Pokerstars 32k confiscation

[newhizzle]

i am new to this site but maybe this is something you could help me with, i have posted a very long and detailed account on 2+2 and will link it here:

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thanks

 

[rainmaker]

yes, we love links to other forums here



This is one reply from the other forum: "God damn you're a multiaccounting scumbag. Maybe this is a 32k lesson not to keep the company of cheaters"


You must be joking.

 

[baldidiot]

Holy cr@p that's a long post.

Anyone fancy doing bullet points?

 

[Nifty29]

SUFFER!!!!

God I love it when fraudsters like you and your cheat ass buddies get OWNED!!!

I hope you all lose everything and that a huge bird buzzes over your head and covers you in exactly what you have served us up in that post.

I'm also amazed you can type that much with only one hand free.

 

[Repro]

i am new to this site but maybe this is something you could help me with, i have posted a very long and detailed account on 2+2 and will link it here:

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thanks

Wow... You tried to cheat the hell out of Pokerstars and dare to post a link here ?

Idiot

 

[JWhit1986]

Did any of you actually read his post? He is a well known former high stakes player. Using different accounts when being backed has been common in high stakes for years. He didn't try to "cheat the hell out of Pokerstars" and I don't even understand how you could think multi-accounting at high stakes games is possibly cheating Stars. Obviously you aren't a pokerplayer. This is the first I've heard of this but it does seem wrong that Stars warned the other player, player accepted warning, then a year later $32k was seized for the offense that a warning had been given on before.

PokerStars integrity has been nosediving over the past year. I used to think I'd trust Stars more than a bank with my money but that's before Lee Jones left and before the security dept radically changed.

 

[rainmaker]

Did any of you actually read his post? He is a well known former high stakes player. Using different accounts when being backed has been common in high stakes for years. He didn't try to "cheat the hell out of Pokerstars" and I don't even understand how you could think multi-accounting at high stakes games is possibly cheating Stars. Obviously you aren't a pokerplayer. This is the first I've heard of this but it does seem wrong that Stars warned the other player, player accepted warning, then a year later $32k was seized for the offense that a warning had been given on before.

PokerStars integrity has been nosediving over the past year. I used to think I'd trust Stars more than a bank with my money but that's before Lee Jones left and before the security dept radically changed.

Yes, he might be Phil Ivey for all I know, but to multi-post the same complain on different forums is not very high stakeISH and certainly not a good way of solving a problem.

It often indicates that the complainer is using the good reputation of forums to blacken or threaten a casino to a solution in the favor of the player.

 

[3mptyseat]

Did any of you actually read his post? He is a well known former high stakes player. Using different accounts when being backed has been common in high stakes for years. He didn't try to "cheat the hell out of Pokerstars" and I don't even understand how you could think multi-accounting at high stakes games is possibly cheating Stars. Obviously you aren't a pokerplayer. This is the first I've heard of this but it does seem wrong that Stars warned the other player, player accepted warning, then a year later $32k was seized for the offense that a warning had been given on before.

PokerStars integrity has been nosediving over the past year. I used to think I'd trust Stars more than a bank with my money but that's before Lee Jones left and before the security dept radically changed.

As a player at low and medium stakes, I guess my first question is, "When did nosebleeders get to play by different rules." My next q would be, "When did Mr. Jones go soft, not that he is around stars to rule on this case...But, there is no way the last year of crackdowns on cheating, collusion, and multiaccounting could be seen as a 'security team' nosedive..." And a as pstars player that has served a suspension for multiaccounting at the hands of Mr. Jones (TWO cash game names; served 6 month suspension on second apprehension, learned my lesson (2007), never played in same game or tourney or cheated in anyway, except multiaccounting was and is cheating), I know for a fact that he would not be paying out this fool, he would be looking for a charity... Lee Jones is an active member at 2 + 2... Why dont we just ask him? LOL, u go ahead, I think I will not waste his time...

 

[3mptyseat]

Wait, can I start double posting some of my favorite comments by 2 + 2er's from OP's thread:

Re: pokerstars stole 32k from my friend(very long and very detailed)
I also have a problem where I rob banks for fun and don't even use a mask so they know its me. I got probation twice but the third time they sent me to jail, wtf? My getaway driver even got punished, its not his fault I like to rob banks.

