Rushmore Casino Experiences

[gerilege]

Moneybookers have never accepted U.S. users for transfering their money for Gambling, so that's nothing news, but all another european members will prefer this, because it's the fastest and cheapest way to deposit and withdraw your money and all another RTG Casino accept this deposit method, they even prefer this as their first withdrawal method, because you never pay more than 50.- Cent for transfering the money to another Moneybookers Account.

Definitely. So dear Rushmore Team, if you introduce moneybookers and you will get a lot of sign-ups from Europe. It's up to you whether it fits into your plans.

 

[reda]

well this thread is getting longer so ill keep it short. i have made several dep at rushmore. the first time nothing. and the 2nd time a little better. like club and inet it can have long dry spells and then the next week plays good. i did last a while on my last dep. i like the fact on weekends they give a 150 % bonus for slots and and a 100% bonus on table games ( dont know which ones for sure) anyway my money does last longer. and ther e is a no max cash out limit. but if i hit a jackpot of 30 to 40 thousand dollars i will be for ever getting all of my money. i dont like that to much as withdrawls can only be in 2,000 dollar amounts per withdrawl. other than that i dont know how the withdrawl will be as i havent had one yet. i like the live chat and the fact that i can send my self a copy of the live chat to my email for future refernce . that could come in handy if things get misunderstood. i will probably play there on the weekends becasue of the 150 % bonus they offer.

 

[USA2112]

i like the fact on weekends they give a 150 % bonus for slots and and a 100% bonus on table games.

Incase your interested reda, July 4th, 250% slots bonus LIBERTYBELL1 to LIBERTYBELL5. Same terms apply as 150% slots week bonanza bonus.

 

[zapotek]

i deposited $40 with credit card. using slots400% bonus coupon. have been playing couple of hours on video slots with $5+ bets, won a little over $2000. all my money are still shown on the bonus account and not on the withdrawable. but i guess i have met the wagering requierments?

i see there is few withdrawal methods. only check and wire transfer. what is Wire Transfer and can i register on it? i am from Norway

sveinung

 

[Audioz]

i deposited $40 with credit card. using slots400% bonus coupon. have been playing couple of hours on video slots with $5+ bets

What, you played really some hours with only a $200 balance and $5 bets?

Wow that's really amazing, because i've played with $2,500 and $10 spins and it was away within one hour!

what is Wire Transfer and can i register on it?

Wire Transfer means, that you get the money to your bank account, so you must only tell them your bank details and then you got it on your account.

 

[zapotek]

i contacted live help...seems like i had $888 left to wager.. (total 4000 to wager)so will see how i end up. and wire transfer was not possible to norway,only check. i was lucky on "enchanted garden" think i got almost $1500 in the free spins...

 

[Audioz]

seems like i had $888 left to wager.. (total 4000 to wager)

Then you've never played couple of hours with $5 bets, because normally you make 600 spins in 1 hour, so these are $3,000 for wagering, so it looks like, that you've played 1 hour with a very big luck, with such a small deposit and so a big bet size

 

[zapotek]

audioz,yes 1hour is maybe right + the free spins take some time. finally met the wagering requirements now and withdrew $2000... so lets see how long time it takes. will post again when i get them.

 

[Nicole50]

Why you dont open an account at Neteller and get your money there. I think Neteller is available in Norway. No ? Or Moneybookers account . The wire transfer take long times as I know.

 

[Audioz]

Why you dont open an account at Neteller and get your money there. I think Neteller is available in Norway. No ? Or Moneybookers account .

If you've read the thread, you should know, that they don't accept (as the onliest RTG Casino, which i know!) moneybookers and neteller, so this tipp is not really very sinful

btw. why did you always write in thick letters?

 

[LaurieJim]

played there a couple of times today and used the coupon, still cant figure out if they are a yea or ney for me, prolly stick with the ones i know best......p.s not one feature or half- ass line hit leaning towards the nay side........................laurie

 

[sweetlou68]

I have played at Rushmore twice....once just for $50 deposit, but the other time I deposit around $500......Overall play on slots wasn't bad, but eventually donated it all to them.. I gues my biggest issue was I never recieved any sort of follow-up promos (free chips, loyalty bonues, etc)...I would of thought at least total of $500 would of warrant something along those lines....I always felt this sort of stuff is critical to so.....I simply thank you we value and appreciate your business would of been suffice....

 

[aminair]

I'vetried it now, because normally you must enter the code always before and it works fine, because after redeeming your coupon you see the known sentence "on your next deposit you will get a 100% bonus, minimum deposit is $30 and maximum $400"

I did as the website instructed and it worked fine. Also gobbled up deposit + bonus in record time. Ouch.

I think my memories of 'once upon a time' being able to play quite some time on a deposit, and even being able to actually win, are all some sort of delusion.

Note that (as someone has mentioned already) Rushmore has some fat RJs. I saw several in the $9 - $20k range.

i think I'd be quitting my weekly deposits and going for the lottery on those babies. At one penny one line!

I should have taken a screen capture shot of it.

I won on Caesar's Empire (my favorite slot). I actually hit the highest-paying combo (4 Cleopatras + a coin) TWICE in a span of 10 minutes! The first one I got $1500, and the second one I won an additional $1500. Of course, I ended up blowing a thousand of those dollars, but I cashed out the remaining two grand before I could screw it up.

Well there ya go!

You know gd good and well someone is going to bring down those random jackpots, and it could happen here. As soon as they address WinBig and sdaddy's concerns, i will deposit. ya'll can patronize rogue terms, even if they are accredited, I won't. My loss I guess.
But that random jackpot calls me. NOPE, not a penny from me, dig it? I knew that you could.

good luck fools, you had a chance to make a casino play the way you want to play... all is not lost yet.

I found the same terms on Club World's website:

6. Bets placed on Baccarat, Craps, Roulette games and Sic Bo do not count towards the wagering requirements of any bonus given unless otherwise stated. Bonus terms are clearly stated in the website or on emails. If you are unsure of bonus terms ask Support before playing.

7. The Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player's original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered on the above games, before the wagering on allowed games is completed fully.

They just say it a little better.


This also came from Club World too. Does this mean that if you take a bonus and it is only good from 5-1 to 5-2 for example and you don't complete the wagering requirement by 5-2 then they will remove your bonus and winnings?

9. If a bonus has a timeframe and the conditions are not met within this timeframe, the bonus and any winnings from the bonus will be removed from a player's account.

I still say that if you look at all the casinos' T&C's, they are more gray than black and white and the gray leans toward the casino side.

And Lojo, it's not nice to call someone a fool. My mama said so.

But ya know me abit, and i will, no offense to yo momma!

I checked my Rushmore account, and it looks like my $2000 withdraw request has been approved. Now the waiting begins. It should appear in my bank account (via wire transfer) in the next 3-4 days or so.

Hello everyone.

My name is Gabriel and I work for Rushmore Casino.

For of all, I'd like to mention how happy we are here to be an accredited casino at casinomeister. We'll do our best to exceed your expectations.

I have looked over the 5 pages of discussion over the weekend, and everything seems good. But if there is a complaint I missed, please do contact me by PM (or by email, see below).

I hope you all enjoy playing at the casino

Best regards,
Gabriel
gabriel[at]rushmoregaming.com

Welcome to the Forum, Gabriel...Congrats on the accreditation and welcome aboard!

Are you sure you read this thread thoroughly? There's a number of players that aren't too happy (myself included) with the way Rushmore's T&C's are worded....there's a number of items that are very ambiguous and anti-player friendly...

Rushmore,

Welcome aboard. We're looking forward to hearing how you plan to address the T&C issues.

Hi guys,

Okay, after reviewing your issues with the bonus conditions, and considering these issues, we have decided to remove the following item from the conditions:

* All winnings on any account/s opened will be null and void and all cash-ins will be cancelled where play has been deemed abusive.

The other issue, regarding restricted games, is pretty straight-forward: If you play restricted games with your bonus cash, your bonus becomes void and so do the winnings received. Your deposit remains and will NOT be deducted from your account.

