More Neteller delays

[jetset]

ANOTHER HIATUS IN NETELLER SAGA

US Attorney's office still undecided on whether to indict Isle of Man e-wallet founders.

If readers thought that the February 14 court date set in the case against Canadian Neteller founders Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre would produce new information they were disappointed. As USA Today reported, the waiting game for thousands of U.S. patrons with money tied up in the Isle of Man based online payment service currently under federal investigation just got longer.

The U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York extended the deadline until March 16 to decide whether to indict the co-founders of Neteller, an Internet money-transfer service popular among gamblers. Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre were arrested in January on a charge of conspiracy to transfer funds with the intent to promote illegal gambling

For U.S. customers of the site, it was another delay in their efforts to retrieve their money, which remains in Neteller segregated accounts until the legal issues are resolved.

Neteller says U.S. authorities have frozen access to about $55 million in U.S.-based accounts.

"As a result of the restrictions placed by third parties, court-ordered seizures and related legal concerns, (Neteller) is unable to make payments to U.S. customers," says a posting on the company's website.

FBI agent Neil Donovan has said funds are being held in court as potential evidence. He did not provide a timetable on when customers may get their money back.

 

[jetset]

Adding a little more information to the above material:

The case against Neteller founders John Lefebvre and Steven Lawrence has been delayed.

Though a date was set for 14 February for a preliminary hearing, and the clerk of the federal courthouse at Pearl Street New York confirmed the defendants names were on the schedule, a judge has yet to be assigned.

Yusill Scribner, spokesperson for the Southern District of New York District Attorney, told eGaming Review that by close of business yesterday [Wednesday 14 Feb.] the government had either to have returned an indictment, set a date for a preliminary hearing, or asked for more time, and that a delay of at least 30 days was anticipated.

A new deadline for an indictment to be filed has now been extended to March 16.

 

[Tester]

Sounds a good sign

When the prosecutors are delaying the hearing, it may indicate that there is some chance for the case to end up with a compromise.

But things do change in those kind of negotiations pretty quickly.

 

[jetset]

More jobs cut at Neteller

NETELLER CUTS MORE JOBS

Canadian and UK employees axed

Neteller plc continues to feel the consequences of US legislative and enforcer activities this week, and has announced that it plans to cut 250 jobs as part of its withdrawal from the US market.

The Isle of Man based e-wallet firm said 220 jobs will go at its operations in Calgary, Canada, and a further 30 will be lost in the UK. The job cuts will reduce Neteller's total workforce to 425, substantially down from a peak of 1 000 last year.

Neteller, whose main customers are online gambling firms, decided to pull out of the American market after US enforcers arrested Canadian company founders Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre recently, despite the duo having earlier relinquished all executive responsibilities in the company.

Neteller added that its shares, traded on the London Stock Exchange's junior AIM market, will remain suspended "in view of the continuing uncertainty."

The group reiterated that it expects to take a restructuring charge of US$1.1 million in 2006, rising to US$3.7 million this year.

 

[Tester]

Neteller's press release.
They say they will update as as soon as something changes.

Press Release
NETELLER Group Rationalisation Programme Substantially Complete


16 February 2007 - NETELLER Plc (LSE: NLR), the leading global independent online money transfer business, today issued the following update from its Board of Directors with regard to its principal operations in Calgary, Canada and the UK.

As a result of the Groups voluntary withdrawal from the US market, the Group has substantially completed the necessary reorganisation and restructuring of its operations to reduce its headcount and align related costs with anticipated revenues of its worldwide business.

This rationalisation programme has focused on the Groups Calgary-based operations where the principal teams serving the US market were employed. As previously highlighted, transfer volumes and customer enquiries through the Groups contact centres have decreased substantially since the Group ceased processing transfers for US residents. Staff reductions will total around 220 employees, across all levels, from the Groups contact centre and security teams, as well as related support functions in marketing, processing and IT/product support. Approximately half of the reductions were through the Groups voluntary redundancy programme.

In addition, as part of the rationalisation of the Groups UK facilities, it is expected that around a further 30 redundancies will arise from the relocation of the Groups Gatwick-based operations to Cambridge where they will share premises with the Groups NetBanx business. This move is expected to be completed by the end of March 2007.

