NetEnt: Creature from the Black Lagoon (December)

[kktmd]

564.198 spins. Freeplay.

Bonus rounds count as 1 spin.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

LOL - one win over 1000x stake and fifteen over 500x in 564,000 spins

Dear Netent, please disappear back under your rock and don't come out until you remember how to make a decent slot again.

 

[kktmd]

Balance and wins over 250 x bet.
4 sessions - balance jumps to 500.000 when session resets.

 

[kktmd]

This slot is pretty brutal. Variance is a bit higher than DOA, but with far fewer big wins. Most "big" wins in 100-250 xbet range.

 

[dunover]

Balance and wins over 250 x bet.
4 sessions - balance jumps to 500.000 when session resets.

View attachment 44577

This is exactly what myself, Balthazar and Chopley were trying to put into words without any visual aids like your graph.
The sheer brutality of the Netent games is evident here - at only 2 or 3 points were you in a position of decent withdrawable profit from your 'deposit' and most crucially NOT at the start; you were well down before hitting a decent gain later on, which did not put you in overall profit, but just on that latest deposit.
As most players tend to hit casinos 'fresh' with their SUBs and over their stay at the casino play a fraction of the 500k+ spins you did, it demonstrates how clever (or nasty depending on your point of view) the Netent paytables are at raping the new player. I'm glad I don't play Netent any more.

This slot should be renamed 'Turd From The Unflushed Toilet'.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

It really is breathtakingly cynical design on Netent's part, it can't be an accident that they've managed to design a slot that's higher variance than DoA (which we can see thanks to kktmd's superb numbers and graph), and yet is almost inherently incapable of ever giving a player a decent win and getting them back into the game after a bad start. (A bad start which they will almost inevitably have.)

Is it possible to put an entire software onto the 'not recommended' list?

I'm being half serious as well! We all know that the idea of slots is we lose money over time, but at least other providers produce slots where the player has a decent chance of landing a decent win or two and cashing out, whereas Netent are IMO as close as you can possibly get to 'rigging' their slots whilst still maintaining T-RTP and randomness.

 

[lotusch]

I am glad more and more people start to question the slots from the Netent poop factory.
And the graphs show exactly what people try to say and explain in words.
The amount of money I lost in the last 18 months on Netent is ridiculous.
I dare to say I have never made a decent profit on any Netent slot over those months.
I make my winnings on WMS and MGS mostly,with having achieved multiple 1000x + stake wins but all this ended up in the neverending empty dark void called Netent slots.

Yet after giving out to them all the time I still try them sometimes,as said above,mostly when signing up at a new casino with a decent new player deposit bonus.
Good example is I deposited for first time at CasinoEuro this weekend and tried the slot mentioned in this thread and it took me over 700!!! spins from the start to hit the first free spins which then paid about 40x bet.
Worst part,I was 1 hit off to kill the creature and yet still no decent wins in the whole free spins session.

So yé Dunover,one thinks to really NOT play Netent at all anymore.
I actually might come out better on the end of the year balance wise as I do get nice hits but defo NOT on Netent slots.

They are so bad,beyond any imagination.

 

[Jazzbaz]

That graph might just as well describe almost every session I have ever had at Elements. It took a me a long time to realise that it was just not your basic variance that was screwing me over. I just could not figure it out why a seemingly pretty low variance slot had such long spells of dead spins. Way too many a time I started a session with less than 30% return over a couple of hundred spins and bust out before knowing what hit me.

 

[gokkie]

Thank you very much for the graph kktmd.
What forum members are saying about the latest netent releases is so so true and this graph is hard evidence.

There is one slot in particular I would like to see these stats on: secret of the stones.
I have played thousands of spins on this one and I cannot remember a win over 150x.
Brutal patches without free spins, almost impossible to hit a big win, no chance of a big win during normal spins (I think 50x is max)

I would love to see a graph of this slot, I think it would give even more evidence of the fact that netent has found the ideal slot layout to make constant profits and still reach the RTP%. It is so obvious what they are doing here, I even question the fact these netents slots should have 'accredited' status.

 

[Balthazar]

I'd not say that the variance is higher than DoA. Yes there are more wins over 100x, but they pretty much cap there so it sounds like medium variance to me, at best?

Either way, since it's the patented impossible-to-win NetEnt paytable, "variance" isn't even relevant.

 

[RichieRespin]

I'd not say that the variance is higher than DoA. Yes there are more wins over 100x, but they pretty much cap there so it sounds like medium variance to me, at best?

For correctness sake: There are also more wins in the "over 250x" section on Creatures vs DoA.

4,75 more spins were played on DoA, 83 x 4.75 = 394 wins over 250x , compared to 387 for DoA.

Not that that changes much, I suppose.

I loved those graphs over gaming rounds, as a visualization tool. Would be very nice to see similar graphs from other slots.

 

[Jory]

So I guess the only question that remains to be answered is...

What kind of fish do this?

 

[kktmd]

I'd not say that the variance is higher than DoA. Yes there are more wins over 100x, but they pretty much cap there so it sounds like medium variance to me, at best?

I was a bit surprised that the standard deviation was a bit higher than DOA (160 vs 150). Statistically speaking, this would make the variance higher (since variance=standard deviation*standard deviation), although I think DOA feels like a higher variance slot.

