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Stan james- this seemed a little odd.

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Birdy84, Jun 18, 2014.

    Jun 18, 2014
  1. Birdy84

    Birdy84 Experienced Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    carer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I signed up with stan james around a week ago and had a look around the site,i returned today to take up the welcome offer but was given a message that my account had been blocked due to spin abuse, odd i thought. They currently have 5 free spins when you register an account and below is their explanation about the "abuse". I'm not sure if its just me maybe this is normal but i have never come across this before and ive played at many different casinos. If it was a long period of time i would understand but it wasn't. I only claimed the 5 free spins that everyone automatically gets when they register an account.

    [Daniella] Hello welcome to Stan James live support, how may I help you ?
    [Visitor] hi i have a message on the login saying casino spins abuse account locked im not sure what this is about
    [Daniella] Can I take your username please?
    [Visitor] sure its ********
    [Daniella] One moment please.
    [Visitor] no problem
    [Daniella] The account has been closed as we believe the account is being used, purely for promotions.
    [Visitor] Could you explain this further please?
    [Daniella] The account is following a pattern for casino abuse as nothing has been deposited and you have only used free spins in the casino.
    [Visitor] I have never come across that anywhere before? i enquired on the same day regarding a welcome offer and wanted to think it over i think it is somewhat irresponsibile to claim abuse for not depositing on registration no?
    [Daniella] As stated, it does follow a pattern we have seen in the pass. With no card being added, it shows there may have been no intention of depositing, and only claiming the free spins/promotions.
    [Daniella] Which in your case, is what has happened.
    [Visitor] can you link me the terms that show the account will be closed if a player doesn't deposit within a certain amount of time of an account being opened.
    [Daniella] 3.1 Stan James reserves the right to refuse to open any account or to close or suspend any account at any time in its absolute discretion. Where an account is closed or suspended, you should contact Customer Services for further information
    [Visitor] i haven't deposited yet this doesn't mean i wasn't planning on doing so i have deposited and played at many casinos recently so im pretty offended to be acused of account abuse on the basis i didn't make a deposit straight away
    [Daniella] I'm sorry you feel that way Daniella. As a gesture of goodwill, I can re-open the account for you now, on the basis that no further free bets or spins will be credited, with no deposit being made?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2014
  2. Jun 18, 2014
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's very odd indeed. They cannot possibly have enough data to draw such a conclusion. It's like making 5 spins on a slot and concluding that it's a crap game not likely to give any decent payouts.

    Obviously, if someone WAS intending to only use an account for promotions, they would first take the 5 spins, but there is nothing to differentiate between this and someone signing up with an intention of playing with their own funds. Only the second account action would give them 2 data points that might allow them to hazard a guess about the intent, such as the next action being to claim the next free chip or free spins. Rather than throw accusations around, they should simply have their software lock non depositing players out of receiving any further freebies until after their first deposit. The "spin abusers" will find they can't claim any more and will probably go away, and the genuine player will not notice because their next transaction would be a deposit.

    They only way they COULD have enough data to reach such a conclusion is if they have data about what players have done at their competitors, such as past instances of only claiming the free spins or chip and just moving on. Of course possessing and using such data would be illegal under the Data Protection Act, but we know that casinos licensed in several offshore jurisdictions DO share play history between casinos, even if they try to skirt around the rules by sharing only a "rating", rather than the actual data.

    It makes me wonder whether casinos DO have something like "Experian for casinos", where players are rated according to the likelihood of them making a profit for the casino, and that casinos do a "player check" with this database just as a mobile phone company might run a "credit check" that could result in them denying someone a phone for "no reason" (other than they didn't like what they got back from the ratings agency).

    In theory, casinos could do this, but they would have to ask permission from the player to run this "ratings check", and also name the third party that holds the data and provides the rating.
     
  4. Jun 18, 2014
  5. Birdy84

    Birdy84 Experienced Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    carer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is what i thought im not sure how you can claim a pattern has formed off one free offer being claimed, i didn't take them up on the good will gesture to re open the account anyway so it's hurt them more than it has myself. With regards to a database iv'e played at quite a few places over the past year or so without an issue i think it was more a case they are jumping the gun maybe they have had a lot of issues with bad players but those accusations will put off any genuine ones, not doing themselves any favours really. Plus the term they linked is very vague and seems like it can be manipulated to their favour for many situations. I think one to avoid.
     
