Very Strange Win

[4 of a kind]

Its things like this that happen to me that prevent me from letting go of the suspicions I have when it comes to online gambling.

Ive been playing at a certain casino for a good eight months which is also on the accredited list here at casinomiester. When I first tried this casino my first two deposits were with bonuses. Since then all my deposits were without bonuses of any type.

During this time I guess you could say I became a pretty loyal consistent depositor/player. I had two cash-outs during this time. One for two thousand dollars and my second cash out in the middle of November (09) for four thousand dollars. Even with these cash outs Im still behind at this site.

After my second cash out for 4k for the next 7 weeks following, it was like trying to beat the casino devil. Being an experienced player, I am not surprised by any losing streak I run into and in fact expect them and always ride them out to happy times again. But this bad run became ruthless. I was careful during this bad run, being certain not to over play. My deposits slowed down at this site and were spaced apart more then I like.

I am a 95% video poker player with maybe 5% thrown at real series slots. But no matter how little or much I tried it remained ruthless. During this negative run my bankroll never was up more then 2 or 3 hundred dollars, maybe once I hit 5. The sessions were shorter then ever and after giving back 7k I decided I had enough.

I sent an e-mail to casino support explaining that I felt the RTP was placed at a lower level and no longer was enjoying my play time at their casino. I also asked them to e-mail me when they turn it back up, and Id give them another go of it. (Sarcastic comment of course)

Sure enough Tuesday of this week I received an e-mail from them. They expressed their sadness of me having such bad luck at their site followed up with these things do happen. They assured me that it is impossible for them to control any settings set forth from their provider RTG. But because of my loyalty they already deposited into my account a $1,000.00 no deposit free chip good for all games, with 20xs play through and 2xs max cash out. A far cry from the $50.00 no deposit bonus coupon (for slots only) they give me for xmas with 20xs play through and 2xs max cash out which of course I never claimed.

Low and behold I go to the site and sure enough the 1k is sitting in my account. I start off with my usual $5.00 dollar a single hand of my favorite video poker games. The instant success was one like I never experienced before. Endless 4 of a kinds, straight flushes, (2 within 6 hands) boat after boat, I was immediately saying to myself this cant be. (Never hit a royal though) Went to joker poker for $10.00 dollars and $25.00 dollars a hand and again great success. Within two hours my bankroll is at 6k. The poker cooled off a bit so I go to Texas Tycoon for $6.25 a spin. Within my first 20 spins I hit some crap with the guy in the middle with 10xs for over $2,300.00 dollars which was more then the Random Jackpot. That cooled off quick, so I jumped around playing several different real series slots and eventually I went back to poker that although wasnt hitting big anymore it wasnt taken much money from my bankroll. I decide to call it a night with my bankroll still at 7k and a little more then 10k towards my play through.

To make a long story longer Wednesday night I sign back in and again I pick up where I lead off, covered my entire 20k play through and cashed the max 2xs plus the bonus for a total of 3k.

So, after 7 weeks and 7k of endless abuse, I send an e-mail get a free chip and all of a sudden Im king of the casino. Does anyone here find this suspicious??? Can something special in fact be done random for any particular player they choose, in the hopes of keeping me depositing?

I know no one for sure here could answer that, and many will stand up for the online casino. But for a player like myself in fact having this experience, I will continue even more to smell something is cooking in cyberspace...

 

[PenDragyn21]

I just think the pendulum finally swung back in your favor, that's all. The RNG is like the Terminator. When it decides to exterminate your bankroll, it doesn't cares if the credits were from a ND or deposit or if you're up overall against a particular casino or down overall. And it's just as heartless against the casino when it decides to work on your side.

 

[SlotMonster]

I have strange feeling like their software "recognized" your bonus, and only because it was no deposit bonus it was allowed you to win...

 

[Stovetopp]

I bet I know which casino you are referring to!! I have had similar experience
but on the losing side....i never complained to the casino I will just stop playing there for a while

 

[chuchu59]

I dont know exactly how much you lost 4OAK but the strange thing to me is the $1K bonus as normally if you lost several K they would either tell you to bugger off citing 'variance or bad luck' or throw you $50-$100. The winning streak does not surprise me though as it does happen.

 

[1366613]

I have strange feeling like their software "recognized" your bonus, and only because it was no deposit bonus it was allowed you to win...

Feel the same. At the end all software are controlable .

 

[newguy68]

Saying that they are unable to control RTP on games is just pure lie.
They can control for even for bet size, for each game.
In casinos many things are "random" such as these competitions some of them hold.
But in the end its all framed to go in their favour, better to give it to you since they already have to give, instead of someone who put total 60 bucks in 3 deposits and always ask a free bonus.

 

[TOC]

Its things like this that happen to me that prevent me from letting go of the suspicions I have when it comes to online gambling.

Ive been playing at a certain casino for a good eight months which is also on the accredited list here at casinomiester. When I first tried this casino my first two deposits were with bonuses. Since then all my deposits were without bonuses of any type.

During this time I guess you could say I became a pretty loyal consistent depositor/player. I had two cash-outs during this time. One for two thousand dollars and my second cash out in the middle of November (09) for four thousand dollars. Even with these cash outs Im still behind at this site.

