stats...opinions please

jelsmith

Zombicidal Maniac
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Location
nashville tn
These are from an RTG (which im not naming but they are a trustworthy site). These SUCK Im trying to decide whether to give them up and go elsewhere or not....This is from 2 different days.....and by different game i couldnt get it all to fit

Total Amount Wagered ($) Average Bet ($) Payout Percentage
153.89 0.97 58.90%
72.00 1.00 80.60%
49.00 0.86 37.10%
19.00 1.00 22.10%
12.00 1.00 56.70%
Total: 305.89 0.96 58.20%



Total Amount Wagered ($) Average Bet ($) Payout Percentage
52.00 2.00 21.50%
70.40 1.60 48.70%
22.00 2.00 28.20%
60.00 1.62 127.60%
116.25 1.97 66.00%
36.00 1.50 30.40%
32.00 2.00 31.20%
61.89 1.35 54.00%
56.00 1.75 82.70%
150.97 1.37 34.90%
262.25 1.99 55.00%
286.00 2.00 61.60%
204.00 2.00 53.70%
Total: 1.409.76 1.80 55.90%
 

kakata

Banned User - hyper flamming
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
PABnoaccred
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Location
miami fl
it has to be Rushmore....Ive got worse than that:mad:
 

takethemoney

Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Location
Washington
Wonder if these stats are exclusive to US players?

Everyone that is having doubts about RTG's right now has good cause to doubt, IMO. They have us USA players where they want us if you think about it.
We have no PlayTech, MG, Crypto, Boss, etc., so in a sense there is no real competition driving the payouts at RTG. Sure, we have rival and a couple others, but frankly I find the slots at RTG most attractive and fun to play, just not a fan of the payouts as of late. Had it not been for my some $45,000 of RJ's hit this year, I would be behind. That said, it sure seems like a player can't win much of anything else. The RJ's seem like a lotto. Until I won them I never really had any big hits on RTG casinos this year. Back before MG and Playtech left the US market the games at RTG were definitely looser with more feature rounds being hit. It's not just in my head....something has definitely changed. We need to smack RTG back into shape and the only way I can think of is to not patronize them. So, this is my New Year's resolution to not play any RTG's until they quit the shenannigans and crack down on their rogue operator base.
 

SlotKing

New Member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Kentucky, ya'll...
The last time I played at an RTG was early December, when CWC sent me a $100 Free Chip.

It lasted all of 9 minutes on $1 bets.

Thiat was pretty much all I needed to convince me that RTG is as bad as MGS in the RTP department.

Jenn - those stats definitely suck [CENSORED CENSORED]. If I were you I would seriously consider either demanding published payout rates or taking your business elsewhere.
 

jelsmith

Zombicidal Maniac
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Location
nashville tn
I emailed the manager for that info, but will likely not get a response until Monday. When I first asked on Wed for the payout% for that day....they kinda just said "well its not good but here is a comp" they were so bad i dont think they really wanted to even type it out. I asked for more detail the next day and got it....but this STINKS. :eek:
 

GGW Laurie

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
In the Beautiful South !!
The last time I played at an RTG was early December, when CWC sent me a $100 Free Chip.

It lasted all of 9 minutes on $1 bets.

Thiat was pretty much all I needed to convince me that RTG is as bad as MGS in the RTP department.

Jenn - those stats definitely suck [CENSORED CENSORED]. If I were you I would seriously consider either demanding published payout rates or taking your business elsewhere.

As a long time player of RTG ,i also have noticed the slots are not as friendly as they were back in the day, Jel pm'ed me the name of the casino and i pm'ed back to drop them and try Inetbet, Club casinos and Jackpot Capital, she might want to give Titan a whirl, its just up to the US player to decide for themselves, ill just keep playing at the ones that treat me well , where i have some playtime entertainment for my hard earned money and with the economy the way it is now, maybe the casinos are hurting a bit too ..................laurie
 

SlotKing

New Member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Kentucky, ya'll...
Setting the limited sample size argument, the bad luck argument and the stake-stays-in-the-machine-until-its-hit arguments aside, those rates are technically illegal (but who are we to question them :rolleyes: ). Nevada sets the MINIMUM RTP at 75% (NJ at 83%) and only 3 of those sessions meet that criteria for Nevada rules, and only ONE for NJ Rules.

If this kind of thing happened in a B&M the operator would be slapped with a nasty fine (in the hundreds of thousands of dollars), or possibly, if severe enough (as this displays), stripped of their license.

If they need day after day to compile easily-accessible information by the manager, then something is off. Take your business elsewhere, as there are operators who would take much better care of you than this operator "is" (or isn't, in this case, regardless of a comp).
 
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skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
I don't think RTG's terrible RTP is stricktly a US problem. I'm Canadian and I've had terrible luck with RTG.

managed a few small withdrawals in the last few months and the casinos of course like to point these out in spite of the fact that for every small withdrawal (two of 100 and one 300) I lose my deposit quickly for the next 25 or 30 deposits.

