UK Conservative Party Leadership Election

[ChopleyIOM]

I agree this is not about fighting inflation, but I think it is partly about protecting the banks, the money they lent out for mortgages had more buying power than the money being repaid, it is hard on the folk with big mortgages but will also 'correct' to some degree the inflated cost of housing moving forward. Swings and roundabouts long term.

Agree re the water firms, they're taking the piss [literally] and with them being foreign owned [french in the main?] I don't see why we need to be so obliging, afaik firms in france have more restrictions on what they can do in terms of pushing up prices and sacking employees etc..they're getting an easy ride here in old blighty.

On your other post regarding the highest cost housing in the western world, I think you need to [finally] accept reality in terms of one of the negative effects of large amounts of immigration.

Nearly everything that Thatcher (and later Tory governments) flogged off has ended up in foreign hands. You can say what you want about the old UK nationalised industries (and for sure, they had their problems), but at least they were British owned! It would have been far better to reform them whilst keeping them as UK assets for the benefit of the British population, but instead they've ended up being owned abroad. So you end up with the remarkable situation whereby UK energy customers pay massive bills to the French owners who then use that money to reduce bills for French people in France!

As for housing costs, the problem is we haven't built enough new housing, not immigration. We need immigration, the UK's indigenous population is getting old and not having enough babies, you can't run a society with a load of pensioners. (We have exactly the same problem on the IOM, but the government here is openly committed to increasing the population from 84,000 to 100,000 over the next fifteen years.)

 

[paul7388]

Nearly everything that Thatcher (and later Tory governments) flogged off has ended up in foreign hands. You can say what you want about the old UK nationalised industries (and for sure, they had their problems), but at least they were British owned! It would have been far better to reform them whilst keeping them as UK assets for the benefit of the British population, but instead they've ended up being owned abroad. So you end up with the remarkable situation whereby UK energy customers pay massive bills to the French owners who then use that money to reduce bills for French people in France!

As for housing costs, the problem is we haven't built enough new housing, not immigration. We need immigration, the UK's indigenous population is getting old and not having enough babies, you can't run a society with a load of pensioners. (We have exactly the same problem on the IOM, but the government here is openly committed to increasing the population from 84,000 to 100,000 over the next fifteen years.)

Okay might as well ask your opinion again.

You say the population is getting older and that's why we need immigration as country can not run itself.

Here is the problem with a lot of immigration. Many do not even make the effort to learn English. They come to the country and have no wishes to integrate with society in any way. They have to be housed, given benefits and have interpreters paid for for every single thing they need . So how can that possibly be of any benefit to the country in any way. Its just a burden on an overstretched country as it is.

Fine if you bring immigrants In to the country that are skilled or willing to integrate and become a part of society.

Let's face it I am sure when IOM brings in the 16,000 needed to get population up they will not be non English speaking immigrants that will bring nothing at all to your Island .

 

[dunover]

Okay might as well ask your opinion again.

You say the population is getting older and that's why we need immigration as country can not run itself.

Here is the problem with a lot of immigration. Many do not even make the effort to learn English. They come to the country and have no wishes to integrate with society in any way. They have to be housed, given benefits and have interpreters paid for for every single thing they need . So how can that possibly be of any benefit to the country in any way. Its just a burden on an overstretched country as it is.

Fine if you bring immigrants In to the country that are skilled or willing to integrate and become a part of society.

Let's face it I am sure when IOM brings in the 16,000 needed to get population up they will not be non English speaking immigrants that will bring nothing at all to your Island .

Nearly everything that Thatcher (and later Tory governments) flogged off has ended up in foreign hands. You can say what you want about the old UK nationalised industries (and for sure, they had their problems), but at least they were British owned! It would have been far better to reform them whilst keeping them as UK assets for the benefit of the British population, but instead they've ended up being owned abroad. So you end up with the remarkable situation whereby UK energy customers pay massive bills to the French owners who then use that money to reduce bills for French people in France!

As for housing costs, the problem is we haven't built enough new housing, not immigration. We need immigration, the UK's indigenous population is getting old and not having enough babies, you can't run a society with a load of pensioners. (We have exactly the same problem on the IOM, but the government here is openly committed to increasing the population from 84,000 to 100,000 over the next fifteen years.)

So what happens when these alien migrants to the Isle of Moan (many of whom churn out kids like Russian dolls because you will pay them to) all want doctors, houses, school places, roads, transport and other services?

Ah yes! Concrete and tarmac over the place! Of course! What price do you then put on overcrowding, integration failure and resulting lack of general happiness and quality of life? Immigration is nothing but a sticking plaster with dire consequences further down the line, same as printing money is in times of economic need.

What happens in a few generations when these people all get old themselves? Bring in more and more using that as justification, further exacerbating the issues in the first paragraph above...brilliant!

Don't you look at the UK? The schisms and division in society this policy has caused, as well as (again) issues mentioned in paragaph 1. The overcrowding, loss of quality of life, loss of green space, crammed-in future-slum high-density new housing.

Then of course we have the easy excuse to allow more of the native population to opt-out of work either 'sick' or 'depressed' or simply idle while the immigrants theoretically fix the shortfall and this removes need for the government to make tough decisions to reduce the vast 4-5 million people on long-term sick or unemployment.

So what has happened in the UK, and WILL thus happen in the Isle of Moan is an increase in population, a growth therefore in overall GDP headline figure (which the decision-makers and their useful idiots will crow about) while the product PER HEAD of population stagnates or slowly falls as has occurred here.

So taking the UK as an example, we have 68m people, 4-5 million not participating in the labour force and about 30m who are.

In the years to come, we will have 70m people, still about 30.5 million or so participants but another million or so opted out of working.

Therefore income per head will at best stagnate, or decrease as it has done here.

For someone who constantly criticises the government and Brexit for short termism and patching things up, you certainly advocate the same train of thought yourself.

 

[mack341]

Nearly everything that Thatcher (and later Tory governments) flogged off has ended up in foreign hands. You can say what you want about the old UK nationalised industries (and for sure, they had their problems), but at least they were British owned! It would have been far better to reform them whilst keeping them as UK assets for the benefit of the British population, but instead they've ended up being owned abroad. So you end up with the remarkable situation whereby UK energy customers pay massive bills to the French owners who then use that money to reduce bills for French people in France!

As for housing costs, the problem is we haven't built enough new housing, not immigration. We need immigration, the UK's indigenous population is getting old and not having enough babies, you can't run a society with a load of pensioners. (We have exactly the same problem on the IOM, but the government here is openly committed to increasing the population from 84,000 to 100,000 over the next fifteen years.)

I was watching a video on utube which showed copenhagen [in winter] it was empty and this is not in lockdown, so much space and room, they have a high standard and quality of life. The population of england and wales was 32 million in 1901 [census] and folk had large families in those days, lots of industry and a large empire to administer. Lots of immigration doesn't solve anything, in fact the opposite, but it's a left wing sacred cow. I suspect IOM will thoroughly vet everyone of the annual 1,000 potential arrivals.

I mostly agree on the first paragraph, not only silly to see these profits sent across to france but being unable to reform and run our own essential services was a sign of weakness as a country too.

BT has been a success but then they did have a monopoly on telephone services for a long time so money for investment was likely not a problem, if it had been kept with the post office the profit from one could've subsidised the less profitable other, and the post office branches replacing banks we're losing in the high street.

 

[goatwack]

Sacked sycophant and Boris superfan Nadine Dorries 'interviewing' her old flame Bojo on her new, erm, talkshow? called....Talk TV?

I haven't subjected myself to this piece of powerful pop culture as of yet, but you can be sure it'll be the most nauseating slice of television you'll see all of 2023, to those who still watch television that is!

In this informal chat, we hear him talk about quadbikes, his (many) offspring, and hot topics like who he'd rather be stuck in a lift with out of Sturgeon or Starmer. Hey wait a minute - this sounds dope!

