Royalvegas confiscated 8000 Euros - fraudulent claim

[Stanford]

Agree to Disagree

You mean whether or not the OP should be paid? If the OP is a fraudster, then obviously he should not be paid - and he should be banned from the forum. If he violated the terms and conditions, then the casino has the right to determine whether or not the winnings should be honored. Hopefully early this week I can take a look at his PAB (he submitted one on Friday) and try to figure out what happened.

We will agree to disagree. Most things boil down to two rules.

1. A bet made is a bet paid.
2. Thou shalt not cheat.

If he is a fraudster, fine and dandy.

If it is a misunderstanding over the bonus and they want to argue about the bonus, that's one thing. If they want to void winnings, that violates rule number 1. After all, they can structure promos to pay after the wagering requirements are satisfied.

I think the irregular play rules are about as clear as mud anyway. So whether the nonpayment excuse is use of autoplay, or bonus abuse or irregular play or I don't like your family - I think rule number one should be enforced. Otherwise the casino is breaking rule number 2. You know how you can tell? Because they do one thing when they win and they do another when they lose.

BTW, if the industry would enforce these two rules which are basically the same two rules that land based casinos have enforced, the online casinos would structure smaller sign up bonuses. Those type bonuses are really designed to steal customers from each other. In the end, the honest ones would benefit. The dishonest ones wouldn't.

Stanford.

 

[gmblpdam]

I'm taking a few moments tonight to respond to your post.

Number one: If you had bothered to actually read my original response, I was pointing out to the OP why the casino probably closed his account. I was not siding with anyone.

Another thing, apparently this guy is being accused of fraud. I am not privy to his account or why his account was closed. I stated that eCOGRA is privy to these things. If the guy PABs via here, I can see if I can check this out myself. Bit honestly, I would probably be wasting my time.

Another thing, I was one of the most outspoken persons concerning the FL fiasco last Spring, and probably the first webmaster to remove them from a major website. To imply that I am just sitting around here not giving a damn or not doing a damn thing is probably the stupidest comment I've read in a long time. Obviously you haven't a clue to what I am all about.

I don't side with a player just because he's a player. It's a shame that a number of you can't get past this, but it's always been this way. If a player fails to read the terms and conditions, or decides he is not going to abide by them - then he is pretty much SOL. I don't make the rules, the casinos do. It's up to the player to abide by these, and if a player does not understand why he/she has been locked out, then I will try to explain why - like I did here.

Apparently, you understand this as me taking sides. Perhaps you should read my posts a bit more carefully before jumping to conclusions.

The bottom line is players who commit fraud or purposely break the casino T&Cs deserve no pity. And I should make it clear that they won't get it here.

Your right, I did jump to conclusions. If there is fraud involved, then the player certainly does not deserve to be paid. I'm certainly not here to argue that.

However, what I was saying was, that you instantly jumped to the bonus abuser conclusion. I was pointing out, and Cargal backed me up with specific examples, that you immediately tell anyone that played with a bonus that they are abusing the system and don't deserve to be paid. You don't seem to want to help anyone that plays at casinos with a lick of sense. It seems like you cater to basically degenerates who are just playing to watch the reels spin and money change hands (look at your winner screenshots thread). I understand, slot junkies pay the bills.

It just kills me to see these casinos blatantly robbing players, and you saying "its your fault, your play style fits the casinos catch all cause". You have a bunch of great casinos listed on your website, tell them to play there. But don't tell them they are in the wrong for their playing style. Especially in a case like this, the guy likes to gamble, let him gamble.

 

[lojo]

I would have taken umbrage by giving you negative rep points with an explaination, and not responding here - but I've given too much 'luv' already today, so your name on my ignore file is an option without responding in kind.

You don't seem to want to help anyone that plays at casinos with a lick of sense. It seems like you cater to basically degenerates who are just playing to watch the reels spin and money change hands

 

[Pinababy69]

It seems like you cater to basically degenerates who are just playing to watch the reels spin and money change hands (look at your winner screenshots thread). I understand, slot junkies pay the bills.

Wow, so anyone who prefers playing slots, AND who just prefers to play for enjoyment (with maybe the hope of getting lucky and winning) is a degenerate?

