Open letter to FL, Prove you're not a ROGUE!!!

[Nanny Rose]

FL are without doubt the newest rogues on the block. IMO they should be immediately moved to the rogues section. They have a policy of deliberately misleading customers in order to STEAL back bonuses that they give. They may be the best of the rogues, but rogues they are.

As said in a previous post by somebody else, they are taking the "insurance company" approach. If they take back bonuses wrongly, many people won't complain, thus helping the FL bottom line. This is not staff training, do me a favour! It's deliberate theft. If any other casino group behaved how they were behaving they would be struggling for business very quickly. However FL group were one of the best, and so have a lot more goodwill left to erode before they go out of business. Trust me, it wont take long though unless they make a U-Turn and sort this mess out.

Their new terms are there to DELIBERATELY MISLEAD players. They are set up to aid FL in their dishonest theft of money given to new customers who have given FL, in good faith, a fair shot at getting their money. The policy of taking all bonuses back from customers who fall (however) short of the w/r's is good short term business sense for FL. It's a shame FL management didn't get any relationship marketing lessons when they go their jobs there.

Not only do they STEAL these bonuses back from customers, but they make the terms so misleading, that for the average joe (these are the customers FL needs the most) they are very difficult to understand. Mistakes are often made by people. That's human nature. We all know FL makes them aplenty. The lucky few who do complain get their money back. When players make a mistake they are rewarded with having the money offered to them taken away. Is that right? NO. How about this for an example.

Say you stay in a nice Las Vegas hotel. The staff tell you if you wager so much and deposit so much, they'll comp you a nice plush suite while you stay. You think great, i like this place. You deposit the money, make your bets, and have a nice stay in your lovely suite. In the middle of the night, the hotel management come in your room, wake you up, and boot you out, because you wagered $50 less than you had to according to the terms you signed up to.

FL-Would that be right?

Is this your policy?

Or is it better to politely inform the customer in the morning that they were $50 short of the required wagers, and apologise for not making your terms clear and understandable to them. It's not like the customer was $1000's short. IT'S OBVIOUS THE REASON THE WAGER REQUIREMENT WAS NOT MET WAS THAT IT WAS NOT EXPLAINED PROPERLY. That should be your responsibility if you are a reputable outfit. If you're not, then you'll get away with it, but trust me you will not be endearing yourself to the hearts of the payers community.

Get your terms CLEAR, CONCISE, and HONEST.

Don't cheat players, and treat them with the respect and trust that they show to you.

Train your staff to understand the terms, because if your staff can't get it right how the hell can you expect players to get it. GET IT?????

Get rid of your terms stating that bonuses are removed if requirements are not met. It may be legal, but its moral THEFT.

You've already got into trouble with the UK Advertising Standards Authority once. If anyone reading this gets any confusing/misleading emails from FL, complain here Old / Expired Link
We all get their misleading spam. Maybe if we all start doing something about it, they'll finally get the message.


SO FL, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

PS
I'd like to say that this is not a gripe because i've been caught out. Being a regular casino player i worked it out, and made sure that i didn't get caught out. It just makes me sick to hear about so many people having what is rightfully theirs STOLEN, and watching FL make a few pathetic excuses for what is going on. They know exactly what they are doing. They are ROGUES.

 

[clj7221]

Great Post. I have had nothing but problems with Fortune Lounge. They should be in the ROGUE section.

 

[Catwoman]

If you've seen my thread in the complaints forum you'll know what my vote is.

I really don't know how they can be anything but rogues - to me alone they've:

1) Removed money from my cashins without telling me.

2) Lied that the money was returned to my casino accounts when it wasn't.

3) Posted on this forum that the money was removed because I hadn't met wagering requirements from bonuses received - again another lie, I'd clearly lost everything and my balance had reverted to zero.

I agree - Bryan, get them in the Rogues section.

 

[jpm]

That was one hell of a first post! :notworthy

I would like to add that one way to avoid confusion would be for the casino to send an email to the player when they add the bonus to their account. Inform them that the bonus has been credited as well as how much wagering is required prior to cashin, as well as a reminder of what games don't count. This should be fairly easy to do with a form letter and just a few blanks to fill in for amounts. It may be a little bit of work up front, but should save alot of CSR work in the end trying to solve these complaints.

