What casinos usually mean when they say...

[KasinoKing]

Thank you for you replies

If there are more examples / cases when casinos used terms described in the OP - please, share it with us.

The bottom line is, if the casino accepts the bet, the casino should ALWAYS pay the player.
This is the 21st century for Christs sake! Programmers can make computers do ANYTHING - so surely it's not rocket science to configure the software to simply not allow any bet which the casino considers to be Bonus Abuse, Unusual Pattern, Minimal Risk or Advantage Play?

It hard to believe that in this day and age, we even have the need to still be discussing these topics.

KK

 

[klara1968]

SO...

All of us think the same things about the "sophisticated" abuse rules.YET again,all of us will keep on playing those casinos...

 

[Nifty29]

The bottom line is, if the casino accepts the bet, the casino should ALWAYS pay the player.
This is the 21st century for Christs sake! Programmers can make computers do ANYTHING - so surely it's not rocket science to configure the software to simply not allow any bet which the casino considers to be Bonus Abuse, Unusual Pattern, Minimal Risk or Advantage Play?

It hard to believe that in this day and age, we even have the need to still be discussing these topics.

KK

The problem is that, unless the software provider decides it is necessary, and they won't because it doesn't affect their revenue, the individual operators would have to pay for any specific customizations.....and I would assume that their licence doesn't allow them to do it themselves, so the provider would probably charge exorbitant fees to do it.

At the end of the day, anything that costs the casino money has to be justified by some kind of gain or at least offset to be revenue neutral. It is far more cost effective to state any limitations in their terms and conditions, and I don't see a problem with that as long as those terms are clearly stated.

We are all adults and we must take some responsibility for following the rules, just like we do in real life. It's a little like a speeding motorist going to court and using "I only exceeded the speed limit because the car allowed me to"....and you can guess how far they would get. If 99% of players can read and abide by the rules, then the other 1% can as well. We have to be reasonable and accept the consequences when we are careless, ignorant, and especially when we are trying to sneak around the rules.

It is very easy for an operator to spot a genuine error, and the casinos I frequent have bent the rules for such players in the past, which is what makes them so good. However, there is, and must be, a limit at which players have to carry their own can.

 

[Nate]

The problem is that, unless the software provider decides it is necessary, and they won't because it doesn't affect their revenue, the individual operators would have to pay for any specific customizations.....and I would assume that their licence doesn't allow them to do it themselves, so the provider would probably charge exorbitant fees to do it.

You're on the money in saying this. I have personal experience in using a product where the Software is 'As is' - Any requests for enhancements that are over and above the capabilities of the standard product must be put through development. There are costs involved in this.

The only time a software provider will provide such enhancements is when a product exhibits Security flaws which could ultimately lead to a loss of revenue by the licensee.

We do not know the extent of programming that must take place in order to add this enhancement. Only the software providers themselves will know this. There is a huge possibility that these functions are not implemented due to the predatory nature of some lesser outfits, however, we will never be in a position to deny or confirm the ease of which they could be implemented.

Nate

 

[vinylweatherman]

The problem is that, unless the software provider decides it is necessary, and they won't because it doesn't affect their revenue, the individual operators would have to pay for any specific customizations.....and I would assume that their licence doesn't allow them to do it themselves, so the provider would probably charge exorbitant fees to do it.

At the end of the day, anything that costs the casino money has to be justified by some kind of gain or at least offset to be revenue neutral. It is far more cost effective to state any limitations in their terms and conditions, and I don't see a problem with that as long as those terms are clearly stated.

We are all adults and we must take some responsibility for following the rules, just like we do in real life. It's a little like a speeding motorist going to court and using "I only exceeded the speed limit because the car allowed me to"....and you can guess how far they would get. If 99% of players can read and abide by the rules, then the other 1% can as well. We have to be reasonable and accept the consequences when we are careless, ignorant, and especially when we are trying to sneak around the rules.

It is very easy for an operator to spot a genuine error, and the casinos I frequent have bent the rules for such players in the past, which is what makes them so good. However, there is, and must be, a limit at which players have to carry their own can.

