn't lost on me...


That's quite a polarised summary of the curve, but you do you... Given the crossroads the industry is currently at, this one is going to run for a few years yet...

When new jurisdictions like Costa Rica and Anjouan are actively promoting the lack of checks and audits... that "trust" is going to break down pretty quickly and players need to be incredibly careful - just like with sites that are transitioning from the grey market to the black market while still based in Curacao. There was a reason early crypto offerings were "provably fair", it's a pity that side of things has been side-lined in recent years.

I agree with you comment on the three choices though - but for players to make an informed decision then that information needs to be available - and increasingly it isn't... further muddied by the volume of affiliates who will promote misinformation and/or actively participate in fraud.

The CGCB waters are untested at the moment, if they start taking action against the rogue outfits like BC.game, then there is hope that the jurisdiction will improve - which would be better for players and genuine operators alike.

your post mean nothing if you dont gambel, you can researched all day long, the researche you find could be from non gamblers, so to many expert gamblers they dont take you serious, regards to BC what players they did not get paid? streamers they get offer deals? gamblers they spame and open 100s of accounts? coz I played in BC for 4 years never ever had problem, I also played on their Costa Rica casino many times, you cant tell gamblers they gambel all their lifes what casino is good or bad, dont forget BC offer bonus to streamers they need to wager and they have set bet, if they bet more then T/C then they lose money,

 

[mulven]

the potential loss of Curacao license (which might be a first for the CGCB?).

Rabidi was one of the first licences handed out in April, almost immediately got revoked due to their bankruptcy. So it will be the second revocation.

your post mean nothing if you dont gambel, you can researched all day long, the researche you find could be from non gamblers,

I don't want to speak for Jason but his first sentence was obvious sarcasm. He has lots of experience playing and that helps him be probably the most knowledgeable and helpful user of this forum.

 

[coolrunnings19]

well not all casinos own by same company have same rules, like VS mr vegas megariches you can have £1000pm limits that is £3000pm from same company, and you dont have to do SOW

don't have to do SOW yet, but next year that will change. They will be doing background checks anyway

 

[jasonuk]

don't have to do SOW yet, but next year that will change. They will be doing background checks anyway

The light-touch background checks might mean less CDD/SOW checks... time will tell what happens.

For example: if a player knows their internal limit, it gives clarity but it may encourage bad side effects (e.g. players increase their existing deposit limits towards the internal limit, particularly if that limit is significantly higher).

I don't want to speak for Jason but his first sentence was obvious sarcasm. He has lots of experience playing and that helps him be probably the most knowledgeable and helpful user of this forum.

Indeed, I thought obvious sarcasm was obvious... but I guess not.

It's funny because those that don't gamble can still give plenty of insight into the industry... and in some cases with better clarity than those of us who do.

 

[satchnz]

It's funny because those that don't gamble can still give plenty of insight into the industry... and in some cases with better clarity than those of us who do.

I don’t disagree with you here but I feel this is the exact reason that our UKGC is making some crazy decisions (2.5s between spins, no auto spins, limiting bet sizes without other mechanisms to support their goal). It reeks of no real world gambling experience. None of these impact my play at all because I don’t use auto spins, only ever bet 0.20-0.30 max, and don’t like quick/turbo spins - I prefer to savour my play . But I can recognise how these things are a negative to other in control gamblers.

 

[jasonuk]

I don’t disagree with you here but I feel this is the exact reason that our UKGC is making some crazy decisions (2.5s between spins, no auto spins, limiting bet sizes without other mechanisms to support their goal). It reeks of no real world gambling experience. None of these impact my play at all because I don’t use auto spins, only ever bet 0.20-0.30 max, and don’t like quick/turbo spins - I prefer to savour my play . But I can recognise how these things are a negative to other in control gamblers.

I nearly added "as long as they understand that they know what they know, and know what they don't know" to the end of my previous post, but left it out - you've covered it anyway.

Some of them are clearly well-intentioned (e.g. the 2.5s spin speed) but slight differences in the requirement would have made things so much easier. It probably caused more issues for those that weren't supposed to be impacted (who ended up breaking their slots to shoehorn the requirement in) than those that were (who just flipped a switch and turned off super-mega-hyper-turbo spins).

Loss of auto-play was the biggest one for me, I used autoplay to keep track of my play (in terms of session stats - played, wagered, bonuses etc) and also allowed me to enjoy videos alongside it (which admittedly was one of the things they explicitly wanted to ban - the "passive" gambling session). Still no "max bet" ban either... at least on the plus side a misclick will only cost £5 from next year!

 

[coolrunnings19]

I nearly added "as long as they understand that they know what they know, and know what they don't know" to the end of my previous post, but left it out - you've covered it anyway.

