Responsible gambling and ComeOn

[petr1]

I no longer think that ComeOn takes responsible gambling seriously. This is pretty much the last nail in the coffin (IMO), thus I'm not going to play there anymore.

Reversing withdrawals means 99% of the times losing the whole withdrawal, at least for me. To avoid this, I've usually closed my account for few days, so the payment gets processed. Few months ago, this wasn't a problem on ComeOn. I could just go to my profile settings and close my account by myself.

However, now they have changed this. You can no longer close your account without support's help. There are only 2 options available to control your gambling. You can set a deposit limit and lose limit. Neither of the options help you to avoid reversing withdrawals. (Lose limit is calculated by total loss. For example, you set a lose limit of 20€, deposit 20€ and start gambling. You win 1000€, your total balance is 1020€. You can still lose 1020€ before the limit kicks in.)

I also asked support, if I could disable the option to reverse withdrawals. I was not surprised when they told that it was "technically impossible."

This is a problem because support isn't online at all times. English/finnish support is online from 12:00 to 22:00, their email support only from 11:00 to 20:00. Also, live chat is quite often offline, even though it should be online. Email respond time is quite slow, at worst it can take 24-48 hours.

When I asked them, why would they reduce the options to control your gambling, they said that people often close their account for silly reasons. That's why they decided that player should contact support before closing account.

This isn't the only problem with ComeOn's "responsible gambling". They allow you to deposit with credit and later send an invoice for you.

What do you think?

 

[dionysus]

Sounds reasonable. If you email support to close you account, you also have a history to go back on. You can request a set time to lock it, for example for 6 months. If players could willy-nilly open and close their accts, there's no real preventative measure.

If the day or 2 is too long for an email response, delete the casino from your computer. Since you know the hours live chat operates, it shouldn't be that hard to go during those hours if it's a real issue. If it's truly a matter of responsible and problem gambling, try Gamblock or going when you know support is there.

 

[petr1]

Sounds reasonable. If you email support to close you account, you also have a history to go back on. You can request a set time to lock it, for example for 6 months. If players could willy-nilly open and close their accts, there's no real preventative measure.

If the day or 2 is too long for an email response, delete the casino from your computer. Since you know the hours live chat operates, it shouldn't be that hard to go during those hours if it's a real issue. If it's truly a matter of responsible and problem gambling, try Gamblock or going when you know support is there.

This thread isn't about me but ComeOn's responsible gambling in general. It doesn't sound reasonable when thinking about problem gamblers. Problem gambling doesn't look the time or wait for support.

Players had a choice to close account without option to re-open before the time period.

 

[dionysus]

But the casino hasn't refused to close your acct upon request have they? It's just a matter of emailing or talking to live chat as I understand it from your post.

 

[petr1]

But the casino hasn't refused to close your acct upon request have they? It's just a matter of emailing or talking to live chat as I understand it from your post.

As I said in my previous post. This isn't about me but ComeOn and resposible gambling.

 

[dionysus]

Well, I'd think if a casino closes a player's account when asked, that's fairly responsible.

 

[petr1]

Well, I'd think if a casino closes a player's account when asked, that's fairly responsible.

Maybe, a lot of casinos have only this option. But why would they reduce the player controls to that?

 

[dionysus]

Couldn't tell ya, sorry. Maybe it's easier for record-keeping for their data base, or having transcripts (emails and live chat) explaining the nature of the closure, so they CAN effectively root out problem gambling vs say 'time-outs'. I don't know.

 

[Nifty29]

As I said in my previous post. This isn't about me but ComeOn and resposible gambling.

I rather think it is about both petr.

You can't tell nor expect others not to comment on ALL of your post and only address the casino side of things. If it weren't for your own personal inability to control the urge to reverse, this thread wouldn't exist.

The only thing the operator has done is change the process of account closure. Big deal. It might mean an extra 5 minutes. Actually, in some respects it's better, as they have an opportunity to review your account and decide whether you might have a gambling problem and close your account permanently....which absolutely IS responsible. Having a "close" and "reopen" button for your account is practically useless as a compulsive gambling intervention tool in about the same way as changing your own banking password.

What comeon has done is make your personal self-control method a little more cumbersome,whilst at the same time strengthening their responsible gambling processes.

Honestly, if the only way you can avoid reversing is to close your account, then.....well I'm not going any further than that.

 

[Balthazar]

You found an easy way to avoid the reverse withdrawal waiting period and this isn't supposed to happen. They simply patched the hole.

Never forget that the thing is there for a reason: for you to reverse it and lose.

 

[mrmark21]

Not the only problem? They don't even have a proper Self Exclusion policy. I spoke to an agent who told me that once you permanently Self Exclude you can reopen your account at ANY TIME as long as you (get this)... Provide documentation, seriously? Come on!

