Mr Green's uncool ten percent rule

[243 lines=daft]

Having started to play NetEnt a little more recently, I decided 'okay it's time to join Mr Green' as they seems to have some cracking incentives.

But while reading the T&Cs I was a bit alarmed by this..

3.6. If you win EURO €100,000 or more, we reserve the right to divide the payout into ten installments, paid with 10 per cent every month for 10 months until the full amount is paid out.
3.7. You will not get any interest on outstanding amounts and you shall not treat the Company as a financial institution.

This appears to cover both regular wins and progressives? (As far as I can see and I'm fairly sure I've gone through all the terms)

So (example) if I play Arabian Nights and hit the current 846 grand jackpot, the casino hang onto over 750k and feed that through in monthly chunks, interest free, over almost a year..
Is that the case and if so is that acceptable on here when CM has come down so hard on the Playtech casinos that dripfeed progressive wins?

(If I have missed something crucial in the T and Cs then apologies in advance).

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Any Casino should pay the WHOLE amount instant to anyone no matter what. Anything else is just BS IMHO. They are fine taking money from players and millions every month

 

[dunover]

Having started to play NetEnt a little more recently, I decided 'okay it's time to join Mr Green' as they seems to have some cracking incentives.

But while reading the T&Cs I was a bit alarmed by this..

3.6. If you win EURO €100,000 or more, we reserve the right to divide the payout into ten installments, paid with 10 per cent every month for 10 months until the full amount is paid out.
3.7. You will not get any interest on outstanding amounts and you shall not treat the Company as a financial institution.

This appears to cover both regular wins and progressives? (As far as I can see and I'm fairly sure I've gone through all the terms)

So (example) if I play Arabian Nights and hit the current 846 grand jackpot, the casino hang onto over 750k and feed that through in monthly chunks, interest free, over almost a year..
Is that the case and if so is that acceptable on here when CM has come down so hard on the Playtech casinos that dripfeed progressive wins?

(If I have missed something crucial in the T and Cs then apologies in advance).

Well, that is bit disconcerting - many sites have similar rules but not over 10 months, maybe 5/10k a week etc. Even then, most of those sites specify "this DOES NOT apply to progressives" (for the simple reason that they don't need to apply it as the progressives aren't paid by themselves anyway) so yes, we do need the rep to clarify whether the casino is referring to money they are responsible for paying themselves.
If this does indeed apply to progressives too then I agree, they become no better than the 'not recommended' Playtechs that pull this stunt.
But before we batter poor old Mr.Green let's hear the rep's answer...

 

[Mouche12]

3.7. You will not get any interest on outstanding amounts and you shall not treat the Company as a financial institution.

They'd rather treat the Players as a Financial Institution Good thinking!

 

[Tirilej]

I know that this rule have been up for discussion earlier but I couldn't find which thread it was in.

If I at least had remembered the reason they had the rule it wouldn't matter.
I know. I'm getting old ...but if anyone else want to search then they will find...maybe

 

[jetset]

This is in my opinion an unfair T&C that prejudices the player, and it's difficult to think of any acceptable reason for an operator to have this anti-player sort of T&C....but let's hear what the rep has to say.

 

[chayton]

So (example) if I play Arabian Nights and hit the current 846 grand jackpot, the casino hang onto over 750k and feed that through in monthly chunks, interest free, over almost a year..
Is that the case and if so is that acceptable on here when CM has come down so hard on the Playtech casinos that dripfeed progressive wins?

At this casino you'd get $84.6K per month for 10 months and be done. If you won that same amount at one of those Playtech casinos that pay $9K/month, in that first 10 months, Playtech would have only paid you $90K. (heh math skills) To get paid in full would take 94 months - almost 8 years.

I don't like the idea of progressives jackpots not being paid in full, but there are a couple of accredited casinos that have this term too. Bryan said something like 'progressives paid in full or in reasonable chunks' - getting paid over the course of 10 payments might qualify as 'reasonable chunks'.

But we're jumping the gun here anyhow, that might not even be the case here as the term may not even apply to progressive wins.

As for big non-progressive wins, I don't think it's unreasonable to get paid in installments - lots of casinos have a maximum monthly withdrawal, so 10% of a big win seems better than getting stuck with a set amount every month. At least you know you'll be paid in full within a year.

 

[maphesto]

From MrGreen's BBF thread (2011)

I have a question.

This is from your T&C :

"If you win EURO €100,000 or more, we will divide the payout into ten installments, paid with 10 per cent every month for 10 months until the full amount is paid out. You will not get any interest on outstanding amounts."

