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Baptism by Fire - failed Tropica Casino - Rival Casino - cancelled BBF

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...considering this was not our staff communicating with her.

It reads as if this was your staff Dieter...

You are a loser. A joke. We have a collection agency preparing the
collection now.

You will not get away with this and you are most welcome to tell the
police that you made deposits even though you knew it was illegal.

You are trailer park trash and you will get what is coming to you."

I have to admit that you guys seemed to be doing a great job here but having read that, irrespective of what provoked it, I wouldn't want to play there myself or recommend anyone else did. Just that one statement alone is incredibly intimidating.
 
like i said, it happens not in right time, and not with right casino. One stupid mistake by someone - such happens :(

Yeah, but then there must be a way of reconsideration. We have as example a casino here listed, where we had for months!! every couple of days posts about slow paying, delaying etc. but nothing happened except a change to the score.

Come on, those are also very disturbing things for a player. Especially if they give you different answers, and you realize on some point that at least a couple of times they were not totally honest.

Don't get me wrong, i accept all rules here and i know that it's the final decision of Brian. But if they really run so tight with the rules, some other casinos need to be reconsidered as well even if they are placed in the accredited list for a while.

AND FOR ME THE BIGGEST ISSUE HERE IS: Do we have 100% proof that all of this is true?? Have someone requested the logfiles? Have someone checked if the post provided by the OP is legit? I know from a few friends that work in the industry that very fast you get threatened and blackmailed if a user can't afford to lose...
 
Hi cpdnd31,

She charged back. She wrote in stating that under UIGEA, we needed to refund all her deposits or she would destroy us. We refused and she charged back.

We have never had an issue with duplicate billing or incorrect charges. We have good systems and processes in place.

Regards,
Dieter

She didn't need to, you destroyed yourself by employing a criminal collection agency that acted like this on your behalf.

And you guys made a decision to use the template that they provided:what:

First off that Template is beyond ridiculous. Secondly using an Agency that operates that way is also mind boggling. If the player is in the US, third party collections are regulated by the Federal Government. All language in that template violates many parts of th FDCPA (Fair debt collection practices act). The government loves to go and fine Agencies that act that way.

Not to mention this is a great way to expose the casino itself.

This only makes things worse. Not only are you using a rogue collection agency, you are using unregulated "heavies" on US soil. This plays right into the hands of those keen to prohibit online gambling in the US, and proves their argument that the offshore industry is a "criminal enterprise".

This has come like a bolt from the blue as you looked like a Rival casino operator that had managed to put the dodgy reputation of the software's operators behind them.

Although this player is no better herself for pulling such a stunt, things like this need to be dealt with properly, so that if someone decides to complain about the casino's handling of the matter in public, they can be seen to have followed proper procedures.

The Deposit declaration form is a worthless piece of paper, you could never use it against a US player in a legal sense.

In the end, it looks like you would have been better off taking the $8000 hit and getting rid of this woman quietly, then you would still be BBF here.

I am sure most fraudsters realise that your collection agencies are powerless to do anything legally as UIGEA trumps anything your lawyers can bring to bear. There was no reason for her to settle amicably, so she must have been swayed by the threats from the collection agency to publish her private information and tell family and friends. If they routinely do this when dealing with such fraudsters, they would be in a whole heap of trouble from the FBI. The only real power you have is to add her details onto an industry database so that she could never play again at any online casino.
 
The comments by the collection agency are appalling but not anything new for a collection agency. Their job is not to retain customers but to collect funds and right or wrong they can be nasty. This is not something Special about this particular agency and I don't hold any of those comments against Tropica assuming I take the word of a fraudster to be truthful.

Duwayne's comments are the only ones directly attributed to the casino and I really don't have any issue with what he said. He could have handled the situation a little better maybe and the comments about posting personal information ( he did not do this by the way) were possibly out of line.

It's kind of sad that 1 fraudster can cause a reaction like this for a casino that IMO has done a great job and really risen to be a top performer.

No wonder Igor left. 1 bad person dragging you through the mud brings the whole house down. very sad
 
Wow to be honest, i'm a bit worried. It takes only 1 person / 1 comment in a forum to destroy a reputation that was built over years?
What are you saying hoff? That what's happening at Tropica is not bad enough to justify cancelling the BBF?
It's an interesting argument and it might be true but I (personally) wouldn't spare the time to argue it.

I would point out that the complaint on Ask Gamblers is probably the tip of the iceberg.
 
Wow to be honest, i'm a bit worried. It takes only 1 person / 1 comment in a forum to destroy a reputation that was built over years.

With respect I think you are missing the point. Casinomeister has a responsibility to ensure that casinos recommended on the site are safe places for the players. In this case, there are clearly question-marks. All Brian is saying is that he can't recommend them. You still have a choice as a player to play where you want so if you are happy with what you've read and with playing there then no-one is going to stop you.
 