"In april of last year, I began trying to run up small money on a different account, “4u2mad”, I ended up going on a very sick run and turned nearly nothing into about 300k at the highpoint, I was very blatant with my use of this account, as far as signing on and off from the same ip, transfers, etc. never really did much to try to hide what I was doing, never constantly switched accounts, and most of the highstakes limit world knew exactly who they were playing with, when people denied me action on that account, I didn't try to play them on another one, I just stopped trying to play them"

Dude, I play these games every day (including a decent number of hands against 4u2mad iirc [edit: after checking, not too many hands, some at 50/100, don't think I played 200 with it] when that account was going), read all the LHE forums and talk with other regs from time to time, and I have no idea who is behind these accounts, so please gtfo with this "knew exactly who they were playing with". I have heard many rumors of the guys that run in your crew sharing accounts, sad to see it is true.

Unreal because this is you, right?

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and the big one...

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Also on the program is poker pro --------------, discussing his recent 1.5 million dollar win at the 2006 World Poker Tour Borgata Open. Beating several well know poker pros along the way including David Sklansky, who finished third. ---- became one of the youngest players to win a World Poker Tour Championship at age 21. He enjoys playing both tournaments and cash games. Before his big win at the Borgata, ---- primarily made his living off Limit poker. To hear both interviews click the link below.

 

[rainmaker]

Wait, can I start double posting some of my favorite comments by 2 + 2er's from OP's thread:

Unreal

Funny comments. My favorite was "I stopped reading after you started to talk about your third account"

 

[Nifty29]

Did any of you actually read his post? He is a well known former high stakes player. Using different accounts when being backed has been common in high stakes for years. He didn't try to "cheat the hell out of Pokerstars" and I don't even understand how you could think multi-accounting at high stakes games is possibly cheating Stars. Obviously you aren't a pokerplayer. This is the first I've heard of this but it does seem wrong that Stars warned the other player, player accepted warning, then a year later $32k was seized for the offense that a warning had been given on before.

PokerStars integrity has been nosediving over the past year. I used to think I'd trust Stars more than a bank with my money but that's before Lee Jones left and before the security dept radically changed.

OK Einstein.

WHY is this multiaccounting stuff AGAINST THE RULES of every poker room and casino?

Sounds like you might be into this kind of behaviour yourself.

 

[3mptyseat]

Funny comments. My favorite was "I stopped reading after you started to talk about your third account"

U think thats funny, wait til u see this pm I sent ya!

 

[Casinomeister]

i am new to this site but maybe this is something you could help me with, i have posted a very long and detailed account on 2+2 and will link it here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

thanks

I shouldn't have to mention this, but to simply state "I have a problem - read this", point us to another message board and it's a freaking novel of a post - that's considered bad forum etiquette. In other words, you don't respect this forum enough to present your problem in a concise to-the-point manner. I stopped reading it after the second paragraph because I can't can't be bothered with players who don't have the courtesy of presenting an issue in 400 words or less.

If you're a fraudster, you are posting in the wrong forum. You will be owned here.

 

[JWhit1986]

As a player at low and medium stakes, I guess my first question is, "When did nosebleeders get to play by different rules." My next q would be, "When did Mr. Jones go soft, not that he is around stars to rule on this case...But, there is no way the last year of crackdowns on cheating, collusion, and multiaccounting could be seen as a 'security team' nosedive..." And a as pstars player that has served a suspension for multiaccounting at the hands of Mr. Jones (TWO cash game names; served 6 month suspension on second apprehension, learned my lesson (2007), never played in same game or tourney or cheated in anyway, except multiaccounting was and is cheating), I know for a fact that he would not be paying out this fool, he would be looking for a charity... Lee Jones is an active member at 2 + 2... Why dont we just ask him? LOL, u go ahead, I think I will not waste his time...

Nosebleed has always played by different rules. Also at low stakes staking deals are very rare.

No collusion occurred or was alleged. Rules were broken and punishment doled out. Then further punishment doled out a year later without any further offense. That is wrong.

Security has nosedived with their policies on transfers changing almost daily and very dependent on the stakes you play. Communication which Stars has always been known for has taken a hit also. And I'm not saying Lee Jones would have handled this one differently, I'm just saying IMO Stars and their legendary integrity has been going downhill ever since he left.

 

[JWhit1986]

I shouldn't have to mention this, but to simply state "I have a problem - read this", point us to another message board and it's a freaking novel of a post - that's considered bad forum etiquette. In other words, you don't respect this forum enough to present your problem in a concise to-the-point manner. I stopped reading it after the second paragraph because I can't can't be bothered with players who don't have the courtesy of presenting an issue in 400 words or less.

