UK Conservative Party Leadership Election

[dunover]

So wokeism and political correctness will also disappear if everything changes over time?

Apparently not -

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Roald Dahl's books are to be printed in their original form, following criticism of the decision to amend novels including The BFG, making them more suitable for modern audiences.
The plan to remove references to things like characters' appearance and weight had sparked a fierce debate.
Words including "fat" and "ugly" were removed after being reviewed by sensitivity readers, who check for potentially offensive content.
Puffin will now sell the originals.

Now what the absolute FUCK is a 'sensitivity reader'??? Who appoints them? Who even fucking asks them to read things? Is @ChopleyIOM one? What power do these fuckwits wield in regard to their seemingly unchallenged censorship? Who pays the twats? Aside from dyed-in-the-wool libtards, Hackney Council and the antiBBC, who actually takes any notice of them?

So if I go and order a coffee, instead of being asked "black or white" the barista will now ask:

"Do you want one thats ingredients absorb all light wavelengths visible to the human eye, or do you want one whose ingredients reflect all light wavelengths visible to the human eye?"

 

[goatwack]

Apart from those seeking out old works, and trying to actively find anything 'problematic' within them, and retrograding them based on today's sensibilities, the heads of these cultural institutions have lost their objectivity a long time ago.

Imposing their world views on classic literature is just a defence against being seen not to do anything, as then, they'd be complicit in publishing hateful prose you see.

The fact that the overwhelming silent majority don't even care about these matters, and will see Dahl's writings as 'of the time', much like Blyton's or whoever else, Tolkien et al, means that thankfully it's much ado about nothing.

And with that, Puffin have opted to publish the amended and original versions in unison, which is about the greatest concession you'll get out of them, and seems 'fair enough'. Though still, I doubt very much there's any people truly offended by the original transcript. But rather, people with nothing better to do than deconstruct everything that's culturally significant.

Because how long before the 'replacement' wording becomes a problem, and is thusly revised? I give it five years, tops

 

[dunover]

I am off to read Ten Little Niggers. After which I shall wind down with Noddy & Big Ears and read the one where poor Noddy is carjacked by the two golliwogs in the woods. Then I'll watch a couple of Sooty & Sweeps followed by some Love Thy Neighbour. Then it's bedtime with some Ovaltine after which I shall eat my smuggled Black Jacks under the covers.

During the night I will no doubt be woken by the door going in, uniformed men charging up the stairs with batons drawn, dropping rainbow ribbons everywhere as they forcibly section me to a secret thought-correction facility in a disused underground station. There I will be forced to watch BBC news, BRIT award ceremonies and sign a statement saying the heavy metal and rock music I own is really black music, all attributable to blues artists back in the 1940's and that Mo Farah was not an illegal immigrant and clearly won all 29 gold medals for GB at the London Olympics. After checking the next day to see if I remember all that correctly, I will sign a form stating I'm gay or pre-op and will be released back to my family under license with an ankle tag.

 

[Kroffe]

I'll remember that, lets have turnip paste on my pizza bases if no tomato, or cheese and turnip sarnies, perhaps add some turnip puree to my bolognese or chilli. I'd rather eat one of her butts.

Also, why is there more than one?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Human car-crash Theresa Coffey taking no prisoners in her apparent disdain towards the working classes, or just......anyone struggling with the over-inflated Cost of Living crises.

Short of Cameron's telling pensioners to put on another jumper, this surely makes the Top 5 of Tory-led sound bites of the last 13 years....

(In relation to rising food bills) 'potentially to work some more hours, to get upskilled, to get a higher income'
Ok, that's sorted then. Thanks Theresa!

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The useful thing about individuals such as Coffey is that she makes the terrible mistake (for them) of telling you what a lot of rich Tories really think about everyone else just trying to live normal lives and get by in incredibly harsh economic circumstances.

Remember, you'll get the chance to vote this shower of bastards out in under two years.

Coffey herself isn't particularly wealthy by Tory front bench standards, although her personal wealth is estimated to be a few million quid, so she won't be worrying about the price of electricity or food, or indeed, have to 'work more'. (By all accounts she doesn't work much now, being laughably out of touch with the brief of her cabinet position.)

 

[goatwack]

"That's not necessarily a Business failure"

 

[ChopleyIOM]

After thirteen years in power, and thirteen years of failure, you've certainly got to admire Johnson's brass neck to come out with this.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

We're so blessed to have saint Therese advise us, I will be doing a weekly shop at some point soon and will now stock up on turnips, stupid me I didn't realise they were the ideal replacement for tomatoes or lettuce.

Meanwhile in Finland.

And Ukraine.

 

[mack341]

Meanwhile in Finland.

And Ukraine.

View attachment 180265

Just a reminder that the entire pop of Finland is 3 million less than London. I think it could be the uk's supermarket's buying power [where they can negotiate hard on price] that then sees them last in line when there is a shortage.