Ok, after re-read the whole thread, i made my own final decision.
I will try this casino, and i am still think this guys is good. Btw, this is only one really safe rival group right now afaik, this guys pays within hours(sometimes minutes), and i did not saw any recent complaints. One bad human did big damage for them, and like i said this is only their own guilty, but i think punishment is just too strict. I am not very agree with CM decision, but in the end of the day it is a) his website b) he is much more than me know what to do in this business and industry :) Simple as that.
Sorry about you Tropica, next time imagine that you all are robots and have no feelings :)
P.S. and i do agree with Hoff, some accredited do many stupid things, at least Tropica did not stole any money.
 
I agree with you Simmo and with the posters here. We have ****** up in our communication.

We had a guy last week charge back $18,500 AFTER receiving his winnings. Total losses there are $55,000 to us.

Just last night a guy demanded a free chip after after receiving 2 already. When he was refused, he asked if we were refusing him service. When replying that we weren't, he said we were and would be charging back as a result.

My point is that these are not customers once they threaten. Their plan is to charge back from day 1. So, do we treat them like customers afterwards? Do we roll out the red carpet when they blackmail us? While I REALLY wish the staff had communicated better, I do understand the frustration as I can see both sides. If you read what was said to us, you would find it hard to express any form of civility (even though that's what we represent).

I will add again that I do not condone this. Many members here will know that. If you wish to judge us on this, then that is your prerogative.

I will leave it with Bryan for reconsideration and failing his approval, will simply continue on our path as before. We have been here 5 years without been accredited and we're happy to proceed as such. At the end of the day, not been accredited will not change the way we operate or strive to improve.

As far as I am concerned, we're one of the best casino groups out there (service, payouts, bonuses, rewards) and we will keep doing our best to keep our real customers happy.

Regards,
Dieter
 
I agree with you Simmo and with the posters here. We have ****** up in our communication.

We had a guy last week charge back $18,500 AFTER receiving his winnings. Total losses there are $55,000 to us.

Just last night a guy demanded a free chip after after receiving 2 already. When he was refused, he asked if we were refusing him service. When replying that we weren't, he said we were and would be charging back as a result.

My point is that these are not customers once they threaten. Their plan is to charge back from day 1. So, do we treat them like customers afterwards? Do we roll out the red carpet when they blackmail us? While I REALLY wish the staff had communicated better, I do understand the frustration as I can see both sides. If you read what was said to us, you would find it hard to express any form of civility (even though that's what we represent).

I will add again that I do not condone this. Many members here will know that. If you wish to judge us on this, then that is your prerogative.

I will leave it with Bryan for reconsideration and failing his approval, will simply continue on our path as before. We have been here 5 years without been accredited and we're happy to proceed as such. At the end of the day, not been accredited will not change the way we operate or strive to improve.

As far as I am concerned, we're one of the best casino groups out there (service, payouts, bonuses, rewards) and we will keep doing our best to keep our real customers happy.

Regards,
Dieter

I have some sympathy Dieter because we all know there are two sides to every coin and I could never, ever work in a customer-facing role :D But you'd never see a bank or high-street business responding this way and in our industry particularly, trust and security are paramount. As a gambler, you want to know that a) you are in safe hands and b) that if you have to deal with the staff at the casino over any issues, it will be handled professionally.

IMO a beter approach in situations like this would be to say "this is our decision and the decision of the management is final" and perhaps recommend a dispute resolution service for the player to take it to arbitration if they so wish. If they are persistent then rinse and repeat and if it does come out in public, you have shown that you are professional, confident and happy to co-operate with a recognised third party. IMO that will give other players some confidence in the brand or at least, give you a chance to prove yourselves.
 
It's unfortunate for Tropica, as the general consensus is of good service and fast payouts going back even as far as when Chopley did his video of their 1777% SUB that time. I have read these unfortunate developments and find myself with the Police Officer analogy. The drunk insults you, your wife and everything you hold dear and still you must call him 'sir' and treat him by the book when arresting him although human nature means you desire to drag him around the corner and give him a good shoeing. This restraint separates the professionals from the rest.

The best than can come out of this is the continued presence of Dieter etc. and the service to CM players at Tropica which he has already stated will be maintained as before.

A great example of the chain be broken by one bad link.
 
But you'd never see a bank or high-street business responding this way

I respectfully disagree with you on this statement.
I had a stroke 4 years ago and was out of work for a year recovering. During that time I struggled to pay bills and the phone calls I received from those so called "high-steet" businesses and banks; while not quite as bad, were not very nice.
They did not care that I intended to pay them as soon as my health was resorted and I was back to work, they just wanted to be paid and they were nasty about it.