I agree with you on the Winner Screenshots thread, I hate it, and I think it's misleading to "some". But there are also many people who play slots who know very well that those shots in WS are nothing more than the highlights, and who simply enjoy putting in their $25 or $50 and spinning the reels...and every once in a blue moon, hitting something worth cashing out.

To call anyone who plays slots a degenerate is a pretty low blow. As long as they're not blowing their rent/mortgage money, and are playing within their means, how does that make them a degenerate?

 

[lojo]

Online ain't Vegas

There is no NGC here abouts

The best thing going is Casinomeister.com
+++++++++++++

Bonuses are for people who don't understand the joy of gambling

Gambling is for gamblers

Bonuses online and incentives in Casinos are two different animals.
++++++++++++++

 

[chuchu59]

When will we ever learn? Namecalling just results you in getting whipped (no offense Pina). Hehe.

 

[Stanford]

Bonuses are for people who don't understand the joy of gambling

Gambling is for gamblers

Bonuses online and incentives in Casinos are two different animals.
++++++++++++++

No, they are the same animal.

Bonuses are for any number of things. Casino incentives are for any number of things as well. Some people will pay $1,000 to get that free room and meal. Some people won't.

Gambling is for gamblers is certainly a correct statement. And when a gambler loses he pays up. He doesn't say, but I didn't mean to. Or security did a background check and you are not a nice gambler. Or you said bad things about me at a forum. Or that's irregular play. Or bonus abuse.

I understand you don't think players should take bonuses. That's fine. I think people should play with bonuses. I just don't think it should take a lawyer to decipher them. And if we enforce a "bet made is a bet paid", that would all work itself out.

You can always tell how fair things are by if they cut both ways. If you are a fraudster, you lose your deposit and your winnings. Fair enough. If the Casino fails to payup and gets called on it and then eventually concedes, it gets an atta boy for doing what should have been done in the first place - and no other penalty. The casino gets a free shot for its fraud, unlike the fraudster player. Then the casino invents new terms that substitutes irregular play for bonus abuse and do it again.

Royal Vegas is worse then Casino Domain. At least with rigged software there was still some chance of winning. With this take the bet and decide later approach there isn't.

I do agree with your admiration for our host. I just don't agree with him here... so far. If he opens this door to not paying winnings, it's going to be tuff to draw a line.

You may not recall there have been other challenges in the past. At one time using autoplay was bonus abuse. It was clearly labeled. Spearmaster just wouldn't accept it and he was right to not do so. He said you can't make a feature of the software bonus abuse. So now we can make a amount of bet allowed by that same software "irregular play"?

As Vinalweatherman points out, just set the software not to accept large bets. Or small bets. Or only $10 bets.

Stanford.

 

[gmblpdam]

I wasn't trying to call anyone that plays slots a "degenerate". I was just saying that the winner screenshots is full of $100 pulls of VP and $50 pulls on slots. I like looking at the winner screenshots too, but let's call a spade a spade here. A few have big wins, but most lose.

I just don't like it that anyone who likes to gamble, but also takes part in promotions when they are offered, is immediately labeled a bonus abuser and a problematic player. Why is it that they are berated as soon as they come in here? Are they any less deserving of getting paid and having an enjoyable casino experience? That's all I'm trying to say here.

 

[Pinababy69]

I wasn't trying to call anyone that plays slots a "degenerate". I was just saying that the winner screenshots is full of $100 pulls of VP and $50 pulls on slots. I like looking at the winner screenshots too, but let's call a spade a spade here. A few have big wins, but most lose.

But that's what you said, although you have now clarified, so fair enough. Lord knows I've made enough statements that didn't come out the way I intended them to.

And I absolutely agree with you on the WS thread. Like I said, that thread is only the highlights, but not everyone realizes that. They think that someone who regularly plays VP or slots at $25 a hand/pull, wins like that all the time. And it is just not so. Personally, I look at it as nothing more than pretty pictures, and when someone I know hits something good, I'm happy for them. But overall, I'd be just as happy if it were gone.

Carry on with your bonus discussion, didn't mean to derail.

