RTG Slots Percentages

[RedKaos]

Never seen this in 5 years of online gambling.

583 spins at 2$ a bet on Achilles slot without triggering a bonus feature.

I will stay away definitevely from this crap.

I don't give a shit losing a few bucks but I'd prefer giving my money to the homeless instead of wasting it in a rogue operator.

 

[Audioz]

I don't want to call them rogue or anything else, but i've experienced also, that after there was fallung some Random Jackpots within a short time, their payout was always very low!

I've made a deposit with $50 and played only with 20 cent bets but doesn't hit anything and the free spins come only as i was dwon to $ 1,60 but it pays nearly nothing (only 53 cent!)

Certainly you can call it only pain, but it's always, when some higher RJs were fallen, like now, because there were very much RJs hit in the last few days (Enchanted Garden nearly $ 6,000, Hillibillies about $5,000, Outta This World about $ 6,000, Cleopatra's Gold about $11,000) and this happens all in the last 1 week, so maybe this is the reason, why we couldn't win there anything now, or it's really only a very bad pain for us all?

 

[LaurieJim]

rogued is a little harsh imo.i have won and i have lost at alot of casinos but imo inetbet still ranks among the top rtg casinos out there.it makes one feel crappy when they go so long without a feature but i dont think its just with inetbet alone, you just have had some bad luck, had you had won, the thread would have a different title, wouldnt it? i wish you luck on finding the perfect online casino.....................laurie

 

[The Dude]

...I don't give a shit losing a few bucks but I'd prefer giving my money to the homeless instead of wasting it in a rogue operator.

You're implying that the operator can switch on or off the win switch. Sorry, that's not the case. It's a bit unfair to point at iNetBet because you didn't hit a bonus round.

 

[Simmo!]

"Achilles" is medium/high variance so while 600 spins without a bonus is more than possible, it's typical of this type of slot. RTG's "Real Series" slots percentage settings take one of 3 forms. Based on memory, these are 97%, 95% and 93% set globally across all slots at a casino. BUT...bear in mind they all have progressive jackpots which will not only reduce the actual expected return in normal play, but will increase the variance - by how much on either I couldn't tell you. If you want regular bonus rounds, then go "low variance" with something like "Derby Dollars". And avoid "Rain Dance"

RTG controls the % settings, not the casino as some widely assume, and a casino has to request a change, justify it to RTG, then wait for around 4-6 months for it to be applied - if it is considered justified (don't ask me how they decide!!).

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And now for a little informative spam: I put the closest approximations to variance for around 200 slots on Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) - use the dropdowns to find slots close to certain variance types. (Sorry if you use Firefox but I didn't have the time or inclination to deal with it's petty layout quibbles )

 

[Audioz]

If you want regular bonus rounds, then go "low variance" with something like "Derby Dollars"

That's not really true, because even this slot pays out nothinh at the moment

As i've mentioned before "I've made a deposit with $50 and played only with 20 cent bets but doesn't hit anything and the free spins come only as i was dwon to $ 1,60 but it pays nearly nothing (only 53 cent!)"

This happens exactly on "Derby Dollars" although i've never experienced such a bad strake on this slot before!

 

[pacers31]

I've never played there, but want to. I just don't want a big document hassle if I want to cash out. Heard many good things about them here, but does anyone know specifically what I would have to send them to cashout? Also, do they take the visa netspend card??

 

[Audioz]

does anyone know specifically what I would have to send them to cashout?

It's all written on their side!

Copy of your passport, utility bill and the hand signed faxbackform with your accountname and/or Neteller/Moneybookers/Credit Card Number/Name

 

[pacers31]

I don't have a passport, not giving them a credit card #, do I have any chance of being paid?? Also, do they take netspend for deposits?? I'm not into the hoop jumping with the document game, that is what has kept me away so far from them. Now if they want my name and address to send the check, I don't mind that at all. We've all gone over the document thing so many times that I don't even want to get started! My ID and creditcards in no way ensure that I am who they think I am. If I go to the trouble to sign up and give my personal details on registration, that should suffice. There is no creditcard protection, only mutual trust or distrust. i.e., casino can tell you to f*** off, we're not paying, player can charge back and there is nothing the casino can do about it. Detente.

 

[Audioz]

I don't have a passport, not giving them a credit card #, do I have any chance of being paid??