 

[Nanny Rose]

I was hoping for a few more votes in the poll. I think its right to have a poll to guage public feelings about the situation. Come on people, make a vote! It doesn't matter what you vote for, and i'm sure many people will vote on FL's side too (after all they were one of the best casino groups out there for years). If lots of us vote, it will help FL get an idea of what players feel is happening at the moment. I'm not trying to make a personal crusade against them, but i think they should be made to realise whats going on.

I'm sure at the minute FL's bottom line is up because they will have saved so much money in bonuses. That means that the occassional slating on a few big public forums is a cost than can be afforded, because the average Joe is getting caught out, and losing even more money than he would by splitting tens and doubling on twelves. What they dont realise is that the "ripple effect" is pretty slow, and all those players coming through on the 1000's of smaller forums aren't hearing about the problems and risks involved in playing at FL casinos. That's the thing IMO. It's not that many of us here (although still a few) that are having problems. It's all the others that dont know about such a great resource as the casinomeister WOL etc! That ripple will eventually reach them though, and that will spell the death knell for the FL group, and will become a huge problem for the industry in general.

I believe that FL need to have an example made of them. If we can "show them the light" and persuade them with honest reasoning that they have made a huge mistake, it will benefit all -players and casino opeartors alike. I bet Belle Rock Gamig are laughing all the way to the bank at the minute. If FL get away with treating players so shabbily many others will follow suit.

Those here at Casiomeister and WOL are mainly the most experienced and knowledgeable players in the community. It is up to us to make a stand, not just for us, but for all the players who are getting scammed by the warren cloud's and many other rogues in this industry.

So come on people-VOTE!!!!!!
And come on FL-Please Respond!!

 

[caruso]

Casinos have rules for a reason. If players cannot follow those rules or are otherwise literacy-challenged they should NOT be gambling online, or they should at least be boning up on those literacy skills first.

I've played at the Fortune Lounge group several times a week, most weeks for the last three years. The only small inconvenience I once suffered was being asked for ID documents. Other than that, I've breezed through - and I rarely bother to keep up to date with the T & C. Though not a fan of Microgaming in principle, I do like this group. If I were a new player, I would be a bit discouraged by that "only 20% blackjack" rule on the sign up promo. Other than that, based on my own experience, I highly recommend them.

 

[Clayman]

Well, I voted #3.
It seems to me from what I read their worst practice is not reversing the bonus amount back to the casino account when someone is short of WR's. I guess I imagine this is because this is what their computers are programmed to do. I thought they used to not confiscate the bonus when someone was short. It seemed like a by-product of a manual process of approving withdrawals. But I don't really know as I never had that problem that I can remember now. Personally, I'd prefer they reverse the entire cash-in amount if I'm short of WR's.
Do their new terms say they will confiscate a bonus and/or winnings when short of WR's? If so, I think it's a bad way to go about it. If the terms say that then all a player has to do, what I would do, is ask them before a cash-in if I have met the WR's.
I'd like to see FL directly address this issue. And I'd like to know how many people they may have done this to. It certainly does not seem fair to only credit back the "squeaky wheel", if that is what they are indeed doing.
On the other hand, it seems as if everyone who has had a complaint has ultimately had their problem resolved. No?

 

[jpm]

Part of the problem at least of late is that they changed their terms in mid-stream and didn't make it known to the players. Not even the VIP players (of which I am one). I was then bitten by the new rule when I did a cashin, after having met what I thought were the requirements, only to have part of my cashin reversed and a bonus removed. It would not have occurred to me to ask if I'd met the requirements, since I kept track and knew I'd exceeded them! I just didn't know that those were the old rules and the new rules required much more wagering than I'd done. Chad (or Wim) cleared it up promptly for me though, but it was still a bit frustrating.

I stand by my previous suggestion. Send the player an email as soon as a bonus is credited informing them exactly how much play is required and what games don't count.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Casinos have rules for a reason. If players cannot follow those rules or are otherwise literacy-challenged they should NOT be gambling online, or they should at least be boning up on those literacy skills first.