 

[kktmd]

So I guess the only question that remains to be answered is...

Evil pilot fish.

 

[wobble33]

Absolutely agree. Did you see my screenie of a 521x stake (normal spin) in FREEPLAY? Must've been an aberration. Their slots are a cross between Vlad The Impaler, The Yorkshire Ripper and Ronnie Biggs.

LMFAO

I agree totally about the new slots but this comment, well it made me spill my coffee

 

[dunover]

I was a bit surprised that the standard deviation was a bit higher than DOA (160 vs 150). Statistically speaking, this would make the variance higher (since variance=standard deviation*standard deviation), although I think DOA feels like a higher variance slot.

DoA feels like a Higher-variance slot, but it clearly isn't - for the simple fact it very regularly gives wins of 1-2x stake, and quite often 5 hats/whisky/boots etc. Your stake lasts a bit longer.

 

[Balthazar]

DoA feels like a Higher-variance slot, but it clearly isn't - for the simple fact it very regularly gives wins of 1-2x stake, and quite often 5 hats/whisky/boots etc. Your stake lasts a bit longer.

Well then its even more evil than I originally thought. On average it will eat your entire bankroll quicker (spin for spin) than DoA yet doesn't have the big wins. That's on the verge of being mathematically impossible.

I was boycotting NetEnt's recent releases but I might boycott the whole software now. For principles.

 

[dunover]

Well then its more evil than I originally thought. On average it will eat your entire bankroll quicker (spin for spin) than DoA yet doesn't have the big wins. That's on the verge of being mathematically impossible.

Yes, I concur with that. Most reel wins are pathetic on CFTBL and it has a seriously messed-up paytable that pays 'mediium' wins less often than DoA pays 2500x for 5 scatters. Netent really have hit the holy grail of almost guaranteeing the player loses while still paying somehow 95%. It's fiendishly clever and I'm glad it has been noticed.

 

[Balthazar]

Is it possible to put an entire software onto the 'not recommended' list?

Well, they have done it with Rival.

 

[zreb]

People really seem to be latching onto everything they possibly can here to blame NetEnt for their results, and most of it is pretty poorly founded. Having a bunch of data is useless if you don't know how to interpret it.

First of all, the variance of CFTBL is NOT higher than the variance for Dead or Alive. The variance kktmd measured for CFTBL, 160 coins, is based on a 20 coin bet - a variance of 8x the wager amount. The variance measured for DOA is 150 on a 9 coin bet - 16.66x the wager amount. 8x makes for a fairly high variance slot, but 16.66x is pretty enormous. Even if you were making 20 cent bets on CFTBL and 9 cent bets on DOA, the variance per dollar wagered on DOA would still be like 50% higher.

It's also really tough to say much from the graph kktmd posted. We're looking from a zoomed-out enough perspective that makes 500x wins look insignificant. If someone is looking at hundreds of thousands of spins, most slots are going to look like a depressing downward trend of losses. And the variance that kktmd did experience seems to be about 1% below the true RTP - about 100,000 coins. So unless we're accusing NetEnt of lying about the true RTP, we still don't have a representative sample. It's actually pretty hard to get 1000-2000x up on most slots, even over 10s of thousands of spins, and that would still only look like a small blip on the graph.

And some of the complaints here don't really make any sense. You can't simultaneously argue that:
1. The slot pays the true rtp (i.e., is not rigged, usually 96.5% or so)
2. The slot gives lots of dead spins.
3. The slot doesn't provide many reasonable sized wins.

These can't all be true at the same time for a random slot. Either it's high variance and gives you a chance at occasional wins - but little average playtime. Or the opposite - low variance, high playtime, but low chance of a substantial win. It can't both provide no playtime and no big wins. This is of course assuming the slots aren't compensated, which I also haven't seen much evidence for.

In my own opinion, some of the NetEnt releases have been pretty terrible (the low variance ones), but others are perfectly fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with CFTBL in particular - I think it's actually a pretty fairly designed slot. The casino makes its profit the more times you churn through your money - that means a slot with dead spins is actually good for you. It's just a bit on the high variance side, while not being as extreme as something like DoA. 1000x wins are actually an extreme rarity on most slots.

I think it's great that people here are looking into things and trying to make sure the games are fair and provide players a reasonable chance of winning, but let's take a little bit of care and not start shooting at everything that moves. There needs to be a clear idea that can be tested to find out anything useful. That's probably all I'll say on this though - NetEnt's got money to represent themselves if they felt like it, no reason I should defend them if they don't care.

 

[Balthazar]

the variance of CFTBL is NOT higher than the variance for Dead or Alive. The variance kktmd measured for CFTBL, 160 coins, is based on a 20 coin bet - a variance of 8x the wager amount. The variance measured for DOA is 150 on a 9 coin bet - 16.66x the wager amount.

If the standard deviation is expressed in coins then that's a good point.

It can't both provide no playtime and no big wins.

Starburst? Space Wars? Twin Spins? Eggomatic? Fisticuffs? Silent Run? MAGIC PORTALS?! REEL RUSH?

I don't think there's anything wrong with CFTBL in particular - I think it's actually a pretty fairly designed slot.

How would you know? You're Canadian and we can't play it.

 

[dionysus]

If the standard deviation is expressed in coins then that's a good point.




Oh, that it can!! Have you ever played starburst or space wars?