After my second cash out for 4k for the next 7 weeks following, it was like trying to beat the casino devil. Being an experienced player, I am not surprised by any losing streak I run into and in fact expect them and always ride them out to happy times again. But this bad run became ruthless. I was careful during this bad run, being certain not to over play. My deposits slowed down at this site and were spaced apart more then I like.

I am a 95% video poker player with maybe 5% thrown at real series slots. But no matter how little or much I tried it remained ruthless. During this negative run my bankroll never was up more then 2 or 3 hundred dollars, maybe once I hit 5. The sessions were shorter then ever and after giving back 7k I decided I had enough.

I sent an e-mail to casino support explaining that I felt the RTP was placed at a lower level and no longer was enjoying my play time at their casino. I also asked them to e-mail me when they turn it back up, and Id give them another go of it. (Sarcastic comment of course)

Sure enough Tuesday of this week I received an e-mail from them. They expressed their sadness of me having such bad luck at their site followed up with these things do happen. They assured me that it is impossible for them to control any settings set forth from their provider RTG. But because of my loyalty they already deposited into my account a $1,000.00 no deposit free chip good for all games, with 20xs play through and 2xs max cash out. A far cry from the $50.00 no deposit bonus coupon (for slots only) they give me for xmas with 20xs play through and 2xs max cash out which of course I never claimed.

Low and behold I go to the site and sure enough the 1k is sitting in my account. I start off with my usual $5.00 dollar a single hand of my favorite video poker games. The instant success was one like I never experienced before. Endless 4 of a kinds, straight flushes, (2 within 6 hands) boat after boat, I was immediately saying to myself this cant be. (Never hit a royal though) Went to joker poker for $10.00 dollars and $25.00 dollars a hand and again great success. Within two hours my bankroll is at 6k. The poker cooled off a bit so I go to Texas Tycoon for $6.25 a spin. Within my first 20 spins I hit some crap with the guy in the middle with 10xs for over $2,300.00 dollars which was more then the Random Jackpot. That cooled off quick, so I jumped around playing several different real series slots and eventually I went back to poker that although wasnt hitting big anymore it wasnt taken much money from my bankroll. I decide to call it a night with my bankroll still at 7k and a little more then 10k towards my play through.

To make a long story longer Wednesday night I sign back in and again I pick up where I lead off, covered my entire 20k play through and cashed the max 2xs plus the bonus for a total of 3k.

So, after 7 weeks and 7k of endless abuse, I send an e-mail get a free chip and all of a sudden Im king of the casino. Does anyone here find this suspicious??? Can something special in fact be done random for any particular player they choose, in the hopes of keeping me depositing?

I know no one for sure here could answer that, and many will stand up for the online casino. But for a player like myself in fact having this experience, I will continue even more to smell something is cooking in cyberspace...

Wow, for being such a High Roller why would you continue if you feel as though something is cooking in cyberspace? Personally I feel unless you can do a simple screen shot showing that you are in fact playing in the 7 K's like you say this sounds like nothing more than another looser thread trying to stir up support. Back it up and I'll listen..:

I understand this is an open forum but you're just talking and not showing proof, which can be done very easily. I challenge you to show proof of what your stating. . Waiting...

 

[Nifty29]

But because of my loyalty they already deposited into my account a $1,000.00 no deposit free chip good for all games, with 20xs play through and 2xs max cash out.

Wow...thats a pretty nice bonus there 4OAK. If you dont want the next one I'll take it

Seriously though, Im surprised you are inferring that the casino is somehow ripping you off (well more than they are supposed to anyway) when you got a nice chunk of change in your pocket without a deposit. Im worried about what you might have posted if you lost the bonus.

Sounds like a good place to play judging from that example.

Saying that they are unable to control RTP on games is just pure lie

Bryan confirmed with RTG that operators can change the RTP settings within a given range but not without permission from RTG themselves.

The part the bothers me about that is that the player should be told about it, or if that cant be done the casino should commit publicly to a minimum RTP and abide by it. It isnt fair to get a lower RTP at one RTG compared to another when there is no way for the player to tell.

They can control for even for bet size, for each game.

Im fairly sure dogboy said something about this being done as well i.e. that RTP can depend on coin size, much in the same way as VP often has different paytables for different coins.

In casinos many things are "random" such as these competitions some of them hold.

Well its really a trust thing with all these 'random draws'. I dont take any notice as nobody has even proved they are random and unless they are going to be drawn live then we will never know. IMO dont ever deposit solely based on winning a random draw.

The problem with 4OAKs theory is, and think its what TOC is getting at, that none of the occurrences you describe are impossible nor are they rare. I have had very very similar experiences with VP at RTG, and I must admit that sometimes I wonder if it doesnt run on a slot RNG....but I do play the high variance VPs like double double bonus and bonus deuces wild so I have to swallow the long dry spells to be able to enjoy the big hits. It would interesing to know what VPs you play, as some of them are very streaky.

Earlier in the week I had a nice win at Jackpot Capital (no bonus) and cashed out a nice sum, and then received an email stating I had gone up to diamond status and got a $200 ND bonus as a result. The playthru was 60x with a 5x max, and I actually made it and cashed out the max. I made another 2 deposits yesterday and couldnt even hit a boat. Do I think they 'turned my account down' - nup. Why? Ive seen this kind of thing over and over and Ive been there and done that, AND Ive thought like you do at times....but I now know that losing is part of the deal and, just the same as I have hit some real monsters, I have had some hard times and this has always been the case.