I've played at the Fortune Lounge group several times a week, most weeks for the last three years. The only small inconvenience I once suffered was being asked for ID documents. Other than that, I've breezed through - and I rarely bother to keep up to date with the T & C. Though not a fan of Microgaming in principle, I do like this group. If I were a new player, I would be a bit discouraged by that "only 20% blackjack" rule on the sign up promo. Other than that, based on my own experience, I highly recommend them.

A couple of months ago I would have agreed but since they've taken 4 or 5 bonuses off me wrongly (I was a pltinum level VIP at the time but now I rarely play) - each time they have eventually credited it back but only after several emails when they've tried to tell me all sorts of bollox.

The same has happened to Catwoman by the looks of it, so how can you seriously say you would recomend them with all the problems people are having?

I certainly used to but now it has to be 32red and the Cryptologic casino's - excellent CS and they don't remove bonuses from your cashin's when they feel like it.

To me this whole afair is leaving Fortune Lounge's reputation in tatters - certainly to anyone who reads this board.

 

[clj7221]

I can't stand fortune lounge and 32 red casino. I played at 32 red casino once and that was the last time I would play there. I deposited 100 dollars and played the poker games. I kept loosing not one hand did I break even on or even have any winning hand. I switched poker games and the same thing. Out of all the casinos on line I had never played a casinos that every hand of poker, even different types of poker games did I ever keep on getting loosing hands. winning nothing and not even winning any part of the bet back. ALL WERE LOOSING HANDS!!
I would never play 32 red casino again.

 

[Clayman]

I would never play 32 red casino again.

Don't worry about it - they don't accept US customers anymore.

Although I sure as heck wish they would come back.

 

[case]

I like FL

While I understand that no operation is perfect, I have to say I have in general been very impressed with FL.

Their CSRs have always worked with me to sort out any confusions (which have been uncommon to start with). I think training for all CSRs at all casinos could be improved, but I have to give FL high marks for at least having CSRs that are on my side.

I think the recent moves towards tighter bonuses and higher WRs are perfectly within reason. There's a balance between attracting and keeping players and opening up the store to all takers. I'm sure that balance varies over time, and I'm sure they don't have a perfect read on what it should be at any given time.

In the past, whenever there's been an accidental WR shortage, they've reversed the bonus to my account and processed the rest of the withdrawal. If they've changed that rule, that's disappointing, but hardly worth a huge upset. And it sounds like when that has happened, they've worked with the player to sort it out.

I'm sorry to be argumentative, but I think comparing FL to the genuine rogues out there is simply nonsensical. Rogues steal your money. Taking back a bonus after violation of the T&C is hardly the same thing.

 

[Catwoman]

Well wait till they start WRONGLY taking money from your cashins without telling you, lie that it's been credited back to your account and then post things on public forums entirely different to what they've said in emails.

I'm sure you'll remain very impressed with them then!

 

[Casinomeister]

Okay, lets put the tourches and pitchforks down. No one is getting rogued here.

I think Caruso and Case make some good points here (and other members as well):

Casinos have rules for a reason. If players cannot follow those rules or are otherwise literacy-challenged they should NOT be gambling online.

Exactly. And did you know that if you play without a bonus, you never have these sorts of problems? There are no wagering requirements to worry about, the money is yours.

Accepting bonuses is not mandatory, you choose to do this. Casinos protect themselves from abuse by requiring wagers being made on cetain games. If you don't like it -- don't take the bonus.

Send the player an email as soon as a bonus is credited informing them exactly how much play is required and what games don't count.

Excellent suggestion.

I'm sorry to be argumentative, but I think comparing FL to the genuine rogues out there is simply nonsensical. Rogues steal your money. Taking back a bonus after violation of the T&C is hardly the same thing.

Again, good point. I know Nanny (?) started this thread out of frustration, but I don't see how enforcing terms and conditions amounts to roguedom. This group, as large as it is MAY seem to have a number of player issues - but it's because of the enormity of the player base. There are a few outspoken disgruntled players on the message boards who don't like this group. Fine and dandy. No matter what you do, or how hard you work to do the right thing, there will always be a certain level of disatisfaction.

There are a number of disgruntled players who don't like me for the same reason.