How would you know? You're Canadian and we can't play it.

don't be so sure about that

 

[Nate]

I wouldn't go as far as questioning the randomness of the slot but I assure you i have had pretty much enough of real money play to deduce the following:

1. Early hits are the best to get you ahead on this game.

2. The Slot is pathetically brutal and rips through 200 - 300x bet easily (the odd 20 - 50x here and there but never enough to bring you level)

3. 8 out of 10 times I never recovered at all.

4. Biggest feature hits were around 740x bet and 680x bet respectively - Both 4 Scatter triggers.

5. Lowest Feature wins were even lower than my trigger bet for the free spins on multiple occasions.

6. Biggest hits in the Base game were around the 100x to 200x not frequent but better than FS hits.

7. Overall I'm losing badly - My last 2 sessions (Start Balance of $500 with $2 bets) and (Start Balance of $700 with $2 bets) gone in a flash.

I tend to agree with the general thought. We are all LONG time gamblers and understand variance pretty well. Maybe the variance isn't as bad as DOA, maybe it is? The one think I can state is that the Slot does not pay well and actually reduces playing time significantly IMPO. Dead spells are horrendous but very common. For me, it doesn't justify playing the Slot. There WILL be a big hit or 2 but alas play it frequent enough and you'll see what im talking about .

Nate

 

[dunover]

The problems aren't necessarily the product of high/higher variance but gameplay which is a product of the paytable set-up. If we take into consideration the MG games kktmd ran (IR and TSII) the frequency of medium (100x-500x) and large (500x +) wins are greater, but also the 'stake maintaining wins' (i.e. 15-40x stake) are far more frequent and can often overlap and produce profitable sessions alone. Obviously the huge prizes on DoA will eliminate that possibility as the RTP is weighted for those wins. In between rewards of 1-2 x stake are very frequent to keep you playing for a sensible period which may yield one of those huge win multiples.
CFTBL seems to have a unique way of paying fractions of a stake or nothing for long spells, and doesn't have the huge multiple potential of DoA. As Zreb said, it can't be all of those things at once otherwise it couldn't meet the RTP, so it compensates with mostly low-yield bonus rounds of <250x stake and frequently less than the scatter trigger amount as Nate says. The end result is 8/10 times you are playing catch-up and soon realize that unlike DoA you are past the point where getting the potential 'mega' bonus round would refund your stake or put you in profit. Example, you only need (like I did) to be £70 down on 20p stakes very quickly, and soon realize that a very rare 300x plus will be necessary to redeem the situation. On DoA an equally rare hit would produce a profit.

 

[theapple]

If the standard deviation is expressed in coins then that's a good point.




Starburst? Space Wars? Twin Spins? Eggomatic? Fisticuffs? Silent Run? MAGIC PORTALS?! REEL RUSH?




How would you know? You're Canadian and we can't play it.

magic portals? really? i guess im the only one who think that slot is just one pile of %#($. and even reel rush is capped to 50ish x bets most of the time in free spins (not saying its impossible to hit higher, its just that my usual 'good' free spin session ends up with ~40x bet).

 

[KasinoKing]

magic portals? really? i guess im the only one who think that slot is just one pile of %#($.

I think Balt was saying he thinks they are ALL sh*t.

I don't agree with that personally, Space Wars and Twin Spin ARE shite, but the others can be OK from time to time. I think it's all about expectations - I know they are all low variance and that I should never expect too get any BIG wins from them, but they can be fun to play and reasonable sized wins & modest profits are a possibility.
My favourite off that list is Egg O'matic - the free-spins can be egg-citing and re-triggers are more common that most other slots. (Mind you, recently it's not been great for me... Bad Eggs!)

KK

 

[incrediblestuff]

I think Balt was saying he thinks they are ALL sh*t.

I don't agree with that personally, Space Wars and Twin Spin ARE shite, but the others can be OK from time to time. I think it's all about expectations - I know they are all low variance and that I should never expect too get any BIG wins from them, but they can be fun to play and reasonable sized wins & modest profits are a possibility.
My favourite off that list is Egg O'matic - the free-spins can be egg-citing and re-triggers are more common that most other slots. (Mind you, recently it's not been great for me... Bad Eggs!)

KK

@KK: To which i then could honestly reply,that it is exactly the opposite for me: i really like Twin spin and Space Wars alot, and Although i do not dislike Egg-O, it has been the most unkind to me of that list...

Anyway, my point on the discussions in general (new slots and such) is that we always see a lot of complaint-like stories, and a lot of opinions naturally biased by different experiences per player, however a lot of those players seem to have a hard time to differentiate biased opinions from facts, and express themselves poorly as such ^^ (like saying it is shite instead of i find it a shitty slot)

Which is not a big deal really, but when coming from the more experienced members it might give newbies the wrong impression, as they might sooner take just their word for it and miss out on... whatnot.
I just would like to see less complaining in general, and on that note will give my an example of my own idea of slot/Casino feedback:

I have been playing a lot of Play & Go slots lately and have come to the conclusion that although most of their
slots seem to often have a familiar theming, they did manage to make a nice palette of slots which have in my opinion just the right mix between high and low variance, the ultimate mediium variance if you will: lots of playtime in general, and the accidental huge hit included in the paytable. I find their music choices very appealing, but that is of course not for all, in my personal opinion they come to close to WMS on occasion, which is pretty much my favourite winning music

My absolute favourite would be Energoonz, which has the theming of Space Wars with cool music (especially in Freespins), the reels of Gonzo's Quest, combined with Tetris and a very interesting bonus game which has huge hits possible in both base game and bonus, and taking my own extensive play on it as reference, it really gives a lot of playtime.
I really reccomend it, and hope you are as lucky on it as me
The only thing that i found a minus, was the jump in betsizes: you can only play 20 ct./ 1,-/ 2,-/ 10,- and then 40.-...
I would suggest they implement 50 ct. and 5,-, and maybe 20,- too.