Kherson who knows - possibly tomatoes, peppers etc... from greece or turkey via romania? They're not in the EU so membership not a factor just distance from outdoor growers [not greenhouses affected by energy costs].

Edit: I have noticed in my sainsburys that about half of the tomatoes are now sourced from Morocco, the rest netherlands or uk in season, rarely you see spanish or canary islands - though I always prefer those in winter as they seem to have more taste than dutch greenhouse grown ones.

Could it be that after Brexit more produce was permitted from morocco or tariffs were removed, on the map it is virtually a hair's breadth from spain so don't know if moroccan produce was tariff free into the EU.

 

[dunover]

Meanwhile in Finland.

And Ukraine.

View attachment 180265

Great visual parody, but at least the author could have used a turnip which is different from the swede pictured. Turnip is white inside, that looks yellowy-orange and very like the swede we make swede and carrot mash with at Christmas.

Regardless, the Finland shop image shows much fruit, the same as I saw in my local supermarket today, plenty of oranges, pears, apples, bananas etc. If you could point out where all the tomatoes, broccoli, cucumber, cauliflower etc. is? I mean the Ukraine, NON-EU has it!

Or is it another famous @chopley copy-and-paste half-truth?

Incidentally, have 6 tomatoes, a shrinkwrapped cucumber and 2x fresh broccoli in fridge right now. Maybe my local supermarket hasn't been earmarked for the 'propaganda pics' to feed to doom merchants?

I assume the Isle of Moan has got similar shortages to the UK and has had them well before we did in recent days? Not being in the EU, surely it must have experienced similar shortages for years before the UK Brexit referendum? I mean, we all know Brexit absolutely means no winter cucumbers and tomatoes.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Great visual parody, but at least the author could have used a turnip which is different from the swede pictured. Turnip is white inside, that looks yellowy-orange and very like the swede we make swede and carrot mash with at Christmas.

Regardless, the Finland shop image shows much fruit, the same as I saw in my local supermarket today, plenty of oranges, pears, apples, bananas etc. If you could point out where all the tomatoes, broccoli, cucumber, cauliflower etc. is? I mean the Ukraine, NON-EU has it!

Or is it another famous @chopley copy-and-paste half-truth?

Incidentally, have 6 tomatoes, a shrinkwrapped cucumber and 2x fresh broccoli in fridge right now. Maybe my local supermarket hasn't been earmarked for the 'propaganda pics' to feed to doom merchants?

I assume the Isle of Moan has got similar shortages to the UK and has had them well before we did in recent days? Not being in the EU, surely it must have experienced similar shortages for years before the UK Brexit referendum? I mean, we all know Brexit absolutely means no winter cucumbers and tomatoes.

Ahh the famous 'It's not happening where I am so it mustn't be real' dunover paradise. There were tomatoes on sale in my local Shoprite this morning, albeit not that many and they were £2.50 for six. Fake news, or something.

What I find slightly fantastical, and indeed truly fascinating about this conversation, is that after thirteen years of Tory rule, a Tory Brexit and now three years properly out of the EU including transition, we're arguing about root vegetables and what's available, and hey at least we've still got fruit even if it's still hard to get tomatoes.

A question that popped into my head earlier today, as I was looking at the £2.50 for six tomatoes in Shoprite - is what is one single thing that you can point to and say the Tories have made better?

They've had thirteen years in power now, so if they're any good at this 'party of government' business, there must be at least one thing you can definitively and objectively point to and say, 'Yep, that's some good shit right there, and it's thanks to the Tories'. (New Labour for example, for all their many faults, objectively left the NHS in a far better state than when they came to power.)

As Brexit continues to crash and burn and pollute everything around it, making the UK poorer and poorer by the day, and the Tory government remains utterly paralysed by its own incompetence and corruption, ravaged by infighting and fratricide as the country they are supposed to be leading sinks into increasing failure and despair, I'll politely ask you to name me one significant thing they've made better since 2010.

 

[goatwack]

I don't think six Shoprite tomatoes at £2.50 is indicative of a Brexit failure. And anyway, we were always playing ketchup as it is (ahem)

 

[mack341]

Ahh the famous 'It's not happening where I am so it mustn't be real' dunover paradise. There were tomatoes on sale in my local Shoprite this morning, albeit not that many and they were £2.50 for six. Fake news, or something.

What I find slightly fantastical, and indeed truly fascinating about this conversation, is that after thirteen years of Tory rule, a Tory Brexit and now three years properly out of the EU including transition, we're arguing about root vegetables and what's available, and hey at least we've still got fruit even if it's still hard to get tomatoes.

A question that popped into my head earlier today, as I was looking at the £2.50 for six tomatoes in Shoprite - is what is one single thing that you can point to and say the Tories have made better?

