Slots of Fortune "Bonus"...again, wtf?

[winbig]

My god. Is this "Take advantage of players that don't know any better" month when it comes to casinos giving out "bonuses?" Yes, I put bonuses in quotes for a reason.

This latest "bonus" offer I got from Slots of Fortune takes the cake. If I didn't know any better, I would have thought that the Virtual group had bought them out overnight.

1: 500% "bonus", up to $125 ($25 min AND max deposit)
2: 10x MAX withdrawal
3: 65x(D+B!!!!) wagering ($9750) - Can also be construed as 390xD!
4: Sticky "bonus"
5: Min Cashout(!!) 1x (D+B)
ok, here's the kicker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6: THE T&C WERE NOT in the e-mail offer, nor was there any link to them. Their website had no mention of this offer. I had to contact them via email to receive the T&C (listed below.) I assume that these T&C were inside the casino, but there's no way I'm downloading and reinstalling the casino after I heard about the details of this offer. IMO, this is bordering on roguish, but take it as you may.....it just seems to me that they're taking advantage of players that don't know any better.

Basically, unless you are EXTREMELY lucky, there's no chance in hell you're going to be able to cash out from this "bonus." Even with a 98% RTP (overly generous), it's STILL -EV, by $45 (or is my math off?)

side note: Yes, I know these bonuses are "take it or leave it," but my god, do they think all players don't have a clue?

Dear xxxxx,

Following up on your email.

Please find below the requirements for the 500% Exclusive Bonus!!

Please note that this promotion is a slots-only promotion. Wagering on other games than slots can result in your winnings being void by the casino when you request a withdrawal.

Wagering: 390 X deposit [65.00 X (D+B)]
Min. Deposit: 25.00
Max. Deposit: 25.00
Min. Cashout: 1.0x bonus + deposit
Max. Cashout: 10X bonus
Sticky: Sticky

Thank you for understanding.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

Sincerely,
<name removed to protect the guilty>
Slots of Fortune Customer Service

 

[chuchu59]

They must be living on hard times. They want your $25 so badly.

 

[Nifty29]

What an absolute load of cr*p.

 

[SoF]

Hello,

First of all I would like to thank you for taking your time and opening an account at Slots of Fortune.

We would like to clarify here that standard bonus terms apply for all bonuses and are listed on our site.

More specifically in regards to your complaint, specific bonus terms for each promotion are listed inside the Cashier Section.

At our casino it is impossible to claim a bonus without being presented with the bonus terms.

In order to claim a bonus at Slots of Fortune you have to visit the cashier and click on the promotion you are interested in. Once you have clicked the bonus, you are transferred to the next screen in which the complete terms of the specific promotion are displayed; finally on the same screen you are prompted to verify that you want to claim the promotion.

All bonus terms and conditions are disclosed to players on the aforementioned software section. We are using this system for higher transparency and to minimize any potential human errors.

Our support team acted in a professional and transparent manner by providing you with the complete bonus terms by email.

In regards to your accusation of taking advantage of players, this is not our intention. We want our players to have an entertaining gaming experience, please take into consideration that the promotion you were referring to is a high bonus in which we give players the chance to increase their bankroll by 500% with the house's money!

Our casino is designed to offer high payout slots and it has been embraced as such a property. Slots of Fortune does not have any payout complaints and players are always paid promptly. We are delighted to have some loyal players and winners that are members of the Casinomeister forum and we would like to thank them for notifying us of the existence of this thread.

Unless you have any solid evidence of "roguish" behavior we will appreciate if you or the moderators review this post and consider removing reference to such accusations in the thread title and the remaining post.

Player Relations
Slots of Fortune

 

[kmay87]

Hello...

In regards to your accusation of taking advantage of players, this is not our intention. We want our players to have an entertaining gaming experience, please take into consideration that the promotion you were referring to is a high bonus in which we give players the chance to increase their bankroll by 500% with the house's money!

Our casino is designed to offer high payout slots and it has been embraced as such a property. Slots of Fortune does not have any payout complaints and players are always paid promptly. We are delighted to have some loyal players and winners that are members of the Casinomeister forum and we would like to thank them for notifying us of the existence of this thread.

Unless you have any solid evidence of "roguish" behavior we will appreciate if you or the moderators review this post and consider removing reference to such accusations in the thread title and the remaining post.

Player Relations
Slots of Fortune

Personally, I think you have taken this the wrong way.