Anyway Play&Go has my thumbs up

On topic: TCFTBL looks pretty nice in terms of graphics and atmosphere, but i seen it lag a lot on a few computers during the bonusgame, so without a high speed internet and pretty decent PC you might feel that very differently, it also hasn't been kind to me really, but i can see the hitpotential, and would lump this slot in my "occasional" list: perfect for a little relaxing stroll when i am up, and want a change from my favourites. (sometimes you have played them all too much - be it that session or the whole week)

End Note:
I think every slot that is heavily criticised as of late (basically all of the recent Netent releases and a few new MG slots as well) has it's own charm: not every slot can be appealing to everybody, and even though someone can hate Playboy, yet love Immortal Romance, where they are pretty much similar, they can have terrible luck on it regardless, and perhaps they would have won their lifetime biggest hit on the one they didn't play purely because the theme wasn't in their taste.

Not that that matters, but i am just saying, that trying a lot of slots will increase you odds of finding a nice list of favourites, and just going by a few opinions here and there from others, and then chucking in a half-assed attempt as personal test, can disfigure the total experience a lot.

(poorly expressed that last sentence but this post is becoming too long so i need to stop and i figure people will get what i am saying anyway )

 

[Nate]

Anyway, my point on the discussions in general (new slots and such) is that we always see a lot of complaint-like stories, and a lot of opinions naturally biased by different experiences per player, however a lot of those players seem to have a hard time to differentiate biased opinions from facts, and express themselves poorly as such ^^ (like saying it is shite instead of i find it a shitty slot)

Which is not a big deal really, but when coming from the more experienced members it might give newbies the wrong impression, as they might sooner take just their word for it and miss out on... whatnot.
I just would like to see less complaining in general, and on that note will give my an example of my own idea of slot/Casino feedback:

I totally disagree with this sentiment. Your own idea is sugar coating your experience in your feedback example.

My views are not biased from facts . My comparisons were accurate i believe and should you doubt them or believe that they are being manipulated to be void of truth so they are influential on others then should I post my stats to prove my opinion was based on actual experience?

Complaining? This is a forum and there should be negative and positive feedback. I absolutely depise hiding the truth or giving a 'sugar coated' opinion because of what others might believe. If i had terrible sessions, constant bad returns then I state it like it is. On the other hand if I have a wonderful time, it will be mentioned likewise.

Nate

 

[Balthazar]

I think Balt was saying he thinks they are ALL sh*t.

Yes and no. I was replying to the "it can't provide no playtime and no big wins" comment. Those games clearly can (and do).

 

[Balthazar]

Anyway, my point on the discussions in general (new slots and such) is that we always see a lot of complaint-like stories, and a lot of opinions naturally biased by different experiences per player, however a lot of those players seem to have a hard time to differentiate biased opinions from facts, and express themselves poorly as such ^^ (like saying it is shite instead of i find it a shitty slot)

That's not true in this case though. It's not an opinion that NetEnt's paytables are constructed in a way that is basically preventing you from withdrawing money.

 

[dunover]

@KK: To which i then could honestly reply,that it is exactly the opposite for me: i really like Twin spin and Space Wars alot, and Although i do not dislike Egg-O, it has been the most unkind to me of that list...

Anyway, my point on the discussions in general (new slots and such) is that we always see a lot of complaint-like stories, and a lot of opinions naturally biased by different experiences per player, however a lot of those players seem to have a hard time to differentiate biased opinions from facts, and express themselves poorly as such ^^ (like saying it is shite instead of i find it a shitty slot)

Which is not a big deal really, but when coming from the more experienced members it might give newbies the wrong impression, as they might sooner take just their word for it and miss out on... whatnot.
I just would like to see less complaining in general, and on that note will give my an example of my own idea of slot/Casino feedback:

I have been playing a lot of Play & Go slots lately and have come to the conclusion that although most of their
slots seem to often have a familiar theming, they did manage to make a nice palette of slots which have in my opinion just the right mix between high and low variance, the ultimate mediium variance if you will: lots of playtime in general, and the accidental huge hit included in the paytable. I find their music choices very appealing, but that is of course not for all, in my personal opinion they come to close to WMS on occasion, which is pretty much my favourite winning music

My absolute favourite would be Energoonz, which has the theming of Space Wars with cool music (especially in Freespins), the reels of Gonzo's Quest, combined with Tetris and a very interesting bonus game which has huge hits possible in both base game and bonus, and taking my own extensive play on it as reference, it really gives a lot of playtime.
I really reccomend it, and hope you are as lucky on it as me
The only thing that i found a minus, was the jump in betsizes: you can only play 20 ct./ 1,-/ 2,-/ 10,- and then 40.-...
I would suggest they implement 50 ct. and 5,-, and maybe 20,- too.