Im not saying you're right or wrong. All Im saying is that I havent seen anything posted here about RTG or MG or 3Dice that makes me seriously think "these guys are taking me, or someone else, for a ride".

I agree with TOC insofar as no evidence has been presented to support cheating (and that is what it would be) by RTG software or any accredited operators. A single experience or bad loss or unusual run of luck is not, unfortunately, evidence. If someone finds something concrete, Im there with bells on!

Of course, the ultimate choice is a personal one - if you really think it isnt above board then dont give them your money. I know I wouldnt.

 

[Wildfire7]

I don't think there is anything in this. No casino in the world dishes out a free 1k chip and then lets you purposely win another 2k.

Your luck changed and so did your mindset. They unexpectedly gave you a free 1K chip, so all the pressures off you and you can start betting freely again. If people are playing feeling upset, feeling this, that and the other is rigged, then it can feel that no matter what you do, you will lose.

A happy gambler is in much more control, sure he might still lose, but he hasn't got the weight of the world on his shoulders.

In this business state of mind is everything, money can't buy that. So I have found it best only to play when you are feeling totally relaxed and all is well with the world. Otherwise do something less stressful, like taking the dog for a walk!

Mike

 

[4 of a kind]

Back it up and I'll listen..:

I understand this is an open forum but you're just talking and not showing proof, which can be done very easily. I challenge you to show proof of what your stating. . Waiting...

Don't know how to do a screen shot but copied from the history transaction page from Jan 4 to Jan 10 and this is how it came out.

From:




To:



Date Transaction Amount
1/7/2010 9:24:52 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Requested ($500.00)
1/7/2010 9:24:31 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Requested ($500.00)
1/7/2010 9:24:05 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Requested ($500.00)
1/7/2010 9:23:46 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Requested ($500.00)
1/7/2010 9:23:28 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Requested ($500.00)
1/7/2010 9:23:15 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Requested ($500.00)
1/5/2010 1:20:27 PM Promo Credit Deposit Approved! $1000.00
1/5/2010 1:20:24 PM Promo Credit Deposit Requested $1000.00

 

[funeral979]

I had a very similar experience to yours, 4OAK.

About a year ago I had had just about enough of a particular accredited RTG casino. Over the course of 4 years or so I had about 200 deposits and 3 withdrawals, and the casino was well ahead obviously(probably around 15K). Well they had a few emails from me in the past complaining about how tight they were, and I was always compensated with a free bonus. Well this time I told them I appreciated the bonuses and all but I was about ready to have my account closed. They responded back with another free bonus ($75) and said how they really hated to see me go. Less than an hour into playing that free chip I hit a random jackpot, for about $1500 I think.

I think it is very plausible that the casino would "hand over a win" in such instances to keep a good customer. So yes I do think a casino would dish out a free chip and then purposely let a player win. Why not? The player will probably give it back and then some within good time.

Now I don't know for sure if this was the case in my situation. or 4OAKs, but it does make one wonder...

 

[Nifty29]

I think it is very plausible that the casino would "hand over a win" in such instances to keep a good customer. So yes I do think a casino would dish out a free chip and then purposely let a player win.

Thanks for sharing your experience funeral.

I have a couple of questions from the above statement:

1. Do you really think that the casino can make your individual account lose at their leisure or 'tag' a bonus they issue to make you win? It would have to mean that you were playing 'clones' of the real games, otherwise any changes they make to the games (which they would have to do to make you lose) would affect other players too.

2. If you do believe that the above it true, why would they issue you with a whole lot of 'lose' bonuses beforehand (you indicated they had done many times previously) and then suddenly give you a 'winner' one?

If you consider all the above to be true, and it would have to be for your theory or 4OAKs theory to work, then why would you keep playing at RTG? You are inferring they are cheating and conning you, so why give them your money?

Its OK to complain if you think you are being stiffed, but IMO it loses a lot of credibility if you just keep on going back.

The plain truth is that you got lucky with that chip. If they give you enough freebies, you are going to hit something eventually....just like if you make enough deposits. I think someone else also said (Wildfire?) that we tend to play differently with freebies also, which can be a big factor.

Its interesting to note that one never sees posts from players complaining that the 'software isnt random' when they cashout 3 times in a row or hit 2 RJs in a week.....its only when they lose. Yes, 4OAK is talking about winning from a free chip, but his real issue is that they lost almost every time with their own money, so its still about losing in the end.

Nothing personal, just my 2 cents.

 

[felicie]

Proof proof schmoof! It's just a feeling some of us get and some of us don't from playing so long on a regular basis at the same casinos. I have had a few wins that I felt were obviously loyalty wins or just because I'm a good depositor and hadn't won for some time. I felt I was being led to certain slot games that were hot right then, the lines were set different as was the bet and sure enough if I hit spin instead of max bet, it started jumpin. On bonus games, certain things were brighter as if to say choose me. And it went on and on from slot to slot till I got to a certain amount and then I could not get any higher. No matter what I did it was as if a limit had been set and that is why I suddenly began to feel I was being given that win.
As nice as it might have been, it's the last thing I personally want to find happening because then it isn't random and the funs over.

