Moral dilemma

[Kimsterfl]

I would first send them an email outlining the facts and wait a reasonable amount of time for a response. They may have sent you the extra money intentionally.

If you find that in fact it was an error and overpayment, I would return the money. It is not yours.

 

[2btakn]

Or simply call it 4 months of interest. After all They "borrowed" your money for 4 months

That's exactly what I was thinking. Think of it as interest on the money you were owed.

 

[Jasminebed]

I'd like to relate a story that happened to my aunt quite a number of decades ago. She had paid for a watch repair at a local jeweller, and upon arriving home realized she had ten dollars too much money, and that this could be the only place where it could have happenned. In the early fifties, $10 was a lot more money than it is now.

As my aunt lived just out of town, and that was long distance in those days, it was the following week when she went into the jewellers to return the mistake that had been made in her change.

She approached the salesman and said that she had been in last week to pick up a watch, and she thought a mistake had been made. The salesman pulled himself up to his full height and informed her "Madam, we do not make mistakes". She deferred to him and left the shop without argument.

I'd email them and tell them simply that you think your recent payment was not the correct amount. See if they get back to you without daily prodding.

 

[Diane]

I would keep it and I certainly wouldn't feel guilty after 4-months of stress and hassle!

KK

A agree in spades. You deserve to keep whatever they sent you for your inconvenience, time/value of money, and hassles.

Good for you. Nice to see reinforced once again that tenacity will win out most of the time.

Now.............stay away from the ROGUE sites and avoid the stress and worry of playing at the other sites, no matter how good the bonus or incentive might be tempting you.

Diane

 

[Papa-ya]

I had played at a rogue casino prior to finding this site. They finally paid me but it took countless phone calls, emails, live chats and frustration on my part to finally get my funds. It also was almost a 4 month process!
I obviously am done with this casino and any related casinos, however, when they paid me they seem to have overpaid me by $485usd.
I have checked, double checked and rechecked. Surely they did put an extra $485 into my NT account.
At first I was happy but then I started thinking about it and would it not make me worse than even they are if I kept it without informing them? I realize it would be nice to keep but it really wasn't mine to begin with I suppose and I think I would feel quite guilty if I didn't inform them of the overpayment. On the other hand I am wondering if I am wrong in my thoughts. I am looking for any advice, rationale or logic as to why I would keep it and not return it or at least inform them. I have thought even about giving it to a charity and not telling them because I really dislike them. Still, I am trying to get my head around what is the correct protocol in this odd situation.

Firstly, I would like to ask if you have contacted the casino and asked them about the overpayment?
I find it odd to not tell them, but tell the gambling forum of this situation and get input on what others would do.
So I have to ask, is this a real situation, or is it a test of the moral attitude of players worldwide?
Secondly, two wrongs will never make a right.
Players expect a higher standard from casinos, regarding our privacy, payouts and so on. But when dealing with a rogue casino, we should never justify their feelings that the community of players are rogue as well and deserve what we get. So if nothing else, players should be an example of the good for even the bad places to view us, thus nullifing their justification of how they view players.
Lastly, if the casino informs you it is compensation for your troubles, then you can feel good about it. If they realize they have made an error and you return it to them, then you can be guilt free and know you are better than they are.
Another thought, what if it's another players withdrawal that was accidently shuffled into yours, some other poor smuck is out there waiting for payment and the casino is thinking they have been paid.

 

[missmichelle]

I really wouldn't know what to do in the case of it being a rogue casino. I know the few places I do play at I would tell them immediately. I expect them to be honest with me so I would do the same with them

Michelle

 

[rainmaker]

I'm a little disappointed with some of you. On the one hand, you wish a good and fair gambling industry. On the other side, as soon as the opportunity is there, you will take money that does not belong to you. Even if you give money to charity, it does not justify the fact that the money has been wrongfully transferred to you. I really can not understand why so many of you are willing to go down to the same low level as so many rouge casinos. A casinos greed is no different than the players.

