US political crisis

[Skrim]

How many Americans are waiting for Trump to return to the presidency?

 

[Nowunimportant]

How many Americans are waiting for Trump to return to the presidency?

Well the news has been pretty boring ever since he left office

 

[Skrim]

Well the news has been pretty boring ever since he left office

He's more of a showman, I agree.What is the mood in America right now?

 

[Nowunimportant]

He's more of a showman, I agree.What is the mood in America right now?

If you're on the right you're blaming Biden for inflation & everything else. If you're on the left you're blaming trump for leaving the country in such a mess.

All the while nothing ever gets done because the two sides are too busy blaming each other.

 

[Skrim]

If you're on the right you're blaming Biden for inflation & everything else. If you're on the left you're blaming trump for leaving the country in such a mess.

All the while nothing ever gets done because the two sides are too busy blaming each other.

Weren't things better under Trump?

 

[Nowunimportant]

Weren't things better under Trump?

More entertaining maybe, but getting things done before him was already hard enough now it's basically impossible.

Before anyone comes at me calling me a "dem" I was Republican ever since I registered at 18

 

[Skrim]

As an outside observer, I like Trump more than any other president, although I may not understand it.

 

[slotplayer]

It's not even close, Inflation, Border, Crime all up, up, up under the current administration.

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Not to mention some law clerk leaking the SCOTUS draft on the controversial abortion issue (roe v. wade), will the riots start?

 

[sufferinsilence]

They've gone absolutely insane.

 

[Kroffe]

They've gone absolutely insane.

You would think the side wanting less abortions would be all for contraceptives and education being available, since that is the best way to lower the amount of abortions being performed, but weirdly enough they hate those things too.

Nobody is pro-abortion, which becomes clear when you see that the same people being accused of being pro-abortion are the ones that want contraceptives and education to be available.
Nobody that was pro-abortion would support those things because they drastically reduce how many people are having abortions.
Imo its not Pro-abortion vs anti-abortion, its pro-choice vs anti-choice.

 

[mack341]

As it'll be state by state I can't see that it is the end of the world, you'll still be able to get an abortion in a liberal run state, but agree banning contraception methods doesn't make any sense.

Just looking at the abortion rate and slightly surprised, by population, sweden had a larger number performed than the US. [2016 figures]

 

[Kroffe]

As it'll be state by state I can't see that it is the end of the world, you'll still be able to get an abortion in a liberal run state, but agree banning contraception methods doesn't make any sense.

Just looking at the abortion rate and slightly surprised, by population, sweden had a larger number performed than the US. [2016 figures]

I saw some states are looking into making it illegal to travel to another state to have an abortion.
Not sure how they would be able to enforce something like that tho.
Personally i think that making abortions illegal wont stop people from having abortions, it will only stop people from having safe abortions.
I would also imagine the extreme positions taken by some politicians/states will lose GOP alot of votes.

Tried googling 'abortion rates by country' and going by the first result that supposedly is showing 2022 data we are slightly below USA, but not by much.
And as always we are doing worse than our neighboring countries, Finland not visible on the screenshot but they were at 11.1 (per 1000 women annually)

 

[mack341]

I saw some states are looking into making it illegal to travel to another state to have an abortion.
Not sure how they would be able to enforce something like that tho.
Personally i think that making abortions illegal wont stop people from having abortions, it will only stop people from having safe abortions.
I would also imagine the extreme positions taken by some politicians/states will lose GOP alot of votes.

Tried googling 'abortion rates by country' and going by the first result that supposedly is showing 2022 data we are slightly below USA, but not by much.
And as always we are doing worse than our neighboring countries, Finland not visible on the screenshot but they were at 11.1 (per 1000 women annually)


View attachment 167681

We're quite high up and I can't remember it ever coming up in political debates or the newspapers, a settled subject I guess. If england outlawed it though [unlikely] wales and scotland would go their own way and allow it.

I woudn't be in favour of a republican supreme court forcing democrat states to ban it, I think that is the issue, forcing a decision that's unpopular with the majority in a state either way.

I think italy or malta banned citizens from getting an abortion elsewhere iirc, I think that's going too far. Someone posted a pic on twitter of an aborted baby, it made me feel sick, I quickly looked away but still saw it, like something out of a horror film.

There was a story from the uk where hospitals incinerated aborted babies to heat the hospital, just can't believe some things that go on in this world, very dark.

 

[Kroffe]

We're quite high up and I can't remember it ever coming up in political debates or the newspapers, a settled subject I guess. If england outlawed it though [unlikely] wales and scotland would go their own way and allow it.

I woudn't be in favour of a republican supreme court forcing democrat states to ban it, I think that is the issue, forcing a decision that's unpopular with the majority in a state either way.

