Odds on bug in Blackjack

[pokeraddict]

This is my own fault for taking insurance when I have BJ but it dealt me 3 blackjacks against an ace each for $30. I decided to take the sure thing even money. Dealer did NOT have BJ. Then it says I won $135. This number always includes your original bet so in other words it should have paid me $180. After thinking about this alot I was intent on catching them again and I did. It was obvious this time since it was only 1 hand for a $10 bet when I was down to next to nothing. So i emailed support.......

When a player takes insurance and the dealer does not have blackjack the
player gets even money, NOT half his bet. I never would have taken
insurance except after seeing the luck that was pulled off on me today I figured
taking insurance is the only way the dealer wouldnt have BJ. Plain and
simple, you guys owe me $45 and need to fix the bug. I would suggest
fixing it today before it is exposed. I will take a screen shot of this if it is not fixed. This is VERY unfair to players, most probably wouldnt even notice.

Their response............

Thank you for your e-mail and for choosing Silver Dollar Casino!

I would like to assure you that all online games produced by Odds On Gaming have
been audited for fairness of play by an independent third party gaming expert,
Mr. Michael Shackleford ASA, who's Gaming Audit practice is located in Las
Vegas, Nevada.

The results of this ongoing audit indicate that the random number generator is
truly random and accordingly, the game play results conform to accepted
statistical norms. To acknowledge this commitment to fairness, the "Certified
Fair Gaming" seal has been applied to all games produced by Odds On Gaming.


We truly appreciate your comments and your business at
For further questions or comments, please email us at

What does this have to do at all with the fact I got shorted by the software? The RNG has nothing to do with getting shorted. I actually do feel better knowing wizard of odds verifies this but the RNG has nothing to do with what went on here nor do they even care to look into it.


UPDATE

Just got an email from them saying I never took insurance in any hand, hmmmmm that would mean in my $30 across hand my payout should have been $225 $30 bet and $45 for each BJ times 3. I decided to go back and play again to see in BJ if your bet was included in your win and it is. Thats the only way it could have said the #'s but I'm right, my bet was included in my winnings. Who knows maybe I'm crazy or blind but for them to say I never took insurance is wrong too so I must be on to something.

 

[spearmaster]

Strange indeed, and of course it has nothing to do with the RNG.

Ask them for a copy of the logs.

 

[jetset]

Good idea. EH may have responded thus far, but trying to get a dialogue going with Gagnon and crew at Odds On could be problematic!

 

[pokeraddict]

I got the logs emailed to me after I told them they were wrong, i dont understand them at all. I see all the bets and my balance but where are the cards dealt and whether insurance was taken etc? I see a bunch of letters but no #'s and no obvious AKQJ for faces. I dont usually fiddle with blackjack but caught the itch. In all I lost $200 over the course of this but $45, actually $50 cause it happened in my test after thinking it must be bugged was taken wrongfully, not enough to get stressed out but I would like for them to at least open there eyes that there could be a problem, one a novice would probably not catch. I have played at CG, EH and this was silver dollar plus big bet poker in the odds on family. At bigbet there was a software glitch that caused me to call all in in a no limit game where I had hit fold auto action button, a bug that after this happened seems had happen a few times there to them when the exact bet matched their chips it auto called them before they could act, they fixed that too after that happened a few times. Software is gonna have a bug here and there, i think its arrogant of them not to at least check into it.

 

[rainman]

This is my own fault for taking insurance when I have BJ but it dealt me 3 blackjacks against an ace each for $30. I decided to take the sure thing even money. Dealer did NOT have BJ. Then it says I won $135. This number always includes your original bet so in other words it should have paid me $180. After thinking about this alot I was intent on catching them again and I did. It was obvious this time since it was only 1 hand for a $10 bet when I was down to next to nothing. So i emailed support.......

When a player takes insurance and the dealer does not have blackjack the
player gets even money, NOT half his bet. I never would have taken
insurance except after seeing the luck that was pulled off on me today I figured
taking insurance is the only way the dealer wouldnt have BJ. Plain and
simple, you guys owe me $45 and need to fix the bug. I would suggest
fixing it today before it is exposed. I will take a screen shot of this if it is not fixed. This is VERY unfair to players, most probably wouldnt even notice.