 

[oldtrvlagt]

I'm a little disappointed with some of you. On the one hand, you wish a good and fair gambling industry. On the other side, as soon as the opportunity is there, you will take money that does not belong to you. Even if you give money to charity, it does not justify the fact that the money has been wrongfully transferred to you. I really can not understand why so many of you are willing to go down to the same low level as so many rouge casinos. A casinos greed is no different than the players.

Personally I don't know what I would do (it depends upon which casino as I have been burned by... a couple..anyway..derail here) but how many threads are there where the "rogues" have not paid a player because of a "clause" that was buried somewhere, they enforce "managers discretion", bonus abuse, change the WR,etc.,etc.? There are hundreds...so now we have one (1) where they actually made a mistake in a players favor why wouldn't people be happy? 99% of the time the player loses with these people...this is the 1% of revenge. I'm inclined to think he should keep it after the 4 months of hassle or give it to a good charity...maybe in the casino's name

 

[rainmaker]

Personally I don't know what I would do (it depends upon which casino as I have been burned by... a couple..anyway..derail here) but how many threads are there where the "rogues" have not paid a player because of a "clause" that was buried somewhere, they enforce "managers discretion", bonus abuse, change the WR,etc.,etc.? There are hundreds...so now we have one (1) where they actually made a mistake in a players favor why wouldn't people be happy? 99% of the time the player loses with these people...this is the 1% of revenge. I'm inclined to think he should keep it after the 4 months of hassle or give it to a good charity...maybe in the casino's name

Don`t agree. The player was paid in full, and its not up to the player to "revenge" all of the players who has not been paid. There are probably a lot of cases where players has been wrongfully credited, but you won`t see those cases in this forum.

 

[oldtrvlagt]

You don't have to agree....it is ultimately up to the OP...we can all only express opinions.

 

[rainmaker]

You don't have to agree....it is ultimately up to the OP...we can all only express opinions.

Of course, and I have never expressed otherwise

 

[Emmeline]

Hmm, where is the OP BTW, have not seen him around?

Expired Image

 

[Da_Gambla]

Just as an observation, the OP has not come back, after 33 replies, to answer a few questions, thank anyone or respond in any way. The most notable question being, was this, in fact, a real situation or were they just curious as to forum opinion?

Our first reactions to this post had a lot of tongues firmly lodged in our cheeks, but now this post has taken a more serious/moral twinge.

In my first response, I suggested keeping the money for a period of time before ever using it. We have laws here that deal with finding things, and the first course of action recommended is taking it to a law enforcement agency where it will be 'held' by them. It doesn't matter whether it's real property, or cash. If an owner does not claim it and provide sufficient proof of their claim, you then can take possession and do what you want with it.

The reason that was said by me, in a tongue/cheek way, was that obviously this is not FOUND money and the owner unknown. This would fall under the category of 'unexpected or unexplained windfall', and the owner of the money (windfall) here is known. At that point, there is a certain amount of responsibility now inherited by the beneficiary of the windfall, because actually keeping something you have clear knowledge is an error can be considered a criminal or civil matter, or both.

This is all said with the only examples being very localized. How this would be played out over international banking involving a casino is unknown.

Banks and businesses quite often make mistakes - both ways. For those who receive a windfall, most times the bank or business will find the error during reconciliation processes. If they come back after the money, you owe it, plain and simple. The `certain amount of responsibility now inherited by the beneficiary of the windfall` situation outlined above CAN be made moot by declaring you didn't see the error in your favor. I'm saying most of this with the facts stated here that the OP does in fact not only know the exact amount, but the exact owner. Once you acknowledge this fact, you inherit the burden of 'making it aware'.

These are all of the technical aspects of this situation, but it still falls on the OP as to whether they want to 'gamble' trying to make the situation known versus remaining silent. I like the suggestion above that says to contact the casino and say you believe there has been an error, can they confirm you were to be paid x amount of dollars? If they confirm their records show you were owed that, then you would have to face the next level of informing them your records show you were overpaid, or not... at least on this level, if you really wanted to keep it, you have it on record that you contacted them and confirmed they paid the amount their records indicated. That would relieve you of any criminal complaint. Civil liability would remain, but for how long, I wouldn't have a clue.