I can honestly say that I have my finger on the pulse of player complaints. Most players know that if they have a problem, they can come to me to help them sort it out. And I'm not just talking about the 7-10% of players who visit the message boards, but any player in cyberland searching for help. Type "online casino problems" at Google and see what comes up. So I get people out of the blue coming to me for help. And a majority of the complaints begin "I wish I found your site first before I went to _____"

Now it may seem that Fortune Lounge is getting tons of complaints by skimming the boards, but one thing you must consider is a) the source and b) was it resolved? I know for a fact that FL has bit hit by a large number of fraudsters - this goes the same for most casino groups - and many of these fraudsters will continue to spew their discontent on the message boards - but when they are referred to me, they are a "no show". Why? because I have them pegged. I have records of fraudsters that have used me to try and resolve complaints at RTG casinos, Boss Media, Oddson, Microgaming, Playtech, you name it - I got it. I keep my emails and they go back six years for this industry.

Now I'm not saying that there are fraudsters here, they should know better than to step into my lair, but I should caution everyone to always take what you read on message boards with a grain of salt.

Complaints for Fortune Lounge casinos: they happen. This is an company run by people who have similar problems just like you: family crisies, financial woes, they just got bitched at by their girlfriend in that morning, whatever - it's a company run by humans and humans error. Mistakes are made. I make mistakes, you make mistakes. But the real issue is how do we deal with our mistakes.

Rogue casinos will ignore their mistakes and go on - business as usual. They will post false and deceptive ad copy and take your money. Or they will twist the truth or blatently lie. Or better yet, threaten you with evil lawyers when you get a little vocal about their misdoings. These attributes are not associated with Fortune Lounge in any way.

The Fortune Lounge group has always been very fair in dealing with their players, and when mistakes are made either by the player or by the CSRs - it's usually resolved in the player's favor. I have not seen an unresolved player complaint yet. If you have one let me know.

To begin a poll to try and see if they'd be rogued here is a little short sighted. Perhaps this is not the way to go about your frustration. I would rather see a poll or an open forum for suggestions - not a device to throw someone into some pit. Wim doesn't deserve this. He is probably one of the hardest working persons I know who is trying to appease the players and his company at the same time. This is short of abusive, and is quite frankly unfair. The last thing I want to see is casino reps to cease visiting these forums because of threads like this.

 

[linda7]

I like FL and think they are honest

Hiya everyone:

I agree with Case on this issue. FL has always been very good to me, and I do not think their casino is rigged at all. I play there all the time, and have never been short changed one cent. In my opinion, everyone has to realize that any form of gambling is intended for entertainment. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. As for FL, I like the way they immediately appear in the forum if they are infomed of a problem. I have not seen any other group come into this forum and admit they were wrong. Yet, FL has done this, and to me this type of behavior proves that they care for their players.

 

[Nanny Rose]

Those are fair points made Casinomeister. I totally agree that if you don't get a bonus, there are none of these problems.

I agree, that it's your decision as to whether any casino is a rogue, and you are in the best position to be able to tell. I believe i was making my case that they were a rogue, but i didn't intend to come across as if i was demanding that you rogue them. That, of course, is you're decision with any casino, and i can only apologise if that was how my comments looked.

My post was hoping to guage how players felt about the current situation. Whilst i stand by my comments, i hope you agree that i tried to be fair in some ways. I think the poll i set up was fairly balanced, and i said on a few occasions (and totally believe) that FL were the best casino group out there in the past.

Furthermore, of course any casino can have any terms and conditions they like, and if players dont stick to them they may feel annoyed at the consequences due.

In my opinion many of the casino operators have become very myopic in their view of the industry. I'm sure many years in this industry can feel like decades, but i believe that maybe some of the casinos should step back and look at their operation for the perspective of a total newbie player. There are many players here who have not understood the terms correctly and been caught out. How would a first time player at casinos fair with understanding these terms? I'd say he/she hasn't got a chance. OK, i hear peope crying caveat emptor, you should have read the terms properly.

I believe to make a mistake is perfectly understandable. FL have made mistakes with legitimate cash outs of many people here. I just can't understand why FL can't make it clear to all what conditions must be met. I think the confirmation email mentioned earlier is a fantastic idea, and is one Wim should seriously consider.

In the same manner that FL have different terms for their sign up promotions and follow on offers, i believe that a fair proposal would be to rescind the removal of bonus terms for initial sign ups, but inform the cutomer that this term would be applied if any bonus wagering occurs after the initial sign up.