I don't believe I have played at your casino before, so I have no reason to disbelieve the facts you have stated.

However, what winbig was getting at (I think anyway ) is that a 390x WR on a STICKY bonus is extreme at the least. And slots only Many of us would think twice about a 30x bonus (as in the case of Intercasino) so this is quite frankly, unbelievable. Combined with a minimum cashout, AND a maximum, and what you are actually offering is very limited. If someone is lucky enough to make a withdrawal, the emphasis on lucky, they can make quite a bit on their initial deposit. I'll give you that.

I've bolded a couple of points. Firstly, you say you boost a players' account by 500%. The big issue I see here is that many players are going to come along, see this massive bonus - at a reputable casino - and no doubt take it. Fair enough, it might only cost them $25, but this multiplied many times adds up to one hell of a lot. And let's be honest here, the odds are stacked way in favour of the casino. In my opinion, it's offering a bit of false hope. Sometimes I've taken these bonuses just because it gives me the chance for a bit of high rolling. So if players are aware that their chances of cashing out are limited, but they are only playing because they want to try something different, then fair enough.

And fundamentally here, although you are giving the player a generous amount, you're taking it back afterwards. I can't see a feasible way of cashing out here.

Secondly, you say you offer high payout slots. This tells me one thing - high variance. Perhaps this is why you are offering such a high bonus. With a standard 100/200% one players could go through their entire deposit and bonus without hitting a thing. So by giving 500%, with me being cynical here, you are giving players a good chance of hitting big, and so getting a taste of the machines, but they probably won't be able to cash it out. Therefore they make fresh deposits, and because of this high variance, they lose. Again, it's a win-win situation for the casino.

All that aside, I think you should be commended for the speed in which you signed up and replied to this . It shows that clearly you value player relations highly, and overall you are not roguish. But winbig wasn't suggesting the casino as a whole was. Simply these bonus terms. In your opinion, do you really think they are favourable to players?

 

[oldtrvlagt]

I agree with kmay the rep did respond with incredible speed. The rest was pretty much summed up by winbig and kmay's discussion of the bonus. It is almost the same as the Vegas Regal one I posted about last week. Rival's are coming out with (IMHO) some ridiculous offers to lure people in. If in fact they do hit it big (and let me tell you from personal experience if you like the Scary's it takes a LOOONNGG time to hit a good feature) you are not going to be able to cash out what it should be worth. It is a false sense of hope, then it is discouraging, then annoying. Why would you want to offer players something like this when people are going to get frustrated and uninstall the casino?

Just my thoughts but it makes me want to stay away...NOT PLAY!

 

[Simmo!]

One good thing about the Rival platform is that when you claim a bonus, the T&C's are presented to you very clearly with a "Claim Now" button. Something in fact that MG etc could learn from. The 65x does seem very high it must be said and it should be in the email, or at least a link to the T&C's, but at least it's very transparent before you physically accept the bonus in the casino.

 

[winbig]

The 65x does seem very high it must be said and it should be in the email, or at least a link to the T&C's, but at least it's very transparent before you physically accept the bonus in the casino.

Yep, transparency is the main concern I was pointing out. I understand that they weren't trying to hide anything, judging by the speed that SoF replied to my email in regards to outlining the T&C, but I really don't see a reason that these couldn't have been included in the original email, or at least put on their website, for easy access.

I had uninstalled Rival casinos not too long ago; because I could never hit anything good there; mainly because of the ultra-high-variance slots (I thought 3Dice's slots were high variance, but Rival takes the cake IMO.) If this promotion had reasonable terms, I may have actually re-downloaded SoF's client again and deposited, but now, there's no way that's going to happen.

Some constructive criticism:

Not long ago, it was posted here at CM that all Rival casinos share the same back-end RNG, and casinos can't change the payout %'s on an individual basis. The only thing that sets each Rival casino apart from each other are cashout times, support, loyalty programs and finally, bonuses.

If you want to retain current players and attract new players, I would seriously reconsider the wagering requirements for bonus offers that you guys are sending out...bonuses with absurd requirements, such as this one, only pushes players away; because there are plenty of other Rivals out there that have much more to offer.

edit: And to clarify why I labeled this thread "Roguish" is because the T&C were not listed in the email, and were nowhere to be found on your website. I associate that with the way many rogue casinos (mostly RTG) operate, but if the mods want to change the title, that's fine with me...