  6. Jun 18, 2014
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is Stan James, not some clip joint, so it is even more surprising. All they have got right is that players who want to only play freebies will start with the 5 free spins, but so will everybody else (except those who don't want bonuses in any case). Whatever they have in the way of a pattern, they are talking bollocks in their explanation of "spin abuse" being the reason.

    Maybe they should get rid of these 5 free spins if they are triggering account closure (which is a pretty drastic reaction in itself) based solely on players taking the free spins, and then not depositing immediately afterwards. Who knows, they might have a responsible gambler on their hands who is waiting to see just how much spare cash they can afford once they have budgeted for the month. To claim that the lack of a registered card adds to the pattern is also bogus, as there is no point in registering a deposit method until the time has come to make a deposit, and then it could come from any one of a number of methods, not all of which require registration before use.

    I have never registered a deposit method until I am ready to make a first deposit. I sometimes register an account in advance to give them time to decide whether there are any flags raised that might cause it to be locked. I would rather have it locked before depositing rather than finding that I have deposited and played too soon, only to have the account locked in the middle of play because the system has returned some flag that requires an action such as sending in documents, receiving a verification call, etc. If some free spins were added straight after registering, of course I would play them straight away, else they might expire. I would not expect to win and withdraw from them.
     
  8. Jun 18, 2014
  9. Birdy84

    Birdy84 Experienced Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    carer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    To be honest iv'e seen the adverts and heard the name but i don't know much of the reputation of stan james, but i hope that people considering them may see this and tread carefully at least. I also dont register a deposit method straight away i generally pay with online wallets so no registering to do there anyway. Cheers for the response nice to know im not just being a bit mad.
     
  10. Jun 18, 2014
  11. catapultaudio

    catapultaudio Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Computer Programmer
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    Do Stan James have a rep here who might be able to offer a few words about this? It does really surprise me from them, I've had nothing but great experience there, and even though I haven't deposited much recently I still receive the occasional freebie without issue including cashing out from the 3 free sunday spree a couple of times of late.
     
  12. Jun 18, 2014
  13. Mark_32Red

    Mark_32Red Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos

    Occupation:
    Head of Marketing
    Location:
    32Red Marketing Dpt
    @The OP - you may want to edit your surname out of your post.

    Mark
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Jun 18, 2014
  15. syntynyt

    syntynyt kuollut

    Location:
    ~
    same here. i stopped depositing there in 2013 as i played mainly poker here but they still send time to time free offers.
    few days ago i received $20 for a blaze poker promotion. i made 153/200 loyalty points requied and lost but was a great ride for free.
    i never used their casino but in poker they used to be through the best MG rooms with exclusive tourneys with big $$$ added and affordable buyins.
     
  16. Jun 18, 2014
  17. Birdy84

    Birdy84 Experienced Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    carer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Thanks for pointing it out mark, the option to edit it is no longer showing for me though so it will have to be unless someone can alter it for me.
     
  18. Jun 18, 2014
  19. Mark_32Red

    Mark_32Red Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos

    Occupation:
    Head of Marketing
    Location:
    32Red Marketing Dpt
    I've reported the thread for you. :)

    Hope you get the issue sorted.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Jun 18, 2014
  21. Jory

    Jory Senior Member webby

    Occupation:
    Statistical Analysis and Data Reconfiguration
    Location:
    Belfast - Northern Ireland
    Did you join Stan James from an affiliated site?

    Joining from a website that lists lots of casino no deposit bonuses can raise a flag. They get a lot of people joining who are just "doing the rounds" and claiming all freebies with no intention of depositing anywhere.

    As you did not deposit after joining, they may have considered you as being one of these players.
     
  22. Jun 18, 2014
  23. Birdy84

    Birdy84 Experienced Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    carer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Hey, not as far as i remember no. I mostly only sign up via affiliates if there is a special welcome bonus for depositing. The advisor didn't specify anything other than what was in my original post as to why this had occured so i can only go off the information they gave me. If i had done something wrong that i was made aware of i would have no issue with the action they took but all they have said is that it's because i didn't register a payment method and deposit after registering. So it's a mystery to me really.
     
  24. Jun 19, 2014
  25. Mouche12

    Mouche12 Kitty Lover PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Translator and facilities manager
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    I think it's very odd too, and in addition to what VWM said, casinos usually state that free spins are only for players who have made (at least) one deposit in the past, or during the last XX days.
     
  26. Jun 19, 2014
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Well, they are still allowing said affiliate to have an affiliate account, so if it's "bad traffic" they are getting, they only have themselves to blame for not taking action against the affiliate, such as telling them they don't like the way they are being promoted, or even cancelling their affiliate account.
     
