Microgaming i hope the end is near

[Mirvel]

Hi all,
after i complained against microgaming 1-2 weeks ago....
the weirdest things happen...

i played on thunderstruck 2 for 6 HOURS on 2.10 bet!!
3 times the free spins with an avarage win of 10-15 times my bet.....
NOT once did i had the WILDSTORM feature.....(lost 800-900$)
As soon as i lowered my bet (i was almost broke) to 60ct
First spin WILDSTORM WITH 60 times my bet
Second spin FREE spins 60 times my bet.....
fourth spin free spins 60 times my bet......
I raise my bet again to 2.10 and was broke in 10 min....
few days later.......... other casino.....
exactly the same story?????? again i lost close to 800$ had 2 times the free spins with 5-10 times my bet and not one time the WILDSTORM FEATURE

TALLY HO SLOT...... im playing on a 1.80 bet for 2 hours
NOT once the free spins got 1 nice win and thats it.
played somewhere between 700 and 1000 spins stil no free spins. lost 700$

Break da bank.........1137 spins no free spins.
second try on break da bank........ 300 spins yes free spins and i got 2.2 times
my bet....................1400+ spins to get 1 time the free spins???????
3th attempt on break da bank.......
after well over 950spins i got the free spins and won 2.2 times my bet......
2500 spins and i got 2 times the free spins and a total of 4.4 times my bet!!!!
and not once a big win.......lost 700-800$

ISIS, beach babes, thunderstruck 1...... on avarage i get the free spins once for every 400-500 spins played
and 20 times my bet as win.lost 600$


20 min ago i stopped playing the new game Royal feast i believe...
700 spins... not once the free spins........

Santa's wild ride...... got 1 time the free spins with an amazing 6 times my bet

thats all i had with 4000$ deposit past week

THATS NOT NORMALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am a MC player for 3-4 years now and this NEVER happend before .... not even close to that..... everything got much worse after i complained against microgaming and i started talking and post here in the forum.......

now i noticed more and more players complaining about MC some say
we should work together as players if we want to make a difference.
Why dont we? why dont we gather as much as we can over MC and make a point?
i can prove they lie............
I can prove they alter the games during play........
If i check my deposit history i get numbers much lower than what my VISA card and my neteller acount tell me.....
if i check my withdrawal history i get numbers much bigger than my neteller acount tells me....it apears canceld withdrawals are not removed from the system??

anyway i know i am not the only1 with issues like this....
If we want to make a difference we should stand together!
i wil do w/e i need to do.
but i can't do it alone.

 

[jod5413]

All I would say is you have very bad luck! I know someone else here will join your thread to commiserate, but I have a question for you and any others that give out their stats showing hundreds of spins, all losers.

Why would anyone stay on a slot that is cold as you know what? When I play, if I am not even getting little boosts here and there, I am gone to find another slot that might like me better. I have never, ever stayed on a cold slot til I bust out. Part of the fun of gambling is that you are trying to beat the casino. To play hundreds of spins that are taking your money over and over, why do you not go somewhere else?

I am not trying to be an a$$, though I do that quite well sometimes. I am honestly very curious.

 

[vinylweatherman]

All I would say is you have very bad luck! I know someone else here will join your thread to commiserate, but I have a question for you and any others that give out their stats showing hundreds of spins, all losers.

Why would anyone stay on a slot that is cold as you know what? When I play, if I am not even getting little boosts here and there, I am gone to find another slot that might like me better. I have never, ever stayed on a cold slot til I bust out. Part of the fun of gambling is that you are trying to beat the casino. To play hundreds of spins that are taking your money over and over, why do you not go somewhere else?

I am not trying to be an a$$, though I do that quite well sometimes. I am honestly very curious.

Why would this have ANY relevance whatsoever if the game were indeed RANDOM

Moving from slot to slot, or from casino to casino, seems to make one "luckier", but it shouldn't

 

[jod5413]

Vinyl, I am not talking about random, or even luck. I am talking about boredom! Theoretically any spin can be a winner, but after spinning tons of times and still not having a winner pop up, wouldn't you go and try a different slot?