 

[funeral979]

Thanks for sharing your experience funeral.

I have a couple of questions from the above statement:

1. Do you really think that the casino can make your individual account lose at their leisure or 'tag' a bonus they issue to make you win? It would have to mean that you were playing 'clones' of the real games, otherwise any changes they make to the games (which they would have to do to make you lose) would affect other players too.

2. If you do believe that the above it true, why would they issue you with a whole lot of 'lose' bonuses beforehand (you indicated they had done many times previously) and then suddenly give you a 'winner' one?

If you consider all the above to be true, and it would have to be for your theory or 4OAKs theory to work, then why would you keep playing at RTG? You are inferring they are cheating and conning you, so why give them your money?

Its OK to complain if you think you are being stiffed, but IMO it loses a lot of credibility if you just keep on going back.

The plain truth is that you got lucky with that chip. If they give you enough freebies, you are going to hit something eventually....just like if you make enough deposits. I think someone else also said (Wildfire?) that we tend to play differently with freebies also, which can be a big factor.

Its interesting to note that one never sees posts from players complaining that the 'software isnt random' when they cashout 3 times in a row or hit 2 RJs in a week.....its only when they lose. Yes, 4OAK is talking about winning from a free chip, but his real issue is that they lost almost every time with their own money, so its still about losing in the end.

Nothing personal, just my 2 cents.

Thanks for your feedback!

Well to answer your first question, of course I cannot say for certain if that is possible. It sure SEEMS like this is the case though in certain situations. And do we really know for sure that operators cannot fiddle with JUST your games (and not everyone else)?? I believe this was brought up recently and we were told that the RTP could not be changed for an individual. But again we have to just accept this as truth from the same folks that still allow the likes of the Virtual family to prosper.

And to your second question, I got that "winning" free chip after I hinted that I would like my account closed. The other chips were given due to my poor sessions, just to appease me....coincidence?...

I don't really complain alot when I lose. You can look at my posts and you wont find very many (except in extreme circumstances-23 BJ losses in a row...same casino, btw). As far as keep going back? Well I really dont anymore. Across all RTG casinos, I used to deposit between $1,000-$2,000 a month on average. Since last February, I now deposit between $25-$50 a month at RTG. At that price, at least losing can be fun sometimes

 

[DogBoy001]

Im fairly sure dogboy said something about this being done as well i.e. that RTP can depend on coin size, much in the same way as VP often has different paytables for different coins.

Heya,

No, that's not the case, since RTP is constant across all bet levels.

What I said was in relation to the random jackpots, with proportional chance of triggering based on level of bet, which is necessary to have an unvarying RTP per bet.

Woooof

 

[Nifty29]

Heya,

No, that's not the case, since RTP is constant across all bet levels.

What I said was in relation to the random jackpots, with proportional chance of triggering based on level of bet, which is necessary to have an unvarying RTP per bet.

Woooof

Cool thanks dogboy for clearing that up - I knew you said something to do with bet levels

How about the happy ox, 3 stooges etc....they dont seem to go off anywhere - are they expected to get very high before they go off?

 

[WonderingSpirit]

Last year I made a shitload of deposits. 2 times did I complain to casino support about my bad luck, 20-30 deposits nowhere close to winning. Both Accredited casinos.

One was at live chat with the casino boss himself. He gave me 50$ and wrote: "Try now " ( with the smiley face ) Sure enough I hit a winning streak that was good enough for a cash out.

One was a request for a free chip in a PM here at the forum. I was given 32$ and guess what. I hit 1200$ on free spins with 0,75$ bet.


A couple of years ago i moaned about a MG casino. ( not sure if it was accredited. Dont remember the name of the casino. I was given 20$ free chip.
I told my fiancee to come to the computer, and I told her: "Look Im gonna hit a bonusgame". On the very first spin I won the bonus feature. I never played at that casino again.

Makes you wonder...

 

[WonderingSpirit]

I think it is very plausible that the casino would "hand over a win" in such instances to keep a good customer. So yes I do think a casino would dish out a free chip and then purposely let a player win. Why not? The player will probably give it back and then some within good time.

Now I don't know for sure if this was the case in my situation. or 4OAKs, but it does make one wonder...

Another good reason to "hand over a win" is if the casino rep knows your active at forums.

 

[pmhcfc]

Just one other interesting thought to add...

If you had deposited $1000 and not had the free chip- I wonder if your luck would have been as good....That's to say, you would have been cashing out much more than the $2k because of no playthrough... Hmmm

 

[slotjunkie]

Definitely RIGGED!!!!!!!

REGARDING POST Very strange win:

I saved a chat that I had with a highly accredited casino in which he confirmed that indeed all of the software is controlled by the CASINO, NOT the SOFTWARE PROVIDER!!! And this was confirmed by two casinos using different gaming software!
4 of a kind, you are not crazy, you are following the intuition that God put in you! That feeling in your gut that tells you something aint right!!
My husband has been in IT(software) for a very long time and he says ANY software can be manipulated, period!