 

[kmay87]

It surely can't be that difficult to make a slight change in the promo emails to cater for a link to the terms. I know how the system works, and I do like how it lists in simple format every single requirement if you take the bonus.

You would think that if people took the time to download the casino, they are probably going to play anyway, irrespective of what the small print might say. But I'd sooner like to know what I'm getting myself into before I consider taking the bonus.

I believe that if you are being offered something, you shouldn't be expected to have to conduct 'research' such as in the case here. A note to the rep - I wouldn't view any of these messages as criticism of your casino. More, as winbig said, constructive criticism from players and potential players. One of the great advantages of this forum is that a strong bond can be formed between the casino and the players.

In any business, the customer is most important. There are always people here that are willing to give you feedback on what's good and what's not; there's nothing better than having people on hand to vet and deconstruct anything and everything

 

[chuchu59]

Hello,

First of all I would like to thank you for taking your time and opening an account at Slots of Fortune.

We would like to clarify here that standard bonus terms apply for all bonuses and are listed on our site.

More specifically in regards to your complaint, specific bonus terms for each promotion are listed inside the Cashier Section.

At our casino it is impossible to claim a bonus without being presented with the bonus terms.

In order to claim a bonus at Slots of Fortune you have to visit the cashier and click on the promotion you are interested in. Once you have clicked the bonus, you are transferred to the next screen in which the complete terms of the specific promotion are displayed; finally on the same screen you are prompted to verify that you want to claim the promotion.

All bonus terms and conditions are disclosed to players on the aforementioned software section. We are using this system for higher transparency and to minimize any potential human errors.

Our support team acted in a professional and transparent manner by providing you with the complete bonus terms by email.

In regards to your accusation of taking advantage of players, this is not our intention. We want our players to have an entertaining gaming experience, please take into consideration that the promotion you were referring to is a high bonus in which we give players the chance to increase their bankroll by 500% with the house's money!

Our casino is designed to offer high payout slots and it has been embraced as such a property. Slots of Fortune does not have any payout complaints and players are always paid promptly. We are delighted to have some loyal players and winners that are members of the Casinomeister forum and we would like to thank them for notifying us of the existence of this thread.

Unless you have any solid evidence of "roguish" behavior we will appreciate if you or the moderators review this post and consider removing reference to such accusations in the thread title and the remaining post.

Player Relations
Slots of Fortune

While I wont say the casino is rouguish, it is certainly trying to extract $25 from players who have an impossible task ahead trying to meet WRs. You have to wager $9750 before making a cashout and which is capped at $1,250 (I certainly hope it isnt $250). If you start off with $1 spins and you are lucky to hit big at one of the scaries and have your balance at say $1000 after having achieved $150 in playthrough. Unless you hit big again at something else, your bankroll will dwindle whilst trying to meet the WRs and you may be lucky to even cash out $400 or $500. Even if you are extremely lucky, they cap your withdrawal and wont let you salvage what is left of your $25 if you have a balance that is just below $150 after meeting WRs.

There should be amicable relationships between players and casinos. While many of us have at one time or another been accused of being bonus absuers, this sort of thing is rather the reverse. The playthrough must be calculated in such a way that it is possible to meet eg 10 (D+B) for 100% matches with sticky bonuses and 15-20x playthrough with cashable bonuses. Ridiculous playthrough requirements coupled with sticky bonuses and max. and min. cashouts only serve to alienate the players and remind them that this is a casino to avoid.

As for the casino not providing the Ts and Cs in emails, this is an area which requires improvement because ultimately players will need to think of these as good offers before entering or re-downloading the casinos in question. If you have these absurd offers which few will take, it will be a case of 'once bitten, twice shy and nobody would bother looking at the terms new offers again though they may now be more attractive.

The fact that players should take up bonus offers at their own discretion remain valid. However, in these extreme cases, the relationship will be destroyed if such outrageous offers continue to trickle in.

 

[SoF]

We would like to thank all of you for taking your time and sharing your thoughts. We are always pleased with receiving feedback regardless if it is positive or not. Your suggestions will help us improve our property and offer a better service.

Websites serve as an informational medium, if terms are listed on a website or inside the software they are fairly available to players at the same extent. What complicated the issue is that the software was uninstalled from the customers end and this factor will be taken into consideration for certain promotions. We have already passed this to our retention.

In regards to transparency we would like to point out that having customers view the bonus terms and conditions just when they are ready to finalize a purchase for some other casinos maybe considered as an unnecessary marketing barrier. However our software supplier and Slots of Fortune have taken the decision to give priority to transparency in this field rather on just finalizing purchases.