Following these staff reductions, the Group will employ approximately 425 staff across its European, Americas and Asia Pacific operations, down from a peak of over 1,000 during 2006. A further part of the Groups rationalisation programme will include a review of the Groups property requirements and may include a sale or partial lease of certain of the Groups Calgary-located facilities. As stated in our trading update of 18 January 2007, the total cash costs associated with staff restructuring are expected to be in the region of US$ 1.1 million in 2006 and a further US$ 3.7 million in 2007.

Ron Martin, Group President and CEO said: The events of the past months have led to challenging times for the Group and the Board has taken these measures to ensure the Group has a sustainable business going forward. We would like to thank all of our employees who have contributed to the growth of the NETELLER business over the past few years, and for those who have left or will be leaving the Group, we wish you well for the future. The Board believes NETELLER continues to have a strong future ahead and presents many exciting opportunities for its employees.

The Groups shares will continue to be suspended from trading on AIM for the time being in view of the continuing uncertainty. Further announcements will be made as appropriate.

from here

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[rhump]

As a result of the Groups voluntary withdrawal from the US market

 

[jetset]

Press release dated today (16 February).

It looks as if there will be some property asset reductions in Calgary, too which is logical following the halving of staff.

It really is a pity to see a thriving company knocked about like this - all for politics and commercial protectionism.

 

[EasyRhino]

To be honest, I feel more sorry for my funds still tied up in neteller, since any delay in the trial of the cofounders could theoretically delay them even further.

It's hard to feel too much emotion for a publicly traded ewallet company, when it comes right down to it.

 

[jetset]

Still, you have to feel some sympathy for 400 - 500 folks who have been shown the door in Calgary and to a lesser extent the UK...joining those axed in locations as disparate as Costa Rica, Gibraltar and India as a result of this DoJ assault on global online gambling.

 

[pokerpal]

Yah, I suppose they were at the top of the game for years before all this legislation crap started happening. From most trusted to this, with all the delays for US oriented transactions, who would of thought one gov't could be so powerful.

 

[casinocide]

Unfortunate but forseeable

This thread reminds me of a conversation I had with a Neteller rep around the time I first discovered payments being declined from merchants back to my Neteller account. It went something like this;

me: I dont know what the heck you guys are doing. You could have at least given some notice so we had a chance to cash out the money we're owed. This is going to cause enormous inconveniences for your customers and a lot of people will be very upset.

agent: It's not our fault. You're government was the one who did this.

me: The government wasn't the one who disallowed payments from merchants.

agent (ignoring my legitimate points): Is there anything else I can help you with?

me: No bud, you better help yourself though. If I were you I would start looking for a new job, like yesterday.

agent: Our business is still strong and our jobs are 100% secure.

me: They told you that? That's not true man. You guys are in trouble and your job is a long way from secure.

agent: We'll see about that.

And seen we have.

 

[sdaddy]

good read

Here is a long but excellent opinion column from MajorWager on this whole Neteller situation:

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The writer sums up a lot of the feelings I have as someone who wanted to give Neteller the benefit of the doubt, but now feels very let down by their actions.

 

[pokerpal]

Alot of information could be missing from all sides...as grandmother used to say..."it will all come out in the wash"...but she also said "bullsh|t baffles brains", smart lady. I can't wait to get my money out, I need to gamble and lose it. The urges man I can't handle it. Sent my proof of dual citizenship the other day, and my utility bill. It shouldnt be long.

 

[jetset]

Good article - this sentence resonated with me because it reflected the indifference with which our own attempts to extract fundamental player-relevant information from Neteller were met:

"I attempted to ensure them that we were all in this mess together, but instead the only thing NETeller provided me over 3 weeks of e-mails, phone calls and live chats was the brush off."

 

[oldandboring40]

i dont know how things are done in the british markets, but i have never seen a stock that had trading suspended as long as neteller and not file chapter 11. i am worried that people in the company may have been skimming off all that money going thru. its a heck of a cash flow and i am sure the temptation is there. a sudden halt to that cash flow that has taken place in the last few weeks would expose such a problem. what would explain the problems that all the non u.s. customers are having? looking uglier by the day.