I really have no sympathy for how nasty a fraudster was treated if those statements are even true or perhaps slightly exaggerated for some sympathy vote.
 
A great example of the chain be broken by one bad link.
The chain analogy is a bad one I think because it suggests a separation of responsibility.

It's more about "degrees of responsibility" and that could lead to a very long and complicated discussion...
Casinos certainly are responsible *to a degree* for what their employees do.
Sometimes the degree is so small that it doesn't justify action. But I doubt that is the case in this situation.
 
i don't get this charge back bureaucracy but i wonder at the amount of fraudsters that used this, a reaction like that being guaranteed sooner or later. we talk here on big money simply stolen from casino pockets! i understand 100% support reaction if there is no other way to recover the money.
despite i have an account with tropica for years i never deposited because i don't like rival games at all. but in the following days i will do to show my support. Dieter guy is a candy of a rep and for all the help provided here on his brands and even more, he deserve better.
 
Dieter does not deserve better, he already had very good brand! :)
And nothing really bad happens, they just will not be accredited. Since he promises to continue his support to player, we, players, actually did not lose anything :cool:
 
I agree. I get the reason why Bryan can't let them get accredited. But does nobody in here agree that there are casinos accredited (maybe for quite some time) that would never made it again to accreditation when we would check their performance RIGHT NOW.

And that's what i'm saying.

I understand that Bryan doesn't want to let him get accredited, but it just doesn't feel right if i have to say for myself being a member in most accredited casino here, that there quite a few where a player has a much worse customer experience than at Tropica, and that to me shows a bit that some things aren't right.

As far as i have seen it we're talking here about 1 CASE! Although i agree, it's a HUGE THING. This is absolutely catastrophal, still it's one case. And we have casinos that are accredited that maybe didn't mess up as bad in one case, but underperformed for months against their rating, and except a few rating tweaks, nothing happens.

For me accredited means also if the casino says we pay in 3 days, it shouldn't be accredited if there are dozens of reports for months of slow payouts. Just as an example.

I hope you guys don't get me wrong here.
 
Yeah, but then there must be a way of reconsideration. We have as example a casino here listed, where we had for months!! every couple of days posts about slow paying, delaying etc. but nothing happened except a change to the score...
Perhaps you are missing my point. This is much more serious than some slow or delayed payments - that in most cases are not within the control of the casino - this is a serious breach of acceptable business practices. No business should be responding like this, and I don't care how riled up they get.

Unlike other websites that freely advertise whomever to whatever, we hold the casinos to a higher standard. When casinos react in this manner, it reflects poorly on their Accredited counterparts (3Dice, Jackpot Capital, Club World, etc.). Imagine an email exchange like this from the likes of them? I owe it to these accredited casinos to uphold these standards for all. Don't think this is an easy decision for me to make since I do sympathize with Tropica.

It also reflects on my judgement of what is acceptable behavior for an accredited casino. This casino has been in business for quite a while and they should have known better than to send insulting and threatening emails.
 
Yes i agree with you on that. But that means you also have evidence that the e-mail was sent from their staff and that all that was written at Askgambler is real? Correct? Maybe i was not reading through careful enough but i thought i saw on one point that Dieter claimed the message was not sent from his staff.

I think i'm not far away from you here with my opinion, it's just a very bad moment as Tropica proofed in so many ways over the last few months what a good casino they can be, and that they're punished for a thing that happend a while back is hard... But it totally get your point.

Perhaps you are missing my point. This is much more serious than some slow or delayed payments - that in most cases are not within the control of the casino - this is a serious breach of acceptable business practices. No business should be responding like this, and I don't care how riled up they get.

Unlike other websites that freely advertise whomever to whatever, we hold the casinos to a higher standard. When casinos react in this manner, it reflects poorly on their Accredited counterparts (3Dice, Jackpot Capital, Club World, etc.). Imagine an email exchange like this from the likes of them? I owe it to these accredited casinos to uphold these standards for all. Don't think this is an easy decision for me to make since I do sympathize with Tropica.

It also reflects on my judgement of what is acceptable behavior for an accredited casino. This casino has been in business for quite a while and they should have known better than to send insulting and threatening emails.
 
This casino has been in business for quite a while and they should have known better than to send insulting and threatening emails.

Perhaps I misunderstood but I got the impression that those terrible e-mails came from a third party and not from the casino itself. I assume there is evidence of the nature of this communication to be factual as stated.
The Tropica Rep mentions that the collections folks are aggressive but he does not agree with the language the poster mention was used as well.

Ultimately the casino is responsible for the action of any third party they contract with be it a support, payment processors or collection agencies but I don't think it's fair to give them the death penalty for someone else's actions.