They've had thirteen years in power now, so if they're any good at this 'party of government' business, there must be at least one thing you can definitively and objectively point to and say, 'Yep, that's some good shit right there, and it's thanks to the Tories'. (New Labour for example, for all their many faults, objectively left the NHS in a far better state than when they came to power.)

As Brexit continues to crash and burn and pollute everything around it, making the UK poorer and poorer by the day, and the Tory government remains utterly paralysed by its own incompetence and corruption, ravaged by infighting and fratricide as the country they are supposed to be leading sinks into increasing failure and despair, I'll politely ask you to name me one significant thing they've made better since 2010.

I wouldn't say things have got better during the 13 years, doesn't really feel that long either, but just got me thinking when the tories came in they inherited the financial position post Quantitative Easing [debt] and even had to carry it on. Then we had the libya conflict followed by syria creating a migrant/refugee crisis; a year of referendum talk and canvassing; four years of battles and infighting in parliament. Then covid for two years, followed by ukraine.

The macro economic position for new labour was much kinder in 97, but by the time 2008 came knocking they'd blown all the household funds, so that was not great stewardship of the economy.

 

[goatwack]

The 13 years feels both long ago and 'not', when broken down in pieces, I concur.

Who can forget that the country was swimming in budget deficits starting in 2010, and not easing up until around 2018 or so. It was finally looking like things were on the up but constantly beset by problems from all sides.

Years of Brexit uncertainty, followed by Covid and everything else in between did actually make me believe that post-2008 respite was never going to be achieved. So for all their many mishaps and internal squabbles, the Tories' 13-year stretch has not been short of external interference, with quite a few monkey wrenches thrown in.

That's not to say their record is blemish-free, with surely many things that could have been handled much better no doubt, but to attribute 13 years' of Tory rule solely as the reason for the country's ills would seem unrealistic. And yet, the record books will only show that fact, that they were in sole charge. That's a cross they just have to bear I'm afraid!

 

[dunover]

I think people should examine in more detail the @ChopleyIOM doom-monging stuff. So we see an image of empty racks where tomatoes and cucumber was. Now I hate tomatoes, (mildly allegic to raw tomato) and cucumber is 98% water and has bugger-all nutritional value, you may as well get a bottle of water than buy one. There was a time where many fruits and veg. were seasonal, I remember as a kid. So you didn't get strawberries in winter, sprouts in summer, big potatoes when it was 'new potato' season etc.

Now, at great environmental cost and carbon unfriendly most definitely, we expect every possible item 24/365. So this involved big amounts of energy using poly tunnel heating, transportation and storage etc. And woe betide the shops or administration if we don't get it.

So, back to these 'doom pics'. What I notice is that they never have a time stamp. No context. This reminds me of the bog roll shelves pics when Covid began. The store would open with plenty (there was NEVER a shortage!) and panic buyers would strip them out. Cue the doom-pics of bog roll armageddon, taken when the halfwits had bought them all, same with rice, pasta etc. So it's vital to know the whole truth - were these doom pics, so beloved of neggers like chopley, taken at store opening time or AFTER the halfwits had stripped the shelves panic buying? Very important distinction there. Alas the mass pleb psychology has meant many people will buy them in panic, regardless of whether they will actually eat them or not, I'd guess a great mass of this food will be binned and unused ultimately. Same as people are chucking old packets of flour, pasta etc. out right now that they hoarded when Covid started.

Unfortunately bad news sells, when things aren't going well there's nothing more the neggers like than spreading their pessimism, misery and dissatisfaction far and wide, revelling in their own self-importance at dispensing their 'news' and views, hoping they've spread a little unhappiness. Every democracy has this fifth column, consisting of those which like to erode the structure of society, foment dissent and negativity while doing nothing at all themselves to help society or make things better. Kind of like the Statler and Waldorf characters in The Muppets, creating nothing but only too willing to hack away at the work of others.

 

[goatwack]

Well fear not, today's the day when Sunak really really gets Johnson's oven-ready deal done, much to the annoyance of Churchill-lite, and many of his own MPs who aren't too appreciative of these amendments potentially being bounced through Parliament!

Using the EU's very own ideas from years ago, expect Red Lanes and Green Lanes until the cows come home, and everyone is duly confused, with the ECJ's reach and DUP's full approval likely to be the main contentions....

Is the EU Ready4Rishi?.....

 

[Webzcas]

A question that popped into my head earlier today, as I was looking at the £2.50 for six tomatoes in Shoprite - is what is one single thing that you can point to and say the Tories have made better?

A very good question, of which the answer to it I would be afraid to ask ChatGpt in helping, for fear of causing it to short circuit and then subsequently turn into Skynet or something as a result, unleashing Terminator type robots on the human race.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well fear not, today's the day when Sunak really really gets Johnson's oven-ready deal done, much to the annoyance of Churchill-lite, and many of his own MPs who aren't too appreciative of these amendments potentially being bounced through Parliament!