Casinos seem to have so many terms and promotional terms, that its a lot to take in. I think the bonus removal term should also be copied to the promotional terms and conditions. How many of us actually read the standard casino terms as well as the promo ones? Not many i think. I think that this is where a lot of problems come from, as i'd bet many newbies miss that one and get caught.

The question ofwhether they are a rogue, for me comes down to whether these terms are put there to "trap" the customer, ie the insurance company approach. I believe this to be true from what i can see, but of course i have no prove/knowledge of this. I think FL, as one of the biggest and best, have the responsibility to set a standard for the industry in general. This isn't the wild west anymore, and the way these big operators behave will be copied (and worse) by many others.

The UK ASA say that all advertising in the UK should be,
Legal
Decent
Honest
Truthful
Prepared with a sense of responsibility to consumers and to society
Respect the principles of fair competition generally accepted in business

I totally agree that they abide by the first and last of these principles, but as for the others i'm not too sure. It's perfectly within their rights to put up wager requirements, and to be fair, FL still have some of the lowest wager requirements for bonuses out there. 5*d+b wager requiremnts were totally out of place in todays environment. I feel that FL should be more upront and clear about their terms. Whether or not anyone believes if they are deliberately unclear, it still remains that they are unclear.

In an industry where customers are putting their "hard earned" wages at risk for enjoyment and the hope of a visit by lady luck, i believe the industry leaders should have the responsibility of making the contract a player enters into perfectly clear.

 

[linda7]

Hiya Bryan..re: FL

Hi Bryan,

You and I must have been posting at the same time. The last post I read was Catwoman's, and then I started typing. (Fell asleep at the puter for over an hour...shhh) then I read your post. Just wanted you to know that I agree with you completely regarding FL....you said it perfectly!!!!

***hugs***
Linda

 

[m249a]

I feel slightly overwhelmed by the obvious intlect of the posters on this thread. Well, me stupid you smart, has never really worked for me. So I am going to add my couple of cents too. Bryan raises some good points, but so does nanny rose. I have a hard time swallowing the whole they are a mega corporation, run by humans who make mistakes argument. Although true, we all make mistakes, the old proverb: if you don't learn from your mistakes you are doomed to repeat them. Maybe, just maybe they want to repeat them.
How many "complaints" go un-reported? Is it simply a numbers game? Does managment look at it like, if only 2-3 new players that get scammed, out of every 30 or so, complain, is it cheaper to simply answer those complaints, or should we invest capital in the proper and legit side of the business and give everyone a fair shake? I am NOT saying FL is doing this. SO save the tounge lashing for your spouse/ partner. I am asking a question that large companies have been strugling with for decades.
Take for example tobacco companies, there was proof, many many years before they admited to it, that smoking caused health problems. However they made the decision to continue to market their products in such a way that new coustomers were a'plenty. They dealt with complaints thru an army of lawyers, while continuing to work new markets with ads that were illegal in the US. When the hammer did finally fall, they made a settlement, raised the prices of their product, and still made a profit.
Who is to say online casinos, some who are part of very large conglomerates don't make the same decisions. There is no shortage of consumers, we can preach all we want about responsible gamming, but I challenge anyone to say "I have NEVER played with money I could not afford to lose" I have, several times, and probally will again in the future. I am a gambler by nature, I will wager on things until the day I die. In my lifetime this attitude has helped me as well as hurt me. Its my decision to make. As it is your as well. But having that little teenie tiny disclaimer saying "gambling problem? call 1-800gambler for help, bet with your head not over it" is as effective as having the warning on cigarettes.
I think that alot of the complaints we see popping up on message boards, and forums are very very similar. Some are almost exactlly like the last one. Now we can continue to say, "too bad pal, you should have read the 35 pages of terms and conditions before you played", or as one voice we can demand that things be made simpler to understand. We can also continue to demand accountability when an obviouse attempt at scamming someone comes to light.
I know the meister has worked hard for years to be a part of the solution, and not the problem. But I also think there are many more steps to be taken.
Cudos to FL for promptly responding to issues posted on this forum. However, what happens to the players who never post a problem, and are affected by it? Do you blanket them all? Or do you simply offer a solution to the vocal ones and let the others go?
As always I look foreward to replies.