The problem is also one of lack of effective regulation. If regulation was tighter, protecting players to the same level they would be protected with any other consumer product, then predatory terms coupled by failure to upgrade the software to ensure players are protected from making mistakes as far as is reasonably possible would start getting overturned by the regulators, and even the courts. This WILL start costing licensees money because not only do they end up paying out after all, they suffer additional costs for having to be dragged before the regulator or the courts. It wouldn't protect players like Markus who use technology to bypass such restrictions, and then argue "the server let me do it". In the motorist case, things are a little different. They can defend a charge of speeding on the grounds that the limit signs were not more or less rammed down their throat as they drove into the zone. Overgrown trees obscuring limit signs means the limit can't be enforced, and the council is told they should have ensured they were clearer. However, in the case of a lorry, where the vehicle itself is fitted with a speed govenor to prevent the driver from going over the limit, removal of this govenor and then arguing that either "the lorry let me do it" or "the sign was obscured" will NOT get them off.
In the case of lorry drivers, the authorities have decided NOT to rely on the drivers reading and complying with the "terms and conditions", which in this case are the rules of the road, along with additional laws covering speeds and duration of driving. Compliance with the rules for lorry drivers is so serious an issue that the law is not enough, the vehicles themselves have to be fitted with governors to physically prevent the vehicle from going over it's limit of 55 or 60 mph, and the tachograph MUST be fitted and working at all times to prove the driver has obeyed the laws.

Where players stand to lose sums that could exceed 10K, even 100K in rare cases, surely this is also "serious enough" to warrant something other than relying on terms and conditions. Currently, it is ONLY "serious" for the PLAYER, the casino can never lose from a player making mistakes with the terms, as they can confiscate the winnings with little fear of the player being able to force them to pay.

If regulation reached the stage where casino terms and conditions were held to the standards of "consumer contract law" in the players' own country, I expect there would be a rapid move towards terms being enforced via the software, with players simply not being able to make an invalid bet, and having to ask CS why a certain bet is being rejected by the server, at which point CS will direct them to the terms they failed to read in the first place, with no harm done to either party.

 

[pmutts]

I told myself if I challenge Nifty29 it l must be be truly worth it.

The problem is that, unless the software provider decides it is necessary, and they won't because it doesn't affect their revenue, the individual operators would have to pay for any specific customizations.....and I would assume that their licence doesn't allow them to do it themselves, so the provider would probably charge exorbitant fees to do it.

At the end of the day, anything that costs the casino money has to be justified by some kind of gain or at least offset to be revenue neutral. It is far more cost effective to state any limitations in their terms and conditions, and I don't see a problem with that as long as those terms are clearly stated.

We are all adults and we must take some responsibility for following the rules, just like we do in real life. It's a little like a speeding motorist going to court and using "I only exceeded the speed limit because the car allowed me to"....and you can guess how far they would get. If 99% of players can read and abide by the rules, then the other 1% can as well. We have to be reasonable and accept the consequences when we are careless, ignorant, and especially when we are trying to sneak around the rules.

It is very easy for an operator to spot a genuine error, and the casinos I frequent have bent the rules for such players in the past, which is what makes them so good. However, there is, and must be, a limit at which players have to carry their own can.

First of all, I want to compliment you for your often entertaining albeit argumentative posts and threads. I have read many and it is admittedly often fun to watch you get the goat of other posters--many of which are longtime senior members on the site.

Forums are meant for people to express opinions and everyone is definitely entitled to their own--including you.

What I don't understand is why you seem to consistently side with the casinos in matters such as this. So what if they have to pay a little more to keep the patron from screwing themselves out of a win. Surely you do not honestly believe that their reasons for having unwieldy T&Cs posted deep within their site and often hard to find are done this way for any other reason than to put their players on a thin sheet of ice where they can fall through and drown, or in this case get screwed out of a possible win.

Personally, I ALWAYS read Terms. If they are not clear I will not deposit. Everyone should in a perfect world. We are human and that goes for everyone on this site. I have screwed myself more than once playing under contradictory and/or ambiguous Terms and Conditions.

KK is right. This is my opinion. If they accept the wager they should pay the player. Enzo and several other posters have made such incredibly clever postings in this thread but of course I was waiting to get to the NIFTY29 post of the same old song and dance--and sure enough you came through--completely predictable with the same old song and dance.