Using the EU's very own ideas from years ago, expect Red Lanes and Green Lanes until the cows come home, and everyone is duly confused, with the ECJ's reach and DUP's full approval likely to be the main contentions....

Is the EU Ready4Rishi?.....

There's a certain irony in an unelected Prime Minister, sitting down with an unelected King and a senior EU Commissioner to decide how the people of Northern Ireland will be governed.

So much control taken back! No more pesky EU bureaucrats having any say over what happens in the UK!

We're beyond satire at this point and into the realms of farce.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I wouldn't say things have got better during the 13 years, doesn't really feel that long either, but just got me thinking when the tories came in they inherited the financial position post Quantitative Easing [debt] and even had to carry it on. Then we had the libya conflict followed by syria creating a migrant/refugee crisis; a year of referendum talk and canvassing; four years of battles and infighting in parliament. Then covid for two years, followed by ukraine.

The macro economic position for new labour was much kinder in 97, but by the time 2008 came knocking they'd blown all the household funds, so that was not great stewardship of the economy.

So I'll take that as a 'No' then mack, you can't name me one thing that the Tories have made better during their thirteen years in power.

As for all the other stuff you list, yes, that's literally what governments exist for, to cope with shit that's going on in the world whilst looking after their own country and the people who live there, and hopefully making things better for them, something the Tories have failed spectacularly to do. (Unless you're rich, the rich have done very well over the last thirteen years.)

If a toddler is trying to make a chocolate cake and instead they just faceplant into the mixing bowl and get a face covered in chocolate, we'll say, 'Awww bless, at least he's trying his best'. Governments don't get off that easy, the Tories have fucked it, big time, and they need to be called out for it - because all this shit is on them.

 

[mack341]

So I'll take that as a 'No' then mack, you can't name me one thing that the Tories have made better during their thirteen years in power.

As for all the other stuff you list, yes, that's literally what governments exist for, to cope with shit that's going on in the world whilst looking after their own country and the people who live there, and hopefully making things better for them, something the Tories have failed spectacularly to do. (Unless you're rich, the rich have done very well over the last thirteen years.)

If a toddler is trying to make a chocolate cake and instead they just faceplant into the mixing bowl and get a face covered in chocolate, we'll say, 'Awww bless, at least he's trying his best'. Governments don't get off that easy, the Tories have fucked it, big time, and they need to be called out for it - because all this shit is on them.

The only thing you could point to, from labour's long reign, was the NHS improved [and there was plenty of nhs scandals during this time as well, let it be noted].

However as we all know the macro economic position was far kinder, in 97 new labour inherited a surplus from ken clarke and the conservatives and when they left office handed back a deficit. All the benefit of the economic growth from mobile phones, broadband internet etc and all they achieved was a temporary reduction in nhs waiting lists.

'Made better' probably not at the moment but then I think in terms of how woke labour, obsessed with gesture politics, would carry on for 13 years, sometimes what you avoid has a value in itself.

 

[cncas2123]

One thing they did well was keep Corbyn and his cronies away from Downing Street. That in itself is worth having them in power for another 13 years.
Let’s face it , it doesn’t matter who is in government they will always look after their own and try and buy votes. I don’t really give a flying f**k who taxes me, I know I’m going to get taxed but as long as Corbyn, a terrorist supporter who still espouses crap and still won’t say it’s Russia’s fault for the situation in Ukraine was kept out of power that’s enough to vote Tory for life if I could.

 

[goatwack]

Hot off the press! Brexit is finally done!

And Ursula Van Damme even gets to do some sightseeing, as well as meet our PR King!

 

[cncas2123]

Here’s what those nice labour MP’s and their luvvy friends will give you.

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[ChopleyIOM]

Hot off the press! Brexit is finally done!

And Ursula Van Damme even gets to do some sightseeing, as well as meet our PR King!

Credit where it's due this is a step in the right direction and Sunak deserves some praise for getting it over the line. It does rather expose where Brexit is as a whole now though, insofar as we're basically just left trying to fix its most damaging aspects, no pretence there's any good stuff anymore, just slowly trying to repair the massive damage it's caused, piece by piece. The logical conclusion to this, of course, is that we'd have been far better off never doing it in the first place - but hey, we all know that already because we've got, y'know, functioning eyes and brains.

It also exposes the utter and complete lie of Johnson's 'oven ready deal' and 'getting Brexit done', he did no such thing, he just threw NI under the bus and called the job a good'un.

The ironic thing here is that NI is actually in a better spot than the rest of the UK, as it has easy access to both EU and UK markets, something businesses up and down the UK would give their right arm for. (And is also why investment in NI is rising substantially, it's in a uniquely advantageous position compared to the rest of the UK.)