Their response............

Thank you for your e-mail and for choosing Silver Dollar Casino!

I would like to assure you that all online games produced by Odds On Gaming have
been audited for fairness of play by an independent third party gaming expert,
Mr. Michael Shackleford ASA, who's Gaming Audit practice is located in Las
Vegas, Nevada.

The results of this ongoing audit indicate that the random number generator is
truly random and accordingly, the game play results conform to accepted
statistical norms. To acknowledge this commitment to fairness, the "Certified
Fair Gaming" seal has been applied to all games produced by Odds On Gaming.


We truly appreciate your comments and your business at
For further questions or comments, please email us at

What does this have to do at all with the fact I got shorted by the software? The RNG has nothing to do with getting shorted. I actually do feel better knowing wizard of odds verifies this but the RNG has nothing to do with what went on here nor do they even care to look into it.


UPDATE

Just got an email from them saying I never took insurance in any hand, hmmmmm that would mean in my $30 across hand my payout should have been $225 $30 bet and $45 for each BJ times 3. I decided to go back and play again to see in BJ if your bet was included in your win and it is. Thats the only way it could have said the #'s but I'm right, my bet was included in my winnings. Who knows maybe I'm crazy or blind but for them to say I never took insurance is wrong too so I must be on to something.

If the player takes insurance and the dealer does not have bj then u lose money not get even money back.If u take insurance tnad the dealer has it u get your money back.

 

[jetset]

It is worrying to hear about these glitches because Odds On are so casual (read uncaring) about screw-ups - look at the Forty Plus mess - and EH has generally had a good rep.

I think it may be an idea to email EH again summarising your situation and annotate it FOR ATTENTION MANAGEMENT so that some dumbass CSR doesn't screw it up with a form response or the wrong information. I would particularly address the missing information regarding insurance that hampers your ability to prove your case.

And I would copy it to Pierre Gagnon and his crew at Odds On because ultimately its their software I guess.

 

[pokeraddict]

Hey Rainman, I have $10 bet i get BJ, dealer shows ace. I have the option to take insurance and take $10 now instead of gambling and getting $15 if no dealer BJ. It's the same as giving them $5 now and getting $10 back if they have it either way i come out turning my $10 into $20 where as no insurance would either make me push or turn my $10 into $25. My issue is not in these numbers just using this as an easy example. Its as if the software pays the same whether you had BJ or won another way after taking insurance. I have another contact I will try today.

 

[bedunk]

Seems right to me

The payout seems right to me or maybe I am an idiot....You bet $30 each hand and took insurance, you won all hands taking even money and the dealer never had blackjack.....So that would be correct 60+60+60=180 win including original bet...Now you lost all the insurance bets taking 15+15+15=45....180-45=135..
Doesn't that seem correct or am I missing something

 

[pokeraddict]

bedunk reread the post, i clarified that. Your original bet is included in your winnings as is the case in virually any video gambling. You are correct $135 is what I won but my $90 bet is missing for one reason or another.

 

[cipher]

bedunk reread the post, i clarified that. Your original bet is included in your winnings as is the case in virually any video gambling. You are correct $135 is what I won but my $90 bet is missing for one reason or another.

Given the circumstances as they currently exist with Odds On Software et al., why in the world would you be playing their software at all??????????????????

 

[spearmaster]

The payout seems right to me or maybe I am an idiot....You bet $30 each hand and took insurance, you won all hands taking even money and the dealer never had blackjack.....So that would be correct 60+60+60=180 win including original bet...Now you lost all the insurance bets taking 15+15+15=45....180-45=135..
Doesn't that seem correct or am I missing something

Pokeraddict said he/she got three BLACKJACKS - so $30x1.5=$45x3=$135 - plus the original bets of $30x3=90 for a total of $225. Minus the lost insurance bets (0.5x$30=$15x3=$45) - so the net result should have been $225-$45=$180.

 

[spearmaster]

Some questions, however...

Then it says I won $135.

Does Odds On display the net win or the gross payout?