  28. Jun 19, 2014
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Maybe the only thing you did wrong was not depositing straight away, but taking some time to think about it. For all they know, it could have been due to technical problems you were experiencing, they didn't bother to ask.

    Many players discover technical problems with a site once they have joined, often when trying out the games with a freebie. They may complain, but they may also assume it to be a temporary issue, and just leave it for a while before trying again. Sometimes players think they are not going back, but after a while have second thoughts and give it another go. If they get a new set of problems on this second go, they may decide, as you have, not to bother any longer.

    What can make it hard to move on is the sense that you have been accused of something, and they won't say what, other than to make matters worse by saying you are one of a very small minority of players that suffered the fate, which only convinces you even more that you have been accused of something.

    If someone is wrongly accused, they naturally want to clear their name, even if they have decided not to patronise said business again. In this industry, walking away can sometimes be a mistake, because if what happened is down to incorrect data, it could end up being passed around a number of sites that use the same source, and who might do far worse than close an account, they may use the data to void winnings based on some "crime" that you have committed at another casino which has come to light on a shared database.

    It is similar to when I joined Unibet some while ago. The deposit page just didn't work, and it gave no indication of what the error might be. I tried again and again, a few days apart, all with no luck. I then emailed support, no reply, so I gave up. Maybe they have now closed the account for "timewasting abuse" because I have never deposited, nor used a freebie. In reality, all they need have done is reply to my email, and I could have become a regular player once the deposits had been fixed. In short, they didn't have enough data to determine much about my intent.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Jun 19, 2014
  31. lcfc80

    lcfc80 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    affiliate marketer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    stan james are getting bad press in a few places, there is a good thread on gpwa about them closing affiliate accounts and one poster goes into quite some details about their financial performance and records
     
  32. Jun 19, 2014
  33. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Thats 1 thing that gets to me, Blocking / banning players, If they gona ban people for using free spins than do not give up out
     
  34. Jun 19, 2014
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I saw that thread. It looks like they are over zealous when it comes to banning players because they have an "accept no winners" policy. Rather than having done anything wrong, the OP didn't follow the pattern they expected of a "mug punter", so it was nothing to do with this "spin abuse", but more to do with them realising this was not the account of a "mug punter". Enough to shut it down as it MIGHT be an account more likely to end up a winner because the play isn't loose enough for it to be someone who just bets at random without considering the odds or the form. They are also after sports betting players, so an account that has only shown an interest in the casino might get shut down.

    They are also shutting down numerous affiliates for "poor performance", yet this includes affiliates that generate up to 20 new accounts per month, this is still seemingly "poor performance" in the eyes of their program manager. This had the small affiliates up in arms, and then they produced yet another excuse, they could not afford to take any more referrals from affiliates that had sent them more winning players than expected, so were shutting down these affiliate accounts regardless of how good they were at bringing new players.

    What has REALLY got them all steamed up though is that this action also means they are not going to pay the commissions due on the players referred up to the date of closure, but generated by those players from play after the affiliate account has been closed. Some have speculated that they are doing all of this before the world cup so that the affected affiliates will not receive anything for the world cup betting done by their referred players.

    The financial records were then presented as a possible explanation for all this, and do suggest serious cash flow issues and a steady haemorrhage of funds from the group over the past 3 years. If they are prepared to risk a general blacklisting by affiliates in order to save money, then maybe players should be concerned that cashflow problems might prevent them getting paid should there be a punter friendly set of outcomes in the World Cup.

    Having one's account closed for this bogus "spin abuse" excuse may well have been a blessing.

    They should be looking to history to see what happened when Grand Prive pulled a similar stunt on affiliates.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Dec 23, 2015
  37. super

    super Dormant account

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    canada
    Stan James is just nothing but rogue site always bully players whatever they like

    Stan James is just nothing but rogue site always bully players whatever they like.
    When you not lossing temporary,
    they try all they can to not to pay or delay pay your promotion bonus which you suppose to get.
    Whenever there is anything wrong caused by tricky sneaky promotion "details about terms and conditions".

    They told u nothing but :" There is nothing I can do now."
    No matter if you caught them hard on the facts or try to argue with them.

    They told u nothing but :" I have no further bonuses, spins, goodwill gestures or loyalty bonuses available. Nothing else will be credited today."

    Never Never Ever Ever deposit at Stan James Casino, Stan James Games, Stan James Poker. This is the best way U won't regret for playing
    casino or poker online.
     

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