We'll be sweeping up the Brexit shit for years and years, decades even, but at least we've made a start.

 

[mack341]

I await John redwood's and frosty's verdict on rishi's new deal, though the smiling EU faces & bbc glee doesn't forbode well. Power is all they seek and they're prepared to throw us a few minor favours within the uk's actual own borders if that buys it.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I await John redwood's and frosty's verdict on rishi's new deal, though the smiling EU faces & bbc glee doesn't forbode well. Power is all they seek and they're prepared to throw us a few minor favours within the uk's actual own borders if that buys it.

So which bit of the new arrangement aren't you happy with then?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The difference between Sunak and Johnson is that Sunak is at least mostly connected to reality, and therefore deals with the subject at hand on that basis, unlike Johnson, who just lies about everything.

Compare and contrast the two of them....

EDIT - Let's not get too carried away, this is, at its core, sweeping up some of the mess that Brexit created in the first place, and that wouldn't exist at all without Brexit, and lest we forget Northern Ireland voted against Brexit, because a majority of the people living there understood what a fucking mess it would be for them.

However, that doesn't negate the fact that this is decent achievement for Sunak, that was clearly way out of reach of either Johnson or Truss.

 

[goatwack]

It does appear that six months of negotiations have paid off, with the only thing left to do is to let bemused MPs digest the 'Windsor Agreement', and wave goodbye to the N.I Protocol. I'd imagine the DUP to accept this deal too, surely?

Still trying to see the negatives thus far, it seems to have blown Johnson's deal right out of the water, other than the ECJ still having the 'final say' on any arbitrary decisions, from initial viewing it looks like quite the coup.

Worth noting von der Leyen's demeanour towards Sunak, almost an example of how good things can be achieved when you take away the tub-thumping and bravado. Perhaps it'll pave the way for future co-operation on other matters going forward, one can hope!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Perhaps it'll pave the way for future co-operation on other matters going forward, one can hope!

Yes maybe even an, ooohhh I dunno, a 'union' of some kind

 

[mack341]

Replace Noel with Rishi and I think there could well be a turd in the box with this proposed new deal on the table!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Replace Noel with Rishi and I think there could well be a turd in the box with this proposed new deal on the table!

What is it you don't like? I'm no fan of the Tories (you can probably tell....) but Sunak has, in fairness, done a decent job here. None of the pointless aggressive showboating, bullshit, empty threats and inflammatory language of the likes of Johnson and Truss, just a solid job of doing what a politician is supposed to do, which is getting shit sorted out without constantly shouting about how great you are and how awful the EU is.

He's done better on the NI situation than anyone has managed since the referendum (and arguably before that....) back in 2016, and for that you've got to give him credit.

Mind you, and as I noted yesterday, the rest of the UK business community has a pretty solid cause to complain when they say, 'Hang on, we'd quite like the arrangement that NI has, thanks very much'.

 

[mack341]

All of this because the EU is concerned about illegal imports going into the republic of Ireland, northern Ireland has to be welded to the EU, it's bonkers, but if the loyalist community are happy with this 'windsor' framework that's good enough for me.

I'm sure the EU see it as back channel to influence the future policy and law which the uk parliament makes, because basically one part of the union has to comply with EU regs even though the majority of its trade is with the rest of the uk, so there is going to be an internal pressure for the whole not to diverge [from EU law] so as not to disrupt that. [my layman's interpretation]

 

[ChopleyIOM]

All of this because the EU is concerned about illegal imports going into the republic of Ireland, northern Ireland has to be welded to the EU, it's bonkers, but if the loyalist community are happy with this 'windsor' framework that's good enough for me.

I'm sure the EU see it as back channel to influence the future policy and law which the uk parliament makes, because basically one part of the union has to comply with EU regs even though the majority of its trade is with the rest of the uk, so there is going to be an internal pressure for the whole not to diverge [from EU law] so as not to disrupt that. [my layman's interpretation]

Why is it bonkers? That's literally the EU protecting its borders, which as I'm sure you'll recall, was one of the major selling points of Brexit itself from a UK perspective. (Although admittedly the EU has made a substantially better job of it than the UK has.)

EU protecting its borders = Bonkers.

UK protecting its borders = TAKING BACK CONTROL, GETTING BREXIT DONE.

It's inevitable that we're going to get closer to the EU over time, it's the only way to repair the massive economic damage that Brexit has caused to the UK, and at least Sunak is pragmatic enough to realise that, and competent enough to negotiate with the EU as a friend and partner as opposed to a tantrum-throwing bullshit machine adversary.

Still, the cat is rather out of the bag now, and even the meanest of intellects will be able to see that NI is better off than the rest of the UK because it has access to the EU Single Market in a way that the rest of the UK doesn't.