I haven't said, that you MUST send them your credit card details, this is only an option, because it depends on which deposit method you'll use!

So if you make a deposit with credit card, you must write certainly this details on your faxback form and sign it with your hand, so they know, that you're really the person, which made this deposit

The same happen, if you make a moneybookers deposit, then you must write your moneybookers emailaddress on the faxbackform and sign it.

But you must only do this one time, so you must not send them for every deposit method one faxbackform, because the first one is certainly enough.

you have no passport? i've never heard this before, that someone didn't have any passport, because every human should/must have one, or not?
you can also send them a drivers licence copy or your identity card, this should also be enough

if you don't want to do this, then it's your own pain, because on every casino normally you must do this, otherwise you won't get your money/withdrawals!

I know only on Bodog, that you have not to send any documents to them, because i played there now about 2 years and made withdrawals also about $2,000 but were never asked about anything from them

 

[just play]

you have no passport? i've never heard this before, that someone didn't have any passport, because every human should/must have one, or not?

You only need a passport if traveling out of United States, I do not have one and probably never will have one. For what reason would I need one if I will never travel out of the USA?


As for the documents, it's just like other casinos, copies of this, copies of that, but I believe Inetbet is the one that makes you take your credit card and use a pencil and scratch in the numbers on a piece of paper

 

[pacers31]

Not true audioz, the few places I play at never have asked for any documents. I don't have a passport because I don't travel outside the US, no need for one. Maybe where you're at it is common, but not in the US. Thanks for the info though, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me if they take netspend or not. Anybody know?? I know, I could check out the site for myself, but I'm kinda busy now and don't want to mess with it. Someone here knows for sure if it is a deposit option or not. Thanks

 

[pacers31]

Yeah JP, that's what I thought. Rubbings of a card somehow proves it is me I guess. Sounds like a load of crap to go through just to get my money. Still haven't heard a good reason for not getting this info before the first deposit, the hell with the "it will cost them business" excuse. They don't have a problem with taking potentially stolen cards, etc., but don't want to give it back just as easily as they took it. Sucks JP, do you know about the netspend thing??

 

[Audioz]

You only need a passport if traveling out of United States, I do not have one and probably never will have one. For what reason would I need one if I will never travel out of the USA?

Sorry, but i doesn't live in the USA, so i can't know this, because we must have one to identify us, if we get an important letter, or something else which is very important and only for this specially person, but USA is certainly not Europe

I know, I could check out the site for myself, but I'm kinda busy now and don't want to mess with it.

You're too busy to read it on their webside, but you're not to busy, to ask us all this questions?

Sorry, but i think, that you've got even too much help, because you know exactly where you can find it, but don't want to do this, because we are dumb enough to waste our time for you, or do you think, we have too much time for you!?

If you've looked on their homepage you've found it within even 30 seconds, but you steal our time for nothing, because you're only too tired for searching?

 

[just play]

Sorry, but i doesn't live in the USA, so i can't know this, because we must have one to identify us, if we get an important letter, or something else which is very important and only for this specially person, but USA is certainly not Europe

Why can't you just use your drivers licence? Yes USA is certainly not Europe


Pacers, I believe you can use Netspend.

 

[Audioz]

Why can't you just use your drivers licence?

I can certainly use it also, but there are also things, on which i can't use my drivers license only, or as an example, if you'll marry, then you need also your passport

But this have now nothing to do with this thread

 

[LaurieJim]

yes you can use netspend...yes you can use wired plastic as thats what i use to deposit there withas being from the U.S , we are limited to casinos and im just glad inetbet has the reputation it does and they pay fast, i know , i hit 2 r/j there in april and i was paid within hours, thus being the reason im so fast to praise them. we in the U.S should be glad we do have some decent casinos out there..................laurie

 

[jimdog]

This is fun. Maybe we should start WWIII

 

[kakata]

I think Mike 031 is(was) back, although I use to like him and never had any argument, I see some similarity....am I wrong?

 

[Simmo!]

2 Days "warm-down" period for Audioz and Pacers31. Come back and start that crap again and it'll be a lot longer!

 

[paul02085]

"RTG controls the % settings, not the casino as some widely assume, and a casino has to request a change, justify it to RTG, then wait for around 4-6 months for it to be applied - if it is considered justified (don't ask me how they decide!!)."