 

[silcnlayc]

jod5413 Vinyl, I am not talking about random, or even luck. I am talking about boredom! Theoretically any spin can be a winner, but after spinning tons of times and still not having a winner pop up, wouldn't you go and try a different slot?

What do you do when they all turn out to be the same dead spins even when you keep trying different ones???

.

 

[Mirvel]

Vinyl, I am not talking about random, or even luck. I am talking about boredom! Theoretically any spin can be a winner, but after spinning tons of times and still not having a winner pop up, wouldn't you go and try a different slot?

thats the problem..........................
on thunderstruck 2 i got 2 scatters every 5-10-20 spins???
and besides that how would i last 6 hours on a 2.10 bet
if i did not get some win?
if they really dont give me a thing at all i try other games...also on other groups/casino's...
we know more about slots/videoslots/poker/roulette/blackjack/minigames or w/e than you can think of.
The programmers here create similar games
So dont think we did not try w/e you can think of and more...

what really makes me mad is before i started to deposit 100's and more at MC i asked in 2-3 diff live chats how the games work.
because in our eyes it apears as if they are all connected....
and they all said NO!! Only the games that use the mega moolah jackpot are.
and now they just admitted that they are connected.... and it can indeed happen that you play a game that apears to be "hot" all of a sudden wont give a thing anymore because another player won big..
QUOTE from live chat: it apears another player at this casino or another casino had a really big win on the game you play.
But i am not playing a mega moolah game?
NOW what the **** does that mean?
now we understand whats going on at MC....
that also explains why the reels wil stop at those times in a different order than they usualy do or why you get disconected and you get asigned to another session....what you dont know as player but you can see in their software data
They cant have to many winners (and there are winners at MC that is true) but it apears that they decide WHO wins..... and it is based on DECEPTION and it is MISLEADING because i already lost my money because of what they showed me while i was playing.
and they told me the games/players are NOT all connected and im not playing against other players. BIG FAT LIE.
this also means i am fighting against the luck of other players at
MICROGAMING....DECEPTION......MISLEADING......PULLING MY LEG
AND MANY OTHERS........ software
Good luck with it.

 

[trade]

Why would anyone stay on a slot that is cold as you know what? When I play, if I am not even getting little boosts here and there, I am gone to find another slot that might like me better. I have never, ever stayed on a cold slot til I bust out. Part of the fun of gambling is that you are trying to beat the casino. To play hundreds of spins that are taking your money over and over, why do you not go somewhere else?

I am not trying to be an a$$, though I do that quite well sometimes. I am honestly very curious.

I totally agree with moving off of dead slots. I don't know how the software is built re. players habit to stick on one slot determined to hit the mother load sooner than later (and often busting out), but time after time has taught me not to stay on a dead slot. Revisit it maybe after several other games (or another day), including poker, but it certainly feels like the software recognizes human tendency to try and recover losses on a slot that sucked up a lot of our $$. Nothing but personal experience to back this up with. If I don't get a hit on a slot after about 8 or so spins, I move on. Sometimes you get a good hit on the first spin and nothing afterwards as well, which is a different kind of "slot / gambler psychology" thinking you may have hit a "hot" one.

Is it possible that the software is built with known gambler's tendencies built in, including upping one's bet even after multiple losses have occurred... i.e. "it must be time!!" ?

Vinyl Weatherman, haven't you said before that you believe that the games seem to have "memory"? (I sure feels that way on BDBA!) The debate of "random" will never cease I am sure... how the software developers write a random software with a "memory" is what I would love to know i.e. if there is some sort of possibility to do this. I mostly play at MG and I am happy with them overall... well that is a very select few of them. I have mostly better luck without a bonus, but I am not as patient as Kasino King!