Anyway Play&Go has my thumbs up

On topic: TCFTBL looks pretty nice in terms of graphics and atmosphere, but i seen it lag a lot on a few computers during the bonusgame, so without a high speed internet and pretty decent PC you might feel that very differently, it also hasn't been kind to me really, but i can see the hitpotential, and would lump this slot in my "occasional" list: perfect for a little relaxing stroll when i am up, and want a change from my favourites. (sometimes you have played them all too much - be it that session or the whole week)

End Note:
I think every slot that is heavily criticised as of late (basically all of the recent Netent releases and a few new MG slots as well) has it's own charm: not every slot can be appealing to everybody, and even though someone can hate Playboy, yet love Immortal Romance, where they are pretty much similar, they can have terrible luck on it regardless, and perhaps they would have won their lifetime biggest hit on the one they didn't play purely because the theme wasn't in their taste.

Not that that matters, but i am just saying, that trying a lot of slots will increase you odds of finding a nice list of favourites, and just going by a few opinions here and there from others, and then chucking in a half-assed attempt as personal test, can disfigure the total experience a lot.

(poorly expressed that last sentence but this post is becoming too long so i need to stop and i figure people will get what i am saying anyway )

OK, "I find these slots shite." Because they ARE shite. I think new members would benefit from these opinions and experiments in freeplay we've done and the data produced. Then they can reduce their expectations accordingly. If you like 'death by a thousand cuts' for your deposit, then Netent is for you. Or you may be the exception and get a mega-hit before your deposit runs out and maybe pull a profit. Unfortunately, both in freeplay/data experiments and with our own cash, many of us are saying collectively we couldn't do it. This doesn't mean it's impossible for someone else to but in our combined years of experience we have spotted something a bit different between how Netent slots behave compared to other well-known software.

 

[incrediblestuff]

I totally disagree with this sentiment. Your own idea is sugar coating your experience in your feedback example.

My views are not biased from facts . My comparisons were accurate i believe and should you doubt them or believe that they are being manipulated to be void of truth so they are influential on others then should I post my stats to prove my opinion was based on actual experience?

Complaining? This is a forum and there should be negative and positive feedback. I absolutely depise hiding the truth or giving a 'sugar coated' opinion because of what others might believe. If i had terrible sessions, constant bad returns then I state it like it is. On the other hand if I have a wonderful time, it will be mentioned likewise.

Nate

Mate, i usually like to read your opinions, and feedback, it seems however that you feel spoken to by my post?
It was on a general note, i have said it before, and after countless negative remarks from experienced posters i had to say it again.

Also i don't get what you think i am sugarcoating.. i simply had a very good overall experience on my ventures in the Play&Go sections should i rather negate my positive experience, so i don't look all that enthusiastic, whilst in fact i am?

I absolutely agree that forums are for negative and positive experiences, just make sure to trim opinions from facts, don't mix it up or it will lead to misunderstandings to say the least. And as much as i like crude jokes and such, i somehow like crudeness less when it is woven into serious feedback, regardless of positive or negative.
I am just saying you can preesent a negative opinion without demonizing the subject.

That's not true in this case though. It's not an opinion that NetEnt's paytables are constructed in a way that is basically preventing you from withdrawing money.

That could pretty much be said from most Providers, all of them are trying to make the perfect slot for them, which would appeal to almost anyone, and makes you lose your money with a silly grin on your face<--
Saying Netent's paytables are constructed like that is a crude generalization of sorts, and it is definitely not a fact

I know you would like more DOA type slots, but the general public seem to want flashy lights and upbeat sounds, so those slots will also keep coming, and i would also like to note, that on pretty much all those newer slots i had more bad results then good, but that is to be expected in gambling, as we all know..
Anyway, my last three withdrawals, were all on Everymatrix solutions, and respectively only possible through big wins or good streaks on Secret of the Stones, Twin Spin and yes.. Magic Portals
I reckon some of us already tried the slots they didn't like enough to get a real sample, more then 20.000 spins at least, but i also think that some people just "talk along" after a measly attempt on their part, i bet if they all really made the same effort, and put in the same amount of spins, they would have to adjust their "facts".

OK, "I find these slots shite." Because they ARE shite. I think new members would benefit from these opinions and experiments in freeplay we've done and the data produced. Then they can reduce their expectations accordingly. If you like 'death by a thousand cuts' for your deposit, then Netent is for you. Or you may be the exception and get a mega-hit before your deposit runs out and maybe pull a profit. Unfortunately, both in freeplay/data experiments and with our own cash, many of us are saying collectively we couldn't do it. This doesn't mean it's impossible for someone else to but in our combined years of experience we have spotted something a bit different between how Netent slots behave compared to other well-known software.

I totally agree with the bolded part, but as i was saying much of the feedback is not underlined by such experiments or data.
The only ones that have done that a few times are you and Chopley on DOA, and kktmd and Blataon on a few more slots.
At least that are the posts i recall, i might have missed a few.
I really appreciate those experiments and posts, and know the effort it takes so i always thank them for their effort.
However even those results are not binding, they don't even cover the whole scale of possibilites in terms of RTP% the slots might display. Fun note is that in almost all cases the data derived all points to the expected RTP as advertised being correct.

