Play 'n go - Different RTP at different sites!

[Jono777]

You're right, I don't know anything. I'll leave you to it. You clearly know far more about this whole thing than I ever will

C'mon now Trance, you've been a member here a good while now. Head-brick-wall?? lol.

Can understand these frustrations and variable RTP is a PITA for players new and experienced alike, however have to admit, I was happily plugging along on numerous slots and knew nothing about RTP as far back as 2003, not until I joined CM a good 10 years later did I start to learn a thing or two.

Whilst we're here too, no worries about quoting my 3 year old post earlier, nobody's perfect

Oh yes, also please, did you ever hear back about my fave slot of ALL time? (Cleopatra, version 1, the fast spinning one, no "Big Win" nonsense etc?)

 

[CompleteFailure]

I have both, but you only see it from one side (understandably) whereas I see it from both. I know the impact too much information can have on people (it can make it worse btw) but I also understand that the more open and fair we are, the better.

Which is why I've repeatedly said I believe that RTP should be clearly shown on the loading screen like it has to be on FOBT games in the UK.

Yep, I see it from one side - fairness. I'm not even for government regulation. That doesn't mean that people in the market and industry and private regulatory agencies can't expose deceptive practices as is being done on this forum.
Take the affiliate yesnocasino.com for example. He explains clearly to inexperienced players which softwares to avoid.

 

[trancemonkey]

C'mon now Trance, you've been a member here a good while now. Head-brick-wall?? lol.

Can understand these frustrations and variable RTP is a PITA for players new and experienced alike, however have to admit, I was happily plugging along on numerous slots and knew nothing about RTP as far back as 2003, not until I joined CM a good 10 years later did I start to learn a thing or two.

Whilst we're here too, no worries about quoting my 3 year old post earlier, nobody's perfect

Oh yes, also please, did you ever hear back about my fave slot of ALL time? (Cleopatra, version 1, the fast spinning one, no "Big Win" nonsense etc?)

PM me about the Cleo thing - i admit i've forgotten it.

And i get his frustration, i really do - and the industry doesn't help itself sometimes, but equally there will ALWAYS be things people complain about and want to know more... but i also see far more information than most people on here do, and i know that players DO notice when RTP drops, and will stop playing games if the RTP drops too low... so it isn't like RTP can just be dropped willy-nilly and no one notices, and we just rake the rewards... it can, and does, have a negative impact on revenue sometimes. So dropping RTP is not always a solution that guarantees a game takes more money!

 

[CompleteFailure]

PM me about the Cleo thing - i admit i've forgotten it.

And i get his frustration, i really do - and the industry doesn't help itself sometimes, but equally there will ALWAYS be things people complain about and want to know more... but i also see far more information than most people on here do, and i know that players DO notice when RTP drops, and will stop playing games if the RTP drops too low... so it isn't like RTP can just be dropped willy-nilly and no one notices, and we just rake the rewards... it can, and does, have a negative impact on revenue sometimes. So dropping RTP is not always a solution that guarantees a game takes more money!

This ignores the clip-joints who are not in it for the long-haul but open shop to offer games to newbies. They drain their bankrolls by offering games that are named and packaged as slots with good reputations but have been really dramatically worsened. The providers are happy to license these deceptive versions out.
These clip-joints will operate until they run out of customers, then close up, switch names and reopen. Rinse and repeat.

 

[trancemonkey]

This ignores the clip-joints who are not in it for the long-haul but open shop to offer games to newbies. They drain their bankrolls by offering games that are named and packaged as slots with good reputations but have been really dramatically worsened. The providers are happy to license these deceptive versions out.
These clip-joints will operate until they run out of customers, then close up, switch names and reopen. Rinse and repeat.

But now you are talking about wholly unethical, probably illegal casinos - which OF COURSE should be closed down / banned / whatever, as soon as they appear. Nothing can stop the crooks being crooks, which is why sites like CM are great!