You ARE entitled to your opinion. Each of us is. You frequently make valid points but in this case, IMO you miss the mark completely.

This will not become a debate and I will not directly rebut any reply you may wish to hurl my way. My time is too valuable for that. I guess this in some way initiates me into the forums.

To pretty much everyone else in this thread, thanks for you incredibly clever and humorous replies and postings. I cannot top what is has already been said. EXCELLENT THREAD!

 

[immortality]

Very Well put pmutts, I also agree with kk,
I'm glad I don't play at casinos with these t&c's, nearly did start playing but read the t&c's first, saw minimal risk wagering and thought,what, so I have to deposit and bet higher amounts, that halted that.

 

[IanO]

Sorry Mr Mutts, but whatever you may think of Nify's writing style he has an excellent point here. Perhaps if you knew the full cost and logistical nightmare that can be involved in something like this you'd be more forgiving. Some people seem to think that conversation would go something like this:

Casino: ''Hi. Can you please adjust the software you provide so that it automatically blocks people from making certain bets under certain conditions?'
Software provider: ''Sure. No problem... just let us know the exact rules you want applied and we'll sort it. That will be $50 please''
Casino: ''Great, and when will that be ready?''
Software provior: ''How's tomorrow afternoon for you?''

The reality is a lot more like this:

Casino:''Hi. Can you please adjust the software so that it blocks people from making certain bets under certain conditions?'
Software provider: ''Hmmm... sounds tricky. When did you want this by?''
Casino:''Tomorrow afternoon?''
Software provider:''I was thinking more like October 2013. Oh... and the cost of something like that is about $10,000.
Casino:''Wow... but what about the 10K I already paid you for other work this month?'
Software provider:''Oh yeah... about that... all that stuff you wanted that will make your site more profitable and secure.... they will have to go on hold while we look after this new expensive request for you''
Casino: ''and if our bonus rules change how quickly can you keep up and make sure the new rules are applied in the back end?''
Software provider: ''Ohhh, no... you can never change your rules or bonus offerings after this... too complicated and it will cost another 10K to re-set the 'rules' in the back end...''
....pause...
Casino manager: ''And how much will it cost to just update out terms and conditions instead?
Software provider: ''Thats free and instant''

If you were the casino Manager, what would you do... honestly?

Getting back to the definitions, I'd like to add one for 'bonus abusers' and 'advantage players' : ''The reason some casinos t's and c's are 20 pages long''

 

[pmutts]

Then perhaps the casinos should simply KISS

• K-eep
• I-t
• S-imple
• S-tupid

BTW, I have no problem at all with Nifty29's writing style. I find it entertaining. Every good forum needs their chief antagonist. Additionally, Nifty29 frequently makes valid points and I wholeheartedly admit that.

I guess it is the broken record: "We are all adults, etc. etc. etc." I said I would not rebut and I will not address this again. I see your point and I see his. Technically I'm not rebutting though because Nifty29 did not make the post.

 

[SlotMonster]

Excellent post, IanO!

In our company even slight improvement takes at least 3 (three) weeks to be discussed, developed, tested and released.

More complicated features require more time.

We can do hotfixes, but very rare, and even it's REALLY important.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Excellent post, IanO!

In our company even slight improvement takes at least 3 (three) weeks to be discussed, developed, tested and released.

More complicated features require more time.

We can do hotfixes, but very rare, and even it's REALLY important.

It's unwise to rush these things through, but casino software is NOT static, new features are being added all the time. There has been PLENTY of time to develop software restraints that prevent players from making invalid bets, and this development should have been running alongside all the other developments of new features, and brought in when ready. The max bet rule has been around for YEARS, and most softwares have since had MAJOR redevelopments, which would have provided opportunities to bring in such features.

It turns out their failure to do so has not only screwed players over, but allowed the likes of Markus to develop alternate client software that has bypassed the client, and managed to slip completely invalid bets past the server's security that did NOT actually break the bonus rules, but instead broke the game rules, something the casinos were not looking for as they believed these rules were properly policed by the software.

There have even been calls from players for such features to be added to the development plans, yet instead software developers have been adding features players do not want, and removing popular features that many players had been using.