All that mumble jumble about your luck just suddenly changed(at the exact time of your complaint) is just that, mumble jumble!!!!!! You have put a nice amount of money into there casino and with your threat to leave unless they change their RTP, they got their act together asap!
Let you believe you are winning, (when really it is your money you put in anyway), you are now again happy with their casino, and will once again put in big $$$$$!
I make it a habit to stay in tune with that gut feeling that is trying to get my attention, that is what it is there for! It is not IBS people, pay attention!

 

[bakonlin]

Casino set the software

REGARDING POST Very strange win:

I saved a chat that I had with a highly accredited casino in which he confirmed that indeed all of the software is controlled by the CASINO, NOT the SOFTWARE PROVIDER!!! And this was confirmed by two casinos using different gaming software!
4 of a kind, you are not crazy, you are following the intuition that God put in you! That feeling in your gut that tells you something aint right!!
My husband has been in IT(software) for a very long time and he says ANY software can be manipulated, period!

All that mumble jumble about your luck just suddenly changed(at the exact time of your complaint) is just that, mumble jumble!!!!!! You have put a nice amount of money into there casino and with your threat to leave unless they change their RTP, they got their act together asap!
Let you believe you are winning, (when really it is your money you put in anyway), you are now again happy with their casino, and will once again put in big $$$$$!
I make it a habit to stay in tune with that gut feeling that is trying to get my attention, that is what it is there for! It is not IBS people, pay attention!

I also believe the casino set the software.6 Years ago I met a lady coincidently in front of a casino whilst waiting the casino to open.She was the owner of 10 slot machines in another area.
She said that only 2 of the machines were set letting the players to get more winning hit than loosing,whilst the rest of the machines were not possible for the players to win.If it was not done the players would not play in that place if all the machines rob the players.
Of course this was the individual machine so the owner could do the set up easier,but the fact the software were set up by the owner of the casino is true.

 

[De Beuker]

REGARDING POST Very strange win:

I saved a chat that I had with a highly accredited casino in which he confirmed that indeed all of the software is controlled by the CASINO, NOT the SOFTWARE PROVIDER!!! And this was confirmed by two casinos using different gaming software!
4 of a kind, you are not crazy, you are following the intuition that God put in you! That feeling in your gut that tells you something aint right!!
My husband has been in IT(software) for a very long time and he says ANY software can be manipulated, period!

All that mumble jumble about your luck just suddenly changed(at the exact time of your complaint) is just that, mumble jumble!!!!!! You have put a nice amount of money into there casino and with your threat to leave unless they change their RTP, they got their act together asap!
Let you believe you are winning, (when really it is your money you put in anyway), you are now again happy with their casino, and will once again put in big $$$$$!
I make it a habit to stay in tune with that gut feeling that is trying to get my attention, that is what it is there for! It is not IBS people, pay attention!

Slotjunkie, would you mind posting that chatconversation here?
I think I've read it on another forum a while ago and if it is the post I think it is, it was very..eh..scary to say the least.
I think many people here would love to read that conversation.

 

[PenDragyn21]

REGARDING POST Very strange win:

I saved a chat that I had with a highly accredited casino in which he confirmed that indeed all of the software is controlled by the CASINO, NOT the SOFTWARE PROVIDER!!! And this was confirmed by two casinos using different gaming software!
4 of a kind, you are not crazy, you are following the intuition that God put in you! That feeling in your gut that tells you something aint right!!
My husband has been in IT(software) for a very long time and he says ANY software can be manipulated, period!

All that mumble jumble about your luck just suddenly changed(at the exact time of your complaint) is just that, mumble jumble!!!!!! You have put a nice amount of money into there casino and with your threat to leave unless they change their RTP, they got their act together asap!
Let you believe you are winning, (when really it is your money you put in anyway), you are now again happy with their casino, and will once again put in big $$$$$!
I make it a habit to stay in tune with that gut feeling that is trying to get my attention, that is what it is there for! It is not IBS people, pay attention!

I apologize in advance if this post is too long or harsh. But software red herrings keep us looking in the wrong direction while the real scam is going on elsewhere.

This is mumbo-jumbo. Changing RTP isn't turning on or off a magical "win" switch. It wouldn't affect just one player or just one type of deposit (because this is all a free chip is). If they did something like this everyone would have noticed.

From what I've seen from using RTG software, it's a glorified internet explorer browser and the casino games and the cashier are two very different, separate software. Have you ever noticed the how long it takes it to go cashier instead of the lobby and why the cashiers at places like Bodog and CWC don't look or work the same? I don't think the main gaming part knows the difference between a free chip or a cash deposit or a deposit from a high roller vs a low roller. All it knows are credits in/credits out and I believe that's very deliberate on RTG's part so that what's being alleged in the post can't happen.

Yes, software can be manipulated but what you're husband is probably referring to is call hacking (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

). "Manipulating" software usually means getting it to do something it normally wasn't intended to do. Since all of the RTG casinos use the same game software and some of the operators do give us a peek behind the curtain every now and them, I think they might have mentioned something about this. So what that means is if this casino has "magical" winning free chips it's because they went out got a really clever programmer who hacked the software to do something it normally doesn't do. And this programmer is also is clever enough to circumvent whatever failsafes and doublechecks RTG has in place to protect the integrity of their software.

 

[silcnlayc]

whatever failsafes and doublechecks RTG has in place to protect the integrity of their software.