 

[goatwack]

This mano-a-mano still hangs in the balance

 

[brianmon]

RTP's have had to be displayed for games in the UK since the 2005 Gambling Act - whether they all did or not, i can't comment.
And with regards to the issue about RTP being different - i understand your frustration, but it's simply not viable to suggest that games should only ever have one RTP. And be careful what you wish for, because if you think that forcing providers to only producer one RTP variant would mean you would only have 96 or 97 percent versions, you are living in a fantasy world.

I can almost guarantee that you would see all games on around 94% if this happens.

And also, as it's a free world, if you don't like the way a slot plays at one casino, go to another one. Simple right?

But you've produced online slots between 2005 and whenever you changed to whatever is it you do now.
Did your games display the RTP anywhere at all?
If not, why not? If it had been mandatory since 2005, you must have known about it

 

[trancemonkey]

But you've produced online slots between 2005 and whenever you changed to whatever is it you do now.
Did your games display the RTP anywhere at all?
If not, why not? If it had been mandatory since 2005, you must have known about it

Yes, we always had them on the loading screen (land-based, FOBT) or in the help files.
But i can only comment on the games i've worked on. I always worked with companies based in the UK, and we used GLI or BMM to test all the games.

 

[CompleteFailure]

But now you are talking about wholly unethical, probably illegal casinos - which OF COURSE should be closed down / banned / whatever, as soon as they appear. Nothing can stop the crooks being crooks, which is why sites like CM are great!

Yet according to you there is nothing unethical about me opening up a casino and offering popular slots which look identical, are named the same, but have a dramatically reduced RTP. I can still honor payouts. No problem, I will still make money by tricking players into thinking my slots are the real ones. They are not, the fundamental change, the RTP, makes them really different slots. That's the bait and switch.
You consider these sites ethical or not? Make up your mind.

And yes, something can be done about it as we have said many times. Rename the slot if you alter the RTP or put a huge disclaimer in LAYMAN's term explaining that it is not the same slot that you heard about.

Yes, forums like this are good as a vanguard to think about how to keep the industry respectable. And the consensus on this forum is that variable RTPs are deceptive. The next step is to shame or regulate providers into stop offering them.

 

[Gaz237]

What do you think should be done for 10 different RTPs? Either different names (eg. BoTD_96%, BoTD_95%, etc.) or disclaimers for each one explaining in laymen's terms the difference (eg. "this RTP will lead to expected losses twice/three times that of the normal game.")
Wow that was so tough. You are really lacking in creativity or a complete hack.
If you mean that it's laughable, because casinos will never act ethically and regulators have no interest in making them do so, then you might have a point. Otherwise you're embarrassing yourself.

Is your user name linked to what you post?.

 

[slotter999]

I've taken this image from another forum but it's a nice visual for what those differences in RTP mean to the player. If I knew how to upload funny emojis it would definitely have a picture of a massive elephant doing something rather unpleasant to someone who thought they were playing book of dead at 96% RTP.....but weren't. The elephant would also be saying "it's in the help file....what's your problem"

 

[Harry_BKK]

Is it "Rage Week" before Halloween?

Seems like every thread has one member roiling up the crowds. Rohstein thread, this one. etc etc. Wasted my time reading the nonsense.

To @CompleteFailure

You sound like someone who regularly takes medication without reading the enclosed paper where they list side effects etc. and then you complain about them.

Here's a typical RTP chart how a game can be offered, the info is all out there. You just need to spend a minute to read it. BTW, I reviewed 1,000+ games and all that can have varying RTPs have a sentence warning players to read the help files.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I've taken this image from another forum but it's a nice visual for what those differences in RTP mean to the player. If I knew how to upload funny emojis it would definitely have a picture of a massive elephant doing something rather unpleasant to someone who thought they were playing book of dead at 96% RTP.....but weren't. The elephant would also be saying "it's in the help file....what's your problem"

View attachment 115629

These kind of calculations are totally misleading as RTPs can be adjusted in various ways. The charts are the most simple calculation as if we will always lose just $4 from $100 wagered on a 96% RTP. Today's slots have complex math models which are very flexible.

