The state of play in the U.S.

[EbeeDog]

OK. After this thread I'll shut up about it. Promise

I am beginning to doubt there ever was even a problem with pay-2-card. The "processors" sure are working just fine to deposit.

I can't imagine that anybody other than U.S. residents have been playing at these places for some time now, so their revenues were nose-diving, making it necessary to eliminate convenient WD options.

May 16, 2016. That's the date shewoff began his thread about Pay-2-card:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/73477?t=73477

Almost 2 months. That is enough time to put any replacement system in place. Doesn't seem like they're trying very hard does it?

How about Rockydyke's thread here?:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/74223?t=74223

I suspect that one day soon, the minimum for bankwires and checks are going to go up, along with the costs.

Enough is enough.

Quote the Meister himself:

"Further, I have mentioned ad nauseam that US players will have payment problems if they choose to play at casinos not licensed in the States, and it is only going to get worse. There is nothing I can do about this, and this is beyond the scope of Casinomeister to rectify. The whole debit card fiasco was happening when I was on the road. And again, I would only be repeating myself by saying if you are in the US and chose to play online, be prepared to have major issues when it comes to payments."
(Underline-mine/Bold-his)

I managed to finally quit. It has been a very difficult few weeks, but the further I distance myself from depositing, the more utterly insane it looks.

I realize this may ruffle some feathers. Tough shit. I cannot sit by and watch entities take blatant advantage of folks who just want to have some fair and square i-gaming fun without having to fight for every withdrawal.

Yes, of course this can be viewed as a bitch/rant/tinfoil/wtf-ever. But I would like to think part of it is in the spirit of helpfulness to anybody who may think they are stuck in this whirlpool. Peace out, as shewoff says

 

[BMWSTACK]

I am beginning to doubt there ever was even a problem with pay-2-card. The "processors" sure are working just fine to deposit.

I can't imagine that anybody other than U.S. residents have been playing at these places for some time now, so their revenues were nose-diving, making it necessary to eliminate convenient WD options.


Almost 2 months. That is enough time to put any replacement system in place.

I realize this may ruffle some feathers. Tough shit. I cannot sit by and watch entities take blatant advantage of folks who just want to have some fair and square i-gaming fun without having to fight for every withdrawal.

Yes, of course this can be viewed as a bitch/rant/tinfoil/wtf-ever. But I would like to think part of it is in the spirit of helpfulness to anybody who may think they are stuck in this whirlpool. Peace out, as shewoff says

The casinos are not the one eliminating this withdrawal option. It is the processor. Losing this convenient withdrawal method does stop some players from depositing. The casinos WANT & NEED this method back more than any players desire for this option.

It is strictly the processor. This pay 2 card was wide spread at lots of RTG which means there was significant amount of transactions being processed. The realistic theory is, the processor either got in to trouble, or sensed that there was an issue. It is not legal to process online gambling funds in most states. The DOJ is more interested in pursuing processors than the casinos, because it's the processors doing wrong in the eyes of the laws. 2007 neteller execs got arrested on us soil. This was due to processing gambling funds for gambling sites such as party poker.

Finding another option is an extremely difficult task. The casinos rely on 3rd parties to do the processing. The 3rd party processors are who take on all the risk of processing US funds. No reputable processor wants this exposure. So what does that leave? Rogue processors that don't mind breaking the law. We have certainly seen both casinos and players taken advantage of fly by night processors.
So with that being said the casino must rely on trustworthy processors, but the good ones don't want the risk, catch22.

So that now leaves options of checks and bank wires. Hopefully these stay around for the US people that want to continue to gamble.

In conclusion the casinos want nothing more than good processors and multiple ways to pay. This is what helps business. I can guarantee you most casinos have suffered fall out because of this pay 2 card issue.

 

[EbeeDog]

A fair and well-thought out response. Thank you.

My above post is the result of me asking myself some more or less rhetorical questions:

1. In the past few years, with the emerging markets in the U.K. and elsewhere, how much business do they garner other than the U.S.?