Where is the "Proof" in this statement? Or is it just an assumption that you want to believe that they have done this for protecting the integrity? As I have been told many times...prove it...that they have these failsafes..if not then I suggest you restate this as an assumption...or belief..

All it takes to change software is one line of code placed in the right place...and removed when no longer needed..and can be done by anyone knowing software or writing codes..

.

 

[Wildfire7]

Pendragyn21 Changing RTP isn't turning on or off a magical "win" switch. It wouldn't affect just one player or just one type of deposit (because this is all a free chip is). If they did something like this everyone would have noticed.

This is true, changing the RTP few % here and there is not going to produce obvious changes to a players session. Even if the RTP is set at the lowest setting players could still be lucky and win.

It is sheer fantasy that players can fire an email off to the management and get a winning run to help them along. The fact of the matter is playing in a casino involves an element of financial risk. Long losing streaks do not indicate that the games are somehow set unfairly.

When you listen to some of these RTG players complaining you would think they are being forced to play. You do have a choice, if you feel the software is unfair then stand up for your beliefs and do not give these casinos your money.

Alas this never happens, despite all the moaning players will come back again. When they win you hear them cry its rigged because the casino decided to let them win. When they lose they post on here its rigged because they cannot get a decent session.

Get this rigged mentality out of your head I say, and start playing software that you feel is not rigged. If your hobby is causing so much stress then surely its time to take a break or better still get a new hobby.

Mike

 

[PenDragyn21]

Where is the "Proof" in this statement? Or is it just an assumption that you want to believe that they have done this for protecting the integrity? As I have been told many times...prove it...that they have these failsafes..if not then I suggest you restate this as an assumption...or belief..

All it takes to change software is one line of code placed in the right place...and removed when no longer needed..and can be done by anyone knowing software or writing codes..

.

The burden of proof lies on the party making the allegation. But if you insist "whatever failsafes and doublechecks RTG MAY have in place to protect the integrity of their software." Some of this is based on what I've read in the old RTG website before they took down most of the information.

It's also an assumption that it just takes one line of code in the right place in this particular instance to do this and that it can be done by anyone who can code.

One failsafe we know is in place is RTG has to confirm RTP change, so certain changes to the software send an alert to RTG. We also know that a third party checks their RNG. ASSUMPTION ALERT: Being that this is a client/server app, it is outright suicidal of RTG to have no checks in place protect the integrity of the data stream. Without it, forget the casinos, disreputable players would hack it left and right so that they always won.

 

[4 of a kind]

It is sheer fantasy that players can fire an email off to the management and get a winning run to help them along. The fact of the matter is playing in a casino involves an element of financial risk. Long losing streaks do not indicate that the games are somehow set unfairly.

When you listen to some of these RTG players complaining you would think they are being forced to play. You do have a choice, if you feel the software is unfair then stand up for your beliefs and do not give these casinos your money.

Alas this never happens, despite all the moaning players will come back again. When they win you hear them cry its rigged because the casino decided to let them win. When they lose they post on here its rigged because they cannot get a decent session.

Get this rigged mentality out of your head I say, and start playing software that you feel is not rigged. If your hobby is causing so much stress then surely its time to take a break or better still get a new hobby.

Mike

When it comes to online casinos or poker rooms, I always speak for myself and from personal experiences.

I can assure you if I never hit big and never cashed out I wouldnt still be betting online after 10 years plus.

I respect your opinion and comments Wikdfire7 when you say if you dont trust it dont play it. Well I dont trust it 100% and still play. Regardless how many deposits or cash outs I had in the past, I still always keep my eyes and ears open. I carry a negative bankroll with online casinos (not online poker) just as I do with land based casinos. When I play poker tournaments the entire time (except when Im looking at my hold cards) Im watching the table for poker tells, and a careful eye on collusion team signals, chip dumping, soft play, etc... None of this might be going on during any one particular game but this doesnt mean Im going to stop looking. Many incidents have happened in the past especially at local poker clubs that got ugly. Maybe some day Ill share some of these stories in the attic.

Now when it comes to online casinos I dont care how accredited they are, the online casino industry themselves insist on not coming to the forefront. All they constantly do is create doubt and distrust. Casino owners, operators, software providers, programmers, casino support, cashiers, everyone involved want to remain anonymous with the luxury of hiding in cyberspace. Not one of them ever come forward and explains anything as a matter of fact. Did you know that just about all the reps you speak to at a casino the name they use during chat is not their real name?

Seventy percent of the threads here are about being abused in one form or another. Yes, I also understand many are real petty and senseless. But overall based on what we read here you cant possibly think that all is fare in cyberspace casinos.

As far as me having this illusion of firing off an e-mail getting a free chip and winning with it is confirming any thing more then pure coincidence is hopefully nonsense. Yet, on the other hand can you be absolutely 100% positive it was pure coincidence? I certainly cant prove it wasnt a coincidence. Can you prove it was a coincidence?

I started this thread stating Its things like this that happen to me that prevent me from letting go of the suspicions I have when it comes to online gambling. I closed it with I will continue even more to smell something is cooking in cyberspace... Nothing more here then expressing my feelings. Of course I have no proof.