 

[Mirvel]

RANDOM is explained really easy.
Computer based RANDOM uses TIME/DATE as a variable.
Why time? because time is NEVER the same. therefor the sum is always diff while the awnser can be anything....
memory?
time as a variable tells u not only what time(awnser) it wil be over 1 sec or 40 sec or w/e
it also shows what time(answer) it was 1 sec or 240000000 sec ago.
it might apear that the system is learning and in a way it does but not as you would think.
it already knows what u did and when u did it (all you could do was press a button while the system already knew the answer and ur previous choices and if the game balance alows a big or small or no win)
TIME/DATE is everything......
DONT believe in what you see.........
I bet ur withdrawals vs deposits wil tell the true story in the end.............
MICROGAMING = DECEPTION and MISLEADING. and stil one of the best on the net.... amazing.............

 

[everyday]

My gut feeling is that the casinos and MGS see the writing on the wall. After 5 years of playing primarily at MG casinos and having seen the good and the bad, it has finally turned ugly, especially in the last year. With the new year approaching, I believe quite a few players are going to pack it in with online casinos and I will be one of them.

As a VIP at two major accredited groups, I have seen play time and payouts decrease continously. But the best was yesterday after having tried out the new games in "real" at 2 separate casinos, and not getting a bonus round in either, I switched to "fun" as I was really curious to see the bonus round in Wild Santas Ride. Well, playing $3 a spin and 450 spins later, the bonus round arrived and returned a paltry $50 for the experience. So even "fun mode" has gone tight You have to laugh when even "fun" becomes a drag.

 

[Slotster!]

Why would this have ANY relevance whatsoever if the game were indeed RANDOM

I read a great quote from Steve Jobs once explaining how they had to make the 'shuffle' feature on their ipod less than random; when it was truly random - people were complaining that sometimes the same or similar songs came up straight after each other. As a consequence, they 'de-randomised' it to make the human brain understand it better.

Random slots with a pre-determined RTP make a lot of money for online and land based casinos all over the world -- there's no sense in making them any other way.

 

[leonardo99]

I posted 2 days ago...a post about this...

Thunderstruck2- after more than 200 spins (0.30-0.60 cents) I hit the bonus round..free spins return me an incredible 3$...
Now take a look at Inca Gold Stat (most of the spins played at 1$ -rest was played at 0.20-0.80$)
Expired Image

After 264 spins..NO BONUS ROUND ..

I played before on MG casinos but everytime spins alternate..winning spins with lossing spins..I loosed most of my deposits but at last I had a nice playtime..with adrenaline..Now I only loosing...

 

[LinkinFart]

RANDOM is explained really easy.
Computer based RANDOM uses TIME/DATE as a variable.

If MGS were using TIME/DATE as variable, it wouldnt be long before someone would "crack" the algorithm in RNG and knew exactly what the outcome of every spin would be. I dont know what method MGS is using but there are numerous methods to get that "seed" number for the algorithm not just TIME/DATE.

That is why they are testing RNG for, to see if its "crackable".

 

[LinkinFart]

What do you do when they all turn out to be the same dead spins even when you keep trying different ones???

.

Been there. Try changing slots for 4 hours or even longer without findning a single "hot" slot. Maybe after 20th get one feature that put you in 20xbet positive for that slot but that is it. After bonus is played that slot gets "cold" too.

Usually I confront live support with the fact and in some cases my RTP jumped from somewhere between 60-70% to short period of over 100% until it reaches my starting balance or just under and then its rolling down again with steady 90-95%. That outburst is not just because of single big feature win but few big wins including feature in less than 50 spins.

Most obvious and blatant "rigging" of RTP case I have encountered was when I went down playing several slots. No good feature wins after the first which was in smaller big wins range and no big standard wins, medium size wins did occure normally, and after I contacted support I get, read carefully, 1x 5symbol 2nd highest, 1x 5symbol 3rd highest AND 1x 4symbol 1st highest paying symbol which put me at balance where I began my play that day and all that in total of 9 SPINS. After this set of wins I started floating for a while around that "starting balance" until I stopped playing.

Have another one but post would get too long.

 

[De Beuker]

What do you do when they all turn out to be the same dead spins even when you keep trying different ones???

.

I do what we all do in such a case.
I bust out.