From what I understand this is a pretty normal condition for bonuses.

I hope I understood your concerns correctly, and please do let me know if I haven't addressed these issues to your satisfaction.

I'd also like to thank casinomeister for giving us the opportunity to appear on this forum and help us provide even better service to our customers.

Regards,
Gabriel

That's good to hear. It's not often that a casino changes its bonus abuse policy, and you are to be commended for doing so.

Gabriel,

As long as we have you here, there is one other major issue I have with your T&Cs, which is your weekly payout limit:

"A maximum of $2000 (Two Thousand US Dollars) will be sent per week, all balances will be sent in increments of $2000 the following week(s)."

Would you not waive this rule if the player wins a large progressive jackpot? As you know, in such cases the winnings come from a pool of funds, which would give you the ability to pay it out right away. If, on the other hand, you stick to the $2K/week limit, then some large wins could take months or even years to pay out, and I don't think many people here would consider that fair.

So would you consider adding language which states that winnings from progressive jackpots will not be subject to any weekly payout limits?

Also, to follow up on the last poster's question:

I know that there are currently 2 options for payouts (bank transfer and mailed check). Each of these methods have a 2,000 maximum payout limit per transaction. If I had $4000 in winnings, and requested a payout of $2000 via each method, would I have to wait 2 weeks to receive all my money?

BTw. what's this thing with these extremly high Random Jackpots, because i can't find any RJ which is much under $ 10,000 and they also grow up very fast in the opposite to another casinos, which are longer in this business and have surely more players and i can't believe that there are so much players on it, because it's a new casino and the deposit options are also very limited (no moneybookers, or neteller)

This is a VERY important question. According to the accepted RANDOM model, and a fixed addition to the RJ from each spin, this situation is IMPOSSIBLE for a "new" casino, and one with limited deposit options as well.

There are two obvious possibilities, and they are not good.

1) The odds of winning the RJ are "tweaked" to be far lower than other RTG casinos, so they hit far less often, and thus naturally hit at far higher levels.

2) More than the set level per spin goes towards the RJ, so while the ODDS of hitting per spin are unchanged, the growth is faster, and thus the RJs are higher.

According to other RTG reps, we are assured this kind of "tweaking" is "impossible", and the fact that Rushmore's RJs are so high simply does not fit expectations.


There is a less obvious possibility, not necessarily bad, and that is that Rushmore boosted the RJ pots from their own funds to make the casino look more attractive at launch, and may be continuing to do so. Despite the limited deposit options, they may well have captured a significant slice of the US and Canadian market already, who would not care about the lack of Neteller since they cannot use it.

If Rushmore want to capture players from Europe, they will have to add more Europe focused deposit and withdrawal options, as the current ones are directed at the US market, and designed to get round UIGEA.

Citadel is the only one viable for European players, but has been seen as an option only available to Canadians, however they have launched here in Europe too, but as an arms length entity.

The lack of deposit options is the biggest factor that has made me NOT join Rushmore, despite it now having full accreditation here. There is a serious shortage of reliable RTG casinos to play at, and this addition is more than welcome.

The $2000 weekly max is too low, but is common with RTG, and maybe Rushmore can raise it as they mature and increase cashflow with more players. Club World have a $3000 weekly limit, and that is too low also - it took me 3 weeks to get paid from a modest session involving a $500 deposit and no RJs (OK, perhaps not THAT modest a session ).

Again though, I don't see why cashflow should be an issue regarding prompt payment of winnings from the progressive jackpots (not the random jackpots, which are funded by each casino on its own). Unless RTG somehow operates differently than other platforms, these winnings will not come from the casino itself, but from the jackpot pool of all the participating casinos. The end result is that Rushmore will needlessly lose potential players of these large jackpots to other RTG casinos like Inetbet or VIP.com, which do not have such weekly payout limits.

My experience with Rushmore casino was indeed very very short.

After clicking "OK" on the create account page I got this:

Danes are not welcome at many casinos anymore I think.. I was also banned at a new WagerWork casino at account creation, and here they told me it was because I was from Denmark.

Mine instead was very much unpleaseant today....due to a CS by the name Roberta....name that run in my Italian family...and I told her....still...she was very cold, crude , unpolite and overall sarcastic.
I dont know where she is from.....Im Italian tho....( nobody is perfect ) sorry my friends but sometimes , some people really deserve a ......

well its ok

That is a very badly worded error message, it suggests the ban is PERSONAL TO YOU, rather than being to do with restricted countries.

What is the big problem with the Danes anyway? There are casinos that do not let Danes take the sign-up bonuses, but banning players altogether has nothing to do with bonuses, as such players could simply be required to show an "intention to risk their own funds" before being given loyalty promotions on a case by case basis.

There is nothing special about Danes, as what they are doing "wrong" could be done by anyone, and in any country, and surely this would not lead to the entire world being banned at Rushmore!

Perhaps my earlier views were correct, in that Rushmore is targetting the US and Canada and competing with the "unlicenced rogues" on offer there, and they are not really interested at this stage in gaining players from Europe, but will allow then from countries they do not see as being a potential problem.

I am worried that the UK will end up being the next country banned, because our lack of a national ID card system, and lax controls on government held data, makes us look like a hotbed of ID theft & ID fraud.

The casino did reply and confirmed I was guilty of being Dane:

Thank you for contacting Rushmore Casino.

The reason why your not been able to create an account with us is because our Casino do not offer any services to Denmark for several reasons but the main reason is because we can not send money to Denmark to pay players, we apologized for the inconvenience and we thank you for considering us an option to play.

Best regards,
Cindy.

Rushmore Casino Cs Manager.



But I am confused about the reason for not allowing Danes. I have never
heard of a problem sending money to Denmark. It is perfectly legal in Denmark for gamble online.

They can send checks with snail mail or just use my Neteller account of course.

Ok, also a very mysterious thing happens on Rushmore!

If the Random Jackpot were hit, it begans not from $ 1,000, but $ 5,000 and that's really not normal for a RTG Casino, so i hope, that we get very soon an explanation for their RJ things!?

It is not the standard but quite possible. RTG can 'bundle' several slots to the same RJ for example. They do this to make the jackpots higher and grow faster.
By doing so and make the jackpot harder to hit, they can set it at a 5000$ starting value. This is a good idea, since I often avoid slots with a 1000$ jackpot. (Not that I ever hit one at a RTG though!)

Ok, that's eventually a good reason, but now there's only this thing, how their RJs can grow up to 20-30,000 Dollars within only some days?

Well Im playing right now....it went from 28K to 34K in a week.
Anyway I did cashout today for $500....via wire
Let's see how long it will take.
I will keep you posted.

That is a damn good question. The only reason I can think of is that it is a new casino and they have a massive surge of new players that are playing the 400% slot only signup bonus.

Oh thanks for this info, because i always thought that some people had written 400%, but wanted to write $ 400 bonus, because the match bonus is 100% up to $ 400, but now i see, that there's really a $ 2,000 bonus and this is certainly another thing and maybe this is really the reason, that their RJ grows up so fast.

Btw. their weekend bonus is also not bad (150% up to $750)

Outdated URL (Invalid)

Called their customer support and they speak in some accent that I couldn't understand a word of. (I lived in America long enough that I can understand most accents) They had to say "Yes" four times before I could tell what they meant.

And Zoozie, I hate when sites do that - they take all your information, waste your time, harvest your email address and then say "sorry, you can't play."

A casino that actually cares about its audience should have the site read your IP and tell you that the site isn't available in your jurisdiction. It takes exactly 3 minutes of html work.

I got another reply from CS.

The casino does not have neteller bank option...
And they did not answer why visa card would not work.

How did you deposit to this casino?



Thanks for contacting us.

Unfortunately, we do not work with Neteller, and have no other means of sending funds to Denmark at the moment, so watch this space and hopefully sometime in the future, we will be able to cater for you!