E.g. reduce the rate for the top win to occur and the rest is left unchanged. 99.999999999999% of players won't see a difference in their play as all other aspects have not been touched.

 

[Gaz237]

These kind of calculations are totally misleading as RTP's can be adjusted in various ways. The charts are the most simple calculation as if we will always lose just $4 from $100 wagered on a 96% RTP. Today's slots have complex math models which are very flexible.

E.g. reduce the rate for the top win to occur and the rest is left unchanged. 99.999999999999% of players won't see a difference in their play as all other aspects have not been touched.

Careful Harry.

A few posters on here Cant Handle The Truth.

 

[nikantw]

These kind of calculations are totally misleading as RTPs can be adjusted in various ways. The charts are the most simple calculation as if we will always lose just $4 from $100 wagered on a 96% RTP. Today's slots have complex math models which are very flexible.

E.g. reduce the rate for the top win to occur and the rest is left unchanged. 99.999999999999% of players won't see a difference in their play as all other aspects have not been touched.

That is not an example, it is the ONLY WAY what you say can be true and it requires that the top win to be extremely rare and take more than 12% of the RTP (as per your example for offered RTP versions).

Although it does matter how they do it, there is no way you won't suffer from it. It is simple math.

 

[TheAddict]

I've abused BOD over the past 4-5 months on betvictor (94%) due to them having a min deposit of £5 and them also regularly doing small 'wager £10 on any game for X amount of spins' promos recently, and a few other casinos that have the 96% where I was playing it with the odd last £1- £3 of a balance when bored and not wanting to re deposit to quickly, and i'd often play it with any small amounts of free spins winnings I won at these casinos .
Winstar (96.%) recently done 3 months of 10 free spins every day, so God knows how many spins I had on it there (Did hit the 5000x though)
I've only been playing it on 1 line during that entire period, and massive stakes of 1p-3p (1 line significantly increases the variance, right?). So while being on only 1 line, naturally I get many dead spins anyway, but the amount of dead spins with 1 line on even the 94% version in comparison to the 96% was pretty noticable during my experience, especially the difference in regularity of seeing those 5oak K's and A's while my thumb hammered away at the start button on my tablet at an unhuman rate.
It makes me genuinely wonder if you will ever get more than one 3oak hit per 100 spins on the 92% version if playing BOD on one line.

If you want a good time, a fair warning on the load up screeen while playing BOD on 1 line would be;

We offer the 96% rtp version. How you feel is important to us, we always try to take it slow and be as gentle as possible.
We offer the 94% rtp version. At times you might be subjected to a bit of a pounding. Lube is not guaranteed.
We offer the 92% rtp version. This won't last long. Spread those cheeks.

 

[CompleteFailure]

I've taken this image from another forum but it's a nice visual for what those differences in RTP mean to the player. If I knew how to upload funny emojis it would definitely have a picture of a massive elephant doing something rather unpleasant to someone who thought they were playing book of dead at 96% RTP.....but weren't. The elephant would also be saying "it's in the help file....what's your problem"

View attachment 115629

Nice visual. Is it 89% or 91%? The other poster said something about 89/94/97 or something like that. Or maybe the casino just types in the RTP they want, LOL.
Do you have the link to this other discussion where you got the visual?

 

[Kroffe]

These kind of calculations are totally misleading as RTPs can be adjusted in various ways. The charts are the most simple calculation as if we will always lose just $4 from $100 wagered on a 96% RTP. Today's slots have complex math models which are very flexible.

E.g. reduce the rate for the top win to occur and the rest is left unchanged. 99.999999999999% of players won't see a difference in their play as all other aspects have not been touched.

Yeah, who want those top-wins anyway.
But for real tho, no matter how they change it, 94% is worse than 96%.