You can die the dead of a thousand cuts, or land in the hell of the upside down hanging bodies in pretty much every software. My own last year was terrible, save for one huge hit, from which i played most back , and i think i went through the whole spctrum of the 1001 Chinese hells of the sinners, but i experienced it on MG, Netent, and 3Dice.

I also think the slots from different providers behave differently, but isn't that the point?
It called variation, and that is not a bad thing per-se. In pretty much all the bigger providers there are machines with life changing wins, machines with high entertainment value, and also the average money eater, and everything in between.

 

[Nate]

Mate, i usually like to read your opinions, and feedback, it seems however that you feel spoken to by my post?
It was on a general note, i have said it before, and after countless negative remarks from experienced posters i had to say it again.

Also i don't get what you think i am sugarcoating.. i simply had a very good overall experience on my ventures in the Play&Go sections should i rather negate my positive experience, so i don't look all that enthusiastic, whilst in fact i am?

I absolutely agree that forums are for negative and positive experiences, just make sure to trim opinions from facts, don't mix it up or it will lead to misunderstandings to say the least. And as much as i like crude jokes and such, i somehow like crudeness less when it is woven into serious feedback, regardless of positive or negative.
I am just saying you can preesent a negative opinion without demonizing the subject.

Obviously when you refer to experienced members, I am one that had negative feedback - Does it refer to me? Maybe... Maybe not. However:

You specifically said "I just would like to see less complaining in general, and on that note will give my an example of my own idea of slot/Casino feedback:" - The review that followed is sugar coating my friend. By complaining less and just having a general overview does not give much insight into how the Slot plays, the variance and what to generally expect.

When does actual experience fail to become fact? So i have a run with a 40% RTP - Is that not fact or does it now become opinion? For the record I have done much more than 20k worth of spins.

In general when products are released to the public, they should be open to any and all scrutiny. I do not believe that people are demonizing the subject. I believe that it accurately reflects sentiments to the trends that NetEnt specifically choose to follow.

I actually stated that I think its their best release, how they coded the paytable is another story altogether.

Nate

 

[gagamel]

OK, "I find these slots shite." Because they ARE shite. I think new members would benefit from these opinions and experiments in freeplay we've done and the data produced. Then they can reduce their expectations accordingly. If you like 'death by a thousand cuts' for your deposit, then Netent is for you. Or you may be the exception and get a mega-hit before your deposit runs out and maybe pull a profit. Unfortunately, both in freeplay/data experiments and with our own cash, many of us are saying collectively we couldn't do it. This doesn't mean it's impossible for someone else to but in our combined years of experience we have spotted something a bit different between how Netent slots behave compared to other well-known software.

Dear dunover
with all respect. Are you on a crusade against NETENT, or DEADENT as you called the provider?
You and some others had bad experiences with NETENT, maybe five players. But there are a lot more people playing this software and a lot of them are here in this forum. If your experience would be presentable why are not a lot more players here to support your finding?
For myself I can tell you that TCFTBL is crap, boring, HV with a shite payout table. But there are a lot of great slots from NETENT, like Piggy riches, DoA or Gonzo. You can have a lot of playtime and maybe you win big.

No offence but just to make a statement that NETENT designs slots you can`t win is not fair in my eyes.

 

[Jazzbaz]

But there are a lot of great slots from NETENT, like Piggy riches, DoA or Gonzo. You can have a lot of playtime and maybe you win big.

No offence but just to make a statement that NETENT designs slots you can`t win is not fair in my eyes.

The fact that you chose those three kinda re-enforces the whole point of this conversation, what with them all being older slots, with noticeably different kind of slot design philosophy.

And yes, I MUCH prefer those 3, especially DoA and Piggy over any of the garbage introduced over the last 1.5 years.

 

[gagamel]

The fact that you chose those three kinda re-enforces the whole point of this conversation, what with them all being older slots, with noticeably different kind of slot design philosophy.

And yes, I MUCH prefer those 3, especially DoA and Piggy over any of the garbage introduced over the last 1.5 years.

Thank you
I remember the times when MG started with the 243 ways to win/lose slots. A lot of members here in the forum don`t play these slots.
And we have here the same with NETENT slots
In my memory the discussion was the same.

 

[lotusch]

Well Gagamel,let me throw in some fresh data here.
Tonight I deposited €100.00 at CasinoEuro and started playing my favourite WMS and MGS slots and my balance went up to €300.00 in no time lowrolling between €0.30 and €0.90 bets.
Decided to give Netent another chance as I was up a good bit.

Started at Gonzo:
457 spins before feature triggered,balance down to €57.20 and payout was €11.10 on €0.60 bet.

Went back to WMS and hit a nice 140x bet on €0.80 spin on Bierhaus in free spins.

Back to Netent (Wild Turkey).
Over 500!!!! spins before triggering the free spins on €0.50 spins and AGAIN my winnings were nearly gone and they payout? €6.00!!!!! R U kidding me Netent?

Again back to different software (MGS) and hit a €127.30 win fairly soon on TFROL.

Back to Netent:
Twin Spins on €0.75 spins and busted out with a highest win of 11x bet.

So 3 times in 1 session I was able to maintain my balance and get some winnings but when switching to Netent it took my money as usual as usual as usual.

And I wish to say that this was seriously my last time trying any Netent slot except for DOA on the odd day.