All the best,

Louise Moses
Rushmore Casino Support Team.

Why should Visa Card not work?

I hope that's not true, because that's the only option for me, to make any deposit on this casino!

Rushmore has very limited deposit options, however, I don't believe this argument holds water, as Citadel is an Ewallet they support, and Europeans can use it now through a global version of it. Surely they can PAY back to Citadel, or are their payment options so severely limited that they really cannot pay players in many countries.
They seem to have no trouble paying to the US, and the transaction itself is actually ILLEGAL (which explains the list of processors they work with - designed to get around UIGEA), even if the gambling isn't.

Do they list countries they cannot accept, or do players have to try to register, and get that rather vague error message?

It may change for Danes soon, as they seem willing to open up their state monopoly market because of EU pressure.

As for the high RJ's. Starting them at $5000 instead of $1000 would make them, on average, $4000 higher than the norm. Various RTG casinos bundle several RJ's together, and it would be easy to see if this explains how the Rushmore ones are both so high, and grow so rapidly. If a large number of players are playing the $888 starting bonus, this will also add to the RJs.
The problem comes when they are won though, as with a $2000 weekly limit, it seems a perverse decision to have a deliberate policy of boosting the RJs to such a high level that winners of them face a wait of months to get paid fully.

They surely have more customer than other RTG.
Id rather play an higher R jackpot with same small bet, on the same slots.
Gabriel seems to be a nice guy, he will probably try to make all the efforts to please us
I did use Visa withouth any problem.

Not only this, because if you play only Slots or Keno, you can use the 400% bonus up to $ 2,000 on your first deposit and WR 20x and this is really very fair, i think!

I've been playing at Rushmore for a while and have deposited a bunch lately. I have fairly good runs but haven't cashed out as of yet. I am glad they have been accredited here because some things make me a bit nervous. The random jp amounts for one and the fact that I deposit with a prepaid Visa that I can't use at other RTG's such as Inet and can't get an explanation from anyone why that is the case. I have NEVER had a response from an email and that justs ticks me off! It is nice to see a rep on board here so I may mail him but with as much money as I've spent this month a little TLC would be nice!

Why don't you use their live chat?

Rushmore dont flush withdrawals on weekends....and CS cant do it either on weekdays
Ive already gambled back 200 off my previous withdraw.....coincidence?????

Ok, I'm going to try to address everyone here, one at a time. Wish me luck





I'll see about this. From what I understand there is no real policy here regarding the progressives. I'll check if we can increase the weekly withdrawal limit in the event a progressive jackpot is won.



If that's the case, the wire will go out after the faxback form is received, and then 7 days later, a check will be sent.

This is only because our bonuses are so high
The highest being 400% up to $2000 as someone mentioned before.

Ok, first of all, I'd like to be clear on this. We certainly do accept Visa as a payment option.
We do not accept Neteller, and that is because we are primarily dealing with players from the United States, where Neteller is not an option. We do apologize for this, and hopefully we will offer this in the future

Regarding the issue with Denmark, I'm not sure why your country is blocked sir, and I will look into this matter.

Thanks, I am pretty nice, and will do what I can to please you all

And yes, we do accept Visa.

I have looked into this, and seen all of your emails have been received and replied to.
Most likely AOL is blocking our emails because of its gambling nature.

If you provide our support with a different address, I'm sure it will get through. If not, maybe you can set your filter settings on AOL to accept our emails.



Totally Next time, use the chat. It's available 24/7 and you will always get an immediate reply.

thanks rushmore for all the resposnse. i think i will give you a try. maybe ill have beginners luck. live chat is very nice to have in case i have a question.

Be prepared, in case of cashout, to wait 48/72 hours just to be processed tho.
Even more if it happen to be during weekend.
No flush option.
I didnt know it and I dont really like the Idea of having my withdrawal sitting there for what I think its a little too long.

I too am going to give them a try. Does Rushmore have the new games?

Kakata,

I think the last time (looong time ago) when I cashed out at Riverbelle my withdrawal sat for 48 hrs before they processed it. If you are not a VIP at the Rivals, you will wait that long.

For me, it's too long because I can't keep my greedy little paws off the reversal button. Maybe they will address the flush issue. Sure would be nice for those of us who have no willpower.

Just log in and then you can see it

No, not at the moment

I have played at Rushmore twice....once just for $50 deposit, but the other time I deposit around $500......Overall play on slots wasn't bad, but eventually donated it all to them.. I gues my biggest issue was I never recieved any sort of follow-up promos (free chips, loyalty bonues, etc)...I would of thought at least total of $500 would of warrant something along those lines....I always felt this sort of stuff is critical to so.....I simply thank you we value and appreciate your business would of been suffice....

There was an old lady of 92 - parlez vous.

 

[Audioz]

Can you tell us please, why you've quoted now all these sentences?

I don't understand the sin of it, sorry

 

[chuchu59]

Parlez-vous? Old lady of 92? Are you saying you are old lady aged 92 who only understands French. I am really scratching my head.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Ok, i play now with the 400% slots bonus and have $2.500 in my account, but the only problem is, that you can't see, how much you have to playthrough, like in all another RTg Casinos, because the money is only in the Bonus Account, so i never know, how much i've wagered

This is VERY odd, and is the kind of thing that ROGUE casinos tend to get up to. RTG has a bug that carries WR through a zero balance, and if you do not see the playthrough counter you cannot know this bug has affected you. It is likely this bug affected players in May & June, and the explanation by Jade may be wrong, and the bug may have accumulated playthrough and live help simply didn't see it.
I fail to see why the playthrough counter is missing, as with other (non rogue) RTG casinos it has become a standard feature. Constantly asking live chat is a very poor alternative, it keeps them busy and makes delays longer when players are asking about something else.

Since the reason for rejecting Moneybookers was down to them not accepting customers from the USA, I have to conclude that Rushmore are simply not interested at all in gaining non-USA based players at the present time. In business terms, this is unwise, since there might come a time when the US government actually find a way to enforce UIGEA, and this could cripple Rushmore overnight, leaving them no time to alter their business strategy as it will take time to refocus on Europe to replace lost US players.
Many casino operators discovered this to their cost when they thought "it'll never happen" when UIGEA was being debated, and were taken completely by surprise when it was sneaked through on the tails of the safe ports act, followed by many eWallets, card companies, and software providers immediately pullling out of the US even before G W signed the bill into law. There were some huge falls in stock prices for many newly floated casino and poker companies, whose earnings forecasts depended upon a "business as usual" result in their US market.

 

[USA2112]

Since the reason for rejecting Moneybookers was down to them not accepting customers from the USA, I have to conclude that Rushmore are simply not interested at all in gaining non-USA based players at the present time.

Tried master card/debt last night and was rejected also. Contacted Casino says no USA credit/debt cards for now.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Tried master card/debt last night and was rejected also. Contacted Casino says no USA credit/debt cards for now.

That doesn't look good for them. They have few deposit options, and the loss of all cards, and the fact that US players cannot use eWallets, could seriously cut their turnover. Even though they have bank wire, I expect this too would be a hard option for US players to use for deposits, as the banks may well consider these as potential gambling or money laundering transactions, and make the effort too great for players to bother.

With no real drive into non-US markets, they will be unable to quickly replace these lost US card deposits, and if "for now" becomes "for good", they could find themselves in a spot of bother.

 

[The Dude]

Admin note

There was an old lady of 92 - parlez vous.

Please don't clutter the forum with puzzling posts. There was either no need to quote all those posts, or the reasoning is beyond me and other members. Thank you.

 

[Jade@rushmore]

Tried master card/debt last night and was rejected also. Contacted Casino says no USA credit/debt cards for now.

All Visa's including prepaid are accepted, Master card is not currently accepted. You would never have heard such a message and If you did please inform me of the name of the rep so I can make sure they are perfectly clear from now on.