Unconfirmed rumours state that a man on the IoM has watched this several times in his bedsit, before emergency services had to pull him away from the screen as he shouted "Brexit. Man.....did....Brexit....GARY..... Inflation. Perestroika!"

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[ChopleyIOM]

Okay might as well ask your opinion again.

You say the population is getting older and that's why we need immigration as country can not run itself.

Here is the problem with a lot of immigration. Many do not even make the effort to learn English. They come to the country and have no wishes to integrate with society in any way. They have to be housed, given benefits and have interpreters paid for for every single thing they need . So how can that possibly be of any benefit to the country in any way. Its just a burden on an overstretched country as it is.

Fine if you bring immigrants In to the country that are skilled or willing to integrate and become a part of society.

Let's face it I am sure when IOM brings in the 16,000 needed to get population up they will not be non English speaking immigrants that will bring nothing at all to your Island .

So what happens when these alien migrants to the Isle of Moan (many of whom churn out kids like Russian dolls because you will pay them to) all want doctors, houses, school places, roads, transport and other services?

Ah yes! Concrete and tarmac over the place! Of course! What price do you then put on overcrowding, integration failure and resulting lack of general happiness and quality of life? Immigration is nothing but a sticking plaster with dire consequences further down the line, same as printing money is in times of economic need.

What happens in a few generations when these people all get old themselves? Bring in more and more using that as justification, further exacerbating the issues in the first paragraph above...brilliant!

Don't you look at the UK? The schisms and division in society this policy has caused, as well as (again) issues mentioned in paragaph 1. The overcrowding, loss of quality of life, loss of green space, crammed-in future-slum high-density new housing.

Then of course we have the easy excuse to allow more of the native population to opt-out of work either 'sick' or 'depressed' or simply idle while the immigrants theoretically fix the shortfall and this removes need for the government to make tough decisions to reduce the vast 4-5 million people on long-term sick or unemployment.

So what has happened in the UK, and WILL thus happen in the Isle of Moan is an increase in population, a growth therefore in overall GDP headline figure (which the decision-makers and their useful idiots will crow about) while the product PER HEAD of population stagnates or slowly falls as has occurred here.

So taking the UK as an example, we have 68m people, 4-5 million not participating in the labour force and about 30m who are.

In the years to come, we will have 70m people, still about 30.5 million or so participants but another million or so opted out of working.

Therefore income per head will at best stagnate, or decrease as it has done here.

For someone who constantly criticises the government and Brexit for short termism and patching things up, you certainly advocate the same train of thought yourself.

It's going to be difficult, no doubt about it, but the consequence of doing nothing is inevitable failure, it can't end any other way if we do nothing, so the only credible option is to try and do something, despite the risks and struggles that will involve.

The IOM has negative unemployment, there are far more job vacancies than there are unemployed people, our unemployment rate is 0.7%, and of that small number out of work, there are all kinds of legitimate reasons for them not being able to enter the workforce.

To give you an idea of the scale of the problem, here's the current list of job vacancies on the government website -

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So yes, we need people (same as the UK does, let's be clear on that), and in the absence of the locals making out like rabbits, that means, amongst other things, a degree of immigration.

It's all on the government website here -

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And the English language requirements are here -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

No one even remotely thinks this is going to be easy, we're looking at a substantial increase in population and that's going to put extra stress and strain on our infrastructure and services, and is going to need a lot of house building too, but if we don't try, we're just going to die of old age.

So if through Door A is 'guaranteed failure' and through Door B is 'a difficult path but it might work out', you're going to have to choose Door B, aren't you?

 

[mack341]

I'm actually starting to prefer [cautiously mind you] Sunak's less attention seeking approach, it feels like he is taking the job more seriously rather than being distracted thinking about the next social event he's attending.

Regarding the often quoted view immigrants are needed for care homes to care for the elderly, it's actually nice for the elderly to have a carer or nurse they can relate to rather than someone shipped in from bulgaria, the congo or far east. Stop treating care homes like a business that needs to be profitable.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'm actually starting to prefer [cautiously mind you] Sunak's less attention seeking approach, it feels like he is taking the job more seriously rather than being distracted thinking about the next social event he's attending.

Regarding the often quoted view immigrants are needed for care homes to care for the elderly, it's actually nice for the elderly to have a carer or nurse they can relate to rather than someone shipped in from bulgaria, the congo or far east. Stop treating care homes like a business that needs to be profitable.

Let's check our history books and find out when care homes were changed into profit-making enterprises instead of being an essential public service.

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.

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.

Private sector involvement in the long-term care market began in the 1980s; it was one of the first targets for outsourcing of public services to the private sector.

In 1990 the

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restructured councils as 'enabling authorities' as opposed to care providers. Councils were required to spend 85% of their funding on purchasing care services from the private sector.

A report from the

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(CHPI) in late 2016 states that "the vast majority of both home care and residential care in England is now provided by private companies." Around 72% of the adult social care workforce are now employed by the private or voluntary sectors with only 14% still employed by local authorities.

As for Sunak, I'm hard-pushed to think of anything he's actually achieved in his first 100 days. I guess we should be thankful he didn't hand-grenade the UK economy like Truss did, but in terms of forward progress, what's he done?

 

[mack341]

Let's check our history books and find out when care homes were changed into profit-making enterprises instead of being an essential public service.

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.

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.

Private sector involvement in the long-term care market began in the 1980s; it was one of the first targets for outsourcing of public services to the private sector.

In 1990 the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

restructured councils as 'enabling authorities' as opposed to care providers. Councils were required to spend 85% of their funding on purchasing care services from the private sector.

A report from the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(CHPI) in late 2016 states that "the vast majority of both home care and residential care in England is now provided by private companies." Around 72% of the adult social care workforce are now employed by the private or voluntary sectors with only 14% still employed by local authorities.

As for Sunak, I'm hard-pushed to think of anything he's actually achieved in his first 100 days. I guess we should be thankful he didn't hand-grenade the UK economy like Truss did, but in terms of forward progress, what's he done?

BBC today:

The FTSE 100 stock index has closed at a record high, thanks to a fall in the pound and as optimism grows that central banks will slow down recent interest rate increases.

The FTSE closed at 7,901.8 points. Its previous closing high was 7,877.45 in May 2018.

The dollar rallied after strong US jobs numbers, making sterling weaker.

The index on the London Stock Exchange has many firms which export overseas, so a weaker pound helps them.

This is because the goods they export become cheaper for foreign buyers.

The stock market closed more than 1% higher.

---------

This can't be bad news can it?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

BBC today:

The FTSE 100 stock index has closed at a record high, thanks to a fall in the pound and as optimism grows that central banks will slow down recent interest rate increases.

The FTSE closed at 7,901.8 points. Its previous closing high was 7,877.45 in May 2018.

The dollar rallied after strong US jobs numbers, making sterling weaker.

The index on the London Stock Exchange has many firms which export overseas, so a weaker pound helps them.

This is because the goods they export become cheaper for foreign buyers.

The stock market closed more than 1% higher.

---------

This can't be bad news can it?

I'd be inclined to turn that question on its head and ask who it's good news for?

The FTSE100 is a very internationally focused index so it's done well off the back of the continuing weakness of the pound and the fact it's fallen in the last few days, off the back of very strong US numbers and the likes of Shell posting $40bn in annual profits.

So yes, if you've got cash in stocks and shares then woohoo I guess, but it's not going to be helping anyone with their energy bills, or taxes, or food price inflation, or anything else that matters to normal people.

Or in the simplest of terms, rich getting richer.

Even if you are wanting to brand it as 'good news', it's got pretty much nothing to do with Sunak, apart from him not going full kamikaze with the UK's economy like Truss did. You could have literally stuck a three day old cheeseburger in the PM's chair and the UK would have fared better than it did under Truss, so it's not a high bar to cross.