 

[Seventh777]

Now here`s an idea, instead of having these goddam entrapment type T&C`s, remove the max bet rule (just like any casinos worth their salt do).

In the meantime a test, open up any MGS casino in practise play mode give yourself a balance of £100 (100% deposit on £50) and play Mermaids Millions at £75 a spin or TSII on £15 a spin, see how we do in grinding down that imaginary £1500 w/r.

 

[LaHutti]

Sorry Mr Mutts, but whatever you may think of Nify's writing style he has an excellent point here. Perhaps if you knew the full cost and logistical nightmare that can be involved in something like this you'd be more forgiving. Some people seem to think that conversation would go something like this:

Casino: ''Hi. Can you please adjust the software you provide so that it automatically blocks people from making certain bets under certain conditions?'
Software provider: ''Sure. No problem... just let us know the exact rules you want applied and we'll sort it. That will be $50 please''
Casino: ''Great, and when will that be ready?''
Software provior: ''How's tomorrow afternoon for you?''

The reality is a lot more like this:

Casino:''Hi. Can you please adjust the software so that it blocks people from making certain bets under certain conditions?'
Software provider: ''Hmmm... sounds tricky. When did you want this by?''
Casino:''Tomorrow afternoon?''
Software provider:''I was thinking more like October 2013. Oh... and the cost of something like that is about $10,000.
Casino:''Wow... but what about the 10K I already paid you for other work this month?'
Software provider:''Oh yeah... about that... all that stuff you wanted that will make your site more profitable and secure.... they will have to go on hold while we look after this new expensive request for you''
Casino: ''and if our bonus rules change how quickly can you keep up and make sure the new rules are applied in the back end?''
Software provider: ''Ohhh, no... you can never change your rules or bonus offerings after this... too complicated and it will cost another 10K to re-set the 'rules' in the back end...''
....pause...
Casino manager: ''And how much will it cost to just update out terms and conditions instead?
Software provider: ''Thats free and instant''

If you were the casino Manager, what would you do... honestly?

Getting back to the definitions, I'd like to add one for 'bonus abusers' and 'advantage players' : ''The reason some casinos t's and c's are 20 pages long''

Based on this thread "What casinos usually mean when they say...", if this casino you're referring to, got a manager who knew math, they could save a TON of money, couldn't they ?

 

[vinylweatherman]

What about the "advantage casino manager"?

They all say advantage players are killing the experience for others, but what about casinos that deliberately twist the truth in order to mislead non advantage players into depositing.

What about those "1500 free, play for 1 hour and keep all your winnings".

When you read the terms, you don't just find "small print", but a redefinition of the English language. Everybody thinks they know what the word "all" means, until that is they read the terms for this offer and find that "all" has been redefined to mean "some".

It isn't confined the words either, the meaning of the number "40" was redefined by Sun Palace, and even the CS didn't know whether 40=80 or 40=100. If they meant 80 or 100, why not write 80 or 100 in their communications.

They don't like it when PLAYERS try to change the definitions of words to improve their chances, like the long arguments over the meaning of the words "student", "enrolled", "college" and "university" at Club World.

I feel that one player's redefinition to argue that he was not a student because he was still at "high school", which was neither a college or university is no less valid than BelleRock's argument that "keep all your winnings" means "keep the first £100 of your winnings, but only if you deposit and play a further £5000 on the slots".

What advantage players get up to in order to increase their chances of winning is no different from what casinos get up to in order to increase their chances of winning through manipulating players that would not deposit if they were told the plain truth into depositing on a heavily "spun" version of the truth.

 

[TheLastCylon]

Any Casinos Without T&C?

After reading through this, are there any casinos without terms and conditions? It seems that it shouldn't be hard to create a game, system, and set of probabilities that does not require restrictions aside from the ones that everyone expects.

For example, if I go to a casino, there are expected rules. Namely, no one under 21 on the gambling floor. And this is on a sign. But if I walk up to a slot, the rules are exactly as expected. I put money in the machine and hope that more money comes out. I don't expect to be told that winning on my first spin is weird, so they're not going to give me my money.

That's a problem I think people are having. They expect certain tacit rules to apply. And I think that this makes perfect sense! We all know what gambling is and know how it should at least theoretically work.