 

[Jade@rushmore]

Moneybookers have never accepted U.S. users for transfering their money for Gambling, so that's nothing news, but all another european members will prefer this, because it's the fastest and cheapest way to deposit and withdraw your money and all another RTG Casino accept this deposit method, they even prefer this as their first withdrawal method, because you never pay more than 50.- Cent for transfering the money to another Moneybookers Account.

Expanding into the European market is something that we are interested in also and the deposits manager is keen on adopting this deposit option. Hopefully I will be able to report soon that it is up and running. Thanks for all your info.

 

[lauram]

Canadian here and in same boat with a lot of the casinos its the deposit issues.
Even though we can apply to few extra options then usa it leaves us with no way of funding them only if we win at a accredited casino and the deposit back to one of our options.
And not sure why you would post all those quotes we have read them already and you never made a comment about them so i dont see the need to take up that kinda space.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Expanding into the European market is something that we are interested in also and the deposits manager is keen on adopting this deposit option. Hopefully I will be able to report soon that it is up and running. Thanks for all your info.

Since RTG does not support multiple currency accounts within the same casino skin (unless you run separate versions side by side), the biggest worry is that withdrawals will be in US Dollars. Coupled with check being the only withdrawal option for non-US players, this means we will be hit by steep bank charges when depositing these dollar checks into Euro or UK Pound bank accounts. There is also likely to be some delay in the checks reaching European players.
The eWallets commonly used outside the US will be the best option, but players will want to WITHDRAW back to these should they win, and preferrably to eWallets accepted by most other brands of casino/poker available to European players.

Since it is only Mastercard, and not VISA, that is not working for US players, there is not such a problem. Mastercard has never been a viable deposit option (they don't even work for me in the UK). The real worry would come if VISA placed a block on all forms of debit/credit/prepaid cards used to currently deposit to the casino. They may do this, and since Mastercard are able to do this, it is a matter of policy, not lack of technology, that currently allows VISA cards to work.

 

[Jade@rushmore]

This is VERY odd, and is the kind of thing that ROGUE casinos tend to get up to. RTG has a bug that carries WR through a zero balance, and if you do not see the playthrough counter you cannot know this bug has affected you. It is likely this bug affected players in May & June, and the explanation by Jade may be wrong, and the bug may have accumulated playthrough and live help simply didn't see it.
I fail to see why the playthrough counter is missing, as with other (non rogue) RTG casinos it has become a standard feature. Constantly asking live chat is a very poor alternative, it keeps them busy and makes delays longer when players are asking about something else.

Since the reason for rejecting Moneybookers was down to them not accepting customers from the USA, I have to conclude that Rushmore are simply not interested at all in gaining non-USA based players at the present time. In business terms, this is unwise, since there might come a time when the US government actually find a way to enforce UIGEA, and this could cripple Rushmore overnight, leaving them no time to alter their business strategy as it will take time to refocus on Europe to replace lost US players.
Many casino operators discovered this to their cost when they thought "it'll never happen" when UIGEA was being debated, and were taken completely by surprise when it was sneaked through on the tails of the safe ports act, followed by many eWallets, card companies, and software providers immediately pullling out of the US even before G W signed the bill into law. There were some huge falls in stock prices for many newly floated casino and poker companies, whose earnings forecasts depended upon a "business as usual" result in their US market.

Actually I don't remember giving any explanation to the unavailable playthrough counter that could be interpreted as wrong??? We simply do not have this feature but are more than happy to let our customers know over the live chat or phone, which I have not heard of any serious complaints about. You can contact CS every two minutes if you like and they will copy and paste the exact amounts from the casino back end. The whole process taking less than 30 seconds. So I don't think there is any issue with tying up the CS. If this is such an outstanding problem for any of our players please private massage me and I will voice your concerns. A BUG? I would really like to know where that explanation came from.

We do not like to add options that exclude availability to the US because we do not want in anyway to alienate the US market. There is nothing more disheartening than seeing a whole list of options you can not use. We have always welcomed US users and will continue to do so, much to the delight of the US players who frequent us. As I have recently posted we will however be adding moneybookers to our list even though this does not allow access to US users because, despite popular belief, we do want to expand our business in other areas also. The US market is our primary concern for finding new deposit methods as there is so few options available to them. We want to allow US users full access to our services. Although you might not agree with our business plans I can assure you that there are lots of US citizens that commend our efforts to allow them to keep doing what they love.

Regards
Jade Pagano

 

[Jade@rushmore]

moneybookers

I don't want to be giving conflicting messages. Just so everyone is aware the Deposits manager is going to attempt to set the moneybookers option up, if for some reason it seems inviable and the decision is made not to add this as a deposit option I will let you all know also. Jade

 

[Audioz]

everyone is aware the Deposits manager is going to attempt to set the moneybookers option up

This is really the best decision you can make

 

[vinylweatherman]

Actually I don't remember giving any explanation to the unavailable playthrough counter that could be interpreted as wrong??? We simply do not have this feature but are more than happy to let our customers know over the live chat or phone, which I have not heard of any serious complaints about. You can contact CS every two minutes if you like and they will copy and paste the exact amounts from the casino back end. The whole process taking less than 30 seconds. So I don't think there is any issue with tying up the CS. If this is such an outstanding problem for any of our players please private massage me and I will voice your concerns. A BUG? I would really like to know where that explanation came from.

We do not like to add options that exclude availability to the US because we do not want in anyway to alienate the US market. There is nothing more disheartening than seeing a whole list of options you can not use. We have always welcomed US users and will continue to do so, much to the delight of the US players who frequent us. As I have recently posted we will however be adding moneybookers to our list even though this does not allow access to US users because, despite popular belief, we do want to expand our business in other areas also. The US market is our primary concern for finding new deposit methods as there is so few options available to them. We want to allow US users full access to our services. Although you might not agree with our business plans I can assure you that there are lots of US citizens that commend our efforts to allow them to keep doing what they love.

Regards
Jade Pagano

Why not?

There should be no reason NOT to have this feature, it makes players feel empowered, rather than having to contiually contact CS all the time.
There have been many complaints from players who have contacted CS for wagering updates, only to have this used against them when they withdraw. Players are sometimes told that their requests for an update on wagering "proves" they are "bonus abusers". Players simply do not like contacting CS for updates, and having it on record that they have checked the progress of their wagering. Looking in the cashier makes the frequency and circumstances of checking a private matter for them.

The bug in RTG was that the player would zero out on a coupon, yet the counter would remain to carry over the WR to the next deposit. Proof this was a true bug came when this carry over prevented the use of further coupons, despite the balance being zero. If it were simply an issue with temporary internet files on the player's PC, the server would not react by denying the later coupons.

Other RTG bugs can result in a balance being shown as "withdrawable", even though a WR still exists, and without a counter, all the player sees is their amount as "bonus", or "withdrawable", and as far as they are concerned "withdrawable" means just that, no remaining WR.

I would be interested to know why the counter has been removed in the Rushmore client, as it comes as default with the RTG package. All the other RTG casinos that get Casinomeister accreditation leave this counter up and running, and so clearly have no problem with it.
Some players will join, see the counter missing, and not bother to become regular players, whereas they would if they saw that the casino was "open" in displaying the counter.

If I see this counter missing in an RTG casino I have tried for the first time, it gets uninstalled!!

 

[Audioz]

I would be interested to know why the counter has been removed in the Rushmore client, as it comes as default with the RTG package. All the other RTG casinos that get Casinomeister accreditation leave this counter up and running, and so clearly have no problem with it.

That's really a very good question, because i knew this only from King Solomon's that they have no "Playthrough Counter", but they've also denied my last cashout about $500 without any reason and answer, so they're for me rogued!

So it's not really a good way, to delete this very useful option from the Cashier selection.