2. If the processors are at such risk, why are they still processing deposits but not withdrawals?

3. Why, when the problem arose, did not one single casino involved inform anyone?

4. Do I, personally, want to risk playing at these casinos?

These questions are things I have thought about and (posted about), but am not really expecting solid answers.


It is simply my opinion that to wait 48 hrs is bad enough. Giving these places access to my banking info (further than a debit card which can easily be canceled), is not an option - it smacks of coercion.

The only other avenue is a check processed through questionable sources which may or may not go through.

For my money, these are not acceptable conditions. I think, if a rational person asks themselves the same questions as I did, they will get some hard answers.

I likedplaying! I miss it! If they ever get their act together, I will be glad to deposit again. I'm not making a wholesale condemnation of i-gaming - rather, posting about what I see as a very risky environment here in the states.


On a lighter note: I'd like to see those two lovable fellows, Harry & Goatie, playing and waiting for a check)

 

[Nightfly]

No doubt the casinos are feeling the pinch. And it's a downward spiral. The less players are depositing the less the jackpots and payouts are.

 

[BMWSTACK]

A fair and well-thought out response. Thank you.

My above post is the result of me asking myself some more or less rhetorical questions:

1. In the past few years, with the emerging markets in the U.K. and elsewhere, how much business do they garner other than the U.S.?

2. If the processors are at such risk, why are they still processing deposits but not withdrawals?

3. Why, when the problem arose, did not one single casino involved inform anyone?

4. Do I, personally, want to risk playing at these casinos?

These questions are things I have thought about and (posted about), but am not really expecting solid answers.


It is simply my opinion that to wait 48 hrs is bad enough. Giving these places access to my banking info (further than a debit card which can easily be canceled), is not an option - it smacks of coercion.

The only other avenue is a check processed through questionable sources which may or may not go through.

For my money, these are not acceptable conditions. I think, if a rational person asks themselves the same questions as I did, they will get some hard answers.
)

2) Its easy to hide deposits with the fake descriptors, and international charges are becoming more common. Having money credited internationally is not as common and is probably scrutinized for multiple reasons including money laundering. Also the processor that is charging the transactions is not necessarily the same one that is processing payouts. There are generally multiple 3 rd parties doing different parts of the banking.

3) That's just a pure customer service deal. I guess they figure they would rather remain quiet and help you figure out another withdrawal method. It would be smarter for the casino to realize that there will eventually be a post by someone, so why not gain credibility and be proactive by making the announcement yourself. In the years of online gambling it seems to be the norm for casinos (especially rtg) to not be very upfront with issues.

I do agree that there is always a risk giving these place banking info. As I stated previously, a processor willing to get involved in US transactions is walking a fine line. Most extremely reputable processors will not get involved in US processing leaving less reputable possible rogue processors, hence more risk of security break or blatant fraud. Yes I have had credit card fraud in the past from obvious processors. The most recent subtle attempt was the old clubworld processor overcharging by a few dollars.

The check option has had its issues over the years including slow drawn out payments, checks that don't successfully clear because accounts have been changed and so on.

It is a personal decision as to whether someone wants to deal with the current issues at that time and play.

 

[shewoff]

EbeeDog, you have a good grip on the problem and perhaps quitting is the answer? I have been playing so long that quitting has never entered my mind.But the loss of my ability to withdraw is a major roadblock.
I just had a WD from INetBet for $310.00 and by the time I got the wire transfer it was down to $225.00. It was $50.00 for the wire and my bank charged me $15.00 for receiving the wire and there was another $20.00 that I did not know about.Total=$85.00
I ask CS at the casino and they politely told me that my bank uses an outside bank to process the wire from another country. It is standard said the CS rep and to question my bank. Which I did and sure enough it was because of the area of the world that the wire came from.

Now I have had money taken by bank's in countries where the casino's are based. Such as a $2500.00 loss that I thought was the casino just not paying was actually a bank in the UK that hit me up for taxes for my winning's at the casino. And sure enough I got a e-mail from a bank again in the UK breaking it all down and I was charged for winning in the UK based country of the casino? I was flabbergasted but I consulted an attorney and was told TRUE!