 

[dunover]

It's going to be difficult, no doubt about it, but the consequence of doing nothing is inevitable failure, it can't end any other way if we do nothing, so the only credible option is to try and do something, despite the risks and struggles that will involve.

The IOM has negative unemployment, there are far more job vacancies than there are unemployed people, our unemployment rate is 0.7%, and of that small number out of work, there are all kinds of legitimate reasons for them not being able to enter the workforce.

To give you an idea of the scale of the problem, here's the current list of job vacancies on the government website -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So yes, we need people (same as the UK does, let's be clear on that), and in the absence of the locals making out like rabbits, that means, amongst other things, a degree of immigration.

It's all on the government website here -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

And the English language requirements are here -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

No one even remotely thinks this is going to be easy, we're looking at a substantial increase in population and that's going to put extra stress and strain on our infrastructure and services, and is going to need a lot of house building too, but if we don't try, we're just going to die of old age.

So if through Door A is 'guaranteed failure' and through Door B is 'a difficult path but it might work out', you're going to have to choose Door B, aren't you?

If you believe the propaganda, yes.

So - these unfilled vacancies could simply be advertised in England, person/person with family moves to IoM. On a job-by-job basis or even work permit rather than just blanket-immigrate with thousands of mainly undesirables of which a few good apples could be found, and when they are the lunatics in charge and their supporters can claim 'what a success that was!' while burying their heads afterwards when the vast societal cost becomes apparent. (See the real world like UK/France/Sweden,Germany/Holland or add any other European multicultural paradise you wish.)

And you avoided the cogent question I asked you earlier (as usual) - when these migrants are old in the next decades, how will you solve that? A self-perpetuating ever-increasing cycle of mass immigration, exacerbating the previous issues I mentioned and of which there are plenty of existing examples to look at? When do think that stops? When the whole island is finally concreted over, when the native population have fled? Answer me, as it's a very important question and you appear to be advocating the lunacy of mass immigration, then subsequent immigration as they age and so-on. When in your genius understanding of socio-economics, would a point be reached where no further immigration was necessary?

Imagine an elderly Manxman in years to come, living in another country, grandson on this knee, showing him photos of what his young life was like.

"Yes son, this was the village church where you great grandma and grandad lie, now a mosque. Where those shabby dwellings are, they were pubs and shops I used to go to. That cultural centre was once my infants school, and those high density houses were once fields where my friend farmed. Those apartments on the seafront, thay were once hotels when tourists used to come here for fresh air and beaches to escape the heat of the English summer and spend their money until we were colonized. People used to go out in the evening before it became too dangerous, and we used to have the Tynwald to make our laws and rules before we were outnumbered and had to leave. But it was good for 15 years before it all fell into ruin because we had some more carers and shop assistants..."

 

[ChopleyIOM]

If you believe the propaganda, yes.

So - these unfilled vacancies could simply be advertised in England, person/person with family moves to IoM. On a job-by-job basis or even work permit rather than just blanket-immigrate with thousands of mainly undesirables of which a few good apples could be found, and when they are the lunatics in charge and their supporters can claim 'what a success that was!' while burying their heads afterwards when the vast societal cost becomes apparent. (See the real world like UK/France/Sweden,Germany/Holland or add any other European multicultural paradise you wish.)

And you avoided the cogent question I asked you earlier (as usual) - when these migrants are old in the next decades, how will you solve that? A self-perpetuating ever-increasing cycle of mass immigration, exacerbating the previous issues I mentioned and of which there are plenty of existing examples to look at? When do think that stops? When the whole island is finally concreted over, when the native population have fled? Answer me, as it's a very important question and you appear to be advocating the lunacy of mass immigration, then subsequent immigration as they age and so-on. When in your genius understanding of socio-economics, would a point be reached where no further immigration was necessary?

Imagine an elderly Manxman in years to come, living in another country, grandson on this knee, showing him photos of what his young life was like.

"Yes son, this was the village church where you great grandma and grandad lie, now a mosque. Where those shabby dwellings are, they were pubs and shops I used to go to. That cultural centre was once my infants school, and those high density houses were once fields where my friend farmed. Those apartments on the seafront, thay were once hotels when tourists used to come here for fresh air and beaches to escape the heat of the English summer and spend their money until we were colonized. People used to go out in the evening before it became too dangerous, and we used to have the Tynwald to make our laws and rules before we were outnumbered and had to leave. But it was good for 15 years before it all fell into ruin because we had some more carers and shop assistants..."

I've already acknowledged it's going to bring challenges, no one's going into this with their eyes closed or thinking that immigration is some sort of magical panacea that will fix every problem.

All the information is online, the government updated the strategy in November last year to rework the stuff about population growth following concerns being raised as part of a public consultation. They've actually put more emphasis on making the island more desirable to our young people to stay here, and also started talking more about being more child friendly, addressing the cost of living and housing, and so on.

An ageing population and falling birth rates can't be ignored, you have to do something to address that, immigration can be part of the answer but not the whole answer, and that's what the plan here is - which I'm broadly in support of.

No one's talking about 'concreting the whole island over', so it's hard to answer your question since it's based on an incorrect assumption, essentially concocting an apocalyptic scenario that no one is even remotely advocating for, and then saying AHHH YES BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN THIS HAPPENS EH?

Like I said, all the information is publicly available online.

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[dunover]

I've already acknowledged it's going to bring challenges, no one's going into this with their eyes closed or thinking that immigration is some sort of magical panacea that will fix every problem.

All the information is online, the government updated the strategy in November last year to rework the stuff about population growth following concerns being raised as part of a public consultation. They've actually put more emphasis on making the island more desirable to our young people to stay here, and also started talking more about being more child friendly, addressing the cost of living and housing, and so on.

An ageing population and falling birth rates can't be ignored, you have to do something to address that, immigration can be part of the answer but not the whole answer, and that's what the plan here is - which I'm broadly in support of.

No one's talking about 'concreting the whole island over', so it's hard to answer your question since it's based on an incorrect assumption, essentially concocting an apocalyptic scenario that no one is even remotely advocating for, and then saying AHHH YES BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN THIS HAPPENS EH?

Like I said, all the information is publicly available online.

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None so blind as those who don't want to see eh chopley? To take your mantle regarding Brexit where you relentlessly provide (usally other people's) evidence that it was and is a failure, why don't you employ that mindset to the incontrovertible evidence regarding immigration as a fix? It's like having a tattoo - seems like a good idea at the time, a novelty for a few years before the realization hits that the effects are almost irreversible and should you try, permanent scarring is the result.

As for concreting the island over, that's exactly what WILL happen eventually, because you still haven't answered my deadly serious question about the future, and what will you advocate when all these extra mouths to feed get old themselves? Because your logic will be to plaster over with MORE immigration, so more overcrowding, stress, building and reduction in quality of life. So my assertion of the eventual outcome still stands. You will get the same outcome as here, where the urban areas become overcrowded slums that the native population don't even recognize any more, so they try and escape to more pleasant rural areas with limited housing, which drives up the prices for the locals who live in those communities, whose young then cannot afford to live there and have children there so leave in droves - now isn't that what you just said is EXACTLY what's happening in the IoM? (See Cornwall, parts of Scotland and Wales etc.)

 

[goatwack]

It's no secret that populations age, as the average life expectancy in developed countries increases, and the age demographics 'pyramid' starts becoming rather lopsided.

It's the sort of prediction we've all known about for decades, to the point where even our Geography teacher saw fit to bore us (further) into submission, whilst simultaneously writing off our life chances. Thankyou, Mr Roles!

So what's the Government to do , those in power at any particular time, to ward off economic stagnation and flatlined population growth? The only thing they know best, bring in cheap unskilled labour en masse and bolster figures that way, and simply kick the can further down the road.