 

[Nicole50]

There is other way to know about your wagering. Check the loyalty points and If any 10 US wagered is one point then you have to calculate to know where your are regarding the wagering. For me I do it in playtech casino.By the loyalty points you get you can know how much you wagered.That'simple.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Since the reason for rejecting Moneybookers was down to them not accepting customers from the USA, I have to conclude that Rushmore are simply not interested at all in gaining non-USA based players at the present time. In business terms, this is unwise, since there might come a time when the US government actually find a way to enforce UIGEA, and this could cripple Rushmore overnight, leaving them no time to alter their business strategy as it will take time to refocus on Europe to replace lost US players.
Many casino operators discovered this to their cost when they thought "it'll never happen" when UIGEA was being debated, and were taken completely by surprise when it was sneaked through on the tails of the safe ports act, followed by many eWallets, card companies, and software providers immediately pullling out of the US even before G W signed the bill into law. There were some huge falls in stock prices for many newly floated casino and poker companies, whose earnings forecasts depended upon a "business as usual" result in their US market.

Well said,.....and what has changed among those with vested interests including but not limited to onlines, affililiates, webmasters, (and some US players) that point fingers at UIGEA (which ultimately will not be the means of enforcement, VWM) and the US government. Maybe one day the online industry will realize it is it's own worst enemy as it contnues to deny and manipulate facts. Or is it only the US politicians that to suit their own agendas that deny and/or manipulate facts???.....Wanna hint online industry for starters, as Sdaddy alludes to, learn and honor "THE CONTRACTUAL ASPECTS OF A GAMING CONTRACT"!

 

[Jade@rushmore]

There is other way to know about your wagering. Check the loyalty points and If any 10 US wagered is one point then you have to calculate to know where your are regarding the wagering. For me I do it in playtech casino.By the loyalty points you get you can know how much you wagered.That'simple.

We have a very similar system where by one point is awarded for every $10 wagered. So there would be a way for our members to double check if they needed to.

 

[vinylweatherman]

We have a very similar system where by one point is awarded for every $10 wagered. So there would be a way for our members to double check if they needed to.

This is not as reliable, as it seems (above) that King Solomon's denied a cash-in, and without the evidence of the playthrough counter the player had no means to make a case.

Why is it such a big problem for Rushmore to include this counter in the client? We have had answers such as "ask CS, they don't mind", and "use comps to estimate", but this simply dodges the question, why not get rid of the guesswork and potential for ambiguity and error (yes - it happens, CS SAY a player has met WR, but they can be wrong - many instances of this have been posted in complaints, although not for Rushmore).

Without a credible explanation as to why Rushmore find this counter such a "problem", we must assume there is some motive that outweighs giving players the clearest indication of their WR.
The counter has also been useful in the past to challenge an error. I took a coupon at iNetBet with an advertised WR of 20x, however when the counter popped up it had miscalculated it as 30x. I was able to alert CS to this error and get it corrected. Without the counter, this kind of thing would never be spotted by the player, but the casino would gain, and there would be a temptation to make coupon WR's unduly complicated.

I also used the comp point count method at another RTG casino, wagered beyond WR according to points earned, only to be shafted because I had "not met the terms". This was Crystal Palace, (and a free chip too, so I learned before they got a sniff of my own money). Without the counter, and their refusal to state which term was broken, I could not determine what stunt they had pulled. If the counter was in place, I would have known for certain that it was not WR, and I had fully met all the other terms. They could have deliberately misrepresented the rate of earning of comps, so that my calculations were out.

Given the reputation of RTG software, operators should be as open as they possibly can, even if they have a good reputation. It is a case of being SEEN to be good, not just having it on someone's word that they are.


Perhaps another RTG operator could comment on the ease (or not) of switching this counter on and off. It doesn't seem to be something that would challenge anyone who was competent to set up & run the back end of an online casino.

 

[Nicole50]

According to your post :

" I also used the comp point count method at another RTG casino, wagered beyond WR according to points earned, only to be shafted because I had "not met the terms". This was Crystal Palace, (and a free chip too, so I learned before they got a sniff of my own money). Without the counter, and their refusal to state which term was broken, I could not determine what stunt they had pulled. If the counter was in place, I would have known for certain that it was not WR, and I had fully met all the other terms. They could have deliberately misrepresented the rate of earning of comps, so that my calculations were out."

You are talking about the rogue Crystal Palace casino. This group of casino will never pay you even you meet the wagering requirement and even they have maximum bet of 1 USD per spin, there is no 20 cents or 40 cents.


The playtech casino have no counter also but Iam managing myself the wagering. Try to manage yourself but not in this kind of casinos as Crystal Palace .You can not find them in the list of accredited casinos in this forum. So why do you play there ?

 

[kakata]

...as for Rushmore, it doesnt work properly either.
When I begun my yesterday session I had only 1 point.
I deposited 56 and received 150% bonus =84 total wager suppose to be 20x( 56+84 ) which is 2800, correct?
I always use the "points counts metod"wherever there is no available "meter".
When I reached 280 points or $2.80, I knew I had met my WR.....wrong????
I called and was told that I still needed to wager $271.
Weird isnt it? I didnt have any intention to withdraw anyway.
Still after the phonecall I could hardly meet the wagering with a balance of 120 +.
BTW why does your Keno pays a lot less than standard RTG? ie: 5 out of 10 1x bet ( instead of 2x) ---- 6 out of 10 22x (instead of 25x)
8 out of 10 1000x (instead of 1200x)
Most of all noticeable 9 out of 10 pays 5000x when its 10.000x....I know cause I won it twice at 2 different RTG casinos

 

[vinylweatherman]

According to your post :

" I also used the comp point count method at another RTG casino, wagered beyond WR according to points earned, only to be shafted because I had "not met the terms". This was Crystal Palace, (and a free chip too, so I learned before they got a sniff of my own money). Without the counter, and their refusal to state which term was broken, I could not determine what stunt they had pulled. If the counter was in place, I would have known for certain that it was not WR, and I had fully met all the other terms. They could have deliberately misrepresented the rate of earning of comps, so that my calculations were out."

You are talking about the rogue Crystal Palace casino. This group of casino will never pay you even you meet the wagering requirement and even they have maximum bet of 1 USD per spin, there is no 20 cents or 40 cents.


The playtech casino have no counter also but Iam managing myself the wagering. Try to manage yourself but not in this kind of casinos as Crystal Palace .You can not find them in the list of accredited casinos in this forum. So why do you play there ?

I don't.
I got as far as registering, and then clicked through on their "safebet" seal to check their "certificate". All I found was a banner farm with a forum buried at the bottom of the page. It had a "review" - but it was far from glowing; someone forgot to "moderate" the safebet forum

I played the free chip since it was a no-risk way to check their credentials, and had they paid I would have continued to play, so they lost out.
I am now, after more than 2 years, getting promotional offers from Crystal Palace. New owners, but they have not demonstrated any willingness to shed their old ways.

Playtech casinos have no counter - I do not generally play at Playtech.
With MG, I much prefer to play where the bonus system is used. Although there is no counter as such, the amount shown as bonus gives a pretty good idea of how much progress has been made.
With Rushmore, there is no indication at all until the balance becomes "withdrawable". I do not trust the comp point system, as it can be prone to inconsistencies, such as different games having different rates of award. Worse still, RTG has no "playcheck", so unlike MG, it is not even possible to check and count the actual wagers.

We would be 100% at the mercy of Rushmore CS to get it right, and if they get it wrong, would management fess up or let the player suffer.
A previous post was about an innacurate reply from Rushmore CS, and Jade stated in effect that CS would not give such a reply, and asked for the name of the rep. This does not instill confidence, as often there is no actual "proof" of a reply, unless of course the player thinks they are bound to get screwed over and keeps records of everything. This would not be possible over the phone, nor if live chat didn't send the chat log to the player properly.

I feel that Rushmore are putting up considerable resistance to the idea of having this counter; why?