 

[kauphy]

rampaco3,

The industry is hurting with the loss of US players. Casinos are going to be running gambits to pull in players, but they are also going to be looking for reasons not to pay off. You really have to be careful.

If you are sharing your computer, there isn't much you can do. You will look like a fraudster. Assuming you are not a fraudster, you still have to be careful. Very careful.

Look at this rule:

16. For any wager made, the wager is deducted from your Cash Balance first. If there is no cash available, then the wager is deducted from the Bonus Balance. This effectively means that credits in the Player's bonus balance are only played if there is no cash balance.

If I read this correctly, all the lost money comes off your cash first. Only after you lose all your cash do you get to the bonus money.

Then you have:

27. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets using your entire or the majority of your account balance, where the majority of that balance is made up of bonus balance. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute irregular play for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus play-through requirements.

To tell you the truth, I dont know what rule 27 even means in light of rule 16. I guess you have to make smaller and smaller wagers. At some point, you may not have anything but bonus money left. So you make a $50 bet and most of that is bonus money and that is irregular play I guess. Who knows?

And you arent supposed to know. Thats what all that sole discretion mumbo jumbo is about.

If anyone wants to play this promo, PM me and we can discuss a strategy. You will need a big bankroll because you need to play this with some variance. But even if you score, you still might not get paid. Irregular play is just code for bonus abuse which is just code for smart play. This promo with its escape clauses is the Internet version of 3 Card Monti.

Last time in LV I watched a guy running 3 Card Monti on the sidewalk. One guy won to make it look legit. He was the accomplice. But the others lost at $100 a pop. Thats what this promo is like. And eCOGRA? that would be the accomplice. Like FL told you, eCOGRA isnt going to care. They are just there to make the game look legit.

Really, my advice is to learn to play poker. You wont get scammed and it is a lot more fun. And if you want to play at a casino dont pick Fortune Lounge. And if your play is smart, dont be surprised if the casino reneges. You are not really suppose to win you know.

Stanford.

you guys i full of it i have played at fortune lounge casinos for 6 years and never have anything like this happened to me and i,ve won on the bonus money and i,ve gotten paid. i love the fortune lounge casinos and the people who work at them and i don,t think you should badmouth them unless you know the whole story. kathy

 

[Stanford]

Think again

you guys i full of it i have played at fortune lounge casinos for 6 years and never have anything like this happened to me and i,ve won on the bonus money and i,ve gotten paid. i love the fortune lounge casinos and the people who work at them and i don,t think you should badmouth them unless you know the whole story. kathy

Good. Remind us if anything ever happens and you don't get paid. We want to remember to say - "You are full of it. Nothing like that ever happened to us. So we don't care if you don't get paid. How can we? We can never know the full story." Even though the full story is pretty well laid out in the Ts&Cs.

If I sound a bit catty it's because I was here for the wars in the early days. Oh it was grand. Casinos were giving away money. Can you imagine wagering requirements of 3 times bonus or 5 times bonus? It was amazing. Advantage players were everywhere.

There were more watchdogs too. Spearmaster, Joe Plumber, Booth at Got2Bet. Spearmaster was awesome in keeping the lid on the Microgamings. Jetset and Dom were there. Original Mary was a force by herself. Julie Sidwell at Gambling Grumbles was great. Michael Shackleford took down Casino Domain by himself and almost got himself sued in the process - well threatened anyway. But advantage players forced down fairness as well. They banded together and were extremely active. If you want, I can link some of those old threads and you can see for yourself.

And thats what you guys have to do. It doesn't matter who plays with a bonus and who doesn't. It doesn't matter if it is you or another player that doesn't get paid. You can't leave it all up to one watchdog. Stand behind your players and if one doesn't get paid - then all of you pitch a bitch. Not with CM - with the casino.

It isn't that hard. A casino takes a bet. A casino pays the winner.

Or don't band together. It's over for me. I won't be playing anymore. So it isn't any skin off my nose. But it was grand... once.... Up to you. Could be again.

Stanford.

PS - The reason FL is so nice for you now, is because a bunch of us pushed back very hard when they went to carry over wager requirements. Otherwise, it wouldn't be as nice.