- Keith

 

[Marie2473]

What casino is it? try to do a search here and see if u can find any threads about someone beeing screwed over by them and send the money to them =)
Then u are just helping the casino paying a player that never got as "lucky" as you did ...

 

[pevangel]

I for one would definitely return the overpayment, without a second thought.
That is exactly what I would do.

pevangel

 

[De Beuker]

I think none of the people here with the high morals who say 'pay it back' have ever been screwed over by a rogue, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm very sorry for my low standards, for beeing an a-hole or whatever, put De Beuker in the rogue pit, but I say, eff them, too bad, their mistake.

Can you imagine begging FOUR FRIGGIN' MONTHS for YOUR money, calling, mailing, getting one lame excuse after another, beeing asked to send in docs you've already sent in 15 times, checking your Neteller every day because hey, they SAID it should be there, but its not, again, all the joy of winning that money has been replaced by frustration and anger, and you're almost sure you'll never ever see that cash, but you keep going, you keep mailing, calling, and finally, FINALLY they pay you whats rightfully yours, and only because they got so sick and tired of you, after FOUR FRIGGIN' MONTHS of calling and begging every day and hey, its too much!

And then you really think I'm gonna pay that extra money back immediately?!?
Get alive, please.

The sooner these rogues go out of business the better, and I would do everything in my power to speed up that process.
And I would not for a split second feel guilty about that.
Not for a split-split second.

Again if it were any REPUTABLE casino, one that has always treated me right, they would have gotten that money back immediately, no doubt I would even try to keep it.
But my guess is that this is about Virtual group. Eff them.

 

[Kimsterfl]

This was not "found" money. An overpayment should have been returned immediately.

I think OP is caught between the restraints of acceptable social behavior and those favored by his natural selection of survival value.

 

[Da_Gambla]

What casino is it? try to do a search here and see if u can find any threads about someone beeing screwed over by them and send the money to them =)
Then u are just helping the casino paying a player that never got as "lucky" as you did ...

This would not absolve the OP from liability should the company decide to claim their error (depending on jurisdictional laws we may not be familiar with). There is a clear electronic 'paper trail' here that does not go away.

Let's say, for example putting the shoe on the other foot, you walk into a store and purchase something that costs exactly $10.00. You write a check, and mistakenly add an additional zero, for $100. The store cashes that check, and maybe you don't see that error for a long period of time (a month, maybe more). Finally you see the problem and contact that store, just to be told that they realized that register was over by $90. They even realized it was your transaction that caused the error, but since you didn't contact them immediately, they donated your error to a charity. Or maybe they gave $1 off to the next 90 customers. Or maybe they donated it to an employee who was in a tight situation. How would you feel about this? Would you not feel that they were responsible for trying to contact YOU before they decided to give your money away? Maybe if they had contacted you, you would have instructed them to donate it, but the fact remains that they never gave you that opportunity. At the least, you have a civil case, and I believe you would win it easily. I also believe that the manager or person who authorized your money being given away would be fired and/or criminally charged.

Since this situation involves something very traceable, and wasn't simply a case of finding this cash laying on the ground, there is a perceived burden of trying to make the error known, and rectifying it. If you donated it, and the company came after that action looking for their money, you would owe them the money back, and the donation would have simply come out of your pocket.

- Keith

 

[rainmaker]

Our first reactions to this post had a lot of tongues firmly lodged in our cheeks, but now this post has taken a more serious/moral twinge.

Yes, a couple of the replies "had a lot of tongues firmly lodged in our cheeks". But only a couple.

As I said before, I find it a bit disappointing. Even Casinomeister thinks its okey to give it to charity, even though the money was wrongfully credited the players account.

I am a new member here and in comparison with the "veterans"on this forum, I have no weight in terms of my opinions. But there is a problem when veteran members are saying that it is "ok" to keep wrongfully transferred money.

If a "advocate" of fair play-forum thinks its "ok", then we are creating our own justice by revenge, even if the player has no case. Because we think this is the "fair" way. Well, the next time a casino receives a complain in this forum, they may only refer to this discussion and say that the forum does not follow the T&C when it comes to cases where a player has been paid too much. I assume they have something about this in their T&C.