 

[Jasminebed]

I'm not all that sure that it requires weeks to implement bet restrictions. I know I have read threads here about both playtech and RTG casinos where players have had their bet limits adjusted (both upwards and downwards), sometimes as abruptly after being disconnected by an administrator. If it can be done on the fly like this for some players, I'm sure it could be either automated or have to contact CS for a bonus so it could be implemented manually if the casino desired.

I think it's pretty clear that betting both red and black at the same time on roulette is considered minimal risk wagering. But isn't this the exact same as betting half that amount on red for twice as many spins, at least over the long haul? Many softwares don't allow for spinning without betting, and some players that employ a "system" wait for "the right time" to bet. I often see this at my local B&Ms, especially on the video terminals associated with a live table. The casino even thoughtfully provides cards to record the results for their system players.

Laying off on the craps tables to avoid the minimum bet sizes should probably be avoided as well.

Many MG casinos don't allow players to play the Multispin slots while playing with a bonus, or if allowed, it doesn't count towards wagering. I'm just waiting for a bonus complaint to surface over the new and heavily promoted Break Da Bank again to crop up.

 

[Jasminebed]

After reading through this, are there any casinos without terms and conditions? It seems that it shouldn't be hard to create a game, system, and set of probabilities that does not require restrictions aside from the ones that everyone expects.

For example, if I go to a casino, there are expected rules. Namely, no one under 21 on the gambling floor. And this is on a sign. But if I walk up to a slot, the rules are exactly as expected. I put money in the machine and hope that more money comes out. I don't expect to be told that winning on my first spin is weird, so they're not going to give me my money.

That's a problem I think people are having. They expect certain tacit rules to apply. And I think that this makes perfect sense! We all know what gambling is and know how it should at least theoretically work.

3Dice has implemented bet size restrictions into the software, and while different games are weighted differently, there is no game play that will void winnings. 3Dice doesn't offer a lot of bonuses, and with the exception of the SUB, they are largely based on loyalty level, with higher levels receiving more generous bonuses and terms.

Free Tournament wins carry a wagering of 10x, and if you are a VIP player (minimum of $50 deposited monthly), there's normally at least one tournament every 75 minutes, and two freerolls for any player available per day. The Buy-In tourney wins carry no WR.

 

[LaHutti]

3Dice has implemented bet size restrictions into the software, and while different games are weighted differently, there is no game play that will void winnings. 3Dice doesn't offer a lot of bonuses, and with the exception of the SUB, they are largely based on loyalty level, with higher levels receiving more generous bonuses and terms.

Free Tournament wins carry a wagering of 10x, and if you are a VIP player (minimum of $50 deposited monthly), there's normally at least one tournament every 75 minutes, and two freerolls for any player available per day. The Buy-In tourney wins carry no WR.

That's excactly right. You can love or hate the games in 3Dice, but there is NO bullcrap.
If you win, you get paid, and that's the end of story.
Enzo manager of 3Dice, hit the nail on the head, in his previous post in this thread, and 3Dice in fact have no bullcrap terms.
A lot of casinos, and casino managers could learn a LOT from 3Dice, and Enzo, regarding this.

 

[nisosbar]

After reading through this, are there any casinos without terms and conditions? It seems that it shouldn't be hard to create a game, system, and set of probabilities that does not require restrictions aside from the ones that everyone expects.

For example, if I go to a casino, there are expected rules. Namely, no one under 21 on the gambling floor. And this is on a sign. But if I walk up to a slot, the rules are exactly as expected. I put money in the machine and hope that more money comes out. I don't expect to be told that winning on my first spin is weird, so they're not going to give me my money.

That's a problem I think people are having. They expect certain tacit rules to apply. And I think that this makes perfect sense! We all know what gambling is and know how it should at least theoretically work.

I believe ALL casinos apply terms and conditions to their bonuses.

However, the least restrictive bonuses of all seem to be the ones at 3Dice. They aren't as frequent as at other casinos, nor are they super massive '200, 300, 500 900%!!!', but the restrictions are minimal, and the WR is anything from NONE up to 10x, and I don't think I've ever seen a bonus with a larger WR than 10x.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'm not all that sure that it requires weeks to implement bet restrictions. I know I have read threads here about both playtech and RTG casinos where players have had their bet limits adjusted (both upwards and downwards), sometimes as abruptly after being disconnected by an administrator. If it can be done on the fly like this for some players, I'm sure it could be either automated or have to contact CS for a bonus so it could be implemented manually if the casino desired.

