Nickslots just got hit by Rizk limits mid stream!

Stuckluck

Banned User
Joined
May 11, 2019
Location
Canada
I'm still intrigued as to how/why anyone would want to launder money through a casino. I mean if you're lucky you make 1 or 2 withdrawals out of every 20 deposits. Plus you've already left a digital trail. Pretty brainless. With this, it should be easy to spot a launderer without needing to chastise the average punter who spends maybe £50 a week hoping to get lucky.

The issues are coming because of AML and RG being conflated into one and the same with these checks. As you have said before, there should be reasonable suspicion that someone is gambling in a nefarious way before all manner of sensitive documents are requested.


I was going to make a post about this, but forgot. I'm in Vancouver, BC, one of the money laundering capitals of the world done through Casinos and real estate. Who did I see with a massive digital advertising sign between North Vancouver and West Vancouver (one of the richest areas in North America): Casumo. Off topic I know, but I thought it very rich of them to be advertising in an area well known for laundering through Casinos.
 

dealer wins

Meister Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Location
London the sh$thole
You're not being stopped from doing it, you just need to be able to prove where the money came from, which is only right, within reason. Casinos go over the top, the AML are the same for casinos as they are for banks, car dealerships etc etc.
Back in the 80's and 90's I saw a lot of money laundering and proceeds of crime being used, with barely any checks done, which lead to a lot of serious criminal activity. It needed clamping down on.
What isn't needed is casinos demanding bank statements from your mate who lent you a tenner in 2015 to prove he hadn't stolen the money he transferred to you!
If the money comes from my bank account, its mine. whether its £10 or £100,000
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
If the money comes from my bank account, its mine. whether its £10 or £100,000

If it's already in your account then why would a launderer launder it again? This is why I don't understand SOW checks on UK debit card transactions with casinos. To be fair, I think the UK bookie sites understand this. The Maltese lot don't seem to.
If i ever rob a bank ill remember to quickly deposit it into my account so it becomes mine.
Its the perfect crime.

View attachment 145235
I think the bank may ask a few questions :laugh:
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
If it's already in your account then why would a launderer launder it again? This is why I don't understand SOW checks on UK debit card transactions with casinos. To be fair, I think the UK bookie sites understand this. The Maltese lot don't seem to.

I think the bank may ask a few questions :laugh:
Ill obviously deposit it in the bank on the other side of the street.
Im not stupid.
:p
 

shadow123

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
midlands
Really think 2021 will see the death of UK online gaming as we know, we are right on the edge now and another round of
regulations will finish it.2020 has got to be the worst years experience ever for me although somehow I am still in profit
but the funs gone, knowing everything you do including loss levels,deposits levels and time spent online is being
monitored by computers which are generating masses of alerts which are being processed by countless teams of
faceless people.Reminds me very much of the film Brazil (an offbeat version of 1984).
Dont know why gambling has been singled out for this treatment,been around since roman times and before , now suddenly
it is portrayed as immoral and seedy, something a responsible person should not be doing and if they must do it, it will
be on the states terms.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
Really think 2021 will see the death of UK online gaming as we know, we are right on the edge now and another round of
regulations will finish it.2020 has got to be the worst years experience ever for me although somehow I am still in profit
but the funs gone, knowing everything you do including loss levels,deposits levels and time spent online is being
monitored by computers which are generating masses of alerts which are being processed by countless teams of
faceless people.Reminds me very much of the film Brazil (an offbeat version of 1984).
Dont know why gambling has been singled out for this treatment,been around since roman times and before , now suddenly
it is portrayed as immoral and seedy, something a responsible person should not be doing and if they must do it, it will
be on the states terms.
Yeah I don't get it either. As I said in another thread, it's meant to be fun and spontaneous...that's the whole point.