If this is true i am sure it is only if they want to raise the payout %, not lower it. Its laughable to think that Michael Staw would require justification to lower payout %'s with his past actions "running" RTG.

 

[lauram]

I deposit daily so at best on one day i have at least 3 4 casinos with money in them. rtg mg rival and 3dice, now with saying that ive never seen bonus rounds or free spins in a lot of dif slots. Rtg aladdin for one. mg geesh dont even know where to start with that group have at least 20 never hit spins or a bonus round. Rival my first time for scary was this week for free spins never once seen a bonus or more then a 20 cent pay out to me in dogpound or that new islot3, 3dice ive hit them all some nice ones some so so ones. But i feel the same a lot of times when you hit nothing after nothing, starts to make you wonder if they have a way to tighten the slots up to play for last months jackpot hits.

 

[LaurieJim]

boy oh boy ,run to the store for a few things, come back and find two of your forum friends banned, i really didnt see anything wrong imo with what they posted, but ill keep quite, dont want to see my name in redsimmo does know best.........................laurie

 

[bb28]

Well.....well, well, my DSL was out for about 16 hours and I'm catching up and I see a couple of people got banned. I'm a little confused as to what for however. Seems pretty minor considering a while back in another thread pacers pretty much told me to f myself and I don't think he even got his hand slapped for that.

I know you not obligated to tell us Simmo, but why not enlighten us as to what the ban is for?????

 

[chuchu59]

"RTG controls the % settings, not the casino as some widely assume, and a casino has to request a change, justify it to RTG, then wait for around 4-6 months for it to be applied - if it is considered justified (don't ask me how they decide!!)."

If this is true i am sure it is only if they want to raise the payout %, not lower it. Its laughable to think that Michael Staw would require justification to lower payout %'s with his past actions "running" RTG.

I recall Inet stating their payout % is set at 95% although I am amused as to how I cannot reach even 50% of their WRs consistently for the Tuesday coupon at CM and low rolling at 0.20 per spin As for RTG itself, I dont trust them much especially since they distance themself from player issues, control % settings and if Inet is to be believed wont even supply me with the House Way for setting Paigow Poker (implying something to hide or incompetent?).

In another thread, I said I was not pleased with the outcomes of Baccarat games at Inet. I have played a total 122 hands, winning 50 (I always bet on Banker), losing 62 and tying 10 times. Payout is slightly less than 80%. The sample size is small but tilted heavily in favor of the casino but I dont have enough funds to try out a large samle. Given RTG's ability to set % in slots, I am inclined to believe they might be able to set the % in table games as well.

As for Inetbet, I am disappointed at their indifferent attitude whenever some concerns or complaints are raised especially in the last year or so. If you have adverse comments on them in this forum, they are unhappy about it and tell you it shouldnt say these things in public. If you write to them, their replies just make you sick. Frankly, other than paying out promptly, they are simply at the bottom of the league when it comes to customer service so why bother with this casino. I hope Rushmore accepts MB soon so that couple with Club World, I can have at least 2 casinos to patronize.

 

[suzecat]

boy oh boy ,run to the store for a few things, come back and find two of your forum friends banned, i really didnt see anything wrong imo with what they posted, but ill keep quite, dont want to see my name in redsimmo does know best.........................laurie

Well.....well, well, my DSL was out for about 16 hours and I'm catching up and I see a couple of people got banned. I'm a little confused as to what for however. Seems pretty minor considering a while back in another thread pacers pretty much told me to f myself and I don't think he even got his hand slapped for that.

I know you not obligated to tell us Simmo, but why not enlighten us as to what the ban is for?????

I think they were given a couple days to chill (before they went nuts)

 

[happygobrokey]

yes you have to print a piece of paper from their site, fill in the details pertaining to the deposit method, and sign to verify, then scan it back to them. plus a photo id, and card image if applicable. i never had to do a pencil/carbon imprint of the raised card digits though lmao that's a little uber-anal since you can buy tons of stuff online by just typing the numbers, no image, no imprint. inet is probably the most documentation because of this extra special deposit verification form thing, but as with every it's a one-off. glad when i was hunting random bonuses irregard to casino quality that i was using neteller or moneybookers, but i'm sure a couple less than airtight trustworthy joints have images of my vital identification documents, blighters.