 

[pokerpal]

I doubt it, its too hollywood. Its not easy to go bankrupt in common wealth countries. I know in the US its probably easy as pie. I think what is happening is just as they are saying... processing delays, brought on by what is in the news these days.

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[jetset]

"i dont know how things are done in the british markets, but i have never seen a stock that had trading suspended as long as neteller....."

That thought occurred to me as well when I read on the latest release (9 February) that the shares were to remain suspended.

We have members here who are involved in this side of business in the UK - perhaps one of them could comment on how long a company can suspend its shares before the stock exchange steps in?

 

[soflat]

People thought Neteller was safe. It wasn't. And no ewallet is safe. Click2Pay is almost just as bad and will probably end up like NT. I won't use an ewallet again.

The DOJ will find its strategy flawed. People are going to find non-ewallet methods of depositing and withdrawing. The methods will be much harder to track than Neteller. They stomped out the most popular and easiest to control funding method, but they were unable to contain the problem and it has spread out to the point that it is out of their reach.

 

[Tester]

"i dont know how things are done in the british markets, but i have never seen a stock that had trading suspended as long as neteller....."

That thought occurred to me as well when I read on the latest release (9 February) that the shares were to remain suspended.

We have members here who are involved in this side of business in the UK - perhaps one of them could comment on how long a company can suspend its shares before the stock exchange steps in?

As far as I can remember, a stock can stay suspended for severall months.
Usually, stock are suspended for lack of cash, for not sending yearly reports, etc. In this case they are in a much better situation. Since, the company is doing its business etc. And they are just not willing to trade befoer hey will settle with the US and - I guess - have adequate reports for investors to describe exactly what is going on after the big change.

People thought Neteller was safe. It wasn't. And no ewallet is safe. Click2Pay is almost just as bad and will probably end up like NT. I won't use an ewallet again.

The DOJ will find its strategy flawed. People are going to find non-ewallet methods of depositing and withdrawing. The methods will be much harder to track than Neteller. They stomped out the most popular and easiest to control funding method, but they were unable to contain the problem and it has spread out to the point that it is out of their reach.

What turned out not to work, is publicly working against the - persumed - US law. Neteller did not screw up. The ODJ screw thigns up.

For places where gambling is not prohibited, I am not seeing why to fear form ewallets. Althought unexpected things are - by definition - unexpected.

Anyway, I guess the Neteller fudns will be paid eventually.

 

[jetset]

Thanks, Tester - but I would imagine there must be an official limit somewhere in the exchange rules, because otherwise unscrupulous managers could keep investment money on hold indefinitely whilst they took decisions that may not be in the best interest of those investors.

 

[Tester]

I can remember (unclearly) cases that after several months the exchange threw out the stock. These were usually cases of clear negligence of basic rules. We have quite some time ahead before this is going to happen.

The value of the shares has dropped already. The only thing is they are not trading.

There was trading at a sports exchange as to how low will Neteller drop. I cannot find it now. Maybe it was dropped because the stock is so ling not trading. They do not like unclear betting.

 

[oldandboring40]

the only thing i could come up with concerning suspension is a ten day halt when the NYSE suspends a stock. Clearly this is not the case here. But if you look at the history of U.S. stocks you will see most will only halt trading on its shares for no longer that a couple of days no matter what the news is. again not the case here, but the length of the trade halt is very alarming to say the least. its been a month!

 

[Tester]

Thanks, Tester - but I would imagine there must be an official limit somewhere in the exchange rules, because otherwise unscrupulous managers could keep investment money on hold indefinitely whilst they took decisions that may not be in the best interest of those investors.

I did some searching.

Here is what goes on in Nasdaq. Some stocks stay suspended from May to December.

See bold paragraphs.

Homestore In Suspension - How Long?
by Blanche Evans


Homestore released news late afternoon on Friday December 21st that was so potentially explosive that the NASDAQ halted trading on its ticker symbol first thing on Monday, December 24th. At publication time, trading was still halted, and it could stay suspended for a long time.

The news? That the company must restate its financial results as it conducts an inquiry into its own accounting practices.

It is an inquiry? What an understatement. Since when do companies trigger a halt to ascending stock prices to "inquire" into their own accounting practices? Was this a noble self-sacrifice or did a regulator like the NASD or the SEC ask for this inquiry?