Also, I haven't played blackjack at Odds On any time recently, but I don't recall them having a multi-hand blackjack. Were the three blackjacks you got the result of splitting AA, catching another Ace and three ten-value cards? If so, I believe "blackjacks" which are the result of a split hand are only paid even money...

 

[bedunk]

Spearmaster.

He said he took even money on each blackjack....So the payout was correct

Pokeraddict said he/she got three BLACKJACKS - so $30x1.5=$45x3=$135 - plus the original bets of $30x3=90 for a total of $225. Minus the lost insurance bets (0.5x$30=$15x3=$45) - so the net result should have been $225-$45=$180.

 

[spearmaster]

Spearmaster.

He said he took even money on each blackjack....So the payout was correct

Even money is the equivalent of taking insurance on a blackjack. You cannot take "even money" and then have insurance deducted from the proceeds again.

 

[thesmacker]

Nice to see Odds On and English Harbour maintaining their typical posture, that is, saying nothing and continuing to show that they are downgrading their reputation to that of RTG casinos. Any casino that shows such disinterest in topics pertaining to themselves shows a lack of interest in maintaining a decent relationship with players. Heck even the biggest scumbag on the net Oliver Curran/Warren Cloud will come to his own defense, man this puts Odds On in a position to look even worse then him.WOW

 

[EnglishHarbour]

Nice to see Odds On and English Harbour maintaining their typical posture, that is, saying nothing and continuing to show that they are downgrading their reputation to that of RTG casinos. Any casino that shows such disinterest in topics pertaining to themselves shows a lack of interest in maintaining a decent relationship with players. Heck even the biggest scumbag on the net Oliver Curran/Warren Cloud will come to his own defense, man this puts Odds On in a position to look even worse then him.WOW

We did indeed try to respond to this post back on Tueasday, but were unable to register an account as casinomeister had registration turned off, I sent him an email regarding this and asked him to inform the thread that we would respond to the post once this was rectified.

Oddson blackjack displays 2 amounts 1 display shows the payout (which does not include your bet) the 2nd window displays your bet. so the payout was correct and your original bet amount was returnded to you.
Here is how the scenario would play out:

3 bets placed for $30 each, bet window will now display $90, and your casino account balance decreases by $90, you get blackjack on all 3, dealer shows an ace, then asks you do you want insurance? you place 3 $15 bets on the table for the insurance, casino account balance decreases by another $45, and the bet window now displays $135. Dealer does not have blackjack, player now loses his $45 insurance bet, bet window now displays $90. player wins all 3 hands bet window displays $90, and payout window displays $135, $135 goes into you casino account balance, and your $90 bet stays on the table until player presses clear, at which time it is returned to your casino account balance.

Hope this clears eveything up, please let me know if you need any other information regarding this topic.

Thanks
English Harbour Casino

 

[thesmacker]

You replied to this question, now do you have anything relevant to say on the forty + scandal or are you maintaining that it is acceptable for your software provider to wash their hands with their failed ventures.
One question, what happens if you guys go tits up, do all your customers simply lose thier money too since your software provider feels they should take no responsibility. (Please do not say you wont go out of business) As well, are you involved in the ownership of Odds On being that you are their only lisencee left?
Answer these questions, with a real answer, not just a statement from your lawyer please that say how you should assume no responsibility for the 40+ fiasco.
You have dodged these questions long enough, your continued silence is so disrespectful to the players that are owed money by 40+ and Odds On, it is now evident that you read these forums, so what do you have to say?

 

[jetset]

Well said, Guru - I second that.

And if Odds On are at all interested this is not going away. Now that the festive holidays are done the digging has resumed...and these questions will be answered.

 

[The Dude]

My apologies for the techno-screwup. This is a relaunched forum using a different software platform. I indeed had the "new register" turned off, and didn't relize this until EH brought this to my attention on New Years Eve.

I'm not sure whether or not this thread will give us any enlightenment on the OddsOn/40+ fiasco/failure since it is not totally clear if EH has any involvement. To keep this on topic, references to 40+ matters should be addressed here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/search

Thanks!

 

[jetset]

Bryan, whilst I take your point above, with respect English Harbour is involved in this whether they like it or not. And their reputation is paying a price as a consequence.