Take it as a warning sign and move to a different better casino that actually appreciates their customers. Speak with your money. With all the casinos on the accredited list your bound to find a casino that suits your needs

 

[Nifty29]

You found an easy way to avoid the reverse withdrawal waiting period and this isn't supposed to happen. They simply patched the hole.

Never forget that the thing is there for a reason: for you to reverse it and lose.

It is A reason. It is not THE reason.

In fact, an important reason is to reduce transaction costs for the operator. It costs nothing if the player reverses to play, but if they cannot reverse and want to play some more, they have to deposit using another method which means costs for the operator.

It's also important to note that not all players lose....which I thought would have been obvious.

The knife cuts both ways here.

 

[Balthazar]

It is A reason. It is not THE reason.

In fact, an important reason is to reduce transaction costs for the operator. It costs nothing if the player reverses to play, but if they cannot reverse and want to play some more, they have to deposit using another method which means costs for the operator.

It's also important to note that not all players lose..

No, but then they reverse it again until there's nothing left. When you're in the reversal circle, it doesn't really matter how much you win since you keep playing until you lose.

Transaction fees for a casino are nothing compared to paying all their cashouts.

 

[Nifty29]

No, but then they reverse it again until there's nothing left. When you're in the reversal circle, it doesn't really matter how much you win since you keep playing until you lose.

Transaction fees for a casino are nothing compared to paying all their cashouts.

Sorry, but ask Ben or Igor about whether transaction costs are "nothing" compared to anything. Money movement is a major cost for all OCs. I think you need to become better informed in that regard before you make statements such as you did.

Not everyone keeps reversing until they lose. I'm surprised you don't know that.

 

[maphesto]

Nifty is right, not all players lose when they reverse their withdrawals. And transaction cost isn't a small cost. Does the casino pay a lot for NetEller transactions btw? Do the casinos let NetEller customers have the same reversal periods? Reversal periods is a real shame for the industry.

I checked ComeOn's page and this is said about responsible gambling:

We offer several ways to help you control your gaming with ComeOn. You can set Deposit Limits on your play or exclude yourself from the site completely for a set period of time.

If you would like to take a break from Gaming you can choose to take 1 week off . This will give you enough time to cool off and get back in control of your game. You also have the option to exclude yourself for a period of 6 months.

So what's the problem?

 

[onkel]

You found an easy way to avoid the reverse withdrawal waiting period and this isn't supposed to happen. They simply patched the hole.

Never forget that the thing is there for a reason: for you to reverse it and lose.

Spot on.

For those saying that ComeOn removed the ability for player's to temporarily close their account themselves for any other reason than increasing reversed withdrawals, are kidding themselves. Pending withdrawals, which lead to reversed withdrawals, are what brings in the cheddar for online casinos.

A friend of mine who works for an online casino showed me some numbers, and they are staggering! Not saying that the player won't deposit their winnings to the same casino again once they've received their withdrawal, but a reversed withdrawal guarantees that the money stays in that particular casino.

 

[homerbert]

to OP, why not found another casino which will satisfy you?
about reverse and costs for operators for deposits, really, why as a player i should care about it? They does not care if i upload money to skrill by visa i pay fee. They does not care that i deposit my own money, so why the hell i should care about their fees? I am not rude, just do not understand such opinion, reverse withdrawal helps casino to reduce fees. And what? That means that this casino is bad, and this can not be used as an needed thing for casino.
P.S. btw, 90% russian casinos even not remove money from your account when you request withdrawal

 

[Nifty29]

Spot on.

For those saying that ComeOn removed the ability for player's to temporarily close their account themselves for any other reason than increasing reversed withdrawals, are kidding themselves. Pending withdrawals, which lead to reversed withdrawals, are what brings in the cheddar for online casinos.

A friend of mine who works for an online casino showed me some numbers, and they are staggering! Not saying that the player won't deposit their winnings to the same casino again once they've received their withdrawal, but a reversed withdrawal guarantees that the money stays in that particular casino.

Sorry, but it NOT the only reason.

No doubt it CAN be used as a tool to increase revenue. It is not always the case. It doesn't necessarily affect the player's ability to lose....just makes it more likely that they will lose to THAT casino. The most likely outcome is that they will get their cashout and spend (and probably lose) most of it elsewhere. IMO, it's not much different to having a nice win at a land based casino and them offering you a nice suite and comp food and drinks for the night/weekend i.e. it is to keep you THERE and hopefully recoup some of their money...it's not to say thanks for cashing out lol.

My personal view is that if one cannot stop themselves reversing and losing their winnings they shouldn't be gambling in the first place, as they clearly have a self-control issue which should NOT be the sole responsibility of anyone else but themselves.

 

[Azzurri]

I couldn't find any evidence to suggest comeon offer credit to players also. I apologise if I missed it, but on inspection I have to assume this is an unwarranted attempt to slander the casino further in regards to the op's 'responsible gambling' rant.

 

[onkel]

Sorry, but it NOT the only reason.