 

[vinylweatherman]

...as for Rushmore, it doesnt work properly either.
When I begun my yesterday session I had only 1 point.
I deposited 56 and received 150% bonus =84 total wager suppose to be 20x( 56+84 ) which is 2800, correct?
I always use the "points counts metod"wherever there is no available "meter".
When I reached 280 points or $2.80, I knew I had met my WR.....wrong????
I called and was told that I still needed to wager $271.
Weird isnt it? I didnt have any intention to withdraw anyway.
Still after the phonecall I could hardly meet the wagering with a balance of 120 +.
BTW why does your Keno pays a lot less than standard RTG? ie: 5 out of 10 1x bet ( instead of 2x) ---- 6 out of 10 22x (instead of 25x)
8 out of 10 1000x (instead of 1200x)
Most of all noticeable 9 out of 10 pays 5000x when its 10.000x....I know cause I won it twice at 2 different RTG casinos

Quite, this shouldn't happen. Someone has screwed up. Jade said it was 1 point for $10 wagered, so if you have 280 points you have to have wagered at least $2800. The WR at 20x on 56 for 84 bonus is indeed $2800, yet CS said you were short by $271. This is one hell of a margin of error in the comp point system, and seems to imply you have been awarded an extra 27 points along the way - most odd. Since you phoned, it is no good Jade asking for the record of this conversation, although you might remember the name of the rep.
This might mean that the back end systems do not work properly, a delay between wagering and it being logged. With the counter, I have seen it work instantly.


As for the Keno payouts, it seems to indicate that Rushmore have set their casino to the lower payout model, rather than the higher one. I wonder what their slots are set to?
There is still the question of the previously very high Random Jackpots. Jade said this was because players were being given alot of bonuses for playing these slots. OK - this would explain a rapid rise in their value, but it most certainly does NOT explain why they get so high. With more turnover, they should hit more often, this is basic maths of random events. There is a fixed chance per spin of the RJ being awarded, so if their are more spins per week, say, the RJ should hit more times per week on average. What it should NOT do is hit just the same number of times, but at much higher values - which seems to be how things are working out so far at Rushmore. I am wondering if RTG has another "switch" that we don't know about, whereby they can set a parameter that controls the chance of the RJ hitting per $ played, such that they either have them hitting often, or holding out for less frequent but bigger payouts.

 

[USA2112]

There is still the question of the previously very high Random Jackpots. Jade said this was because players were being given alot of bonuses for playing these slots. OK - this would explain a rapid rise in their value, but it most certainly does NOT explain why they get so high. With more turnover, they should hit more often, this is basic maths of random events. There is a fixed chance per spin of the RJ being awarded, so if their are more spins per week, say, the RJ should hit more times per week on average. What it should NOT do is hit just the same number of times, but at much higher values - which seems to be how things are working out so far at Rushmore. I am wondering if RTG has another "switch" that we don't know about, whereby they can set a parameter that controls the chance of the RJ hitting per $ played, such that they either have them hitting often, or holding out for less frequent but bigger payouts.

For the random event to happen being it is a random jackpot the event could happen at 1000,000 spins one time compared to 100,000 spins or even 10 spins the next time, and so on.

Random jackpots aren't determaned by the amount of money played by the players, or if 500 people play one week or 10,000 people play the next week the size of the bets per player per line or how many lines played per spin and should not effect when the random jackpot will hit, if all the above player actions did effect the outcome, then the jackpots would not be random.

Also if so, how could it be explained that any single person could possibly ever hit a random jackpot two times over a short time which has happen the same as some players have hit back to back jackpots on a slot machine in the nearest landbase casino. Simple, they are Random jackpots.

The amount of money shown on random jackpots or progressive pots are determined by the amount of money put in the machine by the players, this is a fact, but the outcome of when the random jackpots will hit is not, so for some random jackpots to be higher at times then others or last longer before they hit seems normal.

 

[Audioz]

for some random jackpots to be higher at times then others or last longer before they hit seems normal.

For some it were okay, but there are all Random Jackpots always fall about $30,000 or even about $40,000 so that's really not normal, because normally the RJs fall on a balance of $10,000 - $20,000 but not much higher.

On Rushmore the RJs fall always when they're about $30,000 and very rarly when they were under $20,000 so this is very mysterious!

Btw. one jackpot is now about $43,600 (Tiger Treasures) so do you think this is normal, because i've never seen such high RJs on any RTG Casino, even on Bodog they will fall up to $20,000 and very rarly a little bit about it, but never so high!

 

[USA2112]

For some it were okay, but there are all Random Jackpots always fall about $30,000 or even about $40,000 so that's really not normal, because normally the RJs fall on a balance of $10,000 - $20,000 but not much higher.

On Rushmore the RJs fall always when they're about $30,000 and very rarly when they were under $20,000 so this is very mysterious!

Btw. one jackpot is now about $43,600 (Tiger Treasures) so do you think this is normal, because i've never seen such high RJs on any RTG Casino, even on Bodog they will fall up to $20,000 and very rarly a little bit about it, but never so high!

It may seem suspicious but you can't change that these are random jackpots, as mentioned above the amount of money shown is determined by amount of money played by the players and does not effect the outcome of the random jackpot hitting. I've seen comparable random jackpots in the past at other RTG's

 

[vinylweatherman]

It may seem suspicious but you can't change that these are random jackpots, as mentioned above the amount of money shown is determined by amount of money played by the players and does not effect the outcome of the random jackpot hitting. I've seen comparable random jackpots in the past at other RTG's

Yes, but this is rare, it seems that it is all too common for the jackpots to get very high before hitting at Rushmore. If they were truly random, the RJ's at Rushmore would, over the long term, hit at the same average value as at other RTG casinos.

A simple comparison could be made between Club World, iNetBet, and Rushmore, logging the value at which the RJ's hit. With a long enough dataset, we would be able to see if there was any statistical significance in the hypothesis that Rushmore RJ's behave differently to others on the RTG platform. All three are considered reputable RTG casinos, so the comparison should be fair. The bigger the sample, the more significant any result would be.

 

[USA2112]

Yes, but this is rare, it seems that it is all too common for the jackpots to get very high before hitting at Rushmore. If they were truly random, the RJ's at Rushmore would, over the long term, hit at the same average value as at other RTG casinos.

A simple comparison could be made between Club World, iNetBet, and Rushmore, logging the value at which the RJ's hit. With a long enough dataset, we would be able to see if there was any statistical significance in the hypothesis that Rushmore RJ's behave differently to others on the RTG platform. All three are considered reputable RTG casinos, so the comparison should be fair. The bigger the sample, the more significant any result would be.

I agree it is rare, as to averages, there's been progressive pots go for years before hitting and other times the same progressive will pay in six months, so I don't see how averages can be used. Now to make an assumption because of what seems to be the normal average is possible, whether it will happen is the question.

To compare random jackpots in different casinos isn't possible, even if it does seem logical. You would have to consider the amount players at each casino, players playing at any given time amount of bets etc, etc, and when it's all said and done none of this is what determines the outcome of a random jackpot in the first place, so I wouldn't see this being an accurate result.

Hey more power to who ever could figure out when random jackpots are going to pay or should pay, let me know and I will be there.

 

[lauram]

Ill join that group with you. I have noticed that if rtg casino has 4 5 slot games with rj around same amount all 4 or 5 go same time. Then day or so later the other set goes with it. Thats all i have been able to notice as far as seeing the rj go as for how much you play per line im not sure on that either i have heard many players hit with 20 cent spins.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I agree it is rare, as to averages, there's been progressive pots go for years before hitting and other times the same progressive will pay in six months, so I don't see how averages can be used. Now to make an assumption because of what seems to be the normal average is possible, whether it will happen is the question.

To compare random jackpots in different casinos isn't possible, even if it does seem logical. You would have to consider the amount players at each casino, players playing at any given time amount of bets etc, etc, and when it's all said and done none of this is what determines the outcome of a random jackpot in the first place, so I wouldn't see this being an accurate result.

Hey more power to who ever could figure out when random jackpots are going to pay or should pay, let me know and I will be there.

All completely irrelevant. The result of one RTG casino having more bets placed on their games than another would be that their RJ's would cycle faster. It would NOT, and COULD not result in them storing up more contributions before hitting, unless, of course, they were not truly random, such as using time, rather than amount played through, to determine when they hit.