I think italy or malta banned citizens from getting an abortion elsewhere iirc, I think that's going too far. Someone posted a pic on twitter of an aborted baby, it made me feel sick, I quickly looked away but still saw it, like something out of a horror film.

There was a story from the uk where hospitals incinerated aborted babies to heat the hospital, just can't believe some things that go on in this world, very dark.

Its a very touchy subject.
If you ask 100 people 'when does life begin' you will get alot of different answers/definitions.

 

[sufferinsilence]

We're quite high up and I can't remember it ever coming up in political debates or the newspapers, a settled subject I guess. If england outlawed it though [unlikely] wales and scotland would go their own way and allow it.

I woudn't be in favour of a republican supreme court forcing democrat states to ban it, I think that is the issue, forcing a decision that's unpopular with the majority in a state either way.

I think italy or malta banned citizens from getting an abortion elsewhere iirc, I think that's going too far. Someone posted a pic on twitter of an aborted baby, it made me feel sick, I quickly looked away but still saw it, like something out of a horror film.

There was a story from the uk where hospitals incinerated aborted babies to heat the hospital, just can't believe some things that go on in this world, very dark.

Thing is that if R states ban both contraception and abortion there will be a humongous rise in unwanted (teen) pregnancies. Now if they can't even get an abortion out of state there'll be "underground" clinics again where the chance of women dying while getting an abortion are a shitload higher than when done by a doctor in a professional setting.

And then I haven't even touched on the fact when the decision is made to keep the baby. Will they give the child up for adoption or will it perhaps suffer mental and/or physical abuse because it's unwanted? What about the mothers (or parents) mental wellbeing?

For a party that's all about freedom this is just all very strange.

 

[ladyhawke]

Just looking at the abortion rate and slightly surprised, by population, sweden had a larger number performed than the US. [2016 figures]

Statistics are always interesting, but without context can be relatively meaningless.

In the chart presented by Kroffe, I was surprised to see Australia listed 3rd, bearing in mind the size of our population, and how it is not that easy to get an abortion, depending on the State in question.

I was also quite surprised to see the USA at the top, as religious extremists, who are usually by definition against women's rights, hold quite a bit of influence in many states.

Not so much Sweden, as it is known as a liberal country.


So why do some countries have high abortion rates?

More sexual freedom leading to unwanted pregnancies?

Many couples not being in either a financial or emotional position to have a child?

Women abandoned by their partners when a pregnancy is confirmed?

Women placing careers before children?

Lack of stigma attacked to abortion?

Too many children in the family already?

Abortions being used as birth control?

The assumption is: Abortions are relatively freely available in the first place.


In countries with lower abortion rates:

Contraception not freely available?

Contraception freely available and widely used?

Sex is only for procreation?

A repressive/restrictive society for women?

Religious beliefs?

Abortions difficult to obtain?


If Roe vs Wade is overturned in the USA, and some of those other laws are implemented, then I fear the USA is going to turn in a modern-day version of The Handmaid's Tale.

 

[Kroffe]

Statistics are always interesting, but without context can be relatively meaningless.

In the chart presented by Kroffe, I was surprised to see Australia listed 3rd, bearing in mind the size of our population, and how it is not that easy to get an abortion, depending on the State in question.

I was also quite surprised to see the USA at the top, as religious extremists, who are usually by definition against women's rights, hold quite a bit of influence in many states.

Not so much Sweden, as it is known as a liberal country.


So why do some countries have high abortion rates?

More sexual freedom leading to unwanted pregnancies?

Many couples not being in either a financial or emotional position to have a child?

Women abandoned by their partners when a pregnancy is confirmed?

Women placing careers before children?

Lack of stigma attacked to abortion?

Too many children in the family already?

Abortions being used as birth control?

The assumption is: Abortions are relatively freely available in the first place.


In countries with lower abortion rates:

Contraception not freely available?

Contraception freely available and widely used?

Sex is only for procreation?

A repressive/restrictive society for women?

Religious beliefs?

Abortions difficult to obtain?


If Roe vs Wade is overturned in the USA, and some of those other laws are implemented, then I fear the USA is going to turn in a modern-day version of The Handmaid's Tale.

My bad, the list did not start there.
I just scrolled down so i could include our neighbours Norway&Denmark

This is from the top. (this is the site i looked at:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

)

 

[mack341]

Statistics are always interesting, but without context can be relatively meaningless.

In the chart presented by Kroffe, I was surprised to see Australia listed 3rd, bearing in mind the size of our population, and how it is not that easy to get an abortion, depending on the State in question.

I was also quite surprised to see the USA at the top, as religious extremists, who are usually by definition against women's rights, hold quite a bit of influence in many states.

Not so much Sweden, as it is known as a liberal country.


So why do some countries have high abortion rates?

More sexual freedom leading to unwanted pregnancies?