The notion that this solves anything long-term have already been debunked and mulled over, and we know that our leaders don't see much beyond their 5-year term, and so will happily pass the problem on.

The population of the UK (imagine: something larger than 70,000) had long plateaued decades prior, and so people were effectively encouraged to settle here, who also had a penchant to create 'larger families', the resultant effects we're seeing now as we still find ourselves with a skills shortage, public sectors at breaking point, and yet people living longer, and the population pyramid ever-expanding.

Problem for us all is our Government's favouring these finite methods, no matter who's in charge, via 'dubious' means, even if that means not getting a handle on unchecked 'arrivals'. Because to them, whether it be Labour, Conservatives or God forbid the Monster Raving Loony Party, this is a good thing, beneficial to them only it seems, as numbers get crunched with wild abandon!

And yet, even with the artificial 'raising' of populations, there'll come a point where in Chopley-speak, they too become a burden, and then their children and so forth. It's an inevitability, something that can't be halted or slowed down, and no quick fix to be had.

Far better then to level-up those already here and accept the inevitable aging demographic, than add short-term solutions that ultimately fix diddly- squat. Or watch on bemusedly as our politicians play their 4-D Chess to the detriment of the people they purport to serve, via something crazy, like, say, an open border policy without end!

 

[mack341]

A lot of our ageing population move or moved to spain, this did not seem to create a panic in spain where they would need lots of other, younger immigrants to serve the needs of these ageing brits?

I suppose a portion of the 1,000 new arrivals to IOM will be indigenous brits anyway, but you're going to need 1,000 job vacancies every year and enough vacant or new dwellings to house them.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

When I first saw this on Twitter this morning, I honestly thought it was a hoax, but having just been to Shoprite to do a bit of shopping, I can confirm this is the actual front page of The Torygraph today.

IT WAS THOSE LEFTY REMOANERS ALL ALONG.

The really funny thing is that Private Eye basically ran this story last year in their 'spoof news' section. Yesterday's satire is today's Torygraph front page.

 

[TheAddict]

You managed to increase the subscriber base outside of the IOM up to 2, maybe even 3. I'm not sure, congrats though. Is there any other parts of it you're responsible for writing, or is it just the spoof section?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

You managed to increase the subscriber base outside of the IOM up to 2, maybe even 3. I'm not sure, congrats though. Is there any other parts of it you're responsible for writing, or is it just the spoof section?

Satire is almost redundant when you've got the current incarnation of the crazed right wing on the loose.

I'm wondering if we're going to get our own UK version of the Tea Party.

 

[cncas2123]

Is the crazed right wing going to be any worse than the loony left that labour is morphing into? Among the latest plans is to give black owned companies preference in government contracts, regardless of whether its value for money? A loony left who is intent on following the SNP in the crazy stance of letting every Tom, Dick(less) and Harry self identify in any way they want? The mask of normality than Sir Keir tries to keep on the face of labour slips from time to time when the loony left tell their cohorts what they really want for the UK if they get their hands on power again.

 

[goatwack]

It's astounding how incorrigible these politicians are, whereby they don't show any semblance of self- accountability or burden of responsibility upon themselves. If something goes in their favour, they bask in their superintendence, but if things go tits-up, then it's always by design!

Liz Truss especially has proven herself to be unfit for any leadership role, both whilst in office, and out, and has effectively played all her cards.

Whatever route she's planned in her head movies towards front-line politics is unlikely to be realized, as she talks the talk, but has been exposed to be weak, not to mention self- delusional, and people have cottoned on to that.

And yet in amongst the musical chairs of British politics, especially the Conservatives, no one's ever really 'finished', and are biding their time in the Sin Bin, waiting to time their return to some governmental post in a vertical swoop.

But as mentioned, the likely only reason the electorate tolerate these sham antics is the weakness of the Opposition, and their ability to subvert whatever's left of the country's 'morality', quite literally willing to wreck any chance of Government for the sake of political correctness. Or rather, whatever's currently trending, no matter how absurd, or how utterly irrelevant in years to come this 'zeitgeist' will appear......

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Is the crazed right wing going to be any worse than the loony left that labour is morphing into? Among the latest plans is to give black owned companies preference in government contracts, regardless of whether its value for money? A loony left who is intent on following the SNP in the crazy stance of letting every Tom, Dick(less) and Harry self identify in any way they want? The mask of normality than Sir Keir tries to keep on the face of labour slips from time to time when the loony left tell their cohorts what they really want for the UK if they get their hands on power again.

Labour hasn't been more centrist than it is now since the Blair years, whatever you may think about the Corbyn era (or Miliband) and his policy suggestions, Starmer has pretty much expunged them all and any of its advocates (including himself, in terms of anything he's proposing, talk about lying your way to the top, I'm no big fan of Starmer, same as was the case for Blair).

Labour's policy on 'black owned companies' winning government contracts is to try and even out a historical structural imbalance, and to bring it back into the realms of a fair game, there are pretty solid stats that show a racial bias in this area, so a level playing field doesn't sound like it should be too much of an intolerable stretch.

I can't get my head around the concept that Starmer is keeping a 'mask of normality' on the Labour Party, off the back of a couple of weeks whereby the Tory Chancellor of the Exchequer was found to be knowingly dodging millions of pounds in tax, and the previous Tory Prime Minister is doing the news rounds saying she was brought down by the 'Left wing economic establishment', and not her batshit economic policies that were so far off the rails even the most dedicated Trotskyist would have said, 'Hang on Liz, you've got to stay vaguely within the realms of the credible' - but yeah, sure, this hypothetical Labour government that doesn't even exist is the real worry here.

 

[dunover]

Labour hasn't been more centrist than it is now since the Blair years, whatever you may think about the Corbyn era (or Miliband) and his policy suggestions, Starmer has pretty much expunged them all and any of its advocates (including himself, in terms of anything he's proposing, talk about lying your way to the top, I'm no big fan of Starmer, same as was the case for Blair).

Labour's policy on 'black owned companies' winning government contracts is to try and even out a historical structural imbalance, and to bring it back into the realms of a fair game, there are pretty solid stats that show a racial bias in this area, so a level playing field doesn't sound like it should be too much of an intolerable stretch.

I can't get my head around the concept that Starmer is keeping a 'mask of normality' on the Labour Party, off the back of a couple of weeks whereby the Tory Chancellor of the Exchequer was found to be knowingly dodging millions of pounds in tax, and the previous Tory Prime Minister is doing the news rounds saying she was brought down by the 'Left wing economic establishment', and not her batshit economic policies that were so far off the rails even the most dedicated Trotskyist would have said, 'Hang on Liz, you've got to stay vaguely within the realms of the credible' - but yeah, sure, this hypothetical Labour government that doesn't even exist is the real worry here.

Basic life lesson chopley - discrimination is discrimination is discrimination. There is no such thing as 'positive' discrimination' as simple maths tells you the balance will be negative for someone else.

It's also been consigned to the bin in most democratic societies for that very reason (see Allenbakke vs. the Regents of the University of California 1976)

So the playing field will not be 'level' as you put it, far from it. Don't you marxist zealots ever learn? It causes more resentment and societal division than we even have now. It ranges from downright unfair dogma to simply patronizing. 'Let's give those poor inadequate blacks a little leg-up as despite 50 years of equality in education, law and society overall they still fail to do this or achieve that, unlike other racial groups..."

So as well as having (IMO wrongly) ethnocentric tags like BLACK Police Officers Association, MOBO and many more for example, as well as having black actors placed in dramas where the location or environment in real life would feature none (just to check boxes and make the numbers up despite this very act making a mockery of the plot or story) now you want favouritism in business? You wonder why there's racsim in society?

If they were bright enough, you'd think the far right (another misnomer by the way!) had created wokeism, political correctness and rules like you advocate, as they can only serve one purpose - to further separate and polarise groups in society. Mind you, the far left is and has always been prone to more illogicality and stupidity and violence than any other political flank.