This is because whilst they have denied any connections to Forty Plus, they have publicly expressed confidence in Odds On which powered Forty Plus and has done little if anything to communicate with or assist players seeking a fair resolution.

They are also Odds On's sole remaining licensee and therefore have some influence in persuading Gagnon and his crew to do what is right and proper by the players in this badly handled affair.

Finally, EH has consistently failed to directly address the persistent questions regarding a possible common ownership with Odds On - and there are some interesting similarities which need explaining. A simple denial or confirmation on the common ownership is all that is necessary, yet they have deliberately ignored this aspect which has some important ramifications for the stiffed players.

I believe the criticism from your respected posters expressed above is fair and a manifestation of player frustration with the manner in which Forty Plus bugged out and in the way in which everyone involved with Odds On seems to be deliberately looking the other way instead of helping to sort the matter out.

 

[thesmacker]

Big surprise EH rep has not been back to answer. Perhaps if players and webmasters a like would discontinue with their service there would be some movement on the issue. Why someone would want to play at or advertise a group of casinos that so obviously does not respect their players enough to give them an answer to a simple question is beyond me. There are much better casinos and software providers ou there that stand accountable for the actions taken by their liscencess. I would hope players and webmasters cease to play and support Odds On casinos untill they do something about this mess, and to say that the only liscensee (EH Group) isn't involved in this mess is just absurd.

 

[jetset]

They pulled the same "ignore this and it will go away" trick at WOL recently when these fundamental questions requiring merely a straightforward and unequivocal answer were asked.

Inevitably, this sort of ill-advised approach will continue to fuel the fires of suspicion.

 

[The Dude]

Except for next Tuesday being a holiday here, I will be back in the saddle again next Monday and will be able to give this issue my full attention, i.e. the entire Oddson dilemma.

I will assure everyone that I will have answers to our questions by COB Friday.

 

[pokeraddict]

I didnt realize the discussion would turn on to other subjects so let me clear some things up.

1. After realizing that I may have gotten screwed I started playing one hand for $10 so that ot would be easy to figure out. When I was down to almost nothing I had the exact same thing happen. I got BJ with dealer ace I took insurance, the dealer didnt have BJ but I only netted $5 from a $10. In other words I had $20 (maybe $30 cant remember) before hand started, at the end I had $5 more. his proved to me there was a bug. Not the first bug I've found on the net by far so I contacted support. I was put off by how support didnt care about this at all that a player had found a possible bug that could easily have gone unnoticed.

2. I never expected refund, the $50 isnt that meaningful to me. I emailed them to tell them about the bug and how it needed to get fixed. The reply from support had nothing to do with my email and the second one was totally ignored. This was another point of my post. I never even asked for a refund.

3. I was unable to understand logs they sent me after several emails. I see the bets and my balance but they never show what anyone was dealt or if it does I cant figure out how or where.

4. This was NOT to slander odds on at all nor was I wanting to start trouble with them. I hope it didnt come across as that. I play at big bet poker who seem they have their payout act together after a decline into a bad time. My payouts there have been in expected time lately, I have won nearly $10,000 at their poker room and like their interface and the loose players compared to most poker rooms. I have cashed out about $1000 or so between EH and CG without a hassle both in a timely manner.

5. This was a Silver Dollar, a skin I assume.

I hope this clears anything questions up.

 

[thesmacker]

Sorry to derail your thread Pokeraddict I'm just soo disgusted with English Harbour right now and your right, if you have blackjack on a 10$ bet and you take insurance, whether the dealer has BJ or not your net profit should be 10$.

Insurance, when your dealt a BJ means that you will take even money regardless of the outcome at any casino I've ever played at, so yes, this would seem to be an error unless this rule is specified like that in their BJ rules. So basically, a 10$ bet, your dealt BJ on a dealer Ace, you take insurance, your balance should be 20$ no matter what, you should recieve even money for your BJ. It seems that at Odds On, when you take insurance on a BJ they charge you half your bet and still only pay you even money on your BJ. At a normal casino when you take insurance on your BJ you are charged nothing and simply accept getting even money on your blackjack.

Odds On and English Harbour should definitely look into this because its definitely not correct, but with the way EH and Odds On handles problems it might be tough to get an answer form them.