Many couples not being in either a financial or emotional position to have a child?

Women abandoned by their partners when a pregnancy is confirmed?

Women placing careers before children?

Lack of stigma attacked to abortion?

Too many children in the family already?

Abortions being used as birth control?

The assumption is: Abortions are relatively freely available in the first place.


In countries with lower abortion rates:

Contraception not freely available?

Contraception freely available and widely used?

Sex is only for procreation?

A repressive/restrictive society for women?

Religious beliefs?

Abortions difficult to obtain?


If Roe vs Wade is overturned in the USA, and some of those other laws are implemented, then I fear the USA is going to turn in a modern-day version of The Handmaid's Tale.

I don't think I've read that book but I did rent out the vhs 1990 film thinking it might be a bit raunchy, it was probably a great film but I was too busy skipping through...I do remember robert duvall as the bad guy but that's about it

I don't know all the aspects of this issue; I'm a conservative who's just going by my gut instinct on right and wrong really.

It is a moral mindfield. But if conservative states decide they don't want it going on under their roof as it were, that should be respected, it's part of democracy. The US is a union of states, different to individual nations that have 1 rule for all.

 

[ladyhawke]

Thing is that if R states ban both contraception and abortion there will be a humongous rise in unwanted (teen) pregnancies. Now if they can't even get an abortion out of state there'll be "underground" clinics again where the chance of women dying while getting an abortion are a shitload higher than when done by a doctor in a professional setting.

And then I haven't even touched on the fact when the decision is made to keep the baby. Will they give the child up for adoption or will it perhaps suffer mental and/or physical abuse because it's unwanted? What about the mothers (or parents) mental wellbeing?

For a party that's all about freedom this is just all very strange.

I am beginning to believe that many men simply do not understand that quite a few - if not most - women do NOT come through a pregnancy physically unscathed. Or in the worst case, mentally unscathed, e.g. postpartum depression.

But this is what they want to force women of all ages who, for whatever reason have an unwanted pregnancy, to endure.

These draconian anti-abortion laws will turn a drought of babies available for adoption into a veritable deluge, so will supporters of these laws also offer their support to the thousands and thousands of unwanted babies that will, in all probability, linger unwanted in orphanages for the rest of their youth?

There seems to be a rosy-coloured view that if a woman is forced to have an unwanted baby, irrespective of the circumstances, she will love it and keep it anyways. That is so far from the truth it is laughable.

 

[mack341]

My bad, the list did not start there.
I just scrolled down so i could include our neighbours Norway&Denmark

This is from the top. (this is the site i looked at:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

)

View attachment 167686

I would've thought Russia being number 1 in abortions would be enough to put off lots of americans; interesting the leading countries were all communist in recent history.

 

[ladyhawke]

I would've thought Russia being number 1 in abortions would be enough to put off lots of americans; interesting the leading countries were all communist in recent history.

Could that have anything to do with the lower standard of living in these countries? In Russia, if you are not one of the elite, you are more than likely to be desperately poor.

 

[mack341]

Could that have anything to do with the lower standard of living in these countries? In Russia, if you are not one of the elite, you are more than likely to be desperately poor.

True, also perhaps lack of free contraception, if you don't see a future for yourself [scraping by etc..] then hard to want to bring a baby into that situation.

I get the sense in the US they've basically had an abortion free for all, late and for shallow type reasons...'oh I don't fancy it now' or I've broken up with billyboy, that's got conservative backs up over the years, and irresponsible types that will have multiple abortions, that could be my misinterpretation, but also some of the protesters give off a bad vibe, screeching manically like toddlers who can't get their own way.

 

[Nowunimportant]

It's not even close, Inflation, Border, Crime all up, up, up under the current administration.

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Not to mention some law clerk leaking the SCOTUS draft on the controversial abortion issue (roe v. wade), will the riots start?

Perhaps we should focus on creating solutions instead of spending all of our time blaming one another.

I'm talking about the country in general not specifically you btw

 

[slotplayer]

Perhaps we should focus on creating solutions instead of spending all of our time blaming one another.

True, but the reason there are no solutions is they would not have anything to run on.

 

[slotplayer]

True, also perhaps lack of free contraception, if you don't see a future for yourself [scraping by etc..] then hard to want to bring a baby into that situation.

I get the sense in the US they've basically had an abortion free for all, late and for shallow type reasons...'oh I don't fancy it now' or I've broken up with billyboy, that's got conservative backs up over the years, and irresponsible types that will have multiple abortions, that could be my misinterpretation, but also some of the protesters give off a bad vibe, screeching manically like toddlers who can't get their own way.

At first glance I didn't think US at the top of the list was right, its still a somewhat conservative country. Mexico has the least so I'm not so sure its purely based on economic conditions.