 

[Mirvel]

If MGS were using TIME/DATE as variable, it wouldnt be long before someone would "crack" the algorithm in RNG and knew exactly what the outcome of every spin would be. I dont know what method MGS is using but there are numerous methods to get that "seed" number for the algorithm not just TIME/DATE.

That is why they are testing RNG for, to see if its "crackable".

time/date is one of the vars used u can't create random on time/date alone i though thats obvious....
The other vars used can also be variable not only in value but
also the number of vars used and how they use it.
if done right.....it is 100% unpredictable period
and there lies the problem..........
100% unpredictable means also if you dont controll it you can lose as a casino....
as said by slotster over the ipod and steve jobs
it can indeed happen that the same number wil be showed as awnser
exactly the same can happen in a casinogame thats why it all happens in a controlled environment.
Thats why u get weird stuff as disconnected for no reason(u get another session or a other part from a session)......reels that all of a sudden stop in a diff order.
unless you have acces to the engine self and you can see how and what vars are used you can't crack true random because true random is 100% unpredictable.
Any casino that claims they use a true random generator LIES! period.

 

[LinkinFart]

Here Mirvel read these two if You`re interested in RNG.

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quote: "/derail"

 

[petro]

Lol you think thats bad.
For a Christmas present to myself,
I tried out santas ride on max bet which was $7.50 a spin at the Microgaming casino I play at.
Lost 1k in about 15 mins and finally got the free spins when I had $50 left.
The scatter prize for the free spins was $100 and I won an additional $20 off the 25 free games.
Santas Ride is as steep as a cliff for your bank roll.
I do not recommend.
I don't recommend any slots at any casino unless you want to lose big time.

 

[Mirvel]

Here Mirvel read these two if You`re interested in RNG.

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quote: "/derail"

nothing new there.........
besides the random based on quantum physics.
But since thats new since july 2010.
Interesting line i saw is this one..

Several computational methods for random number generation exist, but often fall short of the goal of true randomness — though they may meet, with varying success, some of the statistical tests for randomness intended to measure how unpredictable their results are (that is, to what degree their patterns are discernible).

like i said before the MAY apear random!
and what do you think that means?
like i said before its easy to beat statistic analizes etc.. and fool whoever you want as long as random apears as rondom.
only way to prove something is wrong is by analizing anomalys
and not what they all do now.....
quote for "anomaly" from wikki:

An anomaly is any occurrence or object that is strange, unusual, or unique. It can also mean a discrepancy or deviation from an established rule, trend, or pattern.

now we all know by now that there are more than enough anomalys to analize in the games from MG.
Only question is why they occure.
and it has NOTHING to do with how its programmed.

 

[LinkinFart]

RANDOM is explained really easy.
Computer based RANDOM uses TIME/DATE as a variable.
Why time? because time is NEVER the same. therefor the sum is always diff TIME/DATE is everything......
DONT believe in what you see.........

I made that remark about RNG only because of this. Not implying anything else.

Seed number in simple RNG is TIME/DATE, but for serious applications second method is used, hardware based RNG.

Whatever method you use that "seed" is only that seed, further in code outcome is determined by algorithms which can be modified to be influenced by anything, from current temperature at the bottom of Tycho crater to average time between mouse movements during your session in casino, color of the certain pixel on screen.

While this have potential to produce random results it is also possible to limit the range of possible outcomes.

For example, casino could limit random pick range to only lowest paying symbols on slots (A, K, Q, J, 10, 9) and just very few only 3 symbol max higher paying symbols. Same goes to any "software" based game, played in B&M or online casinos.

In simple straighforward way. Casino PRNG is using algorithms that produce a result which is used to make a PICK OUT OF OFFERED selections.

If PRNG is not offered all the symbols to choose from, or hands in Poker based games, then some combinations will not appear at all. To "mask" this because it would be too obvious to not show certain winning combinations at all, you can further adjust outcome to allow or even force the outcome of the game to be one of the top paying combinations but ONLY after this game has made profit more than it would pay with that combination.

While I`m on the topic. Even if you use most advanced methods to determine seed number you will still be able to limit selection range and thus limiting randomness/fairness of the outcome.