So playing online for so many year's I have gotten used to having to endure the loss's of playing online. It is just the way it is. And if I want to continue to play I accept it or quit.

If only my country was not so dead set on trying to control me and my preferences.But they have a grip on the heart beat of America by telling people of the bad that can come from online gaming and that is not all there is to it.

Just like herb. They have lied so long about it's nasty side that the real user's got a large money based political group and fought back and with-in the next 5 to 10 year's it will be legit nationally.Because the US government has seen what kind of tax's can be generated by the sale and taxation of this product.

So if and when we as a group and the companies that profit from online gaming can come together to create a national movement to create change. We who continue will have to endure the cost of playing online illegally.

BMWSTACK you have a true insight into this problem and your post show your knowledge of it. Thank's. Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

 

[Nightfly]

The Main Street Group listed in Casinomeister's Reservation section charge no withdrawal fees for bank transfers or checks sent by courier. If you're lucky enough to win there withdrawals are free. Played there last year and made a few withdrawals. Not so lucky this year. The negative issue with Main Street is long processing times. It took 2 to 4 weeks to see the funds in my bank. But I did get paid.

 

[EbeeDog]

Thanks for the responses. Some valid points made, some not so valid. At any rate, thanks for what feedback I did get.

I'll be leaving it alone now. Thanks also for listening.

Sincerely, GL to all.

 

[Deanna]

Now I have had money taken by bank's in countries where the casino's are based. Such as a $2500.00 loss that I thought was the casino just not paying was actually a bank in the UK that hit me up for taxes for my winning's at the casino. And sure enough I got a e-mail from a bank again in the UK breaking it all down and I was charged for winning in the UK based country of the casino? I was flabbergasted but I consulted an attorney and was told TRUE!

Wow. That's just not right and would certainly throw me for a loop. I had absolutely no idea that could happen.

 

[corboom]

I dont think it is just withdrawals either. I think depositing is becoming harder for casinos to accept. Club world used to offer a gift card you could buy online then use it to deposit in the casino. Unfortunately, that was just taken down a few weeks ago and now I cannot deposit with them at all. Also, the jackpot capital dcc card is no longer offered.

So, to counter your point of them taking deposits so well, I would say that they are running into similar problems with there own gift cards or prepaid cards as well. Its likely not just for withdrawing.

 

[X-Raided]

Things are getting crazy for us American players. Time to drive a few miles out and play at brick and mortar casinos until things get
better and our draconian government starts to wise up. Big boat we're missing by not regulating online gaming already instead of bleeding billions to offshore foreign gambling establishments.

 

[frufrugirl]

EbeeDog, you have a good grip on the problem and perhaps quitting is the answer? I have been playing so long that quitting has never entered my mind.But the loss of my ability to withdraw is a major roadblock.
I just had a WD from INetBet for $310.00 and by the time I got the wire transfer it was down to $225.00. It was $50.00 for the wire and my bank charged me $15.00 for receiving the wire and there was another $20.00 that I did not know about.Total=$85.00
I ask CS at the casino and they politely told me that my bank uses an outside bank to process the wire from another country. It is standard said the CS rep and to question my bank. Which I did and sure enough it was because of the area of the world that the wire came from.

Now I have had money taken by bank's in countries where the casino's are based. Such as a $2500.00 loss that I thought was the casino just not paying was actually a bank in the UK that hit me up for taxes for my winning's at the casino. And sure enough I got a e-mail from a bank again in the UK breaking it all down and I was charged for winning in the UK based country of the casino? I was flabbergasted but I consulted an attorney and was told TRUE!



So playing online for so many year's I have gotten used to having to endure the loss's of playing online. It is just the way it is. And if I want to continue to play I accept it or quit.

If only my country was not so dead set on trying to control me and my preferences.But they have a grip on the heart beat of America by telling people of the bad that can come from online gaming and that is not all there is to it.