 

[Simmo!]

i really didnt see anything wrong imo with what they posted, but ill keep quite, dont want to see my name in redsimmo does know best.........................laurie

I know you not obligated to tell us Simmo, but why not enlighten us as to what the ban is for?????

Trust me when I say it got pretty nasty to the point where it could quite clearly be deemed racist. Aside from which it was derailing the thread.

I think they were given a couple days to chill (before they went nuts)

Spot on

 

[Zoozie]

583 spins at 2$ a bet on Achilles slot without triggering a bonus feature.

This is not that unusual and somehow slots are good at giving this delusion, which is also why players keep playing them. Never wondering why 99.9% of slot players feels unlucky overall? The are not unlucky, they are just experiencing what slots are designed to do.

It make matters worse that you play RTG slots since they have payout% a lot
lower than many other software providers. Even on high settings (INetBet etc.) I believe they are set to 94-95%, which is still 2% less than most MG/Wagerworks/3Dice/Rival.

There is 1% chance of going 650 spins or more without hitting the feature on a slot with normal parameters. Here is an old post plotting the probabilities of not hitting the feature in a certain range of spins. Personally I have done 800+ spin several times without feature. Accept and understand the consequences of slot or stop playing then and whining on board. This forum does not need more slot whiners.

Still remember even WHEN you hit the feature, it only pays around 30*bet size in average.

Link to plot:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/scattered-odds.16965/

 

[The Dude]

boy oh boy ,run to the store for a few things, come back and find two of your forum friends banned, i really didnt see anything wrong imo with what they posted, but ill keep quite, dont want to see my name in redsimmo does know best.........................laurie

Well.....well, well, my DSL was out for about 16 hours and I'm catching up and I see a couple of people got banned. I'm a little confused as to what for however. Seems pretty minor considering a while back in another thread pacers pretty much told me to f myself and I don't think he even got his hand slapped for that.

I know you not obligated to tell us Simmo, but why not enlighten us as to what the ban is for?????

The argument escalated to an embarrassing exchange of Nazi references and "shut your mother f***king mouth" sort of thing. Simmo! was spot on with removing the posts and handing out two days in the pokey.

Side note: if any member here is offended by a post or feels that they are being verbally harassed, please use the "report a post" function. Some of you do, thanks - but the moderators and I can only respond to things we are aware of. I was busy watching France lose to Italy when this occurred

 

[Simmo!]

I was busy watching France lose to Italy when this occurred

Me too LOL. Thank heavens for half-time

 

[Zoozie]

The argument escalated to an embarrassing exchange of Nazi references

Godwin's law in effect:

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[jod5413]

This is not that unusual and somehow slots are good at giving this delusion, which is also why players keep playing them. Never wondering why 99.9% of slot players feels unlucky overall? The are not unlucky, they are just experiencing what slots are designed to do.

It make matters worse that you play RTG slots since they have payout% a lot
lower than many other software providers. Even on high settings (INetBet etc.) I believe they are set to 94-95%, which is still 2% less than most MG/Wagerworks/3Dice/Rival.

There is 1% chance of going 650 spins or more without hitting the feature on a slot with normal parameters. Here is an old post plotting the probabilities of not hitting the feature in a certain range of spins. Personally I have done 800+ spin several times without feature. Accept and understand the consequences of slot or stop playing then and whining on board. This forum does not need more slot whiners.
Still remember even WHEN you hit the feature, it only pays around 30*bet size in average.

Link to plot:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/scattered-odds.16965/

Spot On, Zoozie!!!!

 

[ptm85028]

Hate to make my 1st. post a Bitch

I have to agree with the complaints about Inetbet. Very poor payouts on all the games I tried. Seemed way worse than other RTG sites.

 

[zebedy]

I've never played there, but want to. I just don't want a big document hassle if I want to cash out. Heard many good things about them here, but does anyone know specifically what I would have to send them to cashout? Also, do they take the visa netspend card??

i also dont have a passport or driving licence i sent them my birth certificate/utility bill/bank statement and they were fine with it, you might be ok without a pic id but as i learnt it might pay to find out first before you deposit

 

[same_old]

I have never EVER in the 2 1/2 years I have played nline casino's had a cashout with the RTG software. out of Inetbet,Clubworld and Bodog- i find Bodog the best by far, I seem to get a lot more play time with Bodog. Admittedly I have only played at Clubworld once after seeing Laurie have a decent run a while back but nothing as yet has come my way.
I dont normally like playing at RTG becuase of the high variance and the RJ's help make them tight aswell.
Microgaming at least you get a good run for your dollar.