I thought the BBF process allowed the members and casino and work together to identify areas for improvement and make corrections. Seems like they should be allowed the opportunity to improve through the BBF process and get a more reputable collection agency.
 
I`m feeling sad for Dieter and his stuff who are doing a great job.

Of course I respect Bryan`s decision to stop the BBF.

I play Tropica and the other Refilliate casinos since April and they get 95 to 99% of my deposits.

Here are the reasons:

- If you have a question, issue or whatever Dieter is always here to help you. I never had to wait more than a few hours for a friendly answer or solution, including weekends.

- Payouts are really fast, sometimes some minutes, longest were 9 hours over night to my Neteller account.

- CS is superb, thank you Remy and all the other guys and girls who are doing a really good job.

- A huge variety of bonuses without unclear terms.

- A software you don`t have to wait for ages to get a bonus round.

- If a fraudster tries to f*** the casino he/she will get f*** too.

- If you are a "normal" player you have the best service in the online gambling industry.

In my opinion one piece of s*** destroyed the work of years. On the other side, a RIVAL casino was able to qualify for a BBF.

Two years ago this scenario was not imaginable.

Long story short: I trust this group and they are on the same level as GUTS.

With or without accreditation:)

Cheers

gagamel
 
You will not get away with this and you are most welcome to tell the police that you made deposits even though you knew it was illegal.

Out of all the unprofessional shit I've read in the askgambler thread, this part takes the cake. Bringing up the illegal aspect of depositing money in your casino.
 
Yes i agree with you on that. But that means you also have evidence that the e-mail was sent from their staff and that all that was written at Askgambler is real? Correct? Maybe i was not reading through careful enough but i thought i saw on one point that Dieter claimed the message was not sent from his staff.

.

The way I read it was he said they used a template so that means came from them. I don't see him really denying any of this communication happened. Also the response directly from Tropica at the other site was extremely unprofessional.
 
Completely agree with Bryan on this. Also see how others wonder how other accredited casinos don't face harsh repercussions over payment processing issues.

But I realized, really that complaints about payment processing delays and chargeback are symptoms of the same root issue: the challenges of operating a US facing online casino dealing with fiat currency.

I'm starting to see things more Bryan's way looking through that prism.

I do insist that inertia is inertia and that within 3-5 years all US facing casinos will be Bitcoin-based and as such chargebacks, and payout issues will be virtually non-existent, and accreditation will be a much easier matter as focus will be on casino liquidity/game integrity.
 
This topic is related to the question; Exactly how bad does a casino need to be before it would lose its accreditation?
I think it would be a good idea to keep that line blurred because if the casinos knew exactly what they could get away with they might take advantage of it. :D
 
I can sort of, to a point, understand a business getting p*ssed off when they are having money thieved from them on a near constant basis, but emails like that are shocking. I could never imagine receiving an email like that from the places I usually play at - not that I chargeback of course.

The part that read "our collection agency is quite aggressive in their approach to make thieves or fraudsters pay" actually sent a bit of a shiver down my spine, almost came across as a threat of violence the way I read it. Completely out of order.
 
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I can sort of, to a point, understand a business getting p*ssed off when they are having money thieved from them on a near constant basis, but emails like that are shocking. I could never imagine receiving an email like that from the places I usually play at - not that I chargeback of course.

The part that read "our collection agency is quite aggressive in their approach to make thieves or fraudsters pay" actually sent a bit of a shiver down my spine, came across as a threat of violence the way I read it. Completely out of order.

This is the real issue here, they are using a collection agency that appears to operate outside of the law, a bit like ripping off "the mob" and having their "collection agency" come round with a baseball bat to ask you to return the money. The threats were the digital version of the heavies with baseball bats as there was no mention of any legal process, but rather an attempt to blackmail the player into giving the money back through the commission of illegal acts such as publishing their private information on the internet, and telling their friends and family about their gambling and fraud.

Maybe this approach has worked, but it is a dangerous "time bomb" that has finally blown both their feet off after they used it on the wrong person.

They also seemed to contradict themselves, first telling the fraudster that the deposits were illegal, and they knew it, and then asking them to commit the same crime AGAIN in order that the charged back deposits could be honoured.

This could be a BIG problem for US facing casinos as this could be a sign that the fraudsters have decided to change tactic and no longer be intimidated by the threats from the "collection agency". If the bluff has been called, it's possible that other fraudsters who charge back will fight the "collection agency" and the casino rather than be scared that their family, friends, boss, etc WILL find out about their habit, and that their credit rating will be trashed.

The banks too may well be getting wise to a rash of chargebacks for purchases made at offshore "retailers", and thus figure out how to tighten the noose of UIGEA even further.

It's not all good news for the fraudsters though because once they charge back, the bank might discover that they were using them for illegal transactions for gambling, and could freeze their account for investigation, or even kick them out of the bank altogether. This would also be something that WOULD affect their credit rating, because the bank will share the information, not some offshore "collection agency".