It is also true that you probably wont notice much of a difference, depending on how they have reduced it (like you said, less chance for topwin)
But i will always encourage people to play with the highest rtp offered. There are so many sites offering non-reduced versions of all slots, so there is really no reason to ever play them at a site that uses a lower rtp-setting.

 

[CompleteFailure]

Is it "Rage Week" before Halloween?

Seems like every thread has one member roiling up the crowds. Rohstein thread, this one. etc etc. Wasted my time reading the nonsense.

To @CompleteFailure

You sound like someone who regularly takes medication without reading the enclosed paper where they list side effects etc. and then you complain about them.

Here's a typical RTP chart how a game can be offered, the info is all out there. You just need to spend a minute to read it. BTW, I reviewed 1,000+ games and all that can have varying RTPs have a sentence warning players to read the help files.

View attachment 115630

You sound like a typical shill who can't follow an argument or remember key facts. Remember, one of the key facts: Some of the brands authorized by Playngo do not even show any RTP in the help file and will refuse to provide that info when asked.

 

[Jono777]

You sound like a typical shill who can't follow an argument or remember key facts. Remember, one of the key facts: Some of the brands authorized by Playngo do not even show any RTP in the help file and will refuse to provide that info when asked.

LMAO! - Could not be more wrong - Probably one of the most knowledgeable and helpful members on here!

Harry, among others however will also have no hesitation in calling out the bullshitters among the members.

 

[CompleteFailure]

Yeah, who want those top-wins anyway.
But for real tho, no matter how they change it, 94% is worse than 96%.

It is also true that you probably wont notice much of a difference, depending on how they have reduced it (like you said, less chance for topwin)
But i will always encourage people to play with the highest rtp offered. There are so many sites offering non-reduced versions of all slots, so there is really no reason to ever play them at a site that uses a lower rtp-setting.

You won't notice it over one session. Over a month of play, you will. That's one of the reasons why it's so deceptive.
It's quite funny to hear someone like Harry downplay its importance, when it's one of the most frequently cited things on review sites. Moreover, obviously it is a huge deal which is why the sites are doing it. Furthermore, of course it's deceptive otherwise they would make it plain.

The losers here are the operators that give the standard version. Good experiences on those casinos will lead players to play at casinos that they think are offering the same game but are in fact not.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Am i right in thinking that with the rise in popularity with online casinos our chances of winning big are reduced? i.e. more people spinning. Does that not mean we have less of the pot?

Am i correct in thinking more players will lower our rtp/bonus frequency experience also?

 

[CompleteFailure]

Am i right in thinking that with the rise in popularity with online casinos our chances of winning big are reduced? i.e. more people spinning. Does that not mean we have less of the pot?

Am i correct in thinking more players will lower our rtp/bonus frequency experience also?

You would think the opposite. The more players, the more business chasing those players, the more scale, the more competition, the more knowledge. The margins would go down.
By the way, do you think there has been a recent rise in popularity?

 

[Kroffe]

Am i right in thinking that with the rise in popularity with online casinos our chances of winning big are reduced? i.e. more people spinning. Does that not mean we have less of the pot?

Am i correct in thinking more players will lower our rtp/bonus frequency experience also?

More players spinning wont reduce your chances.
The math that runs on the slot (rtp) is the same no matter how many or how few are making spins on it.

The slots dont have "pots" of money they give out winnings from.
They

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eat money and spits out wins.

 

[goatwack]

Exactly. I could be on a desert island as the only one playing DOA and it would still f*ck me over

 

[Jono777]

Am i right in thinking that with the rise in popularity with online casinos our chances of winning big are reduced? i.e. more people spinning. Does that not mean we have less of the pot?

Am i correct in thinking more players will lower our rtp/bonus frequency experience also?

These have always been my thoughts when I am actually being rational for once and no foilwear in sight!