When you point out that you have to deposit 25 dollars 30 times to have your balance reach 100 dollars one time then they just go back to "It's all random and luck."

When they are told the better the odds are the less luck you need they say they have no control over the odds. Well, someone does.

For me it all seems to revolve around the bonus features. As long as I can hit one of those once in a while I do fine but it never fails that if I get anywhere near 2x my deposit they disappear and stay gone for the next 2 or 3 deposits.

I can't even discuss payout percentages with a casino. There's nothing I hate worse than a casino telling me how great my payout percentage was when my balance never exceeded my deposit and never increased more than a buck or two even after a bonus feature before I went broke.
 

DogBoy001

Senior Member
webmeister
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Location
Great Southern Land
Setting the limited sample size argument, the bad luck argument and the stake-stays-in-the-machine-until-its-hit arguments aside, those rates are technically illegal. Nevada sets the MINIMUM RTP at 75% (NJ at 83%) and only 3 of those sessions meet that criteria for Nevada rules, and only ONE for NJ Rules.

Well if you set aside limited number of spins, I suppose if you have a dozen spins on any provider and get no hit, that would be "illegal" too, wouldn't it?

That argument makes no sense.

Having done extensive work in land-based systems, those stats are poor, but hardly indicative of anything untoward.
I have had worse sessions on Aristocrat, IGT, WMS, Bally and numerous other physical slots...does that mean all these manufacturers are doing something "illegal"?

No. It says the games are random and occasionally the stats are going suck in any given session.

RTP on small sample sizes is a skewed distribution pattern, statistically extreme. The stats suck, but given the low number of spins it can happen.

It seems there are contradictory philosophies being touted of late: The desire to have random spinning reel slots, and yet the desire to have consistent return to player.

Woooof
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
DogBoy001: No. It says the games are random and occasionally the stats are going suck in any given session.
Sure it does and it seems more and more are finally getting the picture that is the NORM now for these casinos...all due respect DogBoy001, I understand your stance that this is normal for such a small number of spins and stats...but for how many players is it going to take to show you this is no longer a NORMAL thing happening and you cannot force us to believe anymore with all your variance/rtp's etc...diversions???

The casinos/spins/bonus/payouts have changed...are you not getting this???...we are aware of this now...and no longer follow the mentality that has been shoved down our throats for the last few years by all the casinos pablum...about bad run, bad luck, rtp, etc...but 99% of us cannot be all wrong now can we???

How many players will it take and how many spins to show you that these stats are what they are for 99% of us anymore...sure, say it...eveyone has a bad run/bad luck etc...and nothing has changed,...(in a pigs ear) which has been your rote too for some unknown reason except you are affiliated and have a stake I would imagine (if I am wrong, apologies, but I do not feel wrong)...
takethemoney: Back before MG and Playtech left the US market the games at RTG were definitely looser with more feature rounds being hit. It's not just in my head....something has definitely changed. We need to smack RTG back into shape and the only way I can think of is to not patronize them. So, this is my New Year's resolution to not play any RTG's until they quit the shenannigans and crack down on their rogue operator base.
takethemoney has hit the nail on the head and there is no more pablum left to feed us to make us believe all is the same...even yours with your affiliations...which means that you do know things but are not willing (or unable) to share except for the same ole same ole...as the casinos are...

Time for you to go back to them and tell them, since you are in the know...that WE KNOW....and are not as stupid or desparate to play as they thought we would be..and are not willing to accept what they have done to the games/play/payouts/sessions without recourse.

One thing I feel is that you have been a very respected member for a long time and had given a lot of good info to us as players ...but now it seems you are unwilling to even consider the changes, that we as players KNOW have been done and that is where I feel you are not being all that truthful anymore on this point..

I have absolutley no animosity towards you, just a sense of sadness..since your believabilty has been lessened for what??? For "PROOF" that cannot be attained...that you demand each and every time..and you know it cannot so you continue to ask..to try and make one look bad to make you look more believable but ...JMO on this last thought..

.
 
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SlotKing

New Member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Kentucky, ya'll...
Well if you set aside limited number of spins, I suppose if you have a dozen spins on any provider and get no hit, that would be "illegal" too, wouldn't it?

I'm not saying that... I'm just saying that over her sessions, which are brutally bad, it makes Nevada and AC look like gold mines.

Having done extensive work in land-based systems, those stats are poor, but hardly indicative of anything untoward.
I have had worse sessions on Aristocrat, IGT, WMS, Bally and numerous other physical slots...does that mean all these manufacturers are doing something "illegal"?

No. It says the games are random and occasionally the stats are going suck in any given session.

Most players, myself included, understand this (I just had a 15% session on a slot the other day). It's when stats that are like this repeat themselves continuously over several days, weeks, months, etc, that has us questioning what is wrong with the big picture.