Each $ played contributes 1c to the RJ, and the other 99c pays for the base game. Each $1 played gives a fixed chance of the RJ being hit from that dollar, thus for a certain number of bucks played through the game, there is a fixed chance that the RJ will hit during that play. RJ's will hit at various amounts, but overall the fixed nature of these controlling factors would lead to all RJ's at ALL RTG casinos following the same long term pattern of hitting at the same mean value, with the same distribution about that mean. If one RTG casino demonstrates a long term departure from that mean, they have clearly tampered with these controlling variables, lessening the fixed chance of a hit per dollar played would result in the RJ's consistently hitting at a higher long term mean value, and obviously less often. The same effect would result from keeping the chance of hitting per $ played, but increasing the contribution to 2c to the RJ, and only 98c to the base game.

It is actually possible to calculate the chance of an RJ hitting per $ played given enough data about the values of the RJ's when hit, and knowing the rate at which each $ staked adds to the pool. This value should work out about the same at all RTG casinos, within the normal error bounds expected because the sample is not infinite. It is possible to calculate how likely (or how significant) a result is for a given sample size, and this can be expressed as the chance that the results show something significant, or that what they show can be classed as "noise" and not actual trend, due to limits in the sample size. Having done this, you can calculate a table giving the likelihood of an RJ holding out for a particular high value. There will be some that hold out beyond 20K, and others that hit again almost as soon as they hit first. If there is a casino where a large number of their RJ's hit where this probability table expresses the chance of this happening as very low indeed, then something could well be amiss.

This can be likened to other games. In Blackjack, the dealer will get lucky streaks, but what if the dealer ALWAYS had these lucky streaks session after session, ad nauseum - we soon have players crying "foul!" What then if a long sample showed the dealer won 65% of games, say over 100,000 hands - then we might say the game was certainly rigged, and that this could not be the result of a fair deck/shoe of cards.

 

[USA2112]

All completely irrelevant. The result of one RTG casino having more bets placed on their games than another would be that their RJ's would cycle faster. It would NOT, and COULD not result in them storing up more contributions before hitting, unless, of course, they were not truly random, such as using time, rather than amount played through, to determine when they hit.

Each $ played contributes 1c to the RJ, and the other 99c pays for the base game. Each $1 played gives a fixed chance of the RJ being hit from that dollar, thus for a certain number of bucks played through the game, there is a fixed chance that the RJ will hit during that play. RJ's will hit at various amounts, but overall the fixed nature of these controlling factors would lead to all RJ's at ALL RTG casinos following the same long term pattern of hitting at the same mean value, with the same distribution about that mean. If one RTG casino demonstrates a long term departure from that mean, they have clearly tampered with these controlling variables, lessening the fixed chance of a hit per dollar played would result in the RJ's consistently hitting at a higher long term mean value, and obviously less often. The same effect would result from keeping the chance of hitting per $ played, but increasing the contribution to 2c to the RJ, and only 98c to the base game.

It is actually possible to calculate the chance of an RJ hitting per $ played given enough data about the values of the RJ's when hit, and knowing the rate at which each $ staked adds to the pool. This value should work out about the same at all RTG casinos, within the normal error bounds expected because the sample is not infinite. It is possible to calculate how likely (or how significant) a result is for a given sample size, and this can be expressed as the chance that the results show something significant, or that what they show can be classed as "noise" and not actual trend, due to limits in the sample size. Having done this, you can calculate a table giving the likelihood of an RJ holding out for a particular high value. There will be some that hold out beyond 20K, and others that hit again almost as soon as they hit first. If there is a casino where a large number of their RJ's hit where this probability table expresses the chance of this happening as very low indeed, then something could well be amiss.

This can be likened to other games. In Blackjack, the dealer will get lucky streaks, but what if the dealer ALWAYS had these lucky streaks session after session, ad nauseum - we soon have players crying "foul!" What then if a long sample showed the dealer won 65% of games, say over 100,000 hands - then we might say the game was certainly rigged, and that this could not be the result of a fair deck/shoe of cards.

Amount wagered is irrelevant with determining when the random jackpot will hit, that was the point.

And sure there's a probability with all random events such as random jackpots, can they be predicted? not sure they can even with the proper data, here's why.

The 1st spin on a random jackpot machine produces the same odds of the random event happening as the 65,000th spin, to determine when that random event will happen even with certain compiled data would be a best guess. Plus, the long term data you suggest is based on the money contributed to the jackpot, even though the 1c compared to 2c per $1 could effect the amount of the random jackpot at the time of the random event itself. "Which I could see this being questionable" Still this should have nothting to do with the outcome of the random event happening when there is a equal fixed chance with each spin of the wheel. And if he random event happens on the first spin of the wheel of the life of the machine there is no contribution at all. Highly unlikely but the odds of it happening are the same.

My opinion to why these random jackpots can get pretty high at times is the size of bets being placed by the players per amount of spins played.

Example: based on 1000 bets.

Player one, places 1000 bets at $10 each and loses. Total loss $10,000

Player two, places 1000 bets at 20c each and loses. Total loss $200

If the amount contributed to the Random jackpot is 1c per $1

player one contributed $100

player two contributed $2

The random jackpot would be higher due to more players like player one than player two. So, even though they both had the same amount of spins of the wheel and an equal chance of having the random event happen, there is more money contributed to the random jackpot because more players are wagering higher bets.


Hypothedically, say the you have two random jackpots both hitting on 50,000 spins.

The first jackpot has 50,000 spins with $10 wageres and 1c contributed to the random jackpot. The total of the random jackpot at the time of the win would be, $5,000

The second jackpot has 50,000 spins with $5 wageres and 1c contributed to the random jackpot. The total of the random jackpot at the time of the win would be, $2,500

Of course the amount of wagers would vary but I think you can see my point.


One last thing, the probability with a random event happening is base on a certain amount of odds that it will happen. What them odds are, I have no ideal, but I'm sure the odds are different with each situation.

If you take the odds of the random event and the amount wheel spins made by players this would increase the probability of the random event happening, not because the odds change for the random event itself but because there has been more spins of the wheel icreasing the odds of it coming around.

 

[Audioz]

My opinion to why these random jackpots can get pretty high at times is the size of bets being placed by the players per amount of spins played.

But it has nothing to do, how much the bet size is, because you can even hit a RJ with only $1,000 although (and this is the second mysterious thing!) all RJs started directly with $5,000 and not with $1,000 like in all another RTGs.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Amount wagered is irrelevant with determining when the random jackpot will hit, that was the point.

And sure there's a probability with all random events such as random jackpots, can they be predicted? not sure they can even with the proper data, here's why.

The 1st spin on a random jackpot machine produces the same odds of the random event happening as the 65,000th spin, to determine when that random event will happen even with certain compiled data would be a best guess. Plus, the long term data you suggest is based on the money contributed to the jackpot, even though the 1c compared to 2c per $1 could effect the amount of the random jackpot at the time of the random event itself. "Which I could see this being questionable" Still this should have nothting to do with the outcome of the random event happening when there is a equal fixed chance with each spin of the wheel. And if he random event happens on the first spin of the wheel of the life of the machine there is no contribution at all. Highly unlikely but the odds of it happening are the same.

My opinion to why these random jackpots can get pretty high at times is the size of bets being placed by the players per amount of spins played.

Example: based on 1000 bets.

Player one, places 1000 bets at $10 each and loses. Total loss $10,000

Player two, places 1000 bets at 20c each and loses. Total loss $200

If the amount contributed to the Random jackpot is 1c per $1

player one contributed $100

player two contributed $2

The random jackpot would be higher due to more players like player one than player two. So, even though they both had the same amount of spins of the wheel and an equal chance of having the random event happen, there is more money contributed to the random jackpot because more players are wagering higher bets.


Hypothedically, say the you have two random jackpots both hitting on 50,000 spins.