This is the first time I have seen a Net Entertainment casino who pays progressive jackpots / big wins in installments. I understand it may be necessary for those who win big on your WagerWorks games, since it is software based.

My question. Will this T&C also apply for those who win on your NetEnt games and if so, why have you chosen this practice ?

Regarding big winnings, as Bryan was mention, this is a provider decision. When it comes to big winnings (besides of bigger winnings from IGT) we pay out the full amount straight away.

Best regards,
Mr Green- Jonas

And yes, Jonas was their rep here at CM then.

 

[AndyB-MrGreen]

Hi folks

This must be a legacy from when the T&Cs were first written.
Back then paying a few 100k wins out in one go could have caused a bit of a dent I'm sure, so Mr Green put in a term in case there was a bit of a "run on the bank".

I don't think this has ever been enforced, certainly not these days.

I'll speak to our legal team to see if they're happy to remove it.

Edit: There's no way this would ever have applied to jackpots by the way.

Cheers!
Andy

 

[maphesto]

Hi folks

This must be a legacy from when the T&Cs were first written.
Back then paying a few 100k wins out in one go could have caused a bit of a dent I'm sure, so Mr Green put in a term in case there was a bit of a "run on the bank".

I don't think this has ever been enforced, certainly not these days.

I'll speak to our legal team to see if they're happy to remove it.

Edit: There's no way this would ever have applied to jackpots by the way.

Cheers!
Andy

I think the terms are the exact ones at Garbo as well, they probably copied your terms. Maybe you can tell them to remove it too?

 

[243 lines=daft]

Great to get such a fast and clear response Andy.
It's particularly good to know you are not one of the casinos that pays progressives in chunks!
Please do see if you can get a wee update in the T and Cs as you suggested, as especially in the case of big progressives I'd rather play where the terms are clearly stated before hitting that elusive lifechanger.


On the more general discussion..
On Chayton's point about 'reasonable chunks' for progressive pays (referring to ALL online casinos) I have to say I'm in the same camp as jetset and PaaskeDKnowUK on this one.
I just don't think there's such a thing as reasonable chunks when it comes to handing across a progressive as it's simply not the house's money to hold.
A gives B money to give to C. There is no reason why B should not just hand it across.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Great to get such a fast and clear response Andy.
It's particularly good to know you are not one of the casinos that pays progressives in chunks!
Please do see if you can get a wee update in the T and Cs as you suggested, as especially in the case of big progressives I'd rather play where the terms are clearly stated before hitting that elusive lifechanger.


On the more general discussion..
On Chayton's point about 'reasonable chunks' for progressive pays (referring to ALL online casinos) I have to say I'm in the same camp as jetset and PaaskeDKnowUK on this one.
I just don't think there's such a thing as reasonable chunks when it comes to handing across a progressive as it's simply not the house's money to hold.
A gives B money to give to C. There is no reason why B should not just hand it across.

"reasonable chunks" should be what the processing systems at the casino and user's ends can cope with, not something the casino uses so as to have use of, and gain interest from, the players' winnings.

For example, for some members, Neteller has a limit as to how much balance you can have on the account. Receiving a win greater than this might cause Neteller to go into "verification mode" on the customer, asking for extra documents, explanations, or even freezing the account temporarily. It might then be helpful for the player to have a mutually agreed instalment plan so that as one goes in, a sum can be withdrawn from Neteller and into their bank, ensuring compliance with the account limits on Neteller. Neteller seem to have modified this policy somewhat, but even before this, as a VIP my £30,000 limit was raised to some £125,000. My first even big win of some £50,000 was at a time when Neteller placed a £30,000 limit on my account, so I intentionally withdrew in instalments in order to avoid any potential bother from Neteller.

I have in the past been asked by Neteller to "explain the nature of my transactions" as well as provide up to date documentation, which seemed odd as it should be "bleedin' obvious" what the nature was because I ONLY used the account for playing online casinos. It was this that made me worried about taking the big win in one go and exceeding my account limit.

Now, as Platinum VIP at Neteller, I don't see any overall limits, just individual transaction limits dependent on method used. I could still have a problem with a big progressive though, as the limit per bank transfer from Neteler is £125,000, which means it could take some while for me to move a Mega Moolah £3 million from Neteller to my bank, and I would expect my bank to be asking questions about the money too. However, I would probably prefer the £3 million to be in Neteller and fully under my control than fed by instalments fully under the casino's control.