Anyway, I gave you those links to see differences between simple PRNG and more complex industrial standard PRNG. Simplest method available is TIME/DATE and this method is easily crackable so I dont think it would even pass the RNG certification as such.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Lol you think thats bad.
For a Christmas present to myself,
I tried out santas ride on max bet which was $7.50 a spin at the Microgaming casino I play at.
Lost 1k in about 15 mins and finally got the free spins when I had $50 left.
The scatter prize for the free spins was $100 and I won an additional $20 off the 25 free games.
Santas Ride is as steep as a cliff for your bank roll.
I do not recommend.
I don't recommend any slots at any casino unless you want to lose big time.

..... wish I had done that

 

[Mirvel]

I made that remark about RNG only because of this. Not implying anything else.

Seed number in simple RNG is TIME/DATE, but for serious applications second method is used, hardware based RNG.

Whatever method you use that "seed" is only that seed, further in code outcome is determined by algorithms which can be modified to be influenced by anything, from current temperature at the bottom of Tycho crater to average time between mouse movements during your session in casino, color of the certain pixel on screen.

While this have potential to produce random results it is also possible to limit the range of possible outcomes.

For example, casino could limit random pick range to only lowest paying symbols on slots (A, K, Q, J, 10, 9) and just very few only 3 symbol max higher paying symbols. Same goes to any "software" based game, played in B&M or online casinos.

In simple straighforward way. Casino PRNG is using algorithms that produce a result which is used to make a PICK OUT OF OFFERED selections.

If PRNG is not offered all the symbols to choose from, or hands in Poker based games, then some combinations will not appear at all. To "mask" this because it would be too obvious to not show certain winning combinations at all, you can further adjust outcome to allow or even force the outcome of the game to be one of the top paying combinations but ONLY after this game has made profit more than it would pay with that combination.

While I`m on the topic. Even if you use most advanced methods to determine seed number you will still be able to limit selection range and thus limiting randomness/fairness of the outcome.

Anyway, I gave you those links to see differences between simple PRNG and more complex industrial standard PRNG. Simplest method available is TIME/DATE and this method is easily crackable so I dont think it would even pass the RNG certification as such.

Many methods available crapy and good ones...
i should have said for EXAMPLE.....TIME/DATE is only a variable that can be used in a or more method's, that you can use for more than one purpose(for example "player memory" milions of other ways to do that but it was a example....)
I know "random" is more complex than that i tried to make it a bit(0/1) more understandable...
My bad......did not know there where "players" here with more than avarage knowledge and that speak with a certain confidence as if they really know whats going on and what providers use etc....wonder why or how come?

Besides that, all that matters to me is the end result.
Is the rest important for me as a player or any other player? no.

I decide to play based on what they show me and the suggestion's they trow at me and not to find out later that it might change as you play.

If you really think its all the same for land based casino's and internet casino's (as far as it goes for slots/videoslots) than i got to say you are wrong for a big part. i dont know all slots over the world but i do know a lot of em and what i know is that in europe most are based on a entire diff system than what i see online.
i wish it was the same.....(i can explain the diff if you want)
it can be the same. No problem.
if i can do it...anyone can.
question is why dont they do it?
would be really nice if someone could explain that.

 

[LinkinFart]

Difference between B&M and online casinos when we talk about slots and other software based games is that online casino CAN indeed track your win/loss ratio and run it down to average 95% payout as compared to B&M where you would have to use some loyalty card or similar for them to keep track of it.

Now, do I believe that they do track my wins? This one is not easy to prove, its even harder than proving/disproving that online poker is "rigged". In my opinion I am somewhat leaning more toward opinion that they do keep track of your deposit/cashout ratio but its still not over 75% certainty that this works this way. I believe there are other variables in formulae such as total playtime or additional income opportunities (affiliates). In my opinion I think that most influential variable in this equation is country of residence and average income per capita for country that player resides in.

On the other hand, do I believe that they can alter the payout ratio for each player? That I do believe.