 

[LaurieJim]

I have never EVER in the 2 1/2 years I have played nline casino's had a cashout with the RTG software. out of Inetbet,Clubworld and Bodog- i find Bodog the best by far, I seem to get a lot more play time with Bodog. Admittedly I have only played at Clubworld once after seeing Laurie have a decent run a while back but nothing as yet has come my way.
I dont normally like playing at RTG becuase of the high variance and the RJ's help make them tight aswell.
Microgaming at least you get a good run for your dollar.

...........i still like inetbet and clubworld, i play low and try to build it up, but i will admit i lost my butt at club today but as im on this new budget my deposits have been real slim, trying to do better with self control less money for the casinos and more money to spend at starbucks and wally-world (wal-mart)..........laurie

 

[catrina m]

I haved played at inet several years ( before the ban)

They require proper ID and if you win they pay

I admit its hard to win there but I have.

Jeez, quit gambling a week or 2 and miss all the excitement of a forum brawl, lol.

Good Luck all and may lady luck shine on your bank account!

 

[pacers31]

My final word on this and I will not post again for the foreseeable future. I felt that Audioz initial post regarding my question was rude. I then tried to get him to mellow out about it and he called me a mother fucking nazi. Hence, my nazi references directed at him. I respect Simmo!'s decision to ban me for a couple of days in the interest peace in the neighborhood so to speak. I am sorry if my comments were offensive to anyone else, they were only directed at the intended target. That will teach me to match wits with twits.

bb, I never told you to go F yourself, did you get my PM I sent explaining the situation with lookaway?? Again, don't judge the book until you've read the story. Sorry if you took it the wrong way. To those of you who I have interacted with me here that kind of "know" me, I apologize for my rant. In the future I will attempt to ignore the threats and profanity sent my way. I guess I can't respond now or I'll get banned. SO, I will be looking and lurking for awhile.

Adios Audioz!

 

[Audioz]

I don't understand, why you start again this crap?

I gaved you some tipps and even helped you with some things and as i said,that i won't help you again, because your sentence was "i know where i can get all my answers from my questions, but i don't want to look for it, because i have not enough time for it" i told you, that i never want to help you again, because you had enough time to post here the whole day.
Then you called me "Hitler", because i'm from austria and he is also born here and said these forbidden words (Sieg Heil!) and then i started to name you also bad words!

But now it's over, so i hope you can stop with this nonsense, thanks for your understanding!

Sorry for all another members here, that you must read this totally silly nonsense!

Now i hope, that this were the last words about this sinless theme!

 

[The Dude]

Admin Warning

Again, another silly derailment.

@pacers1 - if you are having difficulty abiding by the forum rules then it's time to move on. The rules of no flaming, no derailing, and keeping personal agenda out of the forum is set up to respect the forum and our fellow members. If you have a personal issue with AudioZ, that's your business, and frankly the majority of us couldn't give a flying rats ass.

These messages (sans abuse) need to be kept in PMs, not posted here. You derail the threads which is annoying as hell because you disrupt the conversation. It's a self-centered way to behave; it's like dealing with a twelve-year-old.

If your account is suspended again in the future, it will be for much longer than a couple of days.

 

[suzecat]

I have never EVER in the 2 1/2 years I have played nline casino's had a cashout with the RTG software. out of Inetbet,Clubworld and Bodog- i find Bodog the best by far, I seem to get a lot more play time with Bodog. Admittedly I have only played at Clubworld once after seeing Laurie have a decent run a while back but nothing as yet has come my way.
I dont normally like playing at RTG becuase of the high variance and the RJ's help make them tight aswell.
Microgaming at least you get a good run for your dollar.

Quite interesting.............I have found the opposite to be true. Lost my shirt at the MGs I tried and never cashed out at Bodog........and believe me, I tried. Had reasonable luck at Clubworld and stellar luck at Inetbet. FWIW, if you don't hit anything in the first 10 spins, move to another game.

 

[Zodiac]

I think Mike 031 is(was) back, I wrong?

i think the same but maybe i'm also wrong
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
pacers31 vs. Audioz

I don't like to attack none of them and one can surely also make a joke about it but you both must make attention that no one understands incorrectly, i think you both are old enough.