"It's not unusual at all for a company to investigate its own accounting practices. We have some outside experts that are assisting us," says Gary Gerdemann, senior director, corporate communications for Homestore. "We don't have the full scope of details - how did it start, when will it end, etc. I don't have those details."

No one else has details either, and certainly not until the NASD and SEC are satisfied that there will be no material announcements that will significantly impact the stock - up or down. That begs the question - what other bad news is coming down the pike? And it could be bad, if the abrupt exit of CFO Joseph Shew is any harbinger. He took the top accounting job at Homestore in March and vacated it ten months later, nearly two million dollars richer.

Homestore's statement that its results must be restated without naming which quarters are in question or how many quarters back the inquiry will go doesn't bode well. The company also stated that it had retained independent counsel and independent accountants to assist with the inquiry. That's why the stock could be in for a long haul. If multiple quarters' results are being probed, the new accountants have quite a bit of work cut out for them. There won't likely be an answer found overnight, and then any answers found must pass muster with the NASD and SEC.

The only good news for Homestore is that it only has two halts against it, a T.1 for pending news, and a T.12, a halt requesting more information. What Homestore doesn't want is any news that may indicate irregular activity or worse which could trigger an H.11 - a halt for regulatory concern.

How rare is it for a stock to be halted from trading, catapulting its investors and customers into limbo? What do the halts mean?

According to Mike DeMeo, spokesperson for NASDAQ, halts can be issued for a wide variety of reasons such as the news that a company is going to be acquired or that it is declaring bankruptcy, or that it has a product announcement. The way it works is that the companies notify NASDAQ with their news by sending it to Stockwatch or Marketwatch. NASD, NASDAQ's parent, and NASDAQ look over the news to see if the news is going to impact the company's stock in a positive or negative way. "What we look for is news that will significantly affect the value of the stock," says DeMeo.

"If you go to www.nasdaqnews.com, at the newsroom there is a link to 'trading halts'," instructs DeMeo. "You'll see a long list of companies that are halted with all different reason codes for pending news, or to request more information or other reasons."

One company on the list with the same halt codes as Homestore, Novo Networks, Inc., has been suspended from trading since July.

So why did NASDAQ halt trading on Homestore? "The communication between NASDAQ and the companies is nonpublic, so we can't comment on those," says DeMeo. "Homestore's halts for news pending and requesting additional information are not specific.

How long will the halts last? "There's no time frame for when this halt will come off - there are companies that have been halted since May," he says. "It could last for months."
With so many billions lost on the NASDAQ over the last year, is NASDAQ getting more policelike? Is that what is behind Homestore's corporate colonic? "Our parent NASD is our regulator, and they have always done this to secure the fair trading of issues," says DeMeo.

What about fraud? "That’s where NASD comes in, and they look at the issues. There is a code for irregularities, H.11, a halt for regulatory concern. The SEC can also suspend trading if it has a concern. I don't have specifics about Homestore, but a lot of companies that are under watch or halt will come out publicly and say why they are being halted."

What about the investors - are they the last to know when a company has good or bad news? Again, DeMeo points inquiries to Nasdaqnews.com (or Nasdaqtrader.com). "They are the first to know," explains DeMeo. "If you go to www.nasdaqtrader.com and if you go to trading halts, you will see a bunch of companies that are being halted,and it lists when a stock is resumed. That list is refreshed at the end of the day. Traders have access to this all the time, and if they are trading in the stock, then they know to go there and be on the lookout."

After a slate of bad news, is Homestore going to be able to recover from trade suspension? The halts will not impact Homestore's ability to serve its customers, assures Gerdemann. "We continue to be the leader of our field, and we serve hundreds of thousands of customers," he says. "We are confident of our business, and will continue to concentrate on customer service."

Published: December 27, 2001

 

[jetset]

That's very interesting; essentially Nasdaq companies can stay "halted" in a trading sense for as long as it takes if they can give the exchange a good reason and presumably keep the exchange news updated on developments.

I'm trying to find out if the same rules apply in London.

 

[Tester]

The rules of the Lndon stock exchange are here

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There are many files of rules, and I was unable to find the relavant rule.