All I can do is than my lucky stars the majority of the UK populace sees through the nonsense your and your lefty acolytes spout, as election results in the last half century demonstrate.

 

[TheAddict]

Chop probably clapped when they Imposed diversity quotas. Makes perfect sense to limit the productivity of a society by making it harder for the most qualified person to get the job.

Can't believe I'm still reading this garbage. Done with tis one now too

 

[goatwack]

A poll conducted and released today by Redfield and Wilton Strategies suggests that 60% of the electorate crave a General Election within a month and a half, so as for Sunak to prove his credentials with Labour waiting in the wings.

How reliable that poll ultimately is remains to be seen, but I'd wager *many* to have finally settled upon some form of continuity and moderate financial stability, rather than throwing it up in the air and causing more uncertainty pre-2025.

And the general feeling is that whilst there is undeniably much Tory-weariness, voters are still somewhat reticent in going 'Labour all-in', to the point where we might even see another minority Government/ hung Parliament/ coalition, as people monkey-wrench the results with Reform, or whatever party Farage dreams up.....

(source: Labour pensioners and non-voting under-25s)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Basic life lesson chopley - discrimination is discrimination is discrimination. There is no such thing as 'positive' discrimination' as simple maths tells you the balance will be negative for someone else.

It's also been consigned to the bin in most democratic societies for that very reason (see Allenbakke vs. the Regents of the University of California 1976)

So the playing field will not be 'level' as you put it, far from it. Don't you marxist zealots ever learn? It causes more resentment and societal division than we even have now. It ranges from downright unfair dogma to simply patronizing. 'Let's give those poor inadequate blacks a little leg-up as despite 50 years of equality in education, law and society overall they still fail to do this or achieve that, unlike other racial groups..."

So as well as having (IMO wrongly) ethnocentric tags like BLACK Police Officers Association, MOBO and many more for example, as well as having black actors placed in dramas where the location or environment in real life would feature none (just to check boxes and make the numbers up despite this very act making a mockery of the plot or story) now you want favouritism in business? You wonder why there's racsim in society?

If they were bright enough, you'd think the far right (another misnomer by the way!) had created wokeism, political correctness and rules like you advocate, as they can only serve one purpose - to further separate and polarise groups in society. Mind you, the far left is and has always been prone to more illogicality and stupidity and violence than any other political flank.

All I can do is than my lucky stars the majority of the UK populace sees through the nonsense your and your lefty acolytes spout, as election results in the last half century demonstrate.

You keep shouting at those clouds old chap, on current polling something in the region of 65% of the UK electorate will be voting for progressive centre-left parties at the next election, and the remaining 35% will be, in the politest possible terms, 'declining over time'.

This is the thing with history, it changes over time, as today's present becomes tomorrow's history. You can rail against wokeism and political correctness as much as you like (two tags I will happily take as compliments. hence 'insufferable woketard' being part of my custom user title), but neither numbers or time are on your side, the simple weight of demographics will get this one done.

Like it or not folks of our generation are increasingly yesterday's news, we are not the future, we are the past, we are almost certainly closer to the end of our lives than we are the beginning, and it will be left to the young to forge the shape of what is it come, as it should be - and the young are having none of your nonsense. (They quite comprehensively didn't want Brexit, for example.)

I could be wrong here of course, but given that your political predictions basically appear to be the exact opposite of the Midas Touch (the Brexit thread and earlier in this thread provide ample evidence of that, anyone else still championing Truss's psycho economy destroying budget? Or telling us how awesome Johnson's Brexit deal is?), I'd say that if dunover bets heads, go for tails - you'll probably call it right.

 

[mack341]

This is the thing with history, it changes over time, as today's present becomes tomorrow's history. You can rail against wokeism and political correctness as much as you like (two tags I will happily take as compliments. hence 'insufferable woketard' being part of my custom user title), but neither numbers or time are on your side, the simple weight of demographics will get this one done.

So wokeism and political correctness will also disappear if everything changes over time?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So wokeism and political correctness will also disappear if everything changes over time?

Probably not, because what you like to call WOKEISM and POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD and all the rest of it are actually just progressive social attitudes, which as the name implies progress forwards and tend to be a one way street.

In our lifetimes gay people were demonised and vilified just for loving someone of the same sex, I'm old enough to remember the ridiculous and entirely confected moral panic whipped up by toilet paper gutter rags like The Sun, branding gay men as paedophiles and entirely responsible for AIDS (including running stories that only gay men could get it). It seems unthinkable today, and yet in the 1980s, it was a thing.

The LGBTQIA debate will go the same way in time, it won't be up to blokes in their forties and fifties to decide that WOMEN CAN'T HAVE A PENIS (like it's the most important thing in the world, lol), young people have far more progressive attitudes and quite frankly don't give a fuck - and in time the framing of society's attitudes will be up them. This is a good thing. It's progress.

 

[mack341]

Probably not, because what you like to call WOKEISM and POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD and all the rest of it are actually just progressive social attitudes, which as the name implies progress forwards and tend to be a one way street.

In our lifetimes gay people were demonised and vilified just for loving someone of the same sex, I'm old enough to remember the ridiculous and entirely confected moral panic whipped up by toilet paper gutter rags like The Sun, branding gay men as paedophiles and entirely responsible for AIDS (including running stories that only gay men could get it). It seems unthinkable today, and yet in the 1980s, it was a thing.

The LGBTQIA debate will go the same way in time, it won't be up to blokes in their forties and fifties to decide that WOMEN CAN'T HAVE A PENIS (like it's the most important thing in the world, lol), young people have far more progressive attitudes and quite frankly don't give a fuck - and in time the framing of society's attitudes will be up them. This is a good thing. It's progress.

View attachment 179588

View attachment 179589

I had a feeling your history theory would be flexible and only apply to things you don't like e.g. social conservatism

We've had loads of gays and potential ones on tv/culture: larry grayson, russell harty, freddie mercury, cliff richard etc...it was never a big problem, the left and liberals now though want to elevate the issue/fact as one of the most important things on the planet, and also push excesses in behaviour as 'normal'.

 

[goatwack]

Apparently, this is a new concept, whereby young people are idealistic and arrogant enough to believe they know best about everything, up until the moment they grow up, have families, have some life experience, start actively contributing to and paying taxes, whilst no longer of the belief that unicorns will swoop in and and cure the world's ills!

And thus, those people by and large, adopt evermore conservative habits. Who'd have thunk it!

Fact is we're simply seeing the results of self- indulgent Western societies in terminal decay, much like countless other empires and societies before it, nothing to see here, just the simple breakdown of morality and the family unit. To see that as 'progress' is so laughably absurd, as is the notion that people can gender- swap on a whim by donning a wig, and it not being seen as a threat to women's spaces, as an example

Nor is the notion that gay rights haven't already been attained in equal standing to everyone in developed countries, something championed many decades ago through real sacrifice, to get to where we are today. Does anyone even bat an eyelid if they're told someone's gay? No, didn't think so!

But of course all the while 'conveniently' forgetting to mention countries where gay people face real persecution, like, I dunno, being thrown off buildings, and, you know, being forcibly 'transitioned' against their will. Selective omission, don't you think?

To conflate gay rights with those of trans people is actually frighteningly off the mark, as the two aren't even remotely alike, but there you go. Starmer's already pledged his wanting to allow self-identification in future, so I guess it's a case of follow the leader

And further to 'young' people being the future (obvious) and uhm, everyone else being 'the past', I see someone had a bit of a unicorn brain haze.

Those actually of young adult age, working & making decisions, well, they're something called 'the present'. Look it up!