I have tried so many times at tens of different of casino's to play Netent and it is absolute and utter crap they produce.
The worst software i.m.o out there at the moment paywise.

And yes,I am honest to say I really hate Netent as they never ever paid me out a decent win.
And I mean never ever!
No matter what slot I played and believe me I have tried them all.

So is it allowed for people to dislike Netent slots?

I am sure they are delivering legit slots for the online market but for me personally they are a bunch of robbers.
WMS?
MGS?
Playtech?
Greentube/Novomatic?
IGT?

All of those platforms provided me with one or more 1000x or more stake wins.

Netent?
Maybe I won 150x-200x on the odd day and I cant remember when those hits occured tbh.

Netent = Crap.

And online gambling for me is to relax and have a good time,no matter if I win or lose but with Netent I feel I am being robbed while watching,no entertainment value at all...

/Rant off :nod:

 

[Balthazar]

In my memory the discussion was the same.

If someone ever said that it's impossible to win with MGS' 243-way slots he is/was an idiot.

I'm not sure if you guys just refuse to see it or simply don't understand, but it's not about having a bad session or a "shitty slot", it's about having paytables designed in a way that it makes it nearly impossible to withdraw money while still being random and paying the full RTP.

Would you play a slot that returns 99% of your bet on every single spin? You'd get a 99% RTP but you'd never win. That's what it's all about with recent NetEnt slots (albeit a bit less obvious).

I don't blindly hate on NetEnt BTW, their slots are the most fun to play. JatB is in my top 5 slots of all time, with the #1 most exciting bonus round bar none. DoA owns the 1000x+ screenshot thread, etc.

Decided to give Netent another chance as I was up a good bit.

With all due respect, those stats mean nothing. You can have a bad session like that on any software.

 

[tinybettor]

The thing with these newer Netent slots is that you sort of have to play at a bigger stake than normal if you want to capitalise on any sort of streaks given the nature of it's big win wins compared to MG. And these streaks are bloody rare I tell ya!. With MG I can get a dozen hits over 100x bet in a given timeframe whereas with Netent, I'd be lucky to win one of that size. And with my personal experiences, the newer Netent slots such as CFTBL and SOTS can just get as equally cold compared to the highest variance 243 way MG slots where you'd go 400x bet deposit with no bonus rounds in sight. So combine a crappy pay-table with the implemented distribution of wins and your going to have 9/10 sessions where you'll probably never reach any state of profitability.

Here's some data for you. I just made three deposits this week of $100, played Playboy and a few other MG slots at 60c and got up to $200-$300. After this I move to Netent and play JATBS and SOTS at $1. Every-time I'm struggling to get a bonus round and my money just goes in the blink of any eye without any sniff of a win greater than 30x bet. In the end I eventually bust getting one bonus round on Jack for 5x bet and one on SOTS for 20x.

These three deposits already add to a 3k net loss in the prior two weeks just playing Netent betting at $1-$1.5. In that period of ~20000 spins or so I've only got one 300x winner to show for it which brought that session's balance slightly over its original amount where-after the slots proceeded to spin me dry constantly giving "big wins" of 20-50x bet then immediately gobbling back up 100x bet . Rinse and repeat this over the session and my balance never gets to a point where I can cashout a decent profit (unless $10 profit is good for you?).

Now imagine this over 20 deposits or so and you can tell why some of us here are disappointed and frustrated. This was my first proper foray into Netent and probably my last. I've said it multiple times in the past that I'm done but my sympathetic character combined with the addictive nature of Netent's slots got the better of me. My mistake and one that I have dearly paid for.

 

[Wild Reels]

what i find unusual with these small sessions that people post, if net ent is literally robbing them blind and they are winning great wins on wms and microgaming, why are they switching to a provider which they they cant win on and losing it all, if this was happening to me id stick to wms and mg as they are obviously money printing machines in comparison

i dare say if you ran 1.5 million spins on any slot, you would get similar results, by design they are supposed to win in the end, i know people are looking for peaks and troughs in the graphs and some sort of exit oppurtunity after a big win, and peoples small sessions will replicate those , ive had some fantastic runs on cftbl and likewise some god awful ones, its not nice to wait 500 spins for a terrible bonus round, but it is a game where in 1 spin in the base game you can 50x then 100x then 150x then 200x if the stacked wilds keep coming, they can be brutal though, but even games like the much played doa do the same on 99% of my sessions, the bonus rounds are a dissapoinment, ranging from 5x to 10x, the bankroll steadily decreases until it hits 0, then once in a blue mooon it churns out a 1000x win and we are all happy again

 

[dunover]

DoA is an old release and does what it says on the tin so to speak. You know what you are getting, and the slot is something to have a small dabble on if you have a spare 30 quid or similar, to see if you can hit a major win - that's what it's all about.
Turd From The Unflushed Toilet (TFTUT), Smeg-o-matic, St*rb*rst and Twit Spit are abominations IMO. Each has the characteristic of often 20 spins dead or with fractions of a credit in pays, which gives you the impression the variance is higher, and subliminally you expect to hit a 'balancing' win of a few hundred x stake. Unfortunately you seldom do, and if you do it always seems to be at a point that means you'll still be substantially in debit anyway.
As someone said above, imagine playing a slot which paid 95% EVERY spin, the ultimate low variance slot. The tedium and futility of that. With these latter releases transpose that idea and imagine an average of 0.2 credits per spin so you can see you are running well under the TRTP. So, naturally on random slots this trough will eventually lead to a peak. Only this 'peak' never quite seems to repay you even to 95% so you are only 5% down overall. Later on, after many deposits and higher losses (this seems borne out by the test-playing) you get a decent peak which by then most players will have quit in disappointment or run out of funds.
It's difficult to put a finger on how it's done, but there is certainly something odd about their games at the moment.