 

[jetset]

AIM official response

THE CLOCK COULD BE TICKING FOR NETELLER


Stock Exchange regulations stipulate that suspension of shares cannot exceed six months


The Isle of Man e-wallet Neteller, which suspended its shares from trading on the London AIM Exchange earlier this year following the arrest of two of its founders and major shareholders could be faced with pressures of time due to stock exchange rule 41, which imposes a limit on the length of time shares can be suspended.

Answering a press enquiry from InfoPowa today, stock exchange officials said that the amount of time an AIM company's shares can continue to be suspended is governed by Rule 41 of the AIM Rules for Companies. This requires that "The Exchange will cancel the admission of AIM securities where these have been suspended from trading for six months."

Exchange officials also commented: "We would also like to note that during the period when the AIM company is suspended we would still expect it to meet its continuing obligations under the AIM Rules and therefore keep the market informed of any further developments concerning its position as required by the AIM Rule disclosure principles."

 

[Tester]

Neteller to tell us more?

NETeller management has been in contact with Gambling911.com over the last few days and plan on addressing key issues.

Let's hope they are realistically going to address us with what is up.

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[Forbin001]

I finally recieved a check from Neteller today....about a 5 week delay....better late than never

 

[dhayman]

I finally recieved a check from Neteller today....about a 5 week delay....better late than never

Are you saying that you got paid by check for an outstanding "pending" amount, and you are from NY ???

When was request put in, and how much was the check for, if you don't mind me asking ?????

 

[Tester]

Five weeks delay means he requested it about the 19th, just when the scandal began.

I finally recieved a check from Neteller today....about a 5 week delay....better late than never

Are you saying that you got paid by check for an outstanding "pending" amount, and you are from NY ???

When was request put in, and how much was the check for, if you don't mind me asking ?????

 

[oldandboring40]

thats great to know some one got paid. was it itemized for payroll deductions? .....sorry, couldnt help myself.

 

[jetset]

Neteller to tell us more?



Let's hope they are realistically going to address us with what is up.

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As a public company, and especially in the straits they find themselves at present, Neteller management will need to tread very carefully here, making sure that in this apparently exclusive arrangement they do not disclose anything material that has not already been publicly released.

If they breach that, they could find themselves trying to explain why to investors and stock exchange authorities.

The safest answer (assuming there is something material and new to disclose) would be to simultaneously release the new information in concert with the 911 interview.

Those caveats aside, any Neteller communication that expands our understanding and knowledge of this player-sensitive situation will be welcomed.

 

[spike38]

Neteller

I am also in NY and have two pending withdraws , one from the 16th and one from the 18th which still haven't been processed. Has anyone else been paid ? Any more details on your payment, Forbin ?

 

[johns1124]

I think someone is busting our chops. I have an EFT from 16th and its no where to be seen. If you go to neteller today it takes some seaching to find the US FAQ. They pretty well buried that think. Out of Sight, Our of Mind right neteller?

 

[Tester]

The US FAQ has a link from every page I saw (main page & sign in pages).
There is no huge banner for that as of now.

I am sure all US customers paid a visit to Neteller;s site over the last five weeks already. And there is a clear link for that. I do not think they have to put half a page of a banner for the FAQ forever.

 

[winbig]

The US FAQ has a link from every page I saw (main page & sign in pages).
There is no huge banner for that as of now.

I am sure all US customers paid a visit to Neteller;s site over the last five weeks already. And there is a clear link for that. I do not think they have to put half a page of a banner for the FAQ forever.

Yep, it's listed on the main page at the bottom (text link) "Important US member update"

But, please tell me, what the HELL is this crap (pic below)??? I thought they were having trouble paying ANYONE in USD?

Also:

How can I withdraw funds from my NETELLER account?

At this time, we are unable to provide US members with withdrawals. As a top priority, we are working to resolve all withdrawal issues. Please read this press release to learn more about the NETELLER withdrawal issues.

Sheesh.

 

[Tester]

But, please tell me, what the HELL is this crap (pic below)??? I thought they were having trouble paying ANYONE in USD?