No matter where you play we wish you a great day and good luck with your gaming!

Player Relations
Slots of Fortune

 

[winbig]

edit: <snip>, read below

 

[winbig]

We could go on and on beating a dead horse, but I'll stop...


I just hope you guys take to heart the comments and facts that have been posted by myself and others here in this thread.

But I have this nagging feeling that you guys won't be looking into reviewing and making appropriate changes to the unbearable terms of future promotions? Please prove me wrong.

 

[Simmo!]

Important also to remember the bonus at SoF and other Rivals is optional. I just encountered a casino where you don't have a choice but to take the bonus with 30x WR. Now that's close to roguish IMO.

So for the record, and on the basis that Rival s/ware shows the terms very clearly on the bonus "Claim" page in the Cashier itself, plus it's optional, I've removed the "Roguish" prefix on the thread. If there was a "Harsh WR" prefix, I'd have added that

 

[winbig]

Important also to remember the bonus at SoF and other Rivals is optional. I just encountered a casino where you don't have a choice but to take the bonus with 30x WR. Now that's close to roguish IMO.

So for the record, and on the basis that Rival s/ware shows the terms very clearly on the bonus "Claim" page in the Cashier itself, plus it's optional, I've removed the "Roguish" prefix on the thread. If there was a "Harsh WR" prefix, I'd have added that

Yes, the bonuses are optional, but the point of this thread was to maybe open their eyes and see how people actually think of their bonuses. But, they're the ones that are getting hurt by doing this, as I had mentioned before, there's not much that sets Rival casinos apart from one another.

The help is in this thread, if they choose to take it. It's outta our hands.

 

[Pinababy69]

I have to say I'm with Chuchu on this one.

While casinos are not obligated to offer any bonuses at all, and customers are under no obligation to accept this one in particular.....this type of offer is an insult, to say the least.

As Chuchu mentioned, it would be very near impossible to ever cashout on this, unless you got lucky and hit a HUGE win on one of the very high variance slots, or a progressive. And imagine hitting a progressive, and then only being able to cashout $1,250 of it.

I have to echo what Chuchu said in a previous post...this casino must be pretty hard up for $25 deposits if this is the best they can do. They would do better offering no bonus at all. I just have to wonder how many players take them up on this type of offer, without really calculating or understanding, the odds of ever reaching cashout territory. May as well play in fun mode.

 

[Simmo!]

I sometimes wonder if casinos stick prohibitively high WR's on bonuses because they would prefer not to offer a bonus, but while everyone else offers one, they can't afford to be seen not to.

I often thought that if I ran a casino, I'd like it to be one with no signup bonus, and better loyalty deals instead. But conversely, I wonder whether it could ever be competitive in attracting new customers. Even those casinos that get it right and benefit from word of mouth still offer a signup bonus. Clearly word of mouth alone isn't enough. Rock and a hard place.

Incidentally, there's even a Wagerworks casino that has 75x WR (B only) in place on one bonus.

 

[kmay87]

I have to say I'm with Chuchu on this one.

While casinos are not obligated to offer any bonuses at all, and customers are under no obligation to accept this one in particular.....this type of offer is an insult, to say the least.

As Chuchu mentioned, it would be very near impossible to ever cashout on this, unless you got lucky and hit a HUGE win on one of the very high variance slots, or a progressive. And imagine hitting a progressive, and then only being able to cashout $1,250 of it.

I have to echo what Chuchu said in a previous post...this casino must be pretty hard up for $25 deposits if this is the best they can do. They would do better offering no bonus at all. I just have to wonder how many players take them up on this type of offer, without really calculating or understanding, the odds of ever reaching cashout territory. May as well play in fun mode.

That's exactly it. When I first read this thread, I actually considered it. I thought about doing a bit of high rolling - hardly ever do I get the chance to do that. But I couldn't agree more with your final comment. Someone could take this up, do $20 spins or whatever, but in theory whatever they do or don't hit is all relative - the fun in say hitting a 5k win, if you are that lucky, would probably be great, but in essence, it's just like playing in fun mode. Possibly even a bit more cruel, because you would actually be winning free cash, but your chances of seeing that lovely money are zilch.

 

[ballysdb]

I see everyones point of view here...

I just want to say that I do take these bonuses sometimes. I can't deposit large amounts so I enjoy getting to bet larger and try for a big win.