The problem for casinos is the ease of charging back under UIGEA, they dare not defend, therefore it is easy for the fraudster to achieve. It will be a problem so long as cards are accepted for deposits, and it may well be a growing problem.

Maybe the casinos should look for a deposit method that cannot be the subject of a chargeback, and then they can disallow the use of cards for new players, allowing them if they become loyal and appear to be genuine, and accepting their losses as well as their wins with good grace.
 
If you are playing fair with the Refilliate Group you will have the best customer support, that`s for sure.

What we have seen here is a lack of good support, but it is one case. In my opinion one mistake should be allowed.

Tropica is not as big as William Hill, if you have a problem with them and these guys think you are a fraudster they don`t answer any question.

Tropica is like a family, if you respect their rules you can feel like a king. If you are a fraudster, well then you see the way it`s going.

ONE case destroyed the work of years. Some guys here stated that there are max cashouts.

Voila, you have a 200% bonus without max. cashouts and a 34x WR which is not bad.


I respect Bryan`s decision to stop the BBF but I don`t respect the guys and girls here in the forums who are only here to take, take, take.

Sorry. I`m a little upset.

There was a threat some time ago. What software would you play on an island?

I would play every software the Refilliates group would give because I trust them.

Thank you Dieter and his team for all. You are doing a great job :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
This is the real issue here, they are using a collection agency that appears to operate outside of the law, a bit like ripping off "the mob" and having their "collection agency" come round with a baseball bat to ask you to return the money. The threats were the digital version of the heavies with baseball bats as there was no mention of any legal process, but rather an attempt to blackmail the player into giving the money back through the commission of illegal acts such as publishing their private information on the internet, and telling their friends and family about their gambling and fraud.

Maybe this approach has worked, but it is a dangerous "time bomb" that has finally blown both their feet off after they used it on the wrong person.

They also seemed to contradict themselves, first telling the fraudster that the deposits were illegal, and they knew it, and then asking them to commit the same crime AGAIN in order that the charged back deposits could be honoured.

This could be a BIG problem for US facing casinos as this could be a sign that the fraudsters have decided to change tactic and no longer be intimidated by the threats from the "collection agency". If the bluff has been called, it's possible that other fraudsters who charge back will fight the "collection agency" and the casino rather than be scared that their family, friends, boss, etc WILL find out about their habit, and that their credit rating will be trashed.

The banks too may well be getting wise to a rash of chargebacks for purchases made at offshore "retailers", and thus figure out how to tighten the noose of UIGEA even further.

It's not all good news for the fraudsters though because once they charge back, the bank might discover that they were using them for illegal transactions for gambling, and could freeze their account for investigation, or even kick them out of the bank altogether. This would also be something that WOULD affect their credit rating, because the bank will share the information, not some offshore "collection agency".

The problem for casinos is the ease of charging back under UIGEA, they dare not defend, therefore it is easy for the fraudster to achieve. It will be a problem so long as cards are accepted for deposits, and it may well be a growing problem.

Maybe the casinos should look for a deposit method that cannot be the subject of a chargeback, and then they can disallow the use of cards for new players, allowing them if they become loyal and appear to be genuine, and accepting their losses as well as their wins with good grace.

Like the players' gold teeth, via the baseball bat...:D
 
I am really disappointed to see this BBF end like this. USA player have very few choices and variety. Even amongst the accredited USA casino's there are only 3 that I play at and one of those is on thin ice with me. The rest I would not touch for all the free play in the world.

Refilliates has been really great for the USA market. I was hoping that having a "real" player in the game would help to elevate the rest to become better.

Most of you should not even be remotely concerned by the way this fraudster was treated by the collection agency because you would never be in a situation like that.
It's called Karma.......I know you believe in Karma...I do....All gamblers do. That's part of why we return that extra bonus chip........because we know that at some point Karma will reward us. Just like we know that Fraudsters will be rewarded with the Karma they deserve.

Bryan
I am asking you myself to give them another chance. IMO they would be a great addition to the list of great accredited USA facing casinos like CW & 3-Dice and they may help the others realize it's time to bring their A game.
 
I am really disappointed to see this BBF end like this. USA player have very few choices and variety. Even amongst the accredited USA casino's there are only 3 that I play at and one of those is on thin ice with me. The rest I would not touch for all the free play in the world.

Refilliates has been really great for the USA market. I was hoping that having a "real" player in the game would help to elevate the rest to become better.

Most of you should not even be remotely concerned by the way this fraudster was treated by the collection agency because you would never be in a situation like that.
It's called Karma.......I know you believe in Karma...I do....All gamblers do. That's part of why we return that extra bonus chip........because we know that at some point Karma will reward us. Just like we know that Fraudsters will be rewarded with the Karma they deserve.