 

[chuchu59]

Stanford,

I wasnt there to watch you guys but I am sure you did a mighty job to keep the casinos in check. I was a newbie then and Julie Sidwell helped me a lot in those early days. Bless her.

 

[lojo]

I understand you don't think players should take bonuses. That's fine. I think people should play with bonuses. I just don't think it should take a lawyer to decipher them. And if we enforce a "bet made is a bet paid", that would all work itself out.

Ahh, but where is the road to this utopia? It is simple, concise. My suggestion is that people do not play with a bonus that has more than ten lines of T&C... but that's not going to happen. Is the path to 'bet made, bet paid' through constant pressure to clarify and honor terms? It hasn't worked so far, only made them more complicated and potentially vague.

I don't have the answer... why don't we hold up the casinos we know to be offering clear concise and fair terms as an example? Why not only play there?

Sdaddy and/or aka23 I believe mentioned some... I recall xxlclub seemed reasonable, 3Dice is pioneering. What are some others? I can almost imagine a day where if a casino accepts a bet and doesn't pay (for whatever reason) they become rogue. That would take a lot of change, alot of change.

 

[kauphy]

Good. Remind us if anything ever happens and you don't get paid. We want to remember to say - "You are full of it. Nothing like that ever happened to us. So we don't care if you don't get paid. How can we? We can never know the full story." Even though the full story is pretty well laid out in the Ts&Cs.

If I sound a bit catty it's because I was here for the wars in the early days. Oh it was grand. Casinos were giving away money. Can you imagine wagering requirements of 3 times bonus or 5 times bonus? It was amazing. Advantage players were everywhere.

There were more watchdogs too. Spearmaster, Joe Plumber, Booth at Got2Bet. Spearmaster was awesome in keeping the lid on the Microgamings. Jetset and Dom were there. Original Mary was a force by herself. Julie Sidwell at Gambling Grumbles was great. Michael Shackleford took down Casino Domain by himself and almost got himself sued in the process - well threatened anyway. But advantage players forced down fairness as well. They banded together and were extremely active. If you want, I can link some of those old threads and you can see for yourself.

And thats what you guys have to do. It doesn't matter who plays with a bonus and who doesn't. It doesn't matter if it is you or another player that doesn't get paid. You can't leave it all up to one watchdog. Stand behind your players and if one doesn't get paid - then all of you pitch a bitch. Not with CM - with the casino.

It isn't that hard. A casino takes a bet. A casino pays the winner.

Or don't band together. It's over for me. I won't be playing anymore. So it isn't any skin off my nose. But it was grand... once.... Up to you. Could be again.

Stanford.

PS - The reason FL is so nice for you now, is because a bunch of us pushed back very hard when they went to carry over wager requirements. Otherwise, it wouldn't be as nice.

look if your worried about getting paid then don,t use the bonus nobody forced him to take it. and as for them being nice to me well the way the u.s is today its hard to come by a casino on-line that gives a crap about anyone from the u.s but fl does and i don,t belive its caz a bunch of people pushed back maybe that helped but from the way i see it that was a long time ago or maybe not nobody gave a timeframe? i have played at almost all of the on-line casinos and there were alot of good ones out there until the u.s did what it did and then they all ran with thier tails between thier legs and only a handfull stayed and kept u.s players and fl was one of them. i,ve never said that i have not had promnles with them but we get it worked out. maybe the guy or girl jumped the gun and in the end it will get worked out none of us know right now and i don,t blame anyone for getting mad at not getting paid and i guess everyone has to judge for themselfs if a casino is good or not. but by playing on-line we all take a chance at not getting paid and taking a bonus is a risk you as the player has to decied if its worth it or not. i love fl and will cont to play there i do hope in the end that the person gets the money owed to them if not maybe theres more to it then we know. rock on fl kathy

 