 

[pinnit2014]

Think Goat's just described my previously, very liberal, Dad's trajectory. Starting off as a Steward, working his way up in the trade union's to his later days where, whilst not a complete 180, it wasn't far off. Why? It wasn't that he abandoned his beliefs, per se, but he gained you know, real life experience over the years, looked around and went 'nah, this isn't right' - sure, idealism given way to pragmatism, but tis what it is.

Rather than have a conversation, both sides would rather shoot each other down without listening to what the others have to say (none so apparent in this thread - supposed liberals who are, really, anything but)

 

[mack341]

Think Goat's just described my previously, very liberal, Dad's trajectory. Starting off as a Steward, working his way up in the trade union's to his later days where, whilst not a complete 180, it wasn't far off. Why? It wasn't that he abandoned his beliefs, per se, but he gained you know, real life experience over the years, looked around and went 'nah, this isn't right' - sure, idealism given way to pragmatism, but tis what it is.

Rather than have a conversation, both sides would rather shoot each other down without listening to what the others have to say (none so apparent in this thread - supposed liberals who are, really, anything but)

I was myself between about 18 and 22, the fag end of the tories long rule, didn't mind John Smith but by the time labour won in 97 I was becoming a bit meh and sceptic and wasn't excited about blair winning, more let's wait and see if these labour politicians can actually improve things beyond all the soundbites and hype.

Identity politics and political correctness wasn't really a big part of 90s labour as presented to us the public, though probably it was bubbling away in the fringe groups, and now it is front and centre.

And basically it's pointing the finger at the indigenous british folk making all sorts of accusations or insinuating deep moral fault for not welcoming the 'liberal' changes to society, covering up for any wrongdoing by members of 'ethnic communities' and expanding grievance politics, plus roll in a load of lgbtq excesses, so in the time honoured tradition of dragon's den

 

[paul7388]

What a sad day it will be In politics today with it looking like Sturgeon has took the hint and is going to resign.

Shame as over the last few weeks she has done so much damage to her party i was actually starting to like her lol.

Anyway good riddance .

 

[dunover]

Just been watching this - the poisonous little whinger has almost made me feel sorry for her.

Let hope the press there mess her up by asking if the next leader will be a man or woman lol....

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So inflation is going to come down pretty dramatically over the next couple of months (it's already down a bit this month), when this happens the Tories are going to try and take credit for it, along with the BoE, as proof that their economic medicine is working and they've got a grip on things and we should trust them.

This is a lie.

Inflation will come down because it has to, there hasn't been another pandemic and there hasn't been another war (well, yet....), and there won't be another Brexit either (although one was far too many) - therefore the inflationary shocks from those three events are now priced into inflation, and will start to drop out of the numbers, specifically the war in Ukraine which is coming up to its first anniversary.

Annual inflation is a very crude measure really, it's literally just comparing prices today with prices twelve months ago, so in the absence of any further big inflationary shocks, inflation will fall. It's like if I say I am doing a special weather dance to make average temperatures rise by ten Celsius in the next six months and take credit for it when it happens, when of course it was going to happen anyway, my weather dance makes no difference whatsoever. But Jeremy Hunt will tell you that he is 'FIGHTING INFLATION' and will take credit for it when it happens. Don't be fooled. (To be completely fair, at least Sunak and Hunt have shown themselves not to be demonstrably insane, like Truss and Kwarteng were, so that has helped calm things in other respects, but it's made fuck all difference to inflation.)

The other thing to remember is that even if inflation falls to zero, which it won't, the price rises we've endured over the last few years won't go away, the fall in the value of the pound won't be reversed, we'll still all be worse off, it just means that things will be getting worse at a slower rate than they are at the moment. If Labour had presided over this sort of economic calamity, well, we all know how that'd be going in commentary terms

The economic bellwether that I rely on is CHOPELY'S INCREDIBLE GARLIC BREAD PRICE TRACKER, an infallible mechanism to track how fucked up shit has got.

It's based on this fella here, a Stateside pizza style garlic bread, which I sometimes buy if I'm doing a pasta dish for me and Mrs Chopley. They sell these at Shoprite, and have done for years, and they've always cost exactly £1, a quid. For as long as I can remember they were a quid - bang on the nose.

Well then, last year the price started to rise, and I have been tracking these rises in our Manx Gamers WhatsApp Group.

The first price rise was 25%, to £1.25p. I took a picture of it at the time, this was last March.

And this kept happening, I won't post every picture, you get the idea, but in May for example, it was up to £1.40p.

Fast forward to yesterday morning, and the most recent increase put it at £1.90p.

So in under a year, the price of this basic food item has increased by NINETY PERCENT. And whatever happens to inflation next month and the month after, that price isn't going to go down, best case scenario is it will simply stop going up so fast, I can well imagine it'll be £2 before long, which would mean a 100% price increase. This is banana republic territory, except it's happening right here, on the watch of 'the party of economic competence'.

Ahhh who remembers avoiding 'chaos with Ed Miliband' and the funny way he ate a bacon sandwich LOLS.

 

[mack341]

So inflation is going to come down pretty dramatically over the next couple of months (it's already down a bit this month), when this happens the Tories are going to try and take credit for it, along with the BoE, as proof that their economic medicine is working and they've got a grip on things and we should trust them.

This is a lie.

Inflation will come down because it has to, there hasn't been another pandemic and there hasn't been another war (well, yet....), and there won't be another Brexit either (although one was far too many) - therefore the inflationary shocks from those three events are now priced into inflation, and will start to drop out of the numbers, specifically the war in Ukraine which is coming up to its first anniversary.

Annual inflation is a very crude measure really, it's literally just comparing prices today with prices twelve months ago, so in the absence of any further big inflationary shocks, inflation will fall. It's like if I say I am doing a special weather dance to make average temperatures rise by ten Celsius in the next six months and take credit for it when it happens, when of course it was going to happen anyway, my weather dance makes no difference whatsoever. But Jeremy Hunt will tell you that he is 'FIGHTING INFLATION' and will take credit for it when it happens. Don't be fooled. (To be completely fair, at least Sunak and Hunt have shown themselves not to be demonstrably insane, like Truss and Kwarteng were, so that has helped calm things in other respects, but it's made fuck all difference to inflation.)

The other thing to remember is that even if inflation falls to zero, which it won't, the price rises we've endured over the last few years won't go away, the fall in the value of the pound won't be reversed, we'll still all be worse off, it just means that things will be getting worse at a slower rate than they are at the moment. If Labour had presided over this sort of economic calamity, well, we all know how that'd be going in commentary terms

The economic bellwether that I rely on is CHOPELY'S INCREDIBLE GARLIC BREAD PRICE TRACKER, an infallible mechanism to track how fucked up shit has got.

It's based on this fella here, a Stateside pizza style garlic bread, which I sometimes buy if I'm doing a pasta dish for me and Mrs Chopley. They sell these at Shoprite, and have done for years, and they've always cost exactly £1, a quid. For as long as I can remember they were a quid - bang on the nose.

Well then, last year the price started to rise, and I have been tracking these rises in our Manx Gamers WhatsApp Group.

The first price rise was 25%, to £1.25p. I took a picture of it at the time, this was last March.

View attachment 180012

And this kept happening, I won't post every picture, you get the idea, but in May for example, it was up to £1.40p.

View attachment 180013

Fast forward to yesterday morning, and the most recent increase put it at £1.90p.

View attachment 180014

So in under a year, the price of this basic food item has increased by NINETY PERCENT. And whatever happens to inflation next month and the month after, that price isn't going to go down, best case scenario is it will simply stop going up so fast, I can well imagine it'll be £2 before long, which would mean a 100% price increase. This is banana republic territory, except it's happening right here, on the watch of 'the party of economic competence'.

Ahhh who remembers avoiding 'chaos with Ed Miliband' and the funny way he ate a bacon sandwich LOLS.

Afaik high inflation is systemic in europe currently, I believe the lockdowns and related expenditure is the biggest culprit, we would be in the same state [or worse] if labour had held the reins.