I respect what you or anyone else here have to say and will always listen. I may or may not agree, but that doesnt mean what I or you have to say is the law of the land.

Before I flip a coin with you for my cash, I want to see the coin before you flip it and I want to pick it off the floor after the flip for another inspection or Im not paying.

As far as online casinos go, as long as it stays in its present form the rigged accusations will never end. I'll probably get this rigged mentality out of my head when the U.S.A. hopefully get involved.

On a personal note, I never complained about any losing streak and lord knows Ive had a few. Ive complained about having a terrible year or two but not any one casino. In addition I always got treated fairly after becoming loyal to many different online casinos over the years. This doesnt mean I cant think they might be screwing me.

When I think it gets over the top and there's no chance at all, that's when I'll quit my hobby. But for now I'm still enjoying myself even if I'm getting screwed.

 

[bryand]

I started this thread stating Its things like this that happen to me that prevent me from letting go of the suspicions I have when it comes to online gambling. I closed it with I will continue even more to smell something is cooking in cyberspace... Nothing more here then expressing my feelings. Of course I have no proof.

Reading this part of your post I laughed and had to chime in about forum threads in general. If I started a thread titled "I'm not confident about the integrity of online casinos." posts would show up accusing me of cheating and paraphrasing me as saying the entire internet was bogus. On page 2 of the thread a post would say that I really meant to slander every online casino and that I really have it out for CM and its moderators. On page 3, I would be accused of denying the holocaust and of making death threats against Mr. Microsoft himself

/derail

 

[slotjunkie]

Where is the "Proof" in this statement? Or is it just an assumption that you want to believe that they have done this for protecting the integrity? As I have been told many times...prove it...that they have these failsafes..if not then I suggest you restate this as an assumption...or belief..

All it takes to change software is one line of code placed in the right place...and removed when no longer needed..and can be done by anyone knowing software or writing codes..

.

THANK YOU!
Has nothing to do with hacking, just as silcnlayc stated it is a simple line change or code. Who do you think made the software in the first place, software engineers who as well know how to manipulate it easily!
And they do not have to change the settings as a whole, they can change it per player!
I will post chat convo and other supporting info later!

 

[slotjunkie]

When it comes to online casinos or poker rooms, I always speak for myself and from personal experiences.

I can assure you if I never hit big and never cashed out I wouldnt still be betting online after 10 years plus.

I respect your opinion and comments Wikdfire7 when you say if you dont trust it dont play it. Well I dont trust it 100% and still play. Regardless how many deposits or cash outs I had in the past, I still always keep my eyes and ears open. I carry a negative bankroll with online casinos (not online poker) just as I do with land based casinos. When I play poker tournaments the entire time (except when Im looking at my hold cards) Im watching the table for poker tells, and a careful eye on collusion team signals, chip dumping, soft play, etc... None of this might be going on during any one particular game but this doesnt mean Im going to stop looking. Many incidents have happened in the past especially at local poker clubs that got ugly. Maybe some day Ill share some of these stories in the attic.

Now when it comes to online casinos I dont care how accredited they are, the online casino industry themselves insist on not coming to the forefront. All they constantly do is create doubt and distrust. Casino owners, operators, software providers, programmers, casino support, cashiers, everyone involved want to remain anonymous with the luxury of hiding in cyberspace. Not one of them ever come forward and explains anything as a matter of fact. Did you know that just about all the reps you speak to at a casino the name they use during chat is not their real name?

Seventy percent of the threads here are about being abused in one form or another. Yes, I also understand many are real petty and senseless. But overall based on what we read here you cant possibly think that all is fare in cyberspace casinos.

As far as me having this illusion of firing off an e-mail getting a free chip and winning with it is confirming any thing more then pure coincidence is hopefully nonsense. Yet, on the other hand can you be absolutely 100% positive it was pure coincidence? I certainly cant prove it wasnt a coincidence. Can you prove it was a coincidence?

I started this thread stating Its things like this that happen to me that prevent me from letting go of the suspicions I have when it comes to online gambling. I closed it with I will continue even more to smell something is cooking in cyberspace... Nothing more here then expressing my feelings. Of course I have no proof.

I respect what you or anyone else here have to say and will always listen. I may or may not agree, but that doesnt mean what I or you have to say is the law of the land.

Before I flip a coin with you for my cash, I want to see the coin before you flip it and I want to pick it off the floor after the flip for another inspection or Im not paying.

As far as online casinos go, as long as it stays in its present form the rigged accusations will never end. I'll probably get this rigged mentality out of my head when the U.S.A. hopefully get involved.

On a personal note, I never complained about any losing streak and lord knows Ive had a few. Ive complained about having a terrible year or two but not any one casino. In addition I always got treated fairly after becoming loyal to many different online casinos over the years. This doesnt mean I cant think they might be screwing me.

When I think it gets over the top and there's no chance at all, that's when I'll quit my hobby. But for now I'm still enjoying myself even if I'm getting screwed.

This is straight from an online software gaming provider:

Gaming Software

Administration and Reporting

The charting tool allows you to move lines, add or edit games, monitor wager activity and much more. Unique wager profiles can be created for individual users or groups of users, allowing you to easily cater to the specific wagering needs of those customers. Grading is lightning fast. Re-grading and un-grading functions allow you to modify or undo the grading process quickly and easily. Detailed reports covering every facet of your operation are instantly available. Custom reports can be created with to give you the specific information you need when you need it.