[gmblpdam]

look if your worried about getting paid then don,t use the bonus nobody forced him to take it. and as for them being nice to me well the way the u.s is today its hard to come by a casino on-line that gives a crap about anyone from the u.s but fl does and i don,t belive its caz a bunch of people pushed back maybe that helped but from the way i see it that was a long time ago or maybe not nobody gave a timeframe? i have played at almost all of the on-line casinos and there were alot of good ones out there until the u.s did what it did and then they all ran with thier tails between thier legs and only a handfull stayed and kept u.s players and fl was one of them. i,ve never said that i have not had promnles with them but we get it worked out. maybe the guy or girl jumped the gun and in the end it will get worked out none of us know right now and i don,t blame anyone for getting mad at not getting paid and i guess everyone has to judge for themselfs if a casino is good or not. but by playing on-line we all take a chance at not getting paid and taking a bonus is a risk you as the player has to decied if its worth it or not. i love fl and will cont to play there i do hope in the end that the person gets the money owed to them if not maybe theres more to it then we know. rock on fl kathy

Ha! You really think fortune lounge cares about you? I hate to burst your bubble, but they don't. They care about your money. And if you have been playing there for 6 years, you are obviously down. Maybe, just maybe, that is why they are so nice to you. Why don't you go over to Virtual and give them a try? I bet they would be the nicest people in the world to you, if you constantly dumped money to them for 6 years.

 

[kauphy]

Good. Remind us if anything ever happens and you don't get paid. We want to remember to say - "You are full of it. Nothing like that ever happened to us. So we don't care if you don't get paid. How can we? We can never know the full story." Even though the full story is pretty well laid out in the Ts&Cs.

If I sound a bit catty it's because I was here for the wars in the early days. Oh it was grand. Casinos were giving away money. Can you imagine wagering requirements of 3 times bonus or 5 times bonus? It was amazing. Advantage players were everywhere.

There were more watchdogs too. Spearmaster, Joe Plumber, Booth at Got2Bet. Spearmaster was awesome in keeping the lid on the Microgamings. Jetset and Dom were there. Original Mary was a force by herself. Julie Sidwell at Gambling Grumbles was great. Michael Shackleford took down Casino Domain by himself and almost got himself sued in the process - well threatened anyway. But advantage players forced down fairness as well. They banded together and were extremely active. If you want, I can link some of those old threads and you can see for yourself.

And thats what you guys have to do. It doesn't matter who plays with a bonus and who doesn't. It doesn't matter if it is you or another player that doesn't get paid. You can't leave it all up to one watchdog. Stand behind your players and if one doesn't get paid - then all of you pitch a bitch. Not with CM - with the casino.

It isn't that hard. A casino takes a bet. A casino pays the winner.

Or don't band together. It's over for me. I won't be playing anymore. So it isn't any skin off my nose. But it was grand... once.... Up to you. Could be again.

Stanford.

PS - The reason FL is so nice for you now, is because a bunch of us pushed back very hard when they went to carry over wager requirements. Otherwise, it wouldn't be as nice.

Ha! You really think fortune lounge cares about you? I hate to burst your bubble, but they don't. They care about your money. And if you have been playing there for 6 years, you are obviously down. Maybe, just maybe, that is why they are so nice to you. Why don't you go over to Virtual and give them a try? I bet they would be the nicest people in the world to you, if you constantly dumped money to them for 6 years.

if ur going to play then your going to lose money. and duh is,nt that what most businesses r in it for the money. and no i don,t put alot of money in to the casino i,m a very low roller but they treat me well and i don,t see why everyone has a promble with me saying that. i,m sorrie for the guy but that does.nt mean i,m going to stop playing there would you if you liked the casino that was being talked about? and you did,nt burst anything so sorrie to disppoint you i,m a grown up and do not have my eyes closed to why casinos or any other businesses likes you anyone would if you gave them money. and no thank you to virtual.

p.s i take it you don,t gamble or give ur money to anyone right?

 

[gmblpdam]

if ur going to play then your going to lose money. and duh is,nt that what most businesses r in it for the money. and no i don,t put alot of money in to the casino i,m a very low roller but they treat me well and i don,t see why everyone has a promble with me saying that. i,m sorrie for the guy but that does.nt mean i,m going to stop playing there would you if you liked the casino that was being talked about? and you did,nt burst anything so sorrie to disppoint you i,m a grown up and do not have my eyes closed to why casinos or any other businesses likes you anyone would if you gave them money. and no thank you to virtual.

p.s i take it you don,t gamble or give ur money to anyone right?