 

[sirius]

Rogue casinos will ignore their mistakes and go on - business as usual. They will post false and deceptive ad copy and take your money. Or they will twist the truth or blatently lie. Or better yet, threaten you with evil lawyers when you get a little vocal about their misdoings. These attributes are not associated with Fortune Lounge in any way.

The Fortune Lounge group has always been very fair in dealing with their players, and when mistakes are made either by the player or by the CSRs - it's usually resolved in the player's favor. I have not seen an unresolved player complaint yet. If you have one let me know.

There is no way that most players who have a complaint with FL get it resolved. Most just give up on it. I have been sent complaints from players about them completely confiscating not only winnings but also deposits (of thousands of dollars in many cases). I'm sure Bryan gets the same excuses from Wim about fraud and Russian syndicates but they don't actually provide any proof of it. I was given the excuse that many use stolen credit cards and the actual owners will chargeback which is a reason why they don't refund the money. Neteller was being used in the complaints I had about them so maybe it makes some sense. They refunded the deposits (not winnnings) of players months later after they complained to me but why would they do that if they thought the players were part of a Russian syndicate or if they had a valid reason for denying them their winnings? I have had FL in the Dumped section of my site since July 23rd last year because I had problems myself at the time and there was a problem with a player who they claimed was part of a Russian syndicate (he had a Russian name) but he was in Canada. I don't think he did anything wrong but they confiscated his winnings and only returned his deposit many months later.

Fortune Lounge also have no qualms about phoning up people's banks or neteller trying to obtain confidential information. There have been many players who've had these problems. FL phone players up trying to get deposits. Do they tell them the wagering requirements on the phone ? They also have many complaints about spam. Players can't rely on the Customer Service to advise them about the terms and conditions because they don't know themselves in my experience with FL and players can also be mislead this way.

Of course they mislead players with these bonuses. They want to attract players but they should know by now that most players find the bonuses worthless and would rather refuse them once they read the terms and conditions. Only the advantage players see the value of them and I have said this for a long time now. Even at 5x(D+b) requirements most players would think this too much unless they are advantage players.

Twice I had problems myself with them. They were unresponsive and somehow forgot to credit bonuses they offered. This went on for months each time. I had to get Wim involved the second time after Casinomeister resolved the first problem. This first happened well over a year ago now. The second time they claimed to have no knowledge the what offers they sent even though the offers had my name and account number on them! I had to send copies of the bonus emails many times (including to Wim) before anything was done. I still have balances at most of their casinos because I haven't bothered playing there for a long time.

 

[Vesuvio]

Hi guys,

As far as I can see most people on here are agreed on the following:

1) Fortune Lounge have been a good, reliable group of casinos (ok, I know there are some dissenting voices!)

2) The change of t&cs could have been handled much better, but a few teething problems are inevitable & efforts seems to have been made to set this right, at least for the players posting on here

3) The t&cs are fairly complicated and might cause some confusion to an 'advantage' player, not to mention a casino newbie, the main problem being the separate terms for the normal bonuses and the start-up (only found in a pop-up window). The deliberate uselessness of PlayCheck to work out how much you've wagered is also a problem, but not FL's.

The above could never justify considering FL rogues.

The one problem which pushes them towards rogue status is confiscating the bonus of anyone who fails to meet the t&c. Perhaps FL should rethink this and go back to returning the cash-in to the customer's casino balance and informing them of their mistake. If they do this, they'll have proved they're not rogues.

Failing that, perhaps FortuneLounge could come on here and at least try to justify the policy?

I've searched for an innocent explanation, but really it's hard to see anything other than an attempt to squeeze some extra cash out of players. It's unlikely to have much effect on the so-called 'advantage' players, as they keep close checks on how much they play, so those affected will mainly be the type of players Fortune Lounge should want to keep. This rule must have hit a lot of players, & I suspect it's not a case of a lot of complaints on here as the group has so many customers, but of us seeing only the tip of an iceberg here.