Only thing that is 'realistic' I could come up with to explain the MASSIVE difference in game time / value for deposits compared to a few years back.

 

[Kroffe]

These have always been my thoughts when I am actually being rational for once and no foilwear in sight!

But how would that make sense?
Lets say there were a "pot" of winnings the slot took from. More players spinning would mean bigger pot, would it not?
Now, hush, before Harry or Trancemonkey finds out we have been talking about these kinds of things.

 

[goatwack]

Think of it like this. Bigger pool of players > bigger pot > smaller pot to piss in

 

[Kroffe]

Think of it like this. Bigger pool of players > bigger pot > smaller pot to piss in

Im not sure im following, why are we pissing in the pot instead of the pool?
(i actually dont understand what you mean)

Explain using words a dumb person would understand.

 

[goatwack]

Im not sure im following, why are we pissing in the pot instead of the pool?
(i actually dont understand what you mean)

Explain using words a dumb person would understand.

If everyone gets their fingers in the pie, there's gonna be a helluva lot of sticky fingers

 

[CompleteFailure]

These have always been my thoughts when I am actually being rational for once and no foilwear in sight!

Only thing that is 'realistic' I could come up with to explain the MASSIVE difference in game time / value for deposits compared to a few years back.

Do you think the industry has grown since a few years ago?

 

[paul7388]

Im not sure im following, why are we pissing in the pot instead of the pool?
(i actually dont understand what you mean)

Explain using words a dumb person would understand.

If Eeyore , Piglet , Roo and Tigger all eat Pooh Bears Honey there not be much honey left for Pooh.

Unless you kill them all

 

[Mr_Slot5]

I'll throw in my two pence...

IMO specific game RTP should be standardised across the board. There is absolutely no need for differing RTP versions.

If a casino feels the RTP of a game is too high then they can simply refuse to offer that game...simple. If it happens to be a popular game that would draw people to the casino then tough titties. They pay their money and make their choice.

 

[Kroffe]

If Eeyore , Piglet , Roo and Tigger all eat Pooh Bears Honey there not be much honey left for Pooh.

Unless you kill them all

Wont pooh just buy more honey with the money the others pay for eating the honey?
And since they pay for more honey than they eat, pooh would end up with about 4% more honey than when they started eating.

But im willing to give your idea a shot or stab.
So to win at slots, i need to murder the competition.
Will need to think about how to go about this most efficient.

 

[paul7388]

Wont pooh just buy more honey with the money the others pay for eating the honey?
And since they pay for more honey than they eat, pooh would end up with about 4% more honey than when they started eating.

But im willing to give your idea a shot or stab.
So to win at slots, i need to murder the competition.
Will need to think about how to go about this most efficient.

View attachment 115636

Now i am the one that is totally confused

 

[bamberfishcake]

More players spinning wont reduce your chances.
The math that runs on the slot (rtp) is the same no matter how many or how few are making spins on it.

I get that but if said math and RTP is measured over lets say 1 million spins and those 1 million spins have say 10 mega and 100 big wins. If 2 years ago 100 people were in that pool of spins now 200 people then surely my chance is reduced?

These have always been my thoughts when I am actually being rational for once and no foilwear in sight!

Only thing that is 'realistic' I could come up with to explain the MASSIVE difference in game time / value for deposits compared to a few years back.

I guess it depends on the pool of spins and how its distributed on the servers? BOD may have done 1 mill spins a day whereas now its 5 mill. How would that affect our chances?

Now, hush, before Harry or Trancemonkey finds out we have been talking about these kinds of things.

Please Harry or Trancemonkey, if your not tired of repeating yourselves, help my feeble mind comprehend?

Do you think the industry has grown since a few years ago?

Found this:

Another growing segment of the gambling industry is online. The global market size of online gambling was forecasted to reach over 59 billion U.S. dollars in 2020, growing by around 20 billion U.S. dollars in just five years. The largest share of this industry segment is made up of casino gambling and sports betting

 

[Kroffe]

Now i am the one that is totally confused

Oh i thought pooh was the slot, and the honey was the money.
Best just wait for Harry to explain it without using the characthers of Hundred acre woods.