However the package of help would probably look different and possibly a tax levied on energy firms, but the first would still have to be paid for and the tax is not without risk in terms of energy producing firms then doing negative things to off-set or avoid it.

I'm quite partial to sharwood's mango chutney, used to hover around the £1.50 mark and now my sainsburys want £3.50 a jar! All that will happen is I have to buy own brand or wait for an offer and bulk buy enough to see me out for 12 months.

Have the price of mangoes shot up or is it the energy/staffing costs, but then why hasn't the [uk made] own brand shot up also.

I would suspect inflation is a bit higher on the iom in independent style smaller shops, whereas tescos etc [if you have them] will probably keep prices in line with their mainland ones.

 

[goatwack]

Yes, it's ludicrous just how far retailers are pushing it with their disproportionate price gouging. Just frequenting my post-gym Tesco Direct usually leaves me a broken man, if not simply completely pauperized!

We're past the doom-laden prophetic scenarios that may have resulted in temporary price increases, as propagated by the media, and seized upon by greedy businesses with dollar signs in their eyes.

We're simply at the end of the elastic band's tension, and they're seeing how much further they can push prices because they can, no one's holding anyone to account and because most need these things. As in the case of Energy companies, they'd either go bust, merge with another company or post record profits at our expense. Why waste a good opportunity to make more money?

Though I'd imagine when that breaking point is reached, people are likely to forego 100% pizza pisstake profiteering and simply not buy them marked up to that extent, or shop elsewhere, or improvise with some culinary DIY. Pisstaking pizza profiteer will magically lower their prices again and competition thrives, as all look to get your custom (a good thing).

I see that Boris is looking to really screw Sunak over as he chimes from the sidelines about reneging on the 'great' NI Protocol he Frankensteined, as his Brexit legacy gets deconstructed, and Sunak looks to renegotiate the legislation with the EU! Expect Boris to abseil in waving British flags in about a year, promising to Deliver Brexit For The People II

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Afaik high inflation is systemic in europe currently, I believe the lockdowns and related expenditure is the biggest culprit, we would be in the same state [or worse] if labour had held the reins.

However the package of help would probably look different and possibly a tax levied on energy firms, but the first would still have to be paid for and the tax is not without risk in terms of energy producing firms then doing negative things to off-set or avoid it.

I'm quite partial to sharwood's mango chutney, used to hover around the £1.50 mark and now my sainsburys want £3.50 a jar! All that will happen is I have to buy own brand or wait for an offer and bulk buy enough to see me out for 12 months.

Have the price of mangoes shot up or is it the energy/staffing costs, but then why hasn't the [uk made] own brand shot up also.

I would suspect inflation is a bit higher on the iom in independent style smaller shops, whereas tescos etc [if you have them] will probably keep prices in line with their mainland ones.

The problem is the UK government handing about £700bn to the rich since the start of Covid and not being remotely interested in getting any of it back. That's an incredibly inflationary thing to do. (Of course there are other inflationary pressures as well.)

As for prices on the IOM, you might be surprised, we do have a Tesco here and for major brands there's really not much difference in price between Tesco and Shoprite, where you can save money at Tesco is buying their own brand stuff, which TBH I find very hit and miss. There is no brown sauce that's as nice as HP Sauce, for example, so I refuse to buy anything else.

TBH I find M&S is a better bet, you pay a bit more than Tesco but their stuff is a lot nicer, and you get to flirt with wealthy old ladies who are looking for a bit of rough. Tesco is full of pushy yob types, I don't like it in there.

Anyway, here's GARY explaining about the £700bn.

 

[pinnit2014]

Anyone buying their meat in Tesco's deserves an 'Ultimate Gambler' of the year award in the CM awards. Not that it could be horse - that would be an improvement on what they serve up there.

M and S's position of being a good food provider is a pretty genius marketing regime - their packaging looks better than most, they rely on word of mouth more to big them up but their products are of better quality to back it up.

 

[mack341]

The problem is the UK government handing about £700bn to the rich since the start of Covid and not being remotely interested in getting any of it back. That's an incredibly inflationary thing to do. (Of course there are other inflationary pressures as well.)

As for prices on the IOM, you might be surprised, we do have a Tesco here and for major brands there's really not much difference in price between Tesco and Shoprite, where you can save money at Tesco is buying their own brand stuff, which TBH I find very hit and miss. There is no brown sauce that's as nice as HP Sauce, for example, so I refuse to buy anything else.

TBH I find M&S is a better bet, you pay a bit more than Tesco but their stuff is a lot nicer, and you get to flirt with wealthy old ladies who are looking for a bit of rough. Tesco is full of pushy yob types, I don't like it in there.

Anyway, here's GARY explaining about the £700bn.

I'm not a big fan of tescos, agree regarding their own brand can taste ropey though I did do a small shop there last friday and bought a few own label items like cheese. There were teenage kids mucking around, others pushing around e-scooters, zombie style trolley merchants, one guy just stood staring perplexed at the bottles of oil thus blocking me from getting to any. No eggs apart from £3 a box for six type. And staff stacking products in the drink's aisle having a very vocal barney at each other.

As the no1 supermarket, in terms of sales, they could do better in terms of quality, for a long while they were crap in the 80s [def. behind sainsburys] and then slowly reinvented themselves with the supersize out of town stores and dudley moore's chicken advert.

I visit the same store a couple of times a year, and if you take any year from 2005 - 2015 to now they've gone backwards, definitely trimming their offering. Shops tell you something about the larger economic picture, it was expanding before and optimistic and now it's in a shrinkage phase.

Our local M&S closed last year and sounds silly but it does affect the consumer quality of life aspect to lose it, their prices were competitive too so in terms of 'get what you pay for' better value.

 

[pinnit2014]

I'm not a big fan of tescos, agree regarding their own brand can taste ropey though I did do a small shop there last friday and bought a few own label items like cheese. There were teenage kids mucking around, others pushing around e-scooters, zombie style trolley merchants, one guy just stood staring perplexed at the bottles of oil thus blocking me from getting to any. No eggs apart from £3 a box for six type. And staff stacking products in the drink's aisle having a very vocal barney at each other.

As the no1 supermarket, in terms of sales, they could do better in terms of quality, for a long while they were crap in the 80s [def. behind sainsburys] and then slowly reinvented themselves with the supersize out of town stores and dudley moore's chicken advert.

I visit the same store a couple of times a year, and if you take any year from 2005 - 2015 to now they've gone backwards, definitely trimming their offering. Shops tell you something about the larger economic picture, it was expanding before and optimistic and now it's in a shrinkage phase.

Our local M&S closed last year and sounds silly but it does affect the consumer quality of life aspect to lose it, their prices were competitive too so in terms of 'get what you pay for' better value.

Aside from M and S, and at the risk of sounding a bit middle class (and Labour supporters arming their rifles at you for, you know, having taste), once you start going local in terms of produce (proper local, not backed up by a large company), you really notice then difference in the crap served up by most large supermarkets. It's not the cheapest option and you need to do more trips though.

Tesco and Asda are by far the worst in quality.

Same as their fruit and veg - most go: oh that's a long date, the rest will go: how many preservatives have they shoved in that for a BB date of 2025

 

[goatwack]

Ok so it's agreed: the worst-kept secret in grocery shopping history is that M & S are the shizz that leave all others trailing in their wake!

Not actually that pricey, when looking at the quality offered for a quid or two more being exponentially superior, whilst also having a 'budget' range that puts others to shame. Case in point, their own-brand baked beans @50p, urinating from a great height on the supposed bean kingpins like Heinz (shite) and Branston (better, but in a state of terminal decline).