Of course, most people won't complain as this bonus confiscation is indeed in the t&cs. But if FL use this defence of players not reading one fairly well-hidden term I don't see how this puts them much above the rogues who can also justify their malpractice by a carefully chosen term or two. After all, players who wager the required amount (at low house edge games) and then withdraw soon after are liable to have their bonuses confiscated according to the t&c of almost every casino. If any casino actually took this up and kept the money they'd surely soon be on all the blacklists.

Sorry for the length of this post. Fortune Lounge, over to you: prove to us that you're no rogues! (is it just me, or does anyone else want to add 'walk across my swimming pool' from Jesus Christ Superstar? Hmmmm, just me then )

 

[caruso]

There is no way that most players who have a complaint with FL get it resolved. Most just give up on it. I have been sent complaints from players about them completely confiscating not only winnings but also deposits (of thousands of dollars in many cases)...Fortune Lounge also have no qualms about phoning up people's banks or neteller trying to obtain confidential information.

All very interesting, Sirius. If any of it were substantiated it'd be noteworthy. As it is, it's just hot air. THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS of DEPOSITS stolen??? Phoning up banks to obtain confidential information?? Without substantiation this is no more than muck-spreading.

The one problem which pushes them towards rogue status is confiscating the bonus of anyone who fails to meet the t&c. Perhaps FL should rethink this and go back to returning the cash-in to the customer's casino balance and informing them of their mistake. If they do this, they'll have proved they're not rogues.

I have to echo the sentiment that these are only BONUS related problems. If you take a bonus and don't feel like / can't be bothered to respect the terms, how is the casino at fault for confiscating the bonus?? It's THEIR money before you meet the terms and transform it into YOUR money. If you don't like the terms, DON'T take the bonus. If you want the bonus, RESPECT THE TERMS.

You can't have it both ways.

A casino is not a rogue because the terms of the promos they offer are not to your liking.

 

[GrandMaster]

I can't stand fortune lounge and 32 red casino. I played at 32 red casino once and that was the last time I would play there. I deposited 100 dollars and played the poker games. I kept loosing not one hand did I break even on or even have any winning hand. I switched poker games and the same thing. Out of all the casinos on line I had never played a casinos that every hand of poker, even different types of poker games did I ever keep on getting loosing hands. winning nothing and not even winning any part of the bet back. ALL WERE LOOSING HANDS!!
I would never play 32 red casino again.

You seem to write off casinos very easily. You cannot win all the time. 32red is top notch operation.

 

[GrandMaster]

A casino is not a rogue because the terms of the promos they offer are not to your liking.

How about customer support and even the marketing manager giving out wrong information about bonuses, or bonuses being removed by mistake even when the conditions have been met?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I have to echo the sentiment that these are only BONUS related problems. If you take a bonus and don't feel like / can't be bothered to respect the terms, how is the casino at fault for confiscating the bonus?? It's THEIR money before you meet the terms and transform it into YOUR money. If you don't like the terms, DON'T take the bonus. If you want the bonus, RESPECT THE TERMS.

You can't have it both ways.

A casino is not a rogue because the terms of the promos they offer are not to your liking.

I agree but the posts on here are NOT to do with people failing to comply with the T&C's - they're about Fortune Lounge wrongly removing money from cashins.

They've done it to me 4 or 5 times - each time eventually returning it.

Surely this is not acceptable and is complete rogue behaviour?

 

[jetset]

I am not one of those who thinks that FL are malice-aforethought crooks, but I don't see them in the driven-snow purity that Caruso seems to suggest either. There are clearly operational problems at this casino group that need to be addressed and soon.

Players should not hesitate to flag genuine faults of casinos that are not meeting their requirements, because if they do not the casino will think this sort of behaviour is acceptable or they can get away with it, or they may not realise it is being done - especially in large casino groups.

It is also true that many of the allegations made against FL by Sirius are confirmed by posts from other players, if that is some form of "substantiation". So Sirius's comments cannot be dismissed out of hand.

I have seen repeated complaints about CSR confusion, unwelcome telemarketing, bonusing screw-ups, bad management decisions, banks being contacted, difficulty in getting off spam/promo email lists and the like.

Wim does one helluva job and has my personal respect, and his motives are certainly not ulterior. Like I said, FL are not crooks, but they need to get on top of the inefficiency problems that are indicated every time a genuine complaint is posted on the message boards.