 

[paul7388]

Oh i thought pooh was the slot, and the honey was the money.
Best just wait for Harry to explain it without using the characthers of Hundred acre woods.

Owl is wise. Go ask him.

 

[CompleteFailure]

Wont pooh just buy more honey with the money the others pay for eating the honey?
And since they pay for more honey than they eat, pooh would end up with about 4% more honey than when they started eating.

But im willing to give your idea a shot or stab.
So to win at slots, i need to murder the competition.
Will need to think about how to go about this most efficient.

View attachment 115636

Rabbit hosts a cookout in 100 acre wood. Pooh and friends show up delighted to stuff themselves silly. Rabbit tells them that he's got no meat, so they each need to contribute - 1 leg or 1 tail. Then he'll cook it to perfection. Rabbit sells half the raw meat to the butcher for a tidy profit and serves the steaming meat to Pooh and friends. While happily munching on each other's scrumptious legs, Rabbit realizes they're even dumber and more docile than he thought so he chops off their heads. The end.

 

[Kroffe]

I get that but if said math and RTP is measured over lets say 1 million spins and those 1 million spins have say 10 mega and 100 big wins. If 2 years ago 100 people were in that pool of spins now 200 people then surely my chance is reduced?



I guess it depends on the pool of spins and how its distributed. BOD may have done 1 mill spins a day whereas now its 5 mill. How would that affect our chances?



Please Harry or Trancemonkey, if your not tired of repeating yourselves, help my feeble mind comprehend?



Found this:

Another growing segment of the gambling industry is online. The global market size of online gambling was forecasted to reach over 59 billion U.S. dollars in 2020, growing by around 20 billion U.S. dollars in just five years. The largest share of this industry segment is made up of casino gambling and sports betting

The wins dont get taken out of the pool.
Two people can get the same spin/win
1 person doing a million spins or 10 people doing ten million spins will still average to the same payout % for the slot.

 

[dionysus]

I get that but if said math and RTP is measured over lets say 1 million spins and those 1 million spins have say 10 mega and 100 big wins. If 2 years ago 100 people were in that pool of spins now 200 people then surely my chance is reduced?



I guess it depends on the pool of spins and how its distributed on the servers? BOD may have done 1 mill spins a day whereas now its 5 mill. How would that affect our chances?

It's a tired analogy but let's go back to the bag of marbles....9 black, one white
You can reach in and pull out a win (white)
but so can the next person; the white isnt removed from the bag, but put back in
edit - i see Kroffe responded

 

[Jono777]

Do you think the industry has grown since a few years ago?

Massively!

 

[bamberfishcake]

It's a tired anology but let's go back to the bag of marbles....9 black, one white
You can reach in and pull out a win (white)
but so can the next person; the white isnt removed from the bag, but put back in
edit - i see Kroffe responded

Its a brilliant analogy, perfect for me!

So is there just one big bag of marbles though or 10/100/1000? That would change the chances right?

Ill hold off for now as probably have a few more questions. Tried finding some stuff about this in the ask anything about slots thread but it needs an index that thing. I love it but couldnt find the answers.

 

[dionysus]

Its a brilliant analogy, perfect for me!

So is there just one big bag of marbles though or 10/100/1000? That would change the chances right?

Ill hold off for now as probably have a few more questions. Tried finding some stuff about this in the ask anything about slots thread but it needs an index that thing. I love it but couldnt find the answers.

if you havent, check out the Ask Me Anything thread; it has all these answers and more
I'm still hoping @trancemonkey will make a quick guide thread, where he grabs the most asked Qs with responses from there, for those as have to go through the thread looking....and other members can also drop in direct links for new members looking for answers.

 

[dionysus]

Its a brilliant analogy, perfect for me!