If you're a fraudster, you are posting in the wrong forum. You will be owned here.

LOL you mean you actually didn't read the longest post in 2+2's history? BTW, I 100% agree that it's awful etiquette to go to another forum and post a link.

 

[JWhit1986]

OK Einstein.

WHY is this multiaccounting stuff AGAINST THE RULES of every poker room and casino?

Sounds like you might be into this kind of behaviour yourself.

Oops one more post cuz I missed this. Why are you accusing me of this behavior just because I don't agree with you?

And do you even know what the definition of multiaccounting is? It's playing with multiple accounts in the same tournament or cash game which isn't an issue here.

Playing under other people's accounts is against the rules even if you aren't multiaccounting and in this case it looks like Stars dealt with the issue, players accepted the penalty (lifetime ban for one and warning for other) and then further penalized the guy a year later. That's not right and that's not fair and I don't see how anyone can argue differently. If Stars had seized however much money upfront I'd say it was their right but you don't punish someone twice for the same offense especially a year later.

 

[Casinomeister]

5.2. PERSONAL USE. The Service is intended solely for the User's personal use. The User is only allowed to wager for his/her personal entertainment. Under no circumstances shall a User be permitted to use his/her "real money account" with PokerStars for any purpose other than for using the Service. The User must provide full and truthful information in respect of all details and information provided by the User to PokerStars and the User is obligated to update such details in the event of any change thereto. A User may only have one account with PokerStars and shall only use the Service using such single account. Furthermore a User shall not permit another person to use the Service via his account.

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Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Unless this player was given explicit permission in writing to open more than one account, I don't see what the issue is.

BTW - I think the T&Cs were shorter than this guy's complaint

 

[JWhit1986]

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Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Unless this player was given explicit permission in writing to open more than one account, I don't see what the issue is.

BTW - I think the T&Cs were shorter than this guy's complaint

If you read all 40,000 words of the complaint you'll see they issued a warning to the guy and made him acknowledge the terms and promise not to break them in the future. Then a year later they closed the account and seized the money without any further breaking of the rules. Or if there was further rule breaking it hasn't come out in the 2+2 thread yet. Assuming there was no further terms violation I think it's pretty unfair for a further penalty after letting the guy play for a year with a warning.

 

[Nifty29]

If you read all 40,000 words of the complaint you'll see they issued a warning to the guy and made him acknowledge the terms and promise not to break them in the future. Then a year later they closed the account and seized the money without any further breaking of the rules. Or if there was further rule breaking it hasn't come out in the 2+2 thread yet. Assuming there was no further terms violation I think it's pretty unfair for a further penalty after letting the guy play for a year with a warning.

I remember reading in the latter part ( 2 Newhizzle 4:1-9 ) that they detected recently that one of the other accounts he used had suddenly changed their playing habits to be almost identical to Newhizzle.....hence the recent ban.

At worst, stars has done something deceptive by allowing it to go on before stopping it.

Newhizzle was using all these accounts to DECEIVE other players.

I'd call it even, wouldn't you?

 

[JWhit1986]

I remember reading in the latter part ( 2 Newhizzle 4:1-9 ) that they detected recently that one of the other accounts he used had suddenly changed their playing habits to be almost identical to Newhizzle.....hence the recent ban.

At worst, stars has done something deceptive by allowing it to go on before stopping it.

Newhizzle was using all these accounts to DECEIVE other players.

I'd call it even, wouldn't you?

My understanding was at the time the original offenses occurred they detected the change in playing habits not recently. I could be wrong, I mean it was a lot to read. IF there was a recent offense then yes Stars was totally right. But if nothing happened since the original punishments came down then I think they were wrong.

Also, I do believe that the intent wasn't to deceive but was for accounting purposes with the different staking agreements. I don't know any of these guys personally but I've heard of many similar arrangements.

One final note, not to get off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the matter at hand but honestly I don't have a problem with someone concealing their identity from other players by using other accounts. Yes it's against the rules but as long as the poker sites allow HUD's (heads up displays) using PokerTracker stats I think it's justified. I feel HUD's and PokerTracker are cheating, the average player has no idea such things exist and every single time I've seen a player find out that HUD's are used against them they feel like they've been cheated. PokerTracker and HUD's are very bad for the game in the long run and if I played high stakes (I don't anymore) I would do what I had to to conceal my identity from players that use them. OK, rant over...it's just HUD's really get me going!