No doubt it CAN be used as a tool to increase revenue. It is not always the case. It doesn't necessarily affect the player's ability to lose....just makes it more likely that they will lose to THAT casino. The most likely outcome is that they will get their cashout and spend (and probably lose) most of it elsewhere. IMO, it's not much different to having a nice win at a land based casino and them offering you a nice suite and comp food and drinks for the night/weekend i.e. it is to keep you THERE and hopefully recoup some of their money...it's not to say thanks for cashing out lol.

My personal view is that if one cannot stop themselves reversing and losing their winnings they shouldn't be gambling in the first place, as they clearly have a self-control issue which should NOT be the sole responsibility of anyone else but themselves.

All I'm saying is that the key factor here is to increase revenue and reduce processing costs. Sure, it is POSSIBLE that they've removed it for some other reason, but I'd be very surprised if it was.

I didn't say the casino are doing anything wrong here, IMO they aren't (I would've done this too if I ran an online casino). I also agree that players shouldn't keep playing if they can't stay away from the reversal button.

 

[Balthazar]

IMO, it's not much different to having a nice win at a land based casino and them offering you a nice suite and comp food and drinks for the night/weekend i.e. it is to keep you THERE and hopefully recoup some of their money...it's not to say thanks for cashing out lol.

Except that land based casinos can't force you to stay if you want to go home with your money right now. For your analogy to work, it would be like a casino offering your winnings in casino vouchers and telling you that you can cash them in real money only in 48 hours (72hrs on weekends). That'd be pretty evil, wouldn't it?

There are casinos out there that flush your money immediatly so I'd suggest people that are prone to reverse to play there instead.

 

[dunover]

Come on! can't be expected to nanny everybody. I played there and the w/d's are very quick anyway, the reversal time is hours as I remember it. The OP should ask for a flush, if not available surely it isn't hard to buy a book for a few quid to take their mind off of reversing for a short period?? I don't like excessive pending periods myself, and avoid sites with anything over 24 hours. Not because I'll cave in, but because it simply delays me getting my paws on the nice notes from the ATM or buying something.
And yes, cashing out 100, reversing 30 say is cheaper for the casino than paying you 100 and then you make another 30 deposit. Sites that have super-quick w/d's do so out of service to the player and often absorb the costs of doing so.
The OP should make his w/d and then unplug his modem or something.

 

[petr1]

I rather think it is about both petr.

You can't tell nor expect others not to comment on ALL of your post and only address the casino side of things. If it weren't for your own personal inability to control the urge to reverse, this thread wouldn't exist.

The only thing the operator has done is change the process of account closure. Big deal. It might mean an extra 5 minutes. Actually, in some respects it's better, as they have an opportunity to review your account and decide whether you might have a gambling problem and close your account permanently....which absolutely IS responsible. Having a "close" and "reopen" button for your account is practically useless as a compulsive gambling intervention tool in about the same way as changing your own banking password.

What comeon has done is make your personal self-control method a little more cumbersome,whilst at the same time strengthening their responsible gambling processes.

Honestly, if the only way you can avoid reversing is to close your account, then.....well I'm not going any further than that.

No. They had an option to close account permanently and close until a specific time period without option to re-open. And as I said, it's not about 5 minutes, it can take hours (or days on weekends) before support is available.

Sure, you can say "you shouldn't play if you have a gambling problem". Well, that's why it's called a problem. And that's why there should be ways to control your gambling. ComeOn had good tools for that.. but not anymore.

If player has to wait for a long time to close their account.. I don't see how it "strengthens" responsible gambling.

 

[petr1]

I couldn't find any evidence to suggest comeon offer credit to players also. I apologise if I missed it, but on inspection I have to assume this is an unwarranted attempt to slander the casino further in regards to the op's 'responsible gambling' rant.

They do. At least for Finnish residents (and probably for Swedish too). There's "PugglePay" on the bottom of this list:

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What is PugglePay? Outdated URL (Invalid)

"Responsible credit checks and purchases"
"Delivery and invoice"

 

[alexking12k]

Sounds reasonable. If you email support to close you account, you also have a history to go back on. You can request a set time to lock it, for example for 6 months. If players could willy-nilly open and close their accts, there's no real preventative measure.

If the day or 2 is too long for an email response, delete the casino from your computer. Since you know the hours live chat operates, it shouldn't be that hard to go during those hours if it's a real issue. If it's truly a matter of responsible and problem gambling, try Gamblock or going when you know support is there.

I was going to say Gamblock as well; however, the OP should keep in mind that once Gamblock is installed on his computer there is no uninstalling it. It's a serious program, which blocks ANY AND ALL website with ANYTHING gambling related on them (for example, a simple sports scores site which advertises online sportsbooks) so it can be a bit of a hassle to live with it. I feel that to avoid gambling related problems, one should just quit and never play again; therefore, Gamblock is the best solution.