The first jackpot has 50,000 spins with $10 wageres and 1c contributed to the random jackpot. The total of the random jackpot at the time of the win would be, $5,000

The second jackpot has 50,000 spins with $5 wageres and 1c contributed to the random jackpot. The total of the random jackpot at the time of the win would be, $2,500

Of course the amount of wagers would vary but I think you can see my point.


One last thing, the probability with a random event happening is base on a certain amount of odds that it will happen. What them odds are, I have no ideal, but I'm sure the odds are different with each situation.

If you take the odds of the random event and the amount wheel spins made by players this would increase the probability of the random event happening, not because the odds change for the random event itself but because there has been more spins of the wheel icreasing the odds of it coming around.

Not so.

For the games to be fair, the chance is not PER SPIN, but PER $. Although players playing at $5 per spin would contribute 5c each time, they would also have 5x the chance of hitting the RJ on each of those spins, thus the RJ's would be hitting at the same average long term value irrespective of the average size of wagers chosen by players. If the odds really were the same per SPIN, and not per $ wagered, then these slots would be very unfair indeed (for the high wagerers that is), and a player could invest as little as 1c per spin and purely target the RJ's, and this would be a long term, very tedious, but highly profitable strategy.

I suspect there might be something "funky" going on with these particular RJ's. When this first came up, it was not just one of two that were reputed to be very high, it was the FLIPPIN' LOT of them

Only opening an account and playing will reveal whether this "feels right" or not over the long term. Free Play would not work as a means to determine real play behaviour. I play other (reputable) RTG casinos, and have a feel for what "feels right" for the RJ's, even though I have never had one (yet).

 

[USA2112]

Not so.

For the games to be fair, the chance is not PER SPIN, but PER $. Although players playing at $5 per spin would contribute 5c each time, they would also have 5x the chance of hitting the RJ on each of those spins, thus the RJ's would be hitting at the same average long term value irrespective of the average size of wagers chosen by players.

I did not know this, so if a player plays $10 wagers and another plays $1 wagers the odds are 10X's greater the random event will happen for the player who wagered $10?

If so, that in itself says there is a way to manipulate the random jackpots.

 

[vinylweatherman]

But it has nothing to do, how much the bet size is, because you can even hit a RJ with only $1,000 although (and this is the second mysterious thing!) all RJs started directly with $5,000 and not with $1,000 like in all another RTGs.

That is pretty odd in itself, as this is not supposed to happen!!!!! This can mean only one thing, and that is that individual RTG operators can not only set the payouts for the slots and combine several into a single RJ pool, but they can mess about with the chances of an RJ hitting on each bet, as well as determine what they will start at.
If they are seeding them with 5K instead of 1K, then without changing the other parameters this would effectively be giving away 4K for free each time an RJ hits. Even a 5K start would not explain why they get so high, it would only displace the mean value by +4K.

To get them to REGULARLY hit higher, they would have to adjust a few parameters controlling the RJ, such as reducing the chance of a hit per spin.

For example, if you threw a dice, you have a one in six chance of getting a 6 each throw. Weight that dice, and although it looks the same as all the rest, it has a greater chance of landing with the weight at the lowest point rather than the uppermost point. Put that weight on the "6" side, and it will land a good deal less frequently than 1 in 6, and a "1" would be far more frequent than 1 in 6.

With MG software, these parameters are fixed over all casinos. There is no more chance of hitting a progressive playing at one casino than another. It seems that with the RTG local RJ progressives, casinos can set them to hit low and often, or less frequently and higher, which of course induces players to "chase" the higher jackpots as they feel their high value means they are way overdue.

Unless Jade comes on to state that this observation that they start at $5000 is incorrect, or someone can post a shot of a Rushmore RJ below $5000, I have to assume that Rushmore have at least altered ONE parameter (the seeding value), that it is supposedly not possible for individual operators to fiddle with.

This makes me think of the ROGUE casinos, they clearly have FAR MORE scope than I suspected to alter the underlying workings of the game. I have to wonder what else RTG operators can mess with, and to what extent. I have seen allegations that they can disconnect players who are winning and increase the Blackjack to 255 decks instead of 1 or 2, we KNOW they can set slot payouts within a narrow band around 93% to 97% - they can change paytables, and thus overall return, on the card games at will, but at least that is obvious by looking at the paytable.
The big mystery is the slots, random reels?, keno with a slot display?, now it seems even the chance of winning the RJ is not "natural".

I am wondering if the next hit of an RJ is determined as soon as it is reset, and is stored as a set time in the future. Odd though it may seem, it would explain pretty much all the oddities at Rushmore.

1) More $ played, the higher the RJ's would grow before hitting, simply because it would be TIME, and not either spins or dollars that determined it.

2) Seeding at 5K could be compensated for by using a lower setting for the base game, such as 93%. This extra 2% would pay for the extra 4K added to each pool.

3) Grouping several slots into a single pool, and it being time based, would allow the RJ's to grow even faster, and to even higher values.


4) Where's Phynqster when you need him

I did not know this, so if a player plays $10 wagers and another plays $1 wagers the odds are 10X's greater the random event will happen for the player who wagered $10?

If so, that in itself says there is a way to manipulate the random jackpots.

Well, strangely enough, there was a post a while ago about a single player seeming to get one RJ after another. The explanation was that this was a high roller. This player could not play any more spins per given time than any other player, but they were playing $100 a spin rather than 20c, so had much more chance of hitting the Rjs, and it showed!!!


Manipulation? Not really, they were betting $100 a spin, and possibly losing the amount of the RJ in a short time anyway if they hit a bad streak, and the RJ could still have gone to another player.

Prediction? The only thing one can do is predict how to maximise the chance of hitting the RJ, not when to leap on and produce the magic spin.
For progressives that are governed by a specific winline on an UNWEIGHTED video slot, it is possible to calculate the chance of it hitting at each spin, and then calculating whether the level of the progressive justifies chasing it, a point which a bet on all possible outcomes once through gives a 100%+ payout (including the combination that would award the progressive).
Often, in land casinos, when this point is reached you get teams of "pro" players descending on a progressive and feeding it till (hopefully) it hits. Provided they have a big enough bankroll, and work together (and don't get spotted and chucked out), this is a long term way to make a profit.
The same principle can be applied (and indeed IS) to the big lotteries, where the total prize money exceeds the cost of buying a ticket covering every possible combination. In this case, you WILL hit the jackpot, the risk is finding it has been shared to a player not in the group (and the art is in calculating the "value" of this risk, and factoring it into the decision as to whether to hit the lottery, or wait and hope for another roll-over).

 

[Audioz]

More $ played, the higher the RJ's would grow before hitting, simply because it would be TIME, and not either spins or dollars that determined it.

I don't think it's time, but it's an amount which will be choosed from a RNG so as an example if a RJ starts from $1,000 it will be clear, that he will hit at $2,163.53 for an example and not at 12 o' clock p.m. 13 minutes and 27 seconds

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't think it's time, but it's an amount which will be choosed from a RNG so as an example if a RJ starts from $1,000 it will be clear, that he will hit at $2,163.53 for an example and not at 12 o' clock p.m. 13 minutes and 27 seconds

This would work, but it would not explain why the hits are always at such high levels at Rushmore, surely they would hit at similar values as other RTG's, as surely it is a CENTRAL RNG isn't it

If it were indeed values, then Rushmore have their fingers in the process that calculates the values, and have nudged them to be much higher than at other RTG casinos, not supposed to be possible as this would involve tampering with the server itself, and possibly the very first layer of determinations after the RNG produces a number.

It would be the same as suggesting there are MG casinos where Mega Moolah will randomly hit at lower values and often, and others where it will hit at higher values and less often. With RTG's, this would mean that if you wanted to win RJs often, avoid Rushmore, but if you preferred to hit big, chase them down at Rushmore.


Clearly, RTG software does NOT play the same at different casinos, unlike MG, which we can be pretty certain is the same everywhere, and only the promos and service levels differ.