 

[Repro]

Did any of you actually read his post? He is a well known former high stakes player. Using different accounts when being backed has been common in high stakes for years. He didn't try to "cheat the hell out of Pokerstars" and I don't even understand how you could think multi-accounting at high stakes games is possibly cheating Stars. Obviously you aren't a pokerplayer. This is the first I've heard of this but it does seem wrong that Stars warned the other player, player accepted warning, then a year later $32k was seized for the offense that a warning had been given on before.

PokerStars integrity has been nosediving over the past year. I used to think I'd trust Stars more than a bank with my money but that's before Lee Jones left and before the security dept radically changed.

The OP is a fraudster and nothing less. He even admits it.

I am, and have been, a pokerplayer for about 8 years now. I don't play professional, but i do play tournaments (live and online) with buyins up to $1000. You pay a price for finding out other players behaviour. That takes a lot of time and money. Once you figured that out you can actually try to make money out of your buyins. IF someone is illegaly "masking" himself in those tournament - or cashgame, makes no difference - it just clear fraud. In the rules of every pokerroom it's clearly forbidden, so there is no excuse for doing this.

If i were Pokerstars i would also given him a lifetime ban. Maybe i'd even send a note to other pokerrooms.

FYI: In the old Wild West they used to shoot cheating pokerplayers.

/rant

 

[JWhit1986]

The OP is a fraudster and nothing less. He even admits it.

I am, and have been, a pokerplayer for about 8 years now. I don't play professional, but i do play tournaments (live and online) with buyins up to $1000. You pay a price for finding out other players behaviour. That takes a lot of time and money. Once you figured that out you can actually try to make money out of your buyins. IF someone is illegaly "masking" himself in those tournament - or cashgame, makes no difference - it just clear fraud. In the rules of every pokerroom it's clearly forbidden, so there is no excuse for doing this.

If i were Pokerstars i would also given him a lifetime ban. Maybe i'd even send a note to other pokerrooms.

FYI: In the old Wild West they used to shoot cheating pokerplayers.

/rant

Missing the point again. PokerStars handed out penalties a year ago then a year later punished them again for THE SAME OFFENSE! Unless they broke rules again, and again there has been no allegation of that, then that's just bullshit.

 

[Nifty29]

I think you will find something happened RECENTLY but Freddy Fraudster has denied it. It's how I understood it anyway.

 

[JWhit1986]

I think you will find something happened RECENTLY but Freddy Fraudster has denied it. It's how I understood it anyway.

If that's the case then Stars is in the right. I don't feel like wading thru that long thread again, maybe I missed it or maybe it was posted later because I didn't get the impression reading it the first time that anything had happened recently.

 

[newhizzle]

I shouldn't have to mention this, but to simply state "I have a problem - read this", point us to another message board and it's a freaking novel of a post - that's considered bad forum etiquette. In other words, you don't respect this forum enough to present your problem in a concise to-the-point manner. I stopped reading it after the second paragraph because I can't can't be bothered with players who don't have the courtesy of presenting an issue in 400 words or less.

If you're a fraudster, you are posting in the wrong forum. You will be owned here.

hello,

as i said i am new to this forum and i apologize if i used bad forum etiquette in linking a post to another forum, i was not aware of this forum etiquette

my post was long and detailed because i did not want to leave anything out or have people feel that i am hiding anything, because i am not

i will explain the issue here briefly for you, i was banned for account sharing, i was warned before and i feel that decision is fair, that is not at all what this is about, at the time i was banned, the accounts i had used were given warnings, they agreed to the terms of service and were led to believe that their money would be safe at pokerstars if they did not violate the terms of service again

6 months later, out of nowhere, pokerstars consficated funds from one of these accounts, after he had been playing normally every day and given time to build it up, after this happened they did not respond to emails for 4 days, i contacted daniel and he forwarded emails to the right people and finaly the response that they gave me was he lied about it and i posted on 2+2 that i had played on his account

this confllcts with previous statements and decisions that they had made, and i had told them on the phone and in email before that i had played on the account, they were fully aware of this fact and this is the reason i was banned in the first place

he was allowed to play on the site, given time to build up money and they seized it without warning, and when he had not violated any terms of service after recieving his warning

i hope this is a better way to present things to you, and i am sorry if i was not aware that posting a link was inproper etiqutte, if you want more details, they are in the link, it is long because i did not want to leave anything out or let people believe i may be hiding something or that there are holes in my story