You can still hold an account in USD with no problem.
There is a technical with checks & wires denominated in USD, cause they fear the US government will take hold on the funds (yes this is the stupid situation, the USAO have the ability to confiscate USD funds even outside the USA!).
But this is just a technical problem for the currency with whihc you get the money.

I guess this is just for wires and EFT, but checks still work. Not sure, though.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[sdaddy]

Gambling911 interview now online

NETeller Executives and Employees Give Gambling911 Lowdown

Thousands of US customers await monies from third party payment solutions firm NETeller, whose co-founders were indicted last month on various charges ranging from money laundering to racketeering.

An executive of NETeller, speaking on anonymity to Gambling911.com, stated that "no criminal action or proceeding has been brought against the company (NETeller), its current officers or directors."

This executive expressed how difficult it has been communicating the company's efforts during these trying times, especially as a publicly traded company.

"Being a public company, at this time we are restricted to what we can say publicly to any material facts that are issued to the market first via a press release," this individual told Gambling911.com.

He hoped to clear up any confusion related to the "necessary restructuring of our company, the growth and stability of our non-US business, how our US customers funds are protected, our desire and the process for repatriating their funds, and very importantly to us, the respect we hold for all our customers, whether affected by the recent events or not."

Gambling911.com awaited additional responses to addressed concerns.

Meanwhile, other high level employees within the NETeller organization told Gambling911.com that they are fully cooperating with the US Department of Justice.

"NETeller is cooperating with the DOJ, there's been three to four lawyers going through a few hundred boxes of files over the past couple of weeks," this employee stated. "When we try asking the lawyers what they were doing, all they would ever answer is 'Stuff'. They've been very eager to talk to those executives that are leaving I guess for fear they might disappear once they're gone this week."

The employee made reference to news traveling throughout the organization that a handful of high level executives were planning to leave NETeller by month's end.

"Why players haven't been paid when everyone else is... My only guess on this can be HSBC bank. They've been summoned by the DOJ from what I've read and not wanting to process US accounts. And any other processors are scared ****less to touch anything that is remotely close to NETeller/NT Services, probably fear of having the DOJ after them.

"All I keep hearing is they're (The DOJ) working on finding other processors'...good luck is all I can say. Call center has been slashed by 90%, and at most they have maybe 20 to 40 Customer Service reps left
with the company."

The employee further commented on the large number of threats coming into the NETeller office.

"But what's not helping anyone's situation is the individuals writing in threats... I totally understand their frustration, but (they) have to realize that the people on the other end of the phone & emails are helpless due to the company's actions. Some of the context of messages received would make you shake your head Chris... even the phone calls."

European, Canadian and some Asian clientele continue to use NETeller while well aware of the risks involved in doing so. Gambling911.com at this time considers use of NETeller by these individuals as a major risk right up there with ePassPorte.

Some naively point to the US Justice Department as the primary reason why customers in the United States cannot receive monies from NETeller at this time while overlooking the internal meltdown occurring within the third party payment processing firm.

Link:

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[REOdeathwagon]

The employee further commented on the large number of threats coming into the NETeller office.

"But what's not helping anyone's situation is the individuals writing in threats... I totally understand their frustration, but (they) have to realize that the people on the other end of the phone & emails are helpless due to the company's actions. Some of the context of messages received would make you shake your head Chris... even the phone calls."

I don't condone the threats, but this was kind of funny. It would just be nice if the threats actually reached the individuals, they are being directed at.

 

[Tester]

I can understand gambling911's stand to be cautionous.

In my view they are exaggerating.

They say that no bank want to process the transferrs to US clients. That is something more technical which I think will be resolved sooner or later via some procedure or bank. So far that the money is there, I see only a headache and very bad feeling, no evidence for any thought about not paying.

They give here a pretty convincing rational for Neteller lack of official announcements etc. for the stock market regulations that makes any announcement very problematic. Those who know a little about how technical public company are being dealt with nowadays will understand this much better.

And for threats, I can see only the DOJ eligible for any kind of cursing etc. I do not think they are being fair for the clients of Neteller.
OK. They think all US online gamblers are criminals, why should they care about them?? And this reminds me the days when having sex with no marriage would be considered unaccepted. You saw some lovers on the street in any kind of trouble, and you would shy away. They are "law breakers" aren't they?