I'd wager that alcohol causes just as many social issues (if not more)- look at the cost to the NHS for starters- yet people can go get leathered as they please.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
If the money comes from my bank account, its mine. whether its £10 or £100,000
Presumably you're not a criminal then, and don't do anything wrong. Others are criminals and do.
For example, someone who works fiddle and gets say £500 a week while claiming benefits goes to coral, deposits say £300 cash over the counter, then £20 online using a debit card, does a few £50 roulette spins, £24 black, £24 red, £2 zero, then withdraws £300 or thereabouts, to their bank account, they now have £300 of that dodgy money now legitimate, and if the DWP checks their bank statements, they can say they had a win on the horses/footy/slots. The same applies for any bookie where you can pay cash in and allow you to withdraw to any method. You can also use paysafe cards, pre-paid visa on casinos without a high street presence.
I know an accountant who was in my local Billy Hills 3/4 times a day. Always put £500 in an FOTB, would do a couple of quick spins, a couple of £ each, cashout and get a receipt for the withdrawal to show it was gambling winnings. He got caught because the volume was so high and he was being investigated for other stuff, but someone wanting to clean a few hundred from fiddle work, or money they made from shoplifting, wouldn't be under that scrutiny and would get away with it.

It's not quite as easy as that now on the FOTB's (still possible though) but that could still be done a couple of years back.
 

News Hound

Casinomeister News
Staff member
CAG
MM
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
We covered the actions of streamers over on Casino Gazette the other day. As to whether the actions of streamers are a threat to the online casino industry in the UK. Poetic justice somewhat that a high profile streamer gets hit with a loss limit, considering there is a growing groundswell of support for loss limits to be enforced on UK players.

Are Slot Streamers a Threat to the Online Casino Industry in the UK?
 

dealer wins

Meister Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Location
London the sh$thole
Presumably you're not a criminal then, and don't do anything wrong. Others are criminals and do.
For example, someone who works fiddle and gets say £500 a week while claiming benefits goes to coral, deposits say £300 cash over the counter, then £20 online using a debit card, does a few £50 roulette spins, £24 black, £24 red, £2 zero, then withdraws £300 or thereabouts, to their bank account, they now have £300 of that dodgy money now legitimate,

This would be picked up by the casino very quickly, who would then rightly request SOW etc No legit player would bet in that way it would be obvious they had a suspected money launderer
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
This would be picked up by the casino very quickly, who would then rightly request SOW etc No legit player would bet in that way it would be obvious they had a suspected money launderer
now it would (not always), it wouldn't have a couple of years ago (in fact I know of at least one malta based casino where money laundering is very easy due to how their payments system is set up), and thats why the UKGC clamped down on casinos not following AML procedures. As usual the Maltese casinos, who generally don't have UK legal representation, have gone massively over the top in what they do. The reason skybet et all don't request 1000 documents when you deposit a tenner is because they understand the law properly.
 

Gaz237

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
May 8, 2014
Location
chelmsford UK
If it's already in your account then why would a launderer launder it again? This is why I don't understand SOW checks on UK debit card transactions with casinos. To be fair, I think the UK bookie sites understand this. The Maltese lot don't seem to.

I think the bank may ask a few questions :laugh:

The Casino have no idea where the money in your bank has come from.

Just because it's in your account, does not mean the money is clean.

Hence SOW checks to find out.

Easy to sort if your PAYE, a ball ache if not.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
The Casino have no idea where the money in your bank has come from.

Just because it's in your account, does not mean the money is clean.

Hence SOW checks to find out.

Easy to sort if your PAYE, a ball ache if not.
Really it should though, as the bank has to do SoF checks as part of their AML obligations. However the UKGC state clearly that casinos shouldn't rely on other parties to have done the checks. Personally I think the banks should be doing this type of thing, they can see all transactions, and where they came from, rather than a casino based outside the UK wanting all your financial information. It will only be a matter of time until we find out some casino employee has shared all customer data like this with someone else. While that could happen with a bank, I would suggest it is much less likely.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
Really it should though, as the bank has to do SoF checks as part of their AML obligations. However the UKGC state clearly that casinos shouldn't rely on other parties to have done the checks. Personally I think the banks should be doing this type of thing, they can see all transactions, and where they came from, rather than a casino based outside the UK wanting all your financial information. It will only be a matter of time until we find out some casino employee has shared all customer data like this with someone else. While that could happen with a bank, I would suggest it is much less likely.
Completely agree. Leave it to the banks.