Another thing is, we don't know anything about why it took 4 months to receive payment. But that is not important. The player way paid in full.

I had expected that this issue should be answered in an objective manner. It was not.

(edited some spelling )

 

[Da_Gambla]

Yes, a couple of the replies "had a lot of tongues firmly lodged in our cheeks". But only a couple.

As I said before, I find it a bit disappointing. Even Casinomeister thinks its okey to give it to charity, even though the money was wrongfully credited the players account.

I am a new member here and in comparison with the "veterans"on this forum, I have no weight in terms of my opinions. But there is a problem when veteran members are saying that it is "ok" to keep wrongfully transferred money.

If a "advocate" of fair play-forum thinks its "ok", then we are creating our own justice by revenge, even if the player has no case. Because we think this is the "fairest" way. Well, the next time a casino receives a complain in this forum, they may only refer to this discussion and say that the forum does not follow the T&C when it comes to cases where a player has been paid too much. I assume they have something about this in their T&C.

Another thing is, we don't know anything about why it took 4 months to receive payment. But that is not important. The player way paid in full.

I had expected that this issue should be answered in an objective manner. It was not.

Don't be too hard on Bryan or any of us that were quick to respond to something before thinking about too long, and lacking more details from the OP. Morals are funny things, as by their true nature, usually don't rear themselves until we really think about a situation and all of the ramifications of our response.

I'm sure Bryan would agree that if you donated the money, and the company came back looking for their money, you'd still owe it (civil liability).

While technically VERY different, another comparison might be receiving something stolen, and then passing that onto a charity. Replace 'stolen' with 'something that isn't yours to give away', and you'll see the comparison.

I completely agree with you. The burden is on the OP to make the error known and available for reconciliation, but a lot of the comments made here are being made in a vacuum of any additional information. Don't read too much into this.. it's a fairly light-hearted conversation, really.

- Keith

 

[De Beuker]

I had expected that this issue should be answered in an objective manner. It was not.

You might be right.
Maybe long time members have seen too many COOL CAT SCREWED ME or PALACE OF CHANCE WONT PAY - threads to give an objective opinion.

 

[rainmaker]

You might be right.
Maybe long time members have seen too many COOL CAT SCREWED ME or PALACE OF CHANCE WONT PAY - threads to give an objective opinion.

I really can understand that some are getting tired of bad casinos. I've only been a member here for a couple of months, and Im already having nightmares about some casinos in the rogue list my head hurts

 

[ShayDrew]

Just my 10c worth - this happenned to me recently where I collected a very modest $270, and it got paid twice. It only took 10 minutes to hit my Neteller twice, so you can probably guess which Casino it was, so I paid it back immediately.

I guess I am a believer in karma, and I would have felt just wrong about keeping it, and it would probably have meant I would not have played at that casino again which would also have been a shame.

If I had been put into the situation as described by the OP... then well it does make it a harder call, but I believe I would have advised the casino of it, and perhaps suggested it was a goodwill credit due to the length of time it took to get paid? But I think I would have rested easier knowing I was all "above board"

 

[Jasminebed]

I have been paid twice for a withdrawal by an accredited casino I play at regularly. I contacted them by email (wanna guess who?), and we rectified the situation promptly. I did receive a nice thank you email.

I still like my suggestion of contacting them to inform them you believe there's an error without elaborating on what kind of error. After all, casinos have draws and mystery prizes and the like. If they fail to respond, well so be it. If they look at your account and get back to you with a a so sorry, please return, then do so.

 

[Diane]

I am going to reverse my original position as well. I wouldn't accept an overpayment without questioning it in a B&M casino.

I like the approach mentioned of "can you confirm the amount I was paid was correct?".

We spend so much time here being concerned about getting paid, getting paid timely etc. that my first reaction was "keep it". But after further review, that's not right either and I am glad this thread got continued even though the OP is MIA.

We have obligations too to be fair and honest customers also at each establishment that we choose to do business with and at. The question needs to be asked and if error found, then it should be returned.

Mea Culpa,

Diane