Now that this has been sorted out by actual grown-ups and is codified into a new, written, legally binding agreement, expect NI to do very well for investment over the next few years, because as Dishy Rishi said himself, they're in a uniquely advantageous economic position.

The ERG and associated headbangers are a spent force now, even the DUP know they're becoming increasingly irrelevant, they'll fall into line. There's no love for Brexit left in the the UK now, a consistent majority of people think it was a mistake and would reverse it if they could. And that's what's going to happen, bit by bit, piece by piece.

Pictured below, Rishi and NI to the rest of the UK.

 

[mack341]

Why is it bonkers? That's literally the EU protecting its borders, which as I'm sure you'll recall, was one of the major selling points of Brexit itself from a UK perspective. (Although admittedly the EU has made a substantially better job of it than the UK has.)

EU protecting its borders = Bonkers.

UK protecting its borders = TAKING BACK CONTROL, GETTING BREXIT DONE.

It's inevitable that we're going to get closer to the EU over time, it's the only way to repair the massive economic damage that Brexit has caused to the UK, and at least Sunak is pragmatic enough to realise that, and competent enough to negotiate with the EU as a friend and partner as opposed to a tantrum-throwing bullshit machine adversary.

Still, the cat is rather out of the bag now, and even the meanest of intellects will be able to see that NI is better off than the rest of the UK because it has access to the EU Single Market in a way that the rest of the UK doesn't.

Now that this has been sorted out by actual grown-ups and is codified into a new, written, legally binding agreement, expect NI to do very well for investment over the next few years, because as Dishy Rishi said himself, they're in a uniquely advantageous economic position.

The ERG and associated headbangers are a spent force now, even the DUP know they're becoming increasingly irrelevant, they'll fall into line. There's no love for Brexit left in the the UK now, a consistent majority of people think it was a mistake and would reverse it if they could. And that's what's going to happen, bit by bit, piece by piece.

Pictured below, Rishi and NI to the rest of the UK.

View attachment 180316

So the only way to protect their border is for countries next door to be forced into adopting their regulations?

It might be the best least worst option, but the EU seem awfully happy compared to the DUP, when really should that be the case?

Leyen hasn't had one member of the public vote for her, whereas the DUP have been directly elected, that's an important distinction.

Whether we like it or not as a country we're in competition with others for exports, the EU want to limit that ability rather than help us.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So the only way to protect their border is for countries next door to be forced into adopting their regulations?

It might be the best least worst option, but the EU seem awfully happy compared to the DUP, when really should that be the case?

Leyen hasn't had one member of the public vote for her, whereas the DUP have been directly elected, that's an important distinction.

Whether we like it or not as a country we're in competition with others for exports, the EU want to limit that ability rather than help us.

Ahhh come on mack, she was elected by a majority of MEPs, who were elected by the electorate in their own country, the same MEPs we used to have, elected by the British electorate, before we threw our toys out of the pram and said screw you guys I'm going home, like a red, white and blue Cartman. (Plus if we're getting into unelected power territory, we could always have a look at our own House Of Lords, where Russian stooge Lebedev currently resides thanks to Johnson's patronage....)

Have you ever considered that folks in the EU might actually be our friends, and want to get on with us, and want to co-operate with us? In a world where Russia has literally invaded another sovereign state just one year ago, with other major geopolitical tensions and stresses, and China not exactly being warm and fuzzy either, maybe all us European countries should be getting on together as best we can, and perhaps that's what Sunak and Leyen are going for?

The DUP have, quite frankly, been the world's biggest idiots when it comes to Brexit, not only blowing their own feet off, but then shitting in the bloody stumps and then using them to try to eat their dinner with, and then wondering why their dinner tastes of shit - I don't think we should give too much credence to anything they do or say, since they've proven themselves to be incompetent to an almost otherworldly degree.

There's a very good piece about that here -

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[dunover]

Why is it bonkers? That's literally the EU protecting its borders, which as I'm sure you'll recall, was one of the major selling points of Brexit itself from a UK perspective. (Although admittedly the EU has made a substantially better job of it than the UK has.)

EU protecting its borders = Bonkers.

UK protecting its borders = TAKING BACK CONTROL, GETTING BREXIT DONE.

It's inevitable that we're going to get closer to the EU over time, it's the only way to repair the massive economic damage that Brexit has caused to the UK, and at least Sunak is pragmatic enough to realise that, and competent enough to negotiate with the EU as a friend and partner as opposed to a tantrum-throwing bullshit machine adversary.

Still, the cat is rather out of the bag now, and even the meanest of intellects will be able to see that NI is better off than the rest of the UK because it has access to the EU Single Market in a way that the rest of the UK doesn't.

Now that this has been sorted out by actual grown-ups and is codified into a new, written, legally binding agreement, expect NI to do very well for investment over the next few years, because as Dishy Rishi said himself, they're in a uniquely advantageous economic position.