Shame on you US hypocryte government!!!!

 

[jetset]

I don't see anything that is really new in this piece...and one has to be careful to distinguish between the first part, which appears to be an anonymous executive speaking and pretty much hewing to a line from company material already released, and the second bit which sounds more like a disgruntled retrenchee and still doesn't really tell us anything new or confirmed (other than the "local colour" description of lawyers pawing through boxes of papers provided by Neteller.)

It seems to me to be regurgitating stuff that is already reported (by 911 itself amongst others) in a different way.

I'm therefore not surprised that the editor forwarded a further list of questions to Neteller, and perhaps that will bring forth something more interesting providing Neteller also release it as a public company (as I commented in my earlier post on this aspect of Neteller communications.)

There is nothing to stop them from doing this - regular progress reports agreed with the stock exchange and perhaps even with the DoJ as the other party to these *talks* are not outside the bounds of possibility.

 

[Tester]

The only thing that makes me feel strange about the 911 report, is that in some intuitive sense I feel they have a very clear agenda against Neteller.

It feels like every piece of info that can be presented as negative is presented that way.

I hope I am not mistaken.

 

[Tester]

another article form gambling911

YouTeller Equals NETeller? Angry Customer Wants HSBC Held Accountable Too
Rumors have been spreading like wildfire that some of the folks behind YouTeller (an upcoming third party payment processor) are actually current and/or executives from NETeller, which may not bode well for any merchant and customer still owed money by NETeller.

While Gambling911.com has been unable to confirm these rumors, others within the industry insist this to be the case.

One operator, speaking on terms that he and his online gambling company remain anonymous, told Gambling911.com that other merchants have not yet received settlements from NETeller though the third party payment processing company claims funds have been sent via bank wire.

"I am also told, that all efforts these merchants have made to get a response from NETeller regarding their "missing" ( read NEVER SENT ) wires have been met with complete silence.

"We are also going through the same thing (as these other merchants).
I cannot speak for other operators, but our CEO is going to be in Europein
approx 10 days and has a meeting scheduled with the FSA to file a formal
complaint.

"He advises he is also going to be paying personal visits to several of the
remaining banks servicing NETeller to apprise them of the situation. He
expects they will sever relations with NETeller once these "correspondents"
realize the situation they are putting themselves in the middle of, and
potential liability this brings them."

And customers of NETeller have been growing increasingly impatient as well. Some are now threatening to take legal action.

One customer - We will call him 'Larry' to protect his identity - has now called upon his fellow online gamblers to rally and file a class action suit against NETeller and its executives.

"I am an avid reader of your site (Gambling911.com) and have been long before the fallout of the last month. As a NETeller account holder I appreciate the hammering of NETeller for not acting in good faith regarding its customers deposits. However, at this point, I am sick of reading articles about the company."

Larry goes on to suggest that customers should even consider taking legal action against HSBC, which had been conducting business with NETeller.

"No longer should NETeller be aloud to hide behind A governmental inquiry and allegations that HSBC has refused to do business with them. Why is no one talking class action lawsuit? these people have de-frauding innocent Americans. I think US account holders could potentially maintain several causes of action against both of these companies. HSBC has numerous assets in the United States and is publicly traded.

"The pressure from a large public lawsuit has the potential to get their attention, at the very least. We are talking about tens of millions of dollars here. Have these people lost their minds? I am sick of waiting and reading about what may happen in the future, I want to pursue suing these people in Federal Court. They cannot be allowed to skate like this."

The US Justice Department has subpoenaed a number of European banks, all of which have offices in the United States. These were banks alleged to have been instrumental in helping some online gambling firms to go public on the London Stock Exchange over the past two years. Some also conducted business with NETeller.

A Yahoo News Group has been set up by one player here to discuss NETeller issues

---

Christopher Costigan, Gambling911.com

Originally published February 25, 2007 4:11 pm ET

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[jetset]

In my personal opinion, that sounds to me like a frustrated operator trying to apply some parallel pressure to resolve his particular issue by going (anonymously) public with threats to lodge an FSA complaint (which he does not have to do in person whilst on an overseas trip btw)

 

[Tester]

In my personal opinion, that sounds to me like a frustrated operator trying to apply some parallel pressure to resolve his particular issue by going (anonymously) public with threats to lodge an FSA complaint (which he does not have to do in person whilst on an overseas trip btw)

Absolutely.