RTP on small sample sizes is a skewed distribution pattern, statistically extreme. The stats suck, but given the low number of spins it can happen.

It seems there are contradictory philosophies being touted of late: The desire to have random spinning reel slots, and yet the desire to have consistent return to player.

If not for our psychological need to have fulfillment in our quest for entertainment, we wouldn't be having a discussion like this. Most of this is the inner psyche desiring two things, which, scientifically, seem improbable to bring together, however we try to find some way to do it anyhow.

On a side note, you are one of the best posters here. Never change that.
 

rockycatt

meistercatt
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Location
Boston
In just a few words

the best time to take the wool off the sheep is when there all in the barn

thank you RC
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Yep those sessions suck. Definitely. Ive had some of those myself.

Seriously though.....surely nobody is really suggesting that US RTG players have lower payouts than everyone else? How do you think they implement this? You would have to believe they can and do adjust RTP at the individual account level, and I just dont see how that can happen.

As long as Ive been around here, players have been posting about payouts being reduced and less bonus rounds and getting ripped off....if this were really the case consistently over a 5 year period nobody would be playing anywhere as nobody would be winning anything at all....and I know for a fact that people do win at RTG and Im sure some of them are American.

If you feel RTG really does suck big time, then play elsewhere....I know your choices are limited these days but not zero, however if you dont like the others either then dont play at all. I cant see the point of continuing to play somewhere when you feel you're being taken advantage of and posting here afterwards about how bad it is. If you put your hand in a lions' cage and had it bitten off, why would you go back and put your other hand in?

Im not trying to be unsympathetic.....I know what its like to have a bad run....just trying to be realistic.

Everyone would do well to listen to what dogboy says. He knows more than any of us combined when it comes to RTG slots (and slots in general) and Ive never seen any post of his that contains anything but factual technical information to help us better understand the games we play. RTG isnt the only company he works with, so I doubt he would be interested in player retention or spruiking the merits of RTG as a company.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
Nifty 29: Seriously though.....surely nobody is really suggesting that US RTG players have lower payouts than everyone else?
No one is saying this but the thought has been brought up that maybe this is to reflect what is happening all around the casino arenas..
Nifty29:if this were really the case consistently over a 5 year period
Nifty29, where are you reading this 5 year thing??? No one is saying it has been going on that long..it only has been in the recent years..as in about the last 2 that many have come to feel and know there have been changes that NO ONE will admit too .....everyone cannot be having the same experiences and say...it's a fluke..(when I say everyone I am meaning the majority of players today)
Nifty29:I know what its like to have a bad run....just trying to be realistic.
No offense..but it's pablum again..and the herd mentality
Everyone would do well to listen to what dogboy says. He knows more than any of us combined when it comes to RTG slots (and slots in general) and Ive never seen any post of his that contains anything but factual technical information to help us better understand the games we play. RTG isnt the only company he works with, so I doubt he would be interested in player retention or spruiking the merits of RTG as a company.
And that is my point..he knows more than he can say IMO...and since he also said that they know he is posting on a forum..he must keep it technical etc, he has his agenda/investment/affiliation in players continuing to play, don't you think??? Maybe job security...JM thoughts..maybe he will come and post again...

Nifty29:If you feel RTG really does suck big time, then play elsewhere
Yes, yes, yes...peat and repeat...already moved on...just waiting for the next shoe to fall so we can get back to the real online gaming in the USA..

The point I am trying to make is that there has been changes and no one with an affiliation will or can? own up to it..because it is not in their best interest.

I read where you are very vocal and very passionate about your ideals on another thread and feel very much about things...same goes for me..I hate when I am being told I do not know what I am saying and I dreamed up all these changes..like a dream..then I show two that I can somewhat "prove" and then told they do not count by no other than DogBoy001 of course...WHAT???? DogBoy001 can only say so much...IMO.

.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
read where you are very vocal and very passionate about your ideals on another thread and feel very much about things...same goes for me..I hate when I am being told I do not know what I am saying

Yep I know you feel then....I certainly dont think that about you at all. Passion is a wonderful thing it has been the driving force for most of the worlds' creations (good and bad). Your opinion is as important as anyone elses.

re: the 5 yr thing..thats how long Ive been here posting. Ive been back via the wayback machine and you would be surprised how many threads there are about MG payouts decreasing and less bonus rounds than there used to be etc...much the same as we see now. Its possible, of course, they were wrong back then and you guys are right now....who knows? Unless we have access to the casino backend, which none of us ever will, it will be all conjecture :)
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
Nifty29: who knows? Unless we have access to the casino backend, which none of us ever will, it will be all conjecture
Exactly..only the ones in the know actually can say this...but then we have a few "tweaks" that have gone bad such as the double pears on a reel and the reduction in payout on Greenlight ..etc, but we are supposed to "overlook " these changes..they do not count..

I cannot imagine how many other changes we really have overlooked thinking we imagined it when we really didn't..don't you???
.
 
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