And i believe a little bit more respect for one another sounds all of us good.

Hope that all can clear now between them.

How mike031 always said: back to topic

 

[The Dude]

Admin Note: renamed thread

renamed thread from "Stay away from InetBet!!!" to RTG Slots Percentages. It's rather unfair to choose one casino to blame for not having a good slot run.

 

[RedKaos]

renamed thread from "Stay away from InetBet!!!" to RTG Slots Percentages. It's rather unfair to choose one casino to blame for not having a good slot run.

I would have said, Stay away from RTG software.
I don't want to blame InetBet.

Sorry,

df

 

[lauram]

I find rtg mg rival playtech 3dice playboy name them all if they arent hitting they arent hitting. Deposit in a few dif casinos and shut down when enough is enough of dead spins its got to turn around at some point.

As far as the few that are at each other cant those 2 hit the attic posts and respond to each other, by reading few posts here it seems a few of the group doesnt mind the match at all. Could have side bets on these as well lol just kidding.

 

[lovetogamble]

InetBet

FWIW, if you don't hit anything in the first 10 spins, move to another game.

I found this to be true myself or it has for me. I've won 3 RJ's in the past, one at Breakaway (3 years ago) and 2 at iNetBet this year. (I hit the King Tut RJ Sunday for $1,800). All 3 seem to hit the RJ within the first few spins. May be just me but that has been my experience.

I only play at 3 casinos, iNetbet, Club World, 3Dice. My favorite by far is iNetBet although I sometimes get really upset with them (usually my over reacting hormones) but by far they have treated me the best there and I don't think they tweak with the payouts and are probably the fairest of all.
It's just sometimes your hitting and sometimes your not. It's like fishing...if you caught fish ever time they'd call it "gathering" not fishing...if you win all the time it would be called "taking" not "gambling".

 

[Mousey]

I don't know if this has been pointed out already, but we must remember that (if online slots RNG is set up like land based slots) payout percentages apply to the game. Over the lifetime of any particular game, payout percentage should be very near the expected pecentage (94 - 95% or whatever). This is not a guarantee that each player will see that payout percentage in their own stats. Player 1 may make a killing, hitting left and right. Player 2 (me! ) may see their money disappear like water through a sieve.

In the end, after the game has seen a gazllion spins, the payout percentage is within the expected range, even though most players are broke -- but one or two players buy a new Mercedes.... And then there are the 'in betweens'....

I am not a mathhead (thank heaven for them!) but that is my understanding... Zoozie and others who understand the math may be able to explain it better or correct me if needed.

Having said all that... it doesn't mean I like losing $25 in 4 minutes, or that I will continue to feed the casino(s) either....

Something of note... players who have been playing for years see that the payout percentages overall have dropped. Anyone remember 98%... 98.7%... 99.2%....

 

[lauram]

How true im relatively new to all this jan this year and i recall reading few of my fav slots at the 99% mark or just under and now it shows 95 96. But in all fairness if you look at it this way your % of what you fed into that slot doesnt mean thats what you would get back. Maybe if you are the only on that machine at land based casino and played till the sucker hit then yes. But if you notice rtg you either go in and they are dead or they are hitting all over the place, few ways to look at this lucky streak the connection you logged into is on a roll or your on a downward spin. You could sit there and play that machine 1000 spins player next to you 1000 spins and they hit features left and right meanwhile you hit nothing. Take a close look at the mg tourneys as playing hit the box that shows you the top 20 your sitting down around 1800 win chips they are in the 100 thousands. So thats another way of showing you that just cause you click away thinking its coming that machine hasnt a clue you did 1000 spins its time to give your something back. Slots have no feelings no sympathy no nothing if you hit the lucky spin you hit that lucky spin it owes us nothing we are the ones feeding it not them asking to be fed. In 6 months of playing i have many slots never hit feature or free spins on and yet i still give them a shot time and time again.

 

[peteyweestro]

the only place i seem to be able to hit any kind of wins at all is at rival lately,i just tried grand mondial and played the osbournes and mucho grandes and got $20 over my deposit in the first night but then the vacum turned on again as usual...thank god i have the willpower to limit my deposits to $50 a pay period win or lose....by the way kakata i too believe that mike 031 is back in disguise,lol