If Neteller would not be paying casinos, we would have hear that from several places.

 

[lojo]

No inference or aspersion to the referenced info portal, but another point altogether.
Don't forget the short sellers who have been laughing like hyena since the arrests. There is more than one agenda at play in the overall situation.

Nature note: Hyenas not only eat carion and work in packs to steal food at night; they also hunt by day in the cruelest fashion and will bite the hand that feeds them.

 

[casinocide]

hahahaha

Nature note: Hyenas not only eat carion and work in packs to steal food at night; they also hunt by day in the cruelest fashion and will bite the hand that feeds them.

LOL, that pretty much sums Wall St's MO. Speaking of some of our big-shot Manhattan friends, wouldn't it be funnier than hell if we found out Michael J Garcia had some Bahamian corporation of his short sell Neteller. That's what I would do if I were a Pig.

 

[lojo]

I imagine his motives are political and 'moral'. (Googled "Michael J. Garcia" curriculum vitae - for a random sample of his work) The USAID example stands out as 'moral' and his career path as 'political'. For the most part I assume he works what gets put on his plate.

Depending on developments between now and then ('then' being active trading if it ever lists again) I intend to do some legal gambling on this stock day trading (maybe use margins like bonus money? bwahahahaha)
It's too soon to tell what will happen, but I hope to be singin, 'swing looooow sweet chariot' then jump on for the ride of my life. Too soon to know and no disposable funds to play with right now.

Another song comes to mind if it works out, '...rocky mountain climbin, I did 4.7 million on a bull named NLR'

Here's to the American dream

 

[jetset]

NETELLER GETS NASTY...

LEAVE OUR NAME ALONE SAYS NETELLER


Cease and desist order served on newbie processor Youteller


Point spreads.com reports that Youteller.com, the nascent third party financial processor which launched recently (see previous InfoPowa reports) has attracted the legal wrath of embattled Neteller.com.

The gambling information portal reports that Neteller legal eagles have served a cease and desist order on Youteller, claiming that the newcomer is infringing on its registered trademark and believes that parent company Seed Capital's use of the YouTeller brand will cause consumer confusion.

NETeller has demanded that YouTeller respond in writing by March 5th, 2007 that it will comply with the cease and desist order.

Youteller has made a rocky start in the business, restricting membership and proving elusive in terms of full transparency and plainly inefficient in terms of communications.

"Please be patient until we have disclosed information about our partners and about poker sites that accept YouTeller.com as a payment option," commented Florian Schweitzer, the apparently sole publicly visible director of YouTeller, in an email response to an article which appeared on Point-Spreads.com last week.

Schweitzer went on to say, "Small e-money issuers are companies that have small payment transaction volumes. Our customers will not be able to transfer (or hold more money in their YouTeller account) than 150 (about 190 USD). Such businesses does not have a FSA register number like banks, insurance companies or "big" e-money issuers like neteller. Please ask the FSA directly for further information on FSA's register policy."

Based on Schweitzer's comments, it appears that YouTeller is only looking to take on poker sites as merchants. With limits of $190 USD, it does not appear that YouTeller will be able to replace NETeller anytime soon, opines Point Spreads with accuracy.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Youteller

Neteller are right about one thing, customer confusion. There are many rumours about there being a link between youteller and Neteller, and I expect Neteller are worried that anything going wrong at youteller will reflect badly on Neteller.
I am not entirely sure, but I don't believe there is such a thing as a "big e-money issuer" at the FSA. Last time I looked, Neteller had a "small E-money issuer" authorisation, with protection for up to 1,000 or so per account. Presumably, youteller has an even lesser level of protection.
Neteller need not be afraid of losing trade to youteller, with it's $190 limit. Only small players would be interested, and if youteller get stuck into the US all the better, as it will draw the attentions of the DoJ away from Neteller, which has ceased US business.

Currently, I would not go near youteller, too many unknowns, along with their own admission that "our servers can't cope" with more than 1000 members.