Given that we shop exclusively at Ocados these days, it used to be that they had a partnership with Waitrose, before ditching them peasants and tag- teaming with Marks & Sparks. After initially fearing price murder, turns out they haven't changed anything (Ocado's own range is pretty good too it must be said)

I try and avoid the likes of Tesco when I can, and stopped using their home delivery many moons ago. To be fair it's a miracle if an item isn't missing, or the driver doesn't complain about something or other. One guy was four hours late one time!

We managed to complete the transaction without uttering a word. He'd just stare mostly at the floor, and I think I started to follow suit when I realized that parlez had left the building. Pretty sure he was stoned too, but we do what we must ?

Only reason I even flit in and out anywhere near a Tesco is because there's one, well, about 15ft from the gym. So I'll go in there for what I can scramble together, but of course am continuously 'surprised' at their pricing model, i.e winging it. And yes, the visit's not complete unless there's at least one drunk guy in there. And who can forget the other day, when some fellow thought that the baccy he'd been sold was TOO DRY, and so ensued much packet-swapping, until he left a happy camper!

Today was better though, just had the one female member of staff essentially bobsleigh her trolley along in what is a fairly restricted aisle, so it's not all bad

 

[dunover]

Ok so it's agreed: the worst-kept secret in grocery shopping history is that M & S are the shizz that leave all others trailing in their wake!

Not actually that pricey, when looking at the quality offered for a quid or two more being exponentially superior, whilst also having a 'budget' range that puts others to shame. Case in point, their own-brand baked beans @50p, urinating from a great height on the supposed bean kingpins like Heinz (shite) and Branston (better, but in a state of terminal decline).

Given that we shop exclusively at Ocados these days, it used to be that they had a partnership with Waitrose, before ditching them peasants and tag- teaming with Marks & Sparks. After initially fearing price murder, turns out they haven't changed anything (Ocado's own range is pretty good too it must be said)

I try and avoid the likes of Tesco when I can, and stopped using their home delivery many moons ago. To be fair it's a miracle if an item isn't missing, or the driver doesn't complain about something or other. One guy was four hours late one time!

We managed to complete the transaction without uttering a word. He'd just stare mostly at the floor, and I think I started to follow suit when I realized that parlez had left the building. Pretty sure he was stoned too, but we do what we must ?

Only reason I even flit in and out anywhere near a Tesco is because there's one, well, about 15ft from the gym. So I'll go in there for what I can scramble together, but of course am continuously 'surprised' at their pricing model, i.e winging it. And yes, the visit's not complete unless there's at least one drunk guy in there. And who can forget the other day, when some fellow thought that the baccy he'd been sold was TOO DRY, and so ensued much packet-swapping, until he left a happy camper!

Today was better though, just had the one female member of staff essentially bobsleigh her trolley along in what is a fairly restricted aisle, so it's not all bad

I hate beans with stupid little sausages in. Alas, rest of household like them. Now Morrisson's baked beans are quite nice. 39p for a big can, £1.39 for a multiplack 4 cans. Their big cans with sausages 85p. So one week no beans with sausages. Seems Branston don't do them, no C&B ones. So with sense of impending doom looked over to the blue Heinz section - they had them, but little 210g half-cans. ONE POUND FUCKING 39!!!!! I almost urinated on the spot. I was 'lucky' in that I could get 3 of the bastards for £3.00 'saving' me £1.17 lol....

So you're telling me two products using identical haricot beans, almost identical constituent-sauce in them (bar a few flavour tweaks) and presumably the same sausages (no need to be different if they're soaked in bean juice, will always taste the same) are properly priced so one is literally pro-rata 2-3x more expensive? BOLLOCKS. Profiteering, was glad Tesco called Heinz out on this.

As for @Chopley's rather pointless example, I have a similarly pointless one. My favourite spread, Primula tube cheese with ham, was either £1.00 or £1.50 (depending on whether ASDA had it priced at £1 on the day and Morrissons matched them.) So after the inflation surge, it was £1.39 when 'cheap' and sometimes £1.89 (at which point I refused to pay it and bought Dairylea or one of those Cathedral City cheddar spread tubs for about £1.) Yesterday I paid £1.25 for it, which is the average price it was BEFORE this rampant food inflation.

As as result of savvy shopping, our fornightly 'big shop' which was around £130 before the hikes is now about £140, about 8% higher.

The garlic bread and and beans examples are simple profiteering, nothing less. If a 79p product requires a 10% price rise, it would be 87p pro-rata. But there seems to be 'rounding up' so it becomes 90p or even 99p all of a sudden. You mugs EXPECT price increases, hey we'll deliver for you!!!!!!!! The stores simply rely on consumer inertia and the fact most people will happily follow their shopping routine even if they walk out of the store each visit with bloodstains on the seat of their jeans.

In my example about the Primula they try it on - when it's £1.89, you notice the trays are full of it, few are gone. When, like yesterday, it's only £1.25, you notice the shelves don't have many left. They EPOS audit the sales as all supermarkets do, then discount to clear it out at a sensible price.

 

[pinnit2014]

Tube Cheese with Ham?

I googled it there

Do you eat it or do you grout tiles with it?

 

[dunover]

Tube Cheese with Ham?

I googled it there

Do you eat it or do you grout tiles with it?

Lovely stuff mate. Spread on crispbread, crackers, make sandwiches out of it etc. You can get plain which is OK, one with chives in it (WTF??? vile!) and one with prawns in it which I think is foul.

Sadly, it won't sell in Scotland as you can't put batter on it and fry the stuff.

 

[pinnit2014]

Lovely stuff mate. Spread on crispbread, crackers, make sandwiches out of it etc. You can get plain which is OK, one with chives in it (WTF??? vile!) and one with prawns in it which I think is foul.

Sadly, it won't sell in Scotland as you can't put batter on it and fry the stuff.

Well one stage at a time, we're still trying to work out its gender before we sell it.

 

[mack341]

I used to live near a morrisons so became a regular customer and they were pretty competitive on pricing, and with a good fresh cakes section, though for my liking the staff uniform was far too close to ambulance or nhs bods so each visit would have a 'startled moment' when I'd turn a shelf corner and think 'shit what's that ambulance driver doing in here!'

I was just reading on saturday that they are now in a bit of financial bother, iirc the american owners used the same leveraging loan trick the Glazers used to buy man utd, where they put the debt [6 billion remaining] for the buyout onto the company's balance sheet, so interest on the loan is paid out of morrison's profit and is falling short atm. [aldis is squeezing them in the main]

 

[goatwack]

You haven't lived until you've seen Lidl's 'open air' bread section, where all and sundry can 'impart' their germs on that suspicious looking cheese roll one's just picked up.

Then to actually have the gall to provide bags for the customer to put them in, wrapped up without a care in the world as one approaches the till, knowing there's a 50% chance half the high street have played kick ups with them....

Brexit or no Brexit, that's just bad etiquette

 

[goatwack]

Human car-crash Theresa Coffey taking no prisoners in her apparent disdain towards the working classes, or just......anyone struggling with the over-inflated Cost of Living crises.

Short of Cameron's telling pensioners to put on another jumper, this surely makes the Top 5 of Tory-led sound bites of the last 13 years....

(In relation to rising food bills) 'potentially to work some more hours, to get upskilled, to get a higher income'
Ok, that's sorted then. Thanks Theresa!

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[mack341]

We're so blessed to have saint Therese advise us, I will be doing a weekly shop at some point soon and will now stock up on turnips, stupid me I didn't realise they were the ideal replacement for tomatoes or lettuce.

 

[dunover]

We're so blessed to have saint Therese advise us, I will be doing a weekly shop at some point soon and will now stock up on turnips, stupid me I didn't realise they were the ideal replacement for tomatoes or lettuce.

I'll remember that, lets have turnip paste on my pizza bases if no tomato, or cheese and turnip sarnies, perhaps add some turnip puree to my bolognese or chilli. I'd rather eat one of her fucking cigar butts.