Bryan
I am asking you myself to give them another chance. IMO they would be a great addition to the list of great accredited USA facing casinos like CW & 3-Dice and they may help the others realize it's time to bring their A game.


Did Tropica bring their A game? Did they disclose their "collection agency" practices - ever? Is this accredited casino behavior? What about the accredited casinos who act civilly? Is it fair to them to give Tropica a pass?

Hard questions may deserve hard answers. Just my cents.
 
I am really disappointed to see this BBF end like this. USA player have very few choices and variety. Even amongst the accredited USA casino's there are only 3 that I play at and one of those is on thin ice with me. The rest I would not touch for all the free play in the world.

Refilliates has been really great for the USA market. I was hoping that having a "real" player in the game would help to elevate the rest to become better.

Most of you should not even be remotely concerned by the way this fraudster was treated by the collection agency because you would never be in a situation like that.
It's called Karma.......I know you believe in Karma...I do....All gamblers do. That's part of why we return that extra bonus chip........because we know that at some point Karma will reward us. Just like we know that Fraudsters will be rewarded with the Karma they deserve.

Bryan
I am asking you myself to give them another chance. IMO they would be a great addition to the list of great accredited USA facing casinos like CW & 3-Dice and they may help the others realize it's time to bring their A game.

In Europe we have no restrictions. We have a lot of game providers we can play.

Long story short. Give these guys another chance. They went great, they are great and they will be great.

I play more than 90% of my money with them and there was never a problem. Never.

Dieter, the CEO of this casino, would never speak in that way to his customers.

A fault is a fault, nothing more and nothing less :)
 
I am guys with you here, Tropica team does not deserve it.
But once again:
Mister meister more experience that all we here
It is his website
If he made this decision - he think it is right. Everyone who did not like it - can continue play at tropica like always.
 
It's a pretty serious mistake, they actually broke the law.

If a player makes a mistake even remotely as serious, there are no second chances.

There is also the possibility that an innocent player could get treated like this because Tropica are arrogant in the extreme to claim that it's justified because their US facing processors are 100% legit and reliable when casinos like Club World have fallen prey to dodgy processors who fleece their players and then run off when they get caught.

They appear to have kept this "collection agency" thing a secret from Bryan, yet seem to have used it extensively against those players they class as fraudsters. I am surprised they got away with it for so long before someone decided to make an issue of it on a public forum.

I also wonder whether other accredited US facing casinos have a similarly unsavoury practice of using "collection agencies", but have yet to be caught out.

They would have to serve a time out, and then start the process of gaining BBF all over again. They should show that they are using legit collections agencies that act within the laws of the jurisdiction of those they chase down for monies owed.

They only ended up back in the reservation, at least they have not gone all the way to the rogue pit.
 
Did Tropica bring their A game? Did they disclose their "collection agency" practices - ever? Is this accredited casino behavior? What about the accredited casinos who act civilly? Is it fair to them to give Tropica a pass?

Hard questions may deserve hard answers. Just my cents.

For me they did bring their A game. I'm a low roller and they treated me like a high roller from day 1. They are everything I have been looking for for years in a US facing casino.
Great CS, they respond quickly and are helpful. They actually listen when you have a problem or a suggestion like changing bonus terms so I don't have to calculate 10% of my bonus on my wager..........

I have NEVER had a withdraw at 8pm that posted to my bank account at 9 the next morning in my life.

I will continue to play here and will continue to recommend them.
IMO they should be given an opportunity to correct the collection agency practice which seem to be deemed offensive by a few folks (for the record I'm fine with treating scum like scum).
 
For me they did bring their A game. I'm a low roller and they treated me like a high roller from day 1. They are everything I have been looking for for years in a US facing casino.
Great CS, they respond quickly and are helpful. They actually listen when you have a problem or a suggestion like changing bonus terms so I don't have to calculate 10% of my bonus on my wager..........

I have NEVER had a withdraw at 8pm that posted to my bank account at 9 the next morning in my life.

I will continue to play here and will continue to recommend them.
IMO they should be given an opportunity to correct the collection agency practice which seem to be deemed offensive by a few folks (for the record I'm fine with treating scum like scum).