Just like herb. They have lied so long about it's nasty side that the real user's got a large money based political group and fought back and with-in the next 5 to 10 year's it will be legit nationally.Because the US government has seen what kind of tax's can be generated by the sale and taxation of this product.

So if and when we as a group and the companies that profit from online gaming can come together to create a national movement to create change. We who continue will have to endure the cost of playing online illegally.

BMWSTACK you have a true insight into this problem and your post show your knowledge of it. Thank's. Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

Ahhh what? The banks taxing you threw me off. I thought UK gambling was non taxable, as its deemed games of chance. Only the operators are taxed. Are you sure you are not being scammed? Or, the casino is trying to pull a fast one and make you pay its taxes? Seems to me we would be having people posting all over here about having to pay taxes if this were true! And an email? Seems you would be getting a certified letter. Sounds like phishing. I would love to hear the UK players chime in on this.

 

[EbeeDog]

Ahhh what? The banks taxing you threw me off. I thought UK gambling was non taxable, as its deemed games of chance. Only the operators are taxed. Are you sure you are not being scammed? Or, the casino is trying to pull a fast one and make you pay its taxes? Seems to me we would be having people posting all over here about having to pay taxes if this were true! And an email? Seems you would be getting a certified letter. Sounds like phishing. I would love to hear the UK players chime in on this.

At LEAST as fishy as goatwack.....:notworthy

 

[shewoff]

Here's the scenario I had a WD for $1750.00 from Mighty Slots. Now let's take into acct. that I had gotten at least $10,000.00 in winning's paid in full from them before this happened.
It was a wire transfer at the time that was about the only way to get paid in the US. It was processed and paid according to the casino. I waited the 7 working days for the wire and I got an e-mail from a UK based bank I can't remember the name But I'am looking for the e-mail as I saved it and it was over 5 years ago.

They stated that they had intercepted the wire from the casino and had taken it in return for tax'es owed by me for winning's I had for the entire year from this casino and other's in the group.Now I had never had this happen before But it was a banner year with winning's into the 6 figure area.

So maybe it was a casino rip or maybe not? All I know is that the $1750.00 was never seen by me.

And the last thing I needed was a bank asking question's about my online gaming winning's.
Now I know that Mighty Slots has become a no pay rogue but at this time they paid everything I submitted. Take it for what it is. Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

 

[pmutts]

Yeah right--it sits in pending for a month!

The Main Street Group listed in Casinomeister's Reservation section charge no withdrawal fees for bank transfers or checks sent by courier. If you're lucky enough to win there withdrawals are free. Played there last year and made a few withdrawals. Not so lucky this year. The negative issue with Main Street is long processing times. It took 2 to 4 weeks to see the funds in my bank. But I did get paid.

It's true, they will ACH you. If you have the discipline and willpower to wait 4 weeks. I've had a couple of withdrawals there and I had to stay on them constantly to get paid. I would have had several more if I had not caved in to their tactics.

Oh yes, one more thing, if you cash out more than $1000 it is automatically split into multiple withdrawals basically they will pay you 1K a month if you are lucky enough to get it.

 

[pmutts]

What a GREAT thread EbeeDog!

I somehow overlooked it until tonight. I haven't been very active in this forum for quite a while. Your OP pretty much mirrors my sentiments exactly. I could not have said it better myself.

 

[corboom]

It's true, they will ACH you. If you have the discipline and willpower to wait 4 weeks. I've had a couple of withdrawals there and I had to stay on them constantly to get paid. I would have had several more if I had not caved in to their tactics.

Oh yes, one more thing, if you cash out more than $1000 it is automatically split into multiple withdrawals basically they will pay you 1K a month if you are lucky enough to get it.

I hope it doesnt take that long. I spoke with live chat about what they would need from me and they only needed a utility bill and ID. Yesterday I got my utility bill and emailed it to them along with my ID. They approved it already and I was able to cashout. I must say that was the nicest and easiest verification. No headaches, no games.
Anyways, I cashed out a part of my balance at one of their casinos today and we will see how it goes from here. Hopefully it goes more quickly than you experienced pmutts.