The chat I saved is from TopGame and it is the whole screenshot of the casino, because of the way their chat is set up I couldn't just save the chat or I don't know of another way. But I assure you I was told that the casino controls the software not the provider. I have no reason to make things up, what will that get me!
It makes makes perfect sense. Example: you chose a bank(provider) to deposit your money, well they have your money but they don't control it, you do. It is no different; the casino chooses someone to host the games(software) but they are the ones in control!

 

[Roanan]

THANK YOU!
Has nothing to do with hacking, just as silcnlayc stated it is a simple line change or code. Who do you think made the software in the first place, software engineers who as well know how to manipulate it easily!
And they do not have to change the settings as a whole, they can change it per player!
I will post chat convo and other supporting info later!

Anyone ever heard of something called an

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

?

The majority of software engineers and programmers put one in as a form of signature, or just to be mischievous.

Some are hidden features, some are hidden messages and some are backdoor access points.



Software manipulation is ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY!!!!!

 

[slotjunkie]

Anyone ever heard of something called an

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

?

The majority of software engineers and programmers put one in as a form of signature, or just to be mischievous.

Some are hidden features, some are hidden messages and some are backdoor access points.



Software manipulation is ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY!!!!!

THANK YOU!

 

[Kenny Lingus]

The plain truth is that you got lucky with that chip.

The plain truth is, that you really don't know for sure if any, all, or a particular casino actually cheats. Because if they did, and it was done intelligently, it could be almost impossible to detect.

No, that's not the case, since RTP is constant across all bet levels.

Unless, of course, it has been manipulated. (P.S.- was that on topic?)

The fact of the matter is playing in a casino involves an element of financial risk. Long losing streaks do not indicate that the games are somehow set unfairly.

When you listen to some of these RTG players complaining you would think they are being forced to play. You do have a choice, if you feel the software is unfair then stand up for your beliefs and do not give these casinos your money.

On the other hand, if the games were indeed unfair, long losing streaks would be one manifestation of this corruption.

I agree about the "You do have a choice " part; I myself have not played RTG software for at least 3 years now, and I doubt I could ever be made to return, except for a free chip.

Now when it comes to online casinos I dont care how accredited they are, the online casino industry themselves insist on not coming to the forefront. All they constantly do is create doubt and distrust. Casino owners, operators, software providers, programmers, casino support, cashiers, everyone involved want to remain anonymous with the luxury of hiding in cyberspace. Not one of them ever come forward and explains anything as a matter of fact. Did you know that just about all the reps you speak to at a casino the name they use during chat is not their real name?

As far as me having this illusion of firing off an e-mail getting a free chip and winning with it is confirming any thing more then pure coincidence is hopefully nonsense. Yet, on the other hand can you be absolutely 100% positive it was pure coincidence? I certainly cant prove it wasnt a coincidence. Can you prove it was a coincidence?

Extremely well said!

Anyone ever heard of something called an

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

?

The majority of software engineers and programmers put one in as a form of signature, or just to be mischievous.

Some are hidden features, some are hidden messages and some are backdoor access points.

Software manipulation is ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY!!!!!

Another great point! The Easter Bunny may not exist, but cheaters and scoundrels will always be around...

 

[PenDragyn21]

Trust between the players and casinos is damaged and while that exists there will always be doubt and they'll think the casinos capable of anything. The casino made me lose or made me win arguments are the symptom not the disease. Hopefully some will find comfort in the fact that some ways of screwing players over are not as simple as you may think.

The rest of the post might be off topic so feel free to skip it.

THANK YOU!
Has nothing to do with hacking, just as silcnlayc stated it is a simple line change or code. Who do you think made the software in the first place, software engineers who as well know how to manipulate it easily!
And they do not have to change the settings as a whole, they can change it per player!
I will post chat convo and other supporting info later!

Hacks/jury rigs and one line code changes are not mutually exclusive (a hack/jury rig can be a one line code change or vice versa). And the more complex the product, the more likely any software change (one line or not) breaks 10 other things. Software engineers can be just as shortsighted as the rest of us, which is why there is a whole career field devoted to telling them what they did wrong.

Your chat showed nothing about allowing an individual player to win or the ability to manipulate the RNG on a player by player basis or a chip type basis. It's says nothing about handing over wins or losses. Grading in the context appears to be mean what sort of category the player falls into and not whether or not they should win or lose.

Software manipulation is ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY!!!!!

Of course software manipulation is always possible because no one is perfect and no one has infinite time and money. (See above comment about shortsighted programmers.) Never anywhere did I say it couldn't be changed. I'm saying that some changes are less likely than others because some changes carry more risks than others. And even more important, some changes can be NOTICED more than others.

Easter eggs and backdoors are like assassins, yeah sometimes they a part of some larger conspiracy, but usually they are the result of one lone individual with either a grudge or too much time on their hands.

 

[felicie]

It's like science and religion, some have proof some have faith. And posting agreement in this thread doesn't mean we are poor losers or winners. It just means we relate to what someone said. This isn't a bitch-fest after all but I do love to have the last word

ps. my 'strange win' was an mg not rtg.