I think it's pretty clear that betting both red and black at the same time on roulette is considered minimal risk wagering. But isn't this the exact same as betting half that amount on red for twice as many spins, at least over the long haul? Many softwares don't allow for spinning without betting, and some players that employ a "system" wait for "the right time" to bet. I often see this at my local B&Ms, especially on the video terminals associated with a live table. The casino even thoughtfully provides cards to record the results for their system players.

Laying off on the craps tables to avoid the minimum bet sizes should probably be avoided as well.

Many MG casinos don't allow players to play the Multispin slots while playing with a bonus, or if allowed, it doesn't count towards wagering. I'm just waiting for a bonus complaint to surface over the new and heavily promoted Break Da Bank again to crop up.

I have spotted this recently, but WHY

MGS has been enhanced to allow players to play up to 5 games at once, which is the same thing as the multispin slots, but just displayed differently.

Multispin "Double Magic" is a banned game, but I can open 5 windows, and play "Double magic" and 4 clones all at once - it's the same thing. I could even play all the variants of "Mega Moolah" at once using tabs or windows, yet a multispin version would be a banned game even where play on progressives is allowed.

The problem here is that slots players now also have to go through the fine print looking for banned slots under their "All Slots" bonus. It used to be only advantage players that had to check carefully to see whether their non-slot strategies were allowed.

 

[GrandMaster]

Sorry Mr Mutts, but whatever you may think of Nify's writing style he has an excellent point here. Perhaps if you knew the full cost and logistical nightmare that can be involved in something like this you'd be more forgiving. Some people seem to think that conversation would go something like this:

Casino: ''Hi. Can you please adjust the software you provide so that it automatically blocks people from making certain bets under certain conditions?'
Software provider: ''Sure. No problem... just let us know the exact rules you want applied and we'll sort it. That will be $50 please''
Casino: ''Great, and when will that be ready?''
Software provior: ''How's tomorrow afternoon for you?''

The reality is a lot more like this:

Casino:''Hi. Can you please adjust the software so that it blocks people from making certain bets under certain conditions?'
Software provider: ''Hmmm... sounds tricky. When did you want this by?''
Casino:''Tomorrow afternoon?''
Software provider:''I was thinking more like October 2013. Oh... and the cost of something like that is about $10,000.
Casino:''Wow... but what about the 10K I already paid you for other work this month?'
Software provider:''Oh yeah... about that... all that stuff you wanted that will make your site more profitable and secure.... they will have to go on hold while we look after this new expensive request for you''
Casino: ''and if our bonus rules change how quickly can you keep up and make sure the new rules are applied in the back end?''
Software provider: ''Ohhh, no... you can never change your rules or bonus offerings after this... too complicated and it will cost another 10K to re-set the 'rules' in the back end...''
....pause...
Casino manager: ''And how much will it cost to just update out terms and conditions instead?
Software provider: ''Thats free and instant''

If you were the casino Manager, what would you do... honestly?

Getting back to the definitions, I'd like to add one for 'bonus abusers' and 'advantage players' : ''The reason some casinos t's and c's are 20 pages long''

I don't think that implementing bet limits would be more difficult than to churn out yet another video slot.

T&C are not written by the software provider, but by the casino and its lawyers (or in some cases, simply copied from another casino's website ). The more convoluted the T&C, the more staff time it will take to check that the players comply and the more staff time will have to be devoted to complaints, so there are costs there as well.

 

[KasinoKing]

The reality is a lot more like this:

Casino:''Hi. Can you please adjust the software so that it blocks people from making certain bets under certain conditions?'
Software provider: ''Hmmm... sounds tricky. When did you want this by?''
Casino:''Tomorrow afternoon?''
Software provider:''I was thinking more like October 2013. Oh... and the cost of something like that is about $10,000.
Casino:''Wow... but what about the 10K I already paid you for other work this month?