 

[Wild Reels]

theres alot of net ent slots i dont touch for that very reason, but im still a fan of creture even if its been brutal at times to me, ive also had some brilliant wins.

as far as net ents ethos they have it plastered over their site

A key reason why the Net Entertainment Casino™ is generating higher returns is our first class gaming experience combined with a high Return-to-Player (RTP) strategy whereby the return to players are higher than from competing solutions. By offering players a pay-out in the region of 95-97 percent the player lifetime is prolonged and the Average Revenue Per User (ARPU) is increased.

 

[asadzareef89]

DoA is an old release and does what it says on the tin so to speak. You know what you are getting, and the slot is something to have a small dabble on if you have a spare 30 quid or similar, to see if you can hit a major win - that's what it's all about.
Turd From The Unflushed Toilet (TFTUT), Smeg-o-matic, St*rb*rst and Twit Spit are abominations IMO. Each has the characteristic of often 20 spins dead or with fractions of a credit in pays, which gives you the impression the variance is higher, and subliminally you expect to hit a 'balancing' win of a few hundred x stake. Unfortunately you seldom do, and if you do it always seems to be at a point that means you'll still be substantially in debit anyway.
As someone said above, imagine playing a slot which paid 95% EVERY spin, the ultimate low variance slot. The tedium and futility of that. With these latter releases transpose that idea and imagine an average of 0.2 credits per spin so you can see you are running well under the TRTP. So, naturally on random slots this trough will eventually lead to a peak. Only this 'peak' never quite seems to repay you even to 95% so you are only 5% down overall. Later on, after many deposits and higher losses (this seems borne out by the test-playing) you get a decent peak which by then most players will have quit in disappointment or run out of funds.
It's difficult to put a finger on how it's done, but there is certainly something odd about their games at the moment.

Great explanation and I would for one agree with you 100% as I played the slot CFTBL quite a bit after seeing few nice hits on WS after its release and was impressed and looked like it can be a winner after ages. Yet after i played it, first the bonus round seems impossible to hit and when you do, you can get max 20x wins

Betsafe - 2000 spins (1 Bonus round -> paid 10x bet)
Guts - relatively less spins (2 Bonus rounds -> 20x bet and 0.5x bet)
and story on everywhere was the same except on jetbull where i had one nice hit after hundreds of spins of 80x bet

Now i know people will say they are really small number of spins to evaluate but when your credit runs out within 100-200 spins you can't do much more spins so I have given up on Netent slots except occasional few spins on DOA and Gonzo, PS i think you can tell a lot about a slot if u dont even hit 20x stake in the base game in 2000 spins

Also DOA when on bonus shortage does cough up few wins with 5 hats and 5 beer glasses whereas CFTBL just gives you useless wilds and no noticeable wins

 

[lotusch]

With all due respect, those stats mean nothing. You can have a bad session like that on any software.

True,except this happens to me all the time when playing Netent.
It is just a never ending streak of bad sessions and that sir,is no coincidence anymore.

 

[mrmark21]

True,except this happens to me all the time when playing Netent.
It is just a never ending streak of bad sessions and that sir,is no coincidence anymore.

Netent *shudders*. I'd be tempted to play them but I closed all my Netent accounts for that exact reason. Money rescued from those evil Netent slots

Noticed your little winning streak. Glad to see you finally win something!

 

[Balthazar]

True,except this happens to me all the time when playing Netent.
It is just a never ending streak of bad sessions and that sir,is no coincidence anymore.

It's only true for the newer games though. If you stick to DoA, Reel Steal and JatB you'll win (and have the chance to cash out) as often as other high variance games on other softwares.

On a side note, if someone could do the stats for Thunderfist that would be pretty awesome. That's one older game that have a huge potential for big wins but I'm not sure how often you can get them.

 

[The Viking]

My best hit versus mutliplier 1400x the bet, unlike some here this is actually one of my fav games around

 

[Nate]

Very Nice Hit!

I actually like the Slot very much - Don't like the pay table. I've done 10's of thousands of spins and not once hit anything more than 700x.

Its extremely streaky and the payouts don't justify the streaks or variance IMPO.

Let me not detract from the fact that you hit a nice and very rare one there - WTG!

Nate

 

[gokkie]

Actually, it is one of my favourites together with secret of the stones.
However, I had some horrible runs at it. I think from the last 100 features, almost 80% is below 10xbet. Also I had a huge numer of free spin rounds that pay between 0 and 5xbet even on 4 scatters.

It has destroyed my bankroll a number of times on disgusting runs. Still I like it because there is potential.....but it is a sicko

 

[dunover]

My best hit versus mutliplier 1400x the bet, unlike some here this is actually one of my fav games around

Nice to see someone actually flush the toilet and wave goodbye to the turd.......

Insane hit, shame only 40p stake.