The ERG and associated headbangers are a spent force now, even the DUP know they're becoming increasingly irrelevant, they'll fall into line. There's no love for Brexit left in the the UK now, a consistent majority of people think it was a mistake and would reverse it if they could. And that's what's going to happen, bit by bit, piece by piece.

Pictured below, Rishi and NI to the rest of the UK.

View attachment 180316

He wouldn't even win the MK1 Fiesta on that show. EU rule 03:1/29/3.4 clearly states that the throwing of pointed projectiles within 10m of a third party is forbidden unless:
*Full liability insurance is taken out.
*Body armour is supplied to all contestants.
*A bullet-proof perspex screen is erected in between contestants and any scorers or live audience.

*That if contestants from the UK win any international contests on a regular basis then it must:
a) be declared a non-sport
b) not receive more than 10% of aggregate prize funding from EU states
c) not be shown on TV whether free or paid in any EU countries
d) EU contestants may not participate in any prize-funded tournaments
e) Public houses where the door and oche cross both sides the N.I./Eire border will not offer any such contests
f) EU-branded lagers or beverages may not be consumed in any such contests.

 

[dunover]

Ahhh come on mack, she was elected by a majority of MEPs, who were elected by the electorate in their own country,

You flaming two-faced hypocrite. Talk about disingenuous.

Let me remind you of a line from YOUR post yesterday:

UK Conservative Party Leadership Election - Page 49 - Casinomeister Forum

"There's a certain irony in an unelected Prime Minister, sitting down with an unelected King and a senior EU Commissioner to decide how the people of Northern Ireland will be governed."

Let me remind you of a fact:

Sunak was elected by a majority of Con. MP's who were elected by the electorate in their own country. Same as you stated above in response to @mack341 for dear Ursula....

But that's OK then?

Got yourself in rather a big pickle there ol' chap!

*Cue 3 paragraphs of self-justification waffle from @ChopleyIOM as to why one is different from the other, instead of doing the correct thing and acknowledging he's fucked-up and contradicted himself*

 

[ChopleyIOM]

You flaming two-faced hypocrite. Talk about disingenuous.

Let me remind you of a line from YOUR post yesterday:

UK Conservative Party Leadership Election - Page 49 - Casinomeister Forum

"There's a certain irony in an unelected Prime Minister, sitting down with an unelected King and a senior EU Commissioner to decide how the people of Northern Ireland will be governed."

Let me remind you of a fact:

Sunak was elected by a majority of Con. MP's who were elected by the electorate in their own country. Same as you stated above in response to @mack341 for dear Ursula....

But that's OK then?

Got yourself in rather a big pickle there ol' chap!

*Cue 3 paragraphs of self-justification waffle from @ChopleyIOM as to why one is different from the other, instead of doing the correct thing and acknowledging he's fucked-up and contradicted himself*

It's reasonably straightforward, Ursula Gertrud von der Leyen was elected via the standard and accepted process to the position of the President of the European Commission, and whilst Sunak is technically in post according to the rules, he's now two Prime Ministers away from anyone who actually voted for him in a general election, which is highly unusual.

But fine, if you want to claim this as a gotcha moment then knock yourself out, what dunover thinks about ChopleyIOM on the CM forums really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, what matters is that the inexorable process of the UK moving ever closer back to the EU has begun, and it's a one-way street, it's only ever going to go one way.

This is where the Brexity crowd are stood now, and that sand will melt away, melt away, and melt away. Do a few hops and join us all back on solid ground in the real world, where Rishi Sunak has at least decided to conduct government from.

 

[cncas2123]

@dunover didn’t you realise it’s ok to have the EU president elected by a few hundred but not the UK Prime Minister elected by the due process of the Conservative Party?

 

[dunover]

@dunover didn’t you realise it’s ok to have the EU president elected by a few hundred but not the UK Prime Minister elected by the due process of the Conservative Party?

The thing is, dear Ursula isn't even an MEP so has not been elected by any normal citizens, anywhere, directly or indirectly. Good ol' choppers, keep on digging...

 

[mack341]

what matters is that the inexorable process of the UK moving ever closer back to the EU has begun, and it's a one-way street, it's only ever going to go one way.

So basically you agree with me about what the EU is getting from this, rishi's windsor deal is a stitch up and not what the public intended when they voted out. More of an oven ready deal for remainers.

If the analysis in the spectator is true it's worse than I anticipated from this conservative govt, what looked like a small deal to fix problems with the mainland sending NI goods is a much larger slippery slope, Rishi going massively down in my books, and my first impressions of him being correct, no wonder the establishment wanted rid of Boris [not perfect, has his faults].

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So basically you agree with me about what the EU is getting from this, rishi's windsor deal is a stitch up and not what the public intended when they voted out. More of an oven ready deal for remainers.