It should be the case that if the bank authorises the payment, the money is good. Easy.
 

danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
You have to remember that money laundering is not about making 100% of the money clean. Any clean money is clear, provable legitimate cash. The loss is just the costs of their illegitimate business.

So roulette (for instance) is high risk for casinos, because it's a simple way to launder with little risk for the fraudster. Start with a grand of dirty money, leave with £400 in clean money.

Online casinos are even higher risk, because realistically the checks are not as simple as in-person.
 

coolrunnings19

Newbie member
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Location
Uk
Rumour has it that the UKGC are going to impise loss limits of as little as 100 pounds a month. This would go in line with the £2 max stake which is coming in next year anyway. Looks like the industry is coming to an end in the UK which is sad as there are some people that like to go on and have a flutter. Not sure if this will apply to football betting too? The end of online casinos in the UK??
 

dec2008mcl

Full Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Location
N Ireland
Think we need to take into consideration the 1.5 suicides per day in the UK related to online gambling. Coroners are coming under increasing pressure to put on death certificates suicide as a result of gambling addiction, bill currently in the house of lords. If passed this will leave even greater liability at the hands of online casinos, if there is such a thing. Online slots as it once was is gone, hard to see it come back, and online casinos will reduce rtp to suit
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
Think we need to take into consideration the 1.5 suicides per day in the UK related to online gambling. Coroners are coming under increasing pressure to put on death certificates suicide as a result of gambling addiction, bill currently in the house of lords. If passed this will leave even greater liability at the hands of online casinos, if there is such a thing. Online slots as it once was is gone, hard to see it come back, and online casinos will reduce rtp to suit
Might aswell go down the route of 'suicide because wife left' or 'suicide because lost job' then.

Mental health issues are mental health issues and gambling is often used as an escape route from these issues. The mental health issues are often the root cause. Gambling addiction is a symptom.

Why is gambling being demonised? Why do we always have to go after the low hanging fruit rather than tackling the underlying, more fundamental issues?
 

dec2008mcl

Full Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Location
N Ireland
Think they were happy down that route and to continue down it until 3 people started killing themselves every 2 days, which doesn't happen with job losses/separations. Agree that its a mental health issue but there is no health service in the UK to deal with it, after decades of austerity. Its only goin to get worse which is why they have to be seen to be doin something, and what were seeing now is the results.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
Think they were happy down that route and to continue down it until 3 people started killing themselves every 2 days, which doesn't happen with job losses/separations. Agree that its a mental health issue but there is no health service in the UK to deal with it, after decades of austerity. Its only goin to get worse which is why they have to be seen to be doin something, and what were seeing now is the results.
There is a blame culture. It's easier for people to blame someone or something rather than face the fact that we are humans and get ill...that includes mentally. Things won't get better as long as we focus on the symptoms rather than the root cause.

So, we ban gambling...then what? We are still left with the problem of the mental illness and it will manifest another way. These 'professionals' need to buck their ideas up and grab the issue of mental health by the bollocks rather than window dressing the issue like this.

Of course operators need to be aware and act responsibly; carry out due diligence etc but we need to put it into the context that most people DON'T have an issue. The whole industry does not need to be run into the ground.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
You do realise slot machines in themselves r designed to be addictive?
Of course. Anything that triggers a dopamine response is addictive.

Should we just ban everything that elicits this physiological response?
 

dec2008mcl

Full Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Location
N Ireland
The majority that cause this amount of death already are banned mate. I'm not trying to pick a fight, just stating the facts whether we like it or not. Truth is, its all happening above our heads anyway.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
The majority that cause this amount of death already are banned mate. I'm not trying to pick a fight, just stating the facts whether we like it or not. Truth is, its all happening above our heads anyway.
I'm not disagreeing with you mate, I just wish as much effort was put into combating mental health issues rather than pissing around the edges like we are seeing.
 
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