The difference is that I am well informed, being a member here for 3 years and being an online gambler for 10 years.

For newbies taking this bonus...it might come as quite a shock when they realize how much they have to wager before cashing out.

 

[winbig]

I see everyones point of view here...

I just want to say that I do take these bonuses sometimes. I can't deposit large amounts so I enjoy getting to bet larger and try for a big win.

The difference is that I am well informed, being a member here for 3 years and being an online gambler for 10 years.

For newbies taking this bonus...it might come as quite a shock when they realize how much they have to wager before cashing out.

Yep, that's for sure....even @ $1 spins, you're looking at nearly 10,000 spins before you can cash out. If they didn't know any better and played at low stakes (.20/spin), they can count on nearly 50,000 spins

 

[kmay87]

Yep, that's for sure....even @ $1 spins, you're looking at nearly 10,000 spins before you can cash out. If they didn't know any better and played at low stakes (.20/spin), they can count on nearly 50,000 spins

I wouldn't be complaining if those spins counted for the Slotsmeister

 

[mistye81]

I have had my best luck playing with promotions like this. I love being able to bet big, because I too can not make large deposits. So I welcome all crazy promos to my casino accounts.

 

[Nifty29]

If you think that one is bad, check out this I just received from Vegas Regal:

Get a 400% bonus on your next deposit!
Minimum deposit: $25 Maximum bonus amount: $200.
20x (deposit+bonus) playthrough
Playthrough is the amount that must be wagered (put at risk) before you may cashout. It is a multiple of your deposit or a multiple of your deposit plus the bonus. For example, "20x deposit" on a deposit of $100 means playthrough is $2000. "20x deposit + bonus wagering" on a deposit of $100 with a bonus of $100 means playthrough is $4000.


Unless otherwise stated, 1 credit wagered in a game counts as 1 credit toward playthrough requirements. Play at the following games, and any variants, does not count towards playthrough requirements and winnings may be considered null and void: Slot Progressive. Play at the following games, and any variants, count toward playthrough requirements at a reduced rate: Roulette (1/4) Blackjack (1/10) RedDog (1/4) Baccarat (1/10) PaiGow (1/10) War (1/4) ThreeCard (1/4) LetItRide (1/4) Craps (1/10) DoubleUp (1/10) CaribStud (1/4)
Bonus money is not withdrawable. The bonus will be deducted from your next withdrawal.
If your balance is less than the amount of the bonus you will not be able to withdraw.
A maximum cashout of 3 times the bonus applies.
A maximum cashout applies. For example, if you receive a $10 bonus and the maximum cashout is 10x the bonus your maximum cashout is $100. Any balance remaining after your cashout will be removed from your account.


Any funds over the maximum cashable amount will be removed automatically on cashout.
The following games and any variants may have different table limits while this promotion is active: Roulette, Blackjack, RedDog, Baccarat, PaiGow, War, ThreeCard, LetItRide, Craps, DoubleUp, CaribStud, Slot Progressive
Your table limits may change while this promotion is active.


Valid from 2009-03-11 00:00:00 to 2009-03-12 23:59:59. Promotion may be expired by casino at any time.
The casino's general terms and conditions apply.

I hope I dont get knocked over in the stampede....

 

[chuchu59]

In all fairness, much as I hate Regal Vegas for not responding to any of my emails as if I didnt exist, the promo above is not as bad as the one from SOF. If you deposit $25 you play with $125 as opposed to $150 (SOF) but then the WRs are $2500 instead of $9750. The max cashout is 12x deposit which is reasonable unless you are looking for a progressive. Furthermore, table games are allowed though they count less towards playthrough than slots.

If I had to make a choice I would look to other Rivals. Vegas Sky frequently offers 100% match bonuses which are withdrawable and with 15x (B+D) WRs but the hitch is a 4x Bonus Max cashout whereas Lion Slots offer 100% withdrawable match bonuses with 17X (B+D) WRs. I look for extended play on slots and was lucky to cash out several times I took these bonuses. So if you cashout once every 4 times at Vegas Sky you break even and could do even better at LionSlots if you are hitting. Frankly, that is good enough in my book.

 

[Nifty29]

Yup I take that point ChuChu. On second reading, it isnt AS bad...but its still bad IMO.

I just dont believe in max cashouts where a deposit is involved....with free chips, no problem....but I would rather have a 100% or 150% where I can cashout what I like. Maybe its just me, I think that max cashout is c*ap in these instances.