Some of them are clearly well-intentioned (e.g. the 2.5s spin speed) but slight differences in the requirement would have made things so much easier. It probably caused more issues for those that weren't supposed to be impacted (who ended up breaking their slots to shoehorn the requirement in) than those that were (who just flipped a switch and turned off super-mega-hyper-turbo spins).

Loss of auto-play was the biggest one for me, I used autoplay to keep track of my play (in terms of session stats - played, wagered, bonuses etc) and also allowed me to enjoy videos alongside it (which admittedly was one of the things they explicitly wanted to ban - the "passive" gambling session). Still no "max bet" ban either... at least on the plus side a misclick will only cost £5 from next year!

Yes I did a misclick one on an inspired game, 60 pounds for one spin! At least from April (or maybe earlier it will be just £5). Some inspired games will be £4 max bet like gold cash free spins as they don't have 5 pound spins!

 

[mulven]

And the key part of that statement is past tense - the rules have changed, and the master licenses are no more (well almost, the final one expires in a few weeks).

Apparently there was a fifth master licensee I didn't know about till today (4627/RNA or The Elite Turf Club N.V.). As with all things Curacao, these guys now have an active licence with the GCB.

Owned by Monarch Content Management, who are in turn owned by Stronach Group (owners of many US race tracks including gulfstream park and big players in horse tote betting), it provides high-speed services to around 16-20 CAW teams (Computer-Assisted Wagering, sometimes called CRW). Apparently it's been around since the 90s.

Elite Turf teams account for either 10 or 20% (can't remember what I read) of US horse betting apparently. They have rebates and agreements with tracks (some of which are owned by their parent company) and are able to get the automated bets in at the last second thanks to the high speed high bandwidth setup they have, reminds me of stock market stuff.

Surprised I never knew there were five master licensees but I guess unless you look for certain things you wouldn't know since they obviously don't sub-licence.

 

[justdoit]

I nearly added "as long as they understand that they know what they know, and know what they don't know" to the end of my previous post, but left it out - you've covered it anyway.

Some of them are clearly well-intentioned (e.g. the 2.5s spin speed) but slight differences in the requirement would have made things so much easier. It probably caused more issues for those that weren't supposed to be impacted (who ended up breaking their slots to shoehorn the requirement in) than those that were (who just flipped a switch and turned off super-mega-hyper-turbo spins).

Loss of auto-play was the biggest one for me, I used autoplay to keep track of my play (in terms of session stats - played, wagered, bonuses etc) and also allowed me to enjoy videos alongside it (which admittedly was one of the things they explicitly wanted to ban - the "passive" gambling session). Still no "max bet" ban either... at least on the plus side a misclick will only cost £5 from next year!

m8 if gambler want to gambel nothing will stop the gambler, so all this BS rules they making it mean nothing to gamblers

 

[coolrunnings19]

m8 if gambler want to gambel nothing will stop the gambler, so all this BS rules they making it mean nothing to gamblers

that's true, there is always non gamstop casinos that players can risk at having a go on. I think it will mean the land based venues will be busier from next year. Online will slowly fade away for slot players

 

[satchnz]

So I decided to make a deposit to Bet365 this weekend. It’s the first non crypto deposit I’ve made in some time.

Putting aside that my deposit was gobbled in record time, I went to play a couple of Hacksaws and saw that the minimum bet for all Hacksaws (the ones I checked) was £2.00. I put it down to a temporary error but just checked today and they’re still set to a £2 minimum bet.

Perhaps someone there has misunderstood the upcoming changes lol.

 

[coolrunnings19]

So I decided to make a deposit to Bet365 this weekend. It’s the first non crypto deposit I’ve made in some time.

Putting aside that my deposit was gobbled in record time, I went to play a couple of Hacksaws and saw that the minimum bet for all Hacksaws (the ones I checked) was £2.00. I put it down to a temporary error but just checked today and they’re still set to a £2 minimum bet.

Perhaps someone there has misunderstood the upcoming changes lol.

Maybe trying to make as much money as they can before all the caps come in in a few months time

 

[dunover]

Look, an easy synopsis of the whole sitaution is this:

Does the gambling business your are patronising have any jeopardy in your particular location? By that I mean business office, licensing, regulation or assets?

If no to most or all of these points, then you are at risk. All the promises the casino makes are whimsical, all decisions potentially arbitrary.

A good premise to use is this:

If I played and won a jackpot or substantial sum of say six-figures plus, would I at any time worry about being paid? If the answer is 'yes' then you shouldn't be playing there.

 

[satchnz]

A good premise to use is this:

If I played and won a jackpot or substantial sum of say six-figures plus, would I at any time worry about being paid? If the answer is 'yes' then you shouldn't be playing there.

This is a good way to look at it. For me personally, I’m never going to win six figures on my 0.20 bets, and I avoid any progressive jackpot games when playing offshore.