This is not a luxury a business can afford to indulge. Many people would be happy to see child killers shot at dawn, but it's not going to happen because no government could act like this, and anyone who takes it upon themselves to do it would have to be tried for murder, no matter how popular said murder was. This doesn't mean that Tropica should just let it go either, they just have to use a reputable collection agency who is licenced to operate, and who will do housecalls and try to seize goods to the value if the debtor refuses to pay up. A reputable collection agency knocking at the door might actually have more effect than the abusive rantings of an offshore agency whom a smart person would quickly realise were bluffing because of the excess of language and idle threats.
 
is there any indication that there games were anything but first class [bed side manner is important , and so is charge backs , ] so what advise can casino mister forum give to tropica at this time :confused:
 
is there any indication that there games were anything but first class [bed side manner is important , and so is charge backs , ] so what advise can casino mister forum give to tropica at this time :confused:

No. This bears some similarity with Grand Prive who were cast into the pit for screwing affiliates whilst looking after the players. Affiliates were incandescent with rage, and determined that shady business practice should not go unpunished. Players however, said that this was an overreaction. How could they be in the pit despite doing nothing wrong for players. The answer was that if a company was prepared to act badly in one way, what's to stop it screwing over a different group later on. The problem was the overall ethics, rather than the individual act.

Tropica's ethics here are in question because they are prepared to act outside the law in order to force a resolution of a dispute between a player and themselves. They have acted as judge, jury, and executioner in branding the player guilty of fraud, and passing sentence, and then subcontracting it's enforcement to a mob like contractor. Whether they are right or wrong isn't the main point, it's the method of "mediation" they chose to utilise that caused the problem.

Players who use similar methods to resolve disputes they have with a casino end up getting banned from the forum. It's considered blackmail, and is not tolerated. To be fair here, Bryan is just as intolerant of casinos that use blackmail to resolve a dispute with a player who has managed to move the money back over to their side of the fence against the wishes of the casino.

Players are told that no matter how screwed over they feel, they should resolve their dispute politely, and through the correct channels, not blackmail the casino in order to force it to pay up or face financial damage.

Here, it looks like a "knock for knock" with both casino and player using blackmail tactics in the dispute.
 
This bears some similarity with Grand Prive who were cast into the pit for screwing affiliates whilst looking after the players.

Screwing affiliates and overzealously pressuring a fraudster to pay are 2 completely different things. They have a right to collect their debt.

If the BBF process found that they are using a debt collection method that is out of line with what is acceptable for accredited casino's then IMO they should be given an opportunity to correct that.
 
Screwing affiliates and overzealously pressuring a fraudster to pay are 2 completely different things. They have a right to collect their debt.

If the BBF process found that they are using a debt collection method that is out of line with what is acceptable for accredited casino's then IMO they should be given an opportunity to correct that.

I haven't seen anything that says they cannot reapply for BBF once they have corrected the problems.

There have been casinos that have plunged from accredited to the pit for a serious and unethical business practice that they thought was hidden getting found out. After correcting the problem, and after a while, they were once again accredited.

There is nothing to suggest that genuine players have much to worry about due to this BBF failure. They can choose to carry on playing there as though this had never happened to derail the BBF process.

What may have lead to this is how the US market is like shooting fish in a barrel for the fraudsters who know damn well that within the US, they can operate this chargeback scam with near impunity. If a player from the UK tried this, they could find themselves under arrest because a UK licenced casino WILL take them on, and fully within the law, and in one notable case HAS taken a fraudster on, and a conviction was achieved.

It's possible that US facing casinos could fight this by not allowing new players to withdraw for 120 days so that the opportunity to get paid and charge back the original deposits passes, but imposing this on all players would be business suicide, and could well cause some legitimate players to initiate chargebacks because they feel the casino has just stalled them and has no intention of paying in the end.
 
There is nothing to suggest that genuine players have much to worry about due to this BBF failure.
I'm not too sure about that. There's always the chance that a genuine player could be misconstrued as a fraudster and then be subjected to abuse.
Some other reasons are; if Tropica are practicing this, what else are they up to? Poor behaviour in one area implies poor behaviour in other areas.
I would say if people want to play at Tropica by all means do so. But keep your eyes open. :eek2:
 
I guess I'm a little confused, and more than likely I probably missed the answer to this but it sounds like the response came from an employee? Well obviously it came from an employee but my point is who in the organization chain wrote the emails? I'm not one who believes because one employee does something bad the entire organization should be punished. It would be different if the higher ups didn't do anything to fix the issue, or if they allowed it to happen be it through lack of training or bad policies.

No matter how hard they try a company cannot control all of their employees. If any moderator here decided to post the most vulgar thing imaginable, that doesn't all of a sudden make casinomeister any less of a great forum (unless he doesn't address the issue).
 
on 2/11/14 this tropica thing was resolved at the other forum hense were it [ths complaint ] came from please correct me if im wrong
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(samantmd posted on 02/11/2014

This matter is now resolved.)
 
on 2/11/14 this tropica thing was resolved at the other forum hense were it [ths complaint ] came from please correct me if im wrong
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(samantmd posted on 02/11/2014

This matter is now resolved.)