So is there just one big bag of marbles though or 10/100/1000? That would change the chances right?

well, no, continuing the marble analogy, it could be
10 > 9 black, 1 white
100 > 90 black, 10 white
1000 > 900 black, 100 white

all above: odds 1 in 10

 

[Kroffe]

All everyone needs to know is that the only thing that is rigged is Tuesday Madness over at vs.
But thats against me personally, so it wont affect you guys.

 

[CompleteFailure]

if you havent, check out the Ask Me Anything thread; it has all these answers and more
I'm still hoping @trancemonkey will make a quick guide thread, where he grabs the most asked Qs with responses from there, for those as have to go through the thread looking....and other members can also drop in direct links for new members looking for answers.

What do you attribute to the apparent lower chances for players? Do you think it's real or an illusion (I don't have a clue)? The general rule in business, is that as an industry matures and scales, the consumer gets lower prices. Casinos are basically in the business of selling volatility and entertainment and yet as the industry has grown, the price for that volatility and entertainment has increased according to some players here.

 

[dionysus]

What do you attribute to the apparent lower chances for players? Do you think it's real or an illusion (I don't have a clue)? The general rule in business, is that as an industry matures and scales, the consumer gets lower prices. Casinos are basically in the business of selling volatility and entertainment and yet as the industry has grown, the price for that volatility and entertainment has increased according to some players here.

Let's set aside for the moment that some casinos offer games in different rtp settings

One problem is confirmation bias.
If someone has a losing streak - and let's say - a long one, people can easily find another thread or instance where another player has had the same, thus confirming (to themselves) something has changed...ignoring the just as many threads where members have had winning sessions or sessions where nothing much has changed at all.

The goalpost has moved.
When a player has started out, maybe they only ever dropped in the rare tenner and won a few times and taken out 50.....5X their starting balance.
That player these days may drop in that same tenner (or more) but more often, still expecting that result forgetting, the scenraio is, youre always far likelier to lose
Maybe they see the big wins in threads and now want to pull out 1000x thinking, well, why not me, no longer content with that 5x

The landscape (player or casino) has changed
There's more high volaitiy slots out there, promising big wins/more players posting big wins
Maybe said player mostly played low to medium variance slots but are now flogging away at highly volatile slots,

Remember, end of day casino always wins..ALWAYS!

 

[CompleteFailure]

Let's set aside for the moment that some casinos offer games in different rtp settings

One problem is confirmation bias.
If someone has a losing streak - and let's say - a long one, people can easily find another thread or instance where another player has had the same, thus confirming (to themselves) something has changed...ignoring the just as many threads where members have had winning sessions or sessions where nothing much has changed at all.

The goalpost has moved.
When a player has started out, maybe they only ever dropped in the rare tenner and won a few times and taken out 50.....5X their starting balance.
That player these days may drop in that same tenner (or more) but more often, still expecting that result forgetting, the scenraio is, youre always far likelier to lose
Maybe they see the big wins in threads and now want to pull out 1000x thinking, well, why not me, no longer content with that 5x

The landscape (player or casino) has changed
There's more high volaitiy slots out there, promising big wins/more players posting big wins
Maybe said player mostly played low to medium variance slots but are now flogging away at highly volatile slots,

Remember, end of day casino always wins..ALWAYS!

Ok, so you think it's mostly illusion combined with a trend towards higher volatility. And you are not commenting on changes to RTP.
Interesting about the trend towards higher volatility, I would have thought the opposite given the move towards fixed lines.

 

[dionysus]

Ok, so you think it's mostly illusion combined with a trend towards higher volatility. And you are not commenting on changes to RTP.
Interesting about the trend towards higher volatility, I would have thought the opposite given the move towards fixed lines.

I'm not commenting on rtp because i have and others have so it'd be beating a dead horse.
I'm saying I think player perspectives and expectations, combined with changes in what's being put out - by casinos and player demand, have changed