Sorry, but I just don't buy that argument.
If it was only $10K it would be a tiny fraction of a casinos income - hardly worth a second thought.
And they wouldn't expect it "next day" any more than they would expect to ask for a new slot machine and get it the next day.
Just because something takes a long time, it doesn't mean you shouldn't start working on it.

I'm pretty sure we all know the REAL reason that casinos use T&Cs instead of software for bonus controls:
If the player loses (even if they break one of the T&Cs) - the casino keeps their money.
If the players wins, but breaks one of the T&Cs - the casino keeps their money (winnings).
Sorry, but even for most reputable casinos, that is the bottom line.

The ONLY way bonus players can overcome this is to do what they SHOULD all be doing anyway; read all the T&Cs before you start playing and make 100% sure you don't break any rules. Simple, effective and you will get your money!

KK

 

[Mousey]

....I'm not all that sure that it requires weeks to implement bet restrictions. I know I have read threads here about both playtech and RTG casinos where players have had their bet limits adjusted (both upwards and downwards), sometimes as abruptly after being disconnected by an administrator. If it can be done on the fly like this for some players, I'm sure it could be either automated or have to contact CS for a bonus so it could be implemented manually if the casino desired.

.....

Rival casinos used to do this to me.... often! At that time, there were no max limit stated for bets if taking a bonus. If I were betting $10 a spin (for instance) on a vid slot, and the slot went cold and was eating me a live... fine... but if I were betting >$9 a spin and running hot on that slot, I would be booted from the software, and when I'd log back in, that slot max bet would be set at $6.25 (or similar). If it was still running hot, I would be booted yet again, and the max bet would be something like $5 or $4.50. The first time or two it happened I thought I was losing my mind. Then others confirmed it had happened to them. I quit playing Rival. My max bet at almost all Rivals on the 3 reelers (which I loved and could do well on) was set at $3. That's all all just a little TOO personal for me.

Anyway... it can and has been done.

Bonus Abuser -- Player who continues to take bonuses offered by the casino even though they (the player) sometimes wins. If they don't want the player to have said bonuses, don't offer the trap.

Unusual betting patterns -- Varies by casino. For some it's players who come in and start off with huge bets, then, if they win, drop down to grinding out the WR with low bets. Or, it's players who start off betting low, then raise bets when winning. This term is usually only dragged out if the player wins on said bonus. A clear FU term.

Minimal Risk Wagering -- I've always thought of this as betting the same amount on red and black in roulette.

Advantage Player -- One who does the math (taking into account the game payback %, the bonus, the deposit, the possible comps earned) thereby descerning the best game play to possibly eek out a win.

side note: Sci-Fi (RTG, now dead) flagged my account as 'not in good standing'. Seems the manager didn't 'like the way I played' . When asked for further clarification, turns out, they didn't like that I cashed out when I won and never reversed. Almost never ever took a bonus, even way back then. I stopped playing there and they never had a chance to get their money back. Oh... and I was something like $200 in the black for the year.... LOL

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry, but I just don't buy that argument.
If it was only $10K it would be a tiny fraction of a casinos income - hardly worth a second thought.
And they wouldn't expect it "next day" any more than they would expect to ask for a new slot machine and get it the next day.
Just because something takes a long time, it doesn't mean you shouldn't start working on it.

I'm pretty sure we all know the REAL reason that casinos use T&Cs instead of software for bonus controls:
If the player loses (even if they break one of the T&Cs) - the casino keeps their money.
If the players wins, but breaks one of the T&Cs - the casino keeps their money (winnings).
Sorry, but even for most reputable casinos, that is the bottom line.

The ONLY way bonus players can overcome this is to do what they SHOULD all be doing anyway; read all the T&Cs before you start playing and make 100% sure you don't break any rules. Simple, effective and you will get your money!

KK

Not necessarily, some casinos use the "spirit of the bonus" defence to void winnings even where no terms have been broken. The other trick is to have terms so vague that the casino can make them mean what it takes to justify voiding the winnings of a given player.

 

[SlotMonster]

So, a casino may have in terms " NO low risk wagering" , but DOES NOT have CLEAR definition of what should be called "low risk wagering", and it means that this casino may define ANY bet like "low risk wagering"

NO WAY!