"resolved" on ask gamblers probably means they made private agreements. "The player has come to an agreement to settle, so this matter should be closed." That suggests it's likely that either they further threatened the player to the point where she gave in, or compensated her with extra bonus or whatever so she can agree to shut up.

that does not mean it's actually resolved. "resolved" on ask gamblers is nothing more than a tag. Tropica's offence still stands as a warning to the rest of us even if OP is willing to take the bribe/threat and shut up.
 
5. Your credit cards will be posted online
6. Your friends and family will be contacted

Apart from the various nasty other threats, these 2 are breathtaking. A Casino operating illegally in a country then threatening to further break data protection. How stupid were you not to monitor and censure this kind of communication.

Yes, fraud and chargebacks are debilitating for Casinos, but you and Rival chose to operate in the US knowing the advantage you have there (after so many providers and companies pulled out). I'd be worried this kind of attention gets you reported to someone who could really make your life miserable, specifically the FBI.

As has been stated many times, Dieter and his crew are a fine bunch. But when you go down the rabbit hole at a Rival casino, prepared to get shafted.
 
I'm not too sure about that. There's always the chance that a genuine player could be misconstrued as a fraudster and then be subjected to abuse.
Some other reasons are; if Tropica are practicing this, what else are they up to? Poor behaviour in one area implies poor behaviour in other areas.
I would say if people want to play at Tropica by all means do so. But keep your eyes open. :eek2:

This could be why Bryan has appeared to have been draconian in his response, which has upset quite a few players at Tropica who feel they should be given another chance within the currently running BBF. That would be too lenient, and would set a bad example for other casinos tempted to push the boundaries when it comes to dealing with chargebacks.

5. Your credit cards will be posted online
6. Your friends and family will be contacted

Apart from the various nasty other threats, these 2 are breathtaking. A Casino operating illegally in a country then threatening to further break data protection. How stupid were you not to monitor and censure this kind of communication.

Yes, fraud and chargebacks are debilitating for Casinos, but you and Rival chose to operate in the US knowing the advantage you have there (after so many providers and companies pulled out). I'd be worried this kind of attention gets you reported to someone who could really make your life miserable, specifically the FBI.

As has been stated many times, Dieter and his crew are a fine bunch. But when you go down the rabbit hole at a Rival casino, prepared to get shafted.

This is why I am pretty sure it's a bluff, an idle threat to scare the player into complying. Imagine if they DID post the credit cards of players who charged back online, and they were then used by criminals. This would lead to an investigation by the banks, police, even the FBI, and if they found the webpage that leaked these details, they would go looking for the source. If they found it was Rival, they would not just go after the one casino, they would go after the Rival company in Canada too.

As for 6. I don't recall ever having to list my friends and family when registering at a casino, so no casino could reliably work out who were my friends and family without a high risk of getting it wrong.


Since this is the first time we have heard of anything like this, I doubt this collection agency has ever carried out the worst of these threats, but has backed off when it has become clear that their bluff has been called.
 
I guess the thing that upsets me the most about this is there is

1) absolutely no proof given that the op's card was charged more than they deposited

2) if the op is adamant they did nothing wrong why did they settle(it would interesting to see what they settled for)

3) why are there no more complaints about the so-called rogue collection agency being used by this casino?

I'm not saying I agree with the wording that was used toward the op but just how many more brands do the very same thing and we don't hear about it? If we do, are those then going to lose their accreditation?

Now please don't crucify me......I just have questions. To receive such high praise from players and in an instant its gone just doesn't make sense to me.
 
Tropica Casino is in the wrong for the avenue they took to peruse there problem , but if we knew for shure it was indeed multiple chargeback's should this influence the type of reprimand they get and bryan can confirm that as that is info that they exchange in P.A.B. issues

PS would the shoe fit as in the punishment should fit the crime im asking for input
 
I'm not saying I agree with the wording that was used toward the op but just how many more brands do the very same thing and we don't hear about it? If we do, are those then going to lose their accreditation?

I think that every CM accredited casino would lose their accreditation quick if they happened to be in that Askgamblers thread instead of Tropica.

Remember that PaddyPower lost their accreditation (for a while?):

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/paddypower-novelty-bet-oscar-pistorius-verdict.61228/

Maybe not comparable but it shows that Bryan takes casinos off the list if they are using methods he doesn't like.
 
IMO Dieter and Tropica are still doing a fine job and I'm sure their casino is a fine choice to play at but an unethical practice was exposed and the CM crew have made their decision. As a member of their forum I support that 100%.
 
Remember what happens to CM members who are found out doing chargeback ..... they be outta here post haste. CM is completely serious AND FAIR to players and casinos about the rules here at CM and those who choose to follow (or not follow) those rules.

I think the man does an exemplary job of keeping this site balanced and running. Kudos to Casinomeister:thumbsup:
 
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