No I take the money.

English classes.

 

[rampaco3]

Casinomeister and everyone. I say again. The casino never mentioned myltiple accounts. I don't have multiple accounts, no one used my computer this is all a complete lie invented by the Casino and Ecogra afterwards.


When I say after i mean: The casino sent two emails stating that the reason for the no pay is the game pattern, the way I played the Tri card poker they didn't like.

My intention was not even to take advantage of their bonuses, I played 200 a hand which was the max hand allowed all the way throughout the wagering and not just to build some balance and grind the bonus.

If I were a bonus chaser I would reduce the bet after I hit it big, this was not the case, I continued to play 200 a hand and could end even winnings more than 20,000 if I had luck with the straight flush and three of a kind.

I play like that in my online session and land casinos session, playing big.

I found out this is the only way for me to cashout otherwise I go bust and lose all the money.

The multiple accounts excuse came out of the blue from Ecogra.

They sent an email regarding identifer....

The casino didn't mentioned the Tri card pattern of play but accused me for having muyltiple accounts, Ecogra accepted their stance.

I know they haven't checked because I know the truth, there are no multiple accounts involved here.


Sending me two emails stating the reason is the unacceptible terms, saying if you play so and so it is bonus abuse but not limited to the so and so and we decided not to pay, then telling Ecogra the guy has multiple account is a big lie.

Reading the threads I can say that the casino is smart because he can hide the reasons for his stance claiming it is from security reason.

It is very easy to accuse someone he has multiple account and go home without your winnings.

If I had multiple accounts, am I stupid to win so much ? why not to win only 1000-2000 not to raise red flags, and as I told you I could have won double the amount if I had more luck playing 200 a hand each bet till the end

 

[Casinomeister]

Another case of player fraud I'm afraid - gee, I didn't see that coming

And for those of you who are so damn quick at jumping my shit, thanks for the support guys....NOT.

 

[summer59]

what kind of fraud was the case here?

 

[lojo]

What are some of these jokers thinking? Maybe new posters should have to read the rogue player section before posting a complaint and certainly before pitching a bitch.

 

[Casinomeister]

what kind of fraud was the case here?

He is connected to another player.

The thing is, it happens a lot. And I guess it's worth a shot to post a complaint like this in public hoping that the casino would cave in to blackmail - which this is.

I just wish that when fraudsters get caught, they would move on and do something else instead of wasting my time. I have plenty of real PABs to take care of; real players who have valid gripes.

The PABs are backed up since 28 September at the moment, and I need to focus on those and not this.

 

[Casinomeister]

What are some of these jokers thinking? Maybe new posters should have to read the rogue player section before posting a complaint and certainly before pitching a bitch.

A while back, I closed the complaints section down for newbie posters. They weren't allowed to start new threads. Whoa, you should have heard the uproar.

So it's open for everyone...it's really a shame how this section of the forum is abused. But what the hell...it gives me something to bitch about too

 

[Stanford]

Kudos

The PABs are backed up since 28 September at the moment, and I need to focus on those and not this.

I am sure someone jumped you but I don't recall who that was. I tend to ignore that sort of thing. I think my very first post was predicated on the player not being a fraudster. Fraud violates rule number 2.

I am glad you don't list Fortune Lounge. Kudos for that. I think the related problem is still there. Those bonus terms are awful. Allowing lookbacks to see how a person played his hand after accepting the wager and then not paying the winnings just isn't right.

So... I expect you backlog to continue to grow. At least by not listing them, it won't grow as much.

Anyway, good luck from the bleachers. Being from the US, I doubt I will venture into online casinos in the future. But I did once. Thanks for keeping us safe.

imho,
Stanford

 

[gmblpdam]

I still stand by what I said about you not being very nice to people who accept bonuses. However, it is clear that we were (myself included) a little early to jump to gun here. For that I apologize. I do still see a trend being set as it being acceptable not to pay advantage players. I agree with Stanford that a bet played, should be a bet paid.

However, this case was clearly different and I'm glad that it was sorted out. Nice work on rapping this up so quickly.