If the analysis in the spectator is true it's worse than I anticipated from this conservative govt, what looked like a small deal to fix problems with the mainland sending NI goods is a much larger slippery slope, Rishi going massively down in my books, and my first impressions of him being correct, no wonder the establishment wanted rid of Boris [not perfect, has his faults].

It's going to happen whoever's in charge, Labour or Tory, Dishy Rishi or Starmer, we're in the orbit of the EU and to pretend otherwise is a nonsense, Brexit was a fracture in the natural order of things, but it will be fixed in time, we are always going to be closest, literally and figuratively to those we are closest to geographically - and that's the EU.

Like a broken bone, eventually it will heal.

The other countries of Europe are our natural friends and allies, our closest trading partners, and those we will stand together with against the real baddies, such as Russia - it's just a question of time. Brexit will, over time, be diminished and ultimately reversed. Those who wanted it in the first place will get old and die, and a new generation will make a different choice, as is their right.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So basically you agree with me about what the EU is getting from this, rishi's windsor deal is a stitch up and not what the public intended when they voted out. More of an oven ready deal for remainers.

Also, as it occurred to me whilst I was fishing in Red Dead Redemption 2 last night (I didn't catch anything impressive, maybe Arthur Morgan got the same shit deal that the UK's fishermen did out of Brexit), how do you know what the public voted for?

The public weren't asked if they wanted to leave the Single Market and Customs Union, but that's what they got. The public weren't asked if they wanted to put a border down the Irish Sea, but that's what Johnson gave them, whilst lying massively about it. ('Over my dead body', as you'll recall.) The public weren't asked if they thought the UK should leave the Dublin Regulation, which means it's now much harder to send asylum seekers back to France, but that's what they got. The public weren't asked if they wanted to blow a permanent 5% hole in the UK's GDP, but that's what Brexit has done.

The public were just asked 'Should the UK leave the European Union?', it was as wide-open and nebulous as that, so seven years down the line, when Sunak fixes some of the worse aspects of Johnson and Frost's deal, you can't say 'This isn't what the public voted for' - because they were never asked that question in the first place.

The Brexiteers have had their chance, and they screwed the pooch, all their promises crumbled to dust, there were no Brexit wins, no Brexit benefits, no sunlit uplands, nothing but failure and decline. Now it's time for the grown-ups to have a go.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I await John redwood's and frosty's verdict on rishi's new deal, though the smiling EU faces & bbc glee doesn't forbode well. Power is all they seek and they're prepared to throw us a few minor favours within the uk's actual own borders if that buys it.

This guy?

 

[goatwack]

He may have been unsuited, underqualified and handed posts beyond his remit, oblivious to his own shortcomings.

And yet, whether true or not, he's seen fit to, and is self-aware enough to list his current standing and title as 'Pillock of the Realm'

 

[mack341]

This guy?

View attachment 180326

Yep that's the man, and he was right about the covid issues.

For all its faults Twitter allows folk to publish their thoughts, frost and redwood are on there and use it that way, but many conservative MPs don't, it's just a contact page or place for local constituency news and pics.

He's likely to have an opinion on this, also I heard on the news the ERG have asked a panel of legal experts to study the details of this deal.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yep that's the man, and he was right about the covid issues.

For all its faults Twitter allows folk to publish their thoughts, frost and redwood are on there and use it that way, but many conservative MPs don't, it's just a contact page or place for local constituency news and pics.

He's likely to have an opinion on this, also I heard on the news the ERG have asked a panel of legal experts to study the details of this deal.

Of all the people whose opinions should be disregarded when it comes to Brexit, I'd put Frost right at the top of the list, he's basically the High Priest of Buffoonery at this point, and as has been very well documented (including in Private Eye as per above), basically ran away from his massive fuck-up and has been blaming everyone else for the consequences of his own actions ever since, including taking a very well paid job at the Torygraph to endlessly explain how none of it was his fault honest guv'nor.

Frost is like the tiresome drunk down the local boozer, who'll endlessly opine to anyone and everyone who dares to come close to him how he would have been endlessly brilliant if the entire world hadn't conspired against him.

Meanwhile, Sunak has achieved more in a few months than Frost has managed in his entire political career.

(To be clear, I still don't like Sunak or the Tories, at all, but what's been achieved here is still quite impressive.)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The political bravery and integrity of Johnson once more comes to the fore.

And to think this was the guy who managed to win a general election because he would 'get Brexit done'.

The only variable now is how long it will take for Brexit to get undone.

 

[goatwack]

I think it's fair to say people are rather 'Brexit-weary' and would likely want some form of respite from the poodle-yapping calls to have a 'Bre-entry' anytime soon!

I'd think this will be generational, so I wouldn't expect any seismic pro-EU shifts for at least 15 to 20 years, surely

 

[mack341]

Possibly one for wtf!