And for expertise level of posters here, I dont find myself to be more educated in or acquainted with methods online casinos work, I rank somewhere in the middle I guess. More willing to speak about some things openly than others that I am, perhaps because of the fact that I am not a person that will put money before ethics. I am not one of those that will seek scientific proof even though I am aware that I cannot acquire that proof during one lifetime alone. I tend to use more or less educated/philosophical guesses instead.

When we are talking about gambling, online or B&M, house ALWAYS has the edge and they are going to make money in the long run no matter what strategy player uses, slots and VP related, so I strongly agitate for complete transparency and fairness of the online games. It is more convinient to play from your home than going somewhere else, also choice of games is and could be even more diverse, so online casinos have this advantage over B&M casinos from start which means more players from already made player base could play online instead of going to B&M. Add into equation the availability and openness of online casinos to new players from all over the world that have never gambled before in their lives makes money making opportunities even bigger. Is this a cutthroat business, IT IS and I believe this is why every online casino at some point choose to begin altering odds to be more in their favor.

Mirvel, if I sounded offensive in any of my posts it was really unintended and this could be due to fact that some combination of words sound offensive when written, they lack intonation which defines them more clearly. I just wanted to share what had to be shared thats all.

If you really think its all the same for land based casino's and internet casino's (as far as it goes for slots/videoslots) than i got to say you are wrong for a big part. i dont know all slots over the world but i do know a lot of em and what i know is that in europe most are based on a entire diff system than what i see online.

I`m sorry if I misunderstood this one, correct me if I`m wrong.

Difference that You`re mentioning could come from the fact that slots/VP in B&M casinos cant track every customers win/loss ratio. They are most likely set to keep track of their own payout percentage and vary RNG selection range based on that variable only. So you could indeed run into hot/cold slots/VP in B&M and since player record is not a variable in payout equation you would get, although still being pseudo random, result that is closer to truly random outcome. Is this the difference You are talking about?

If so, even though game outcome of B&M slots/vp appears to be more random it still isnt truly random because of the fact that they do put previous payouts into equation determining the outcome of future games.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The major software suppliers boast of the wealth of "back end" functions offered to "manage your players".

They can track pretty much everything except what you are wearing in front of your PC.

What matters is how this information is used.

It is clear that casinos track various parameters, such as deposits, withdrawals, total wagering, and on which games. This information's use is pretty obvious when it comes to sudden changes in the promotions offered, or sudden "bonus bans" even though you have not gone anywhere near the boundaries of the terms, let alone broken them.

The fact that you can be congratulated by a chat rep almost as soon as you hit big shows this tracking is done, and can be acted on, in real time.

Some casinos start out by offering a regular and very predictable regime of promotions, and I have seen sudden downward adjustments after WEEKS of getting the same offer, which just so happen to be after I make a withdrawal. Coincidence? No - tracking, and acting upon a step change in the stats.

I sometimes do a bit of "tracking" myself

GNUF - lost over £3000, and my weekend promos stayed at a high level for a long while.

Betway - early withdrawal, followed by another. This has lead to me only being down 1000 or less most of the time. My promos started the same as at GNUF, but steadily reduced, and have now vanished completely as of the middle of last month. Clearly this is the result of individual player tracking being used to generate the promotions.

Last weekend, I cashed in my comps at GNUF, about £35, and worked it up to £800. THIS weekend has seen the most dramatic fall yet in my regular weekend promotion. The norm has been 60% to 80% up to £300 or so, but now it is 25% up to £200. This must be down to the £800 withdrawal having quite an effect on my tracking stats.

Not all casinos seem to alter the offers based on individual player stats. Some give the same offer to everybody regardless, and others simply "bonus ban" a player once their stats reach a certain level. Games played, as well as general stats, seem to play a role.

 

[plasticnote]

Hi vinylweatherman:

Tracking customer/client/user, it is normal in every business.

I for myself, more want to know if the system can alter an outcome of a particular RNG draw. I am not saying rigged here, what I mean is that the RTP of slots are more artificial, so casino will have a much short period to get 5% rather than waiting on the math does it due course.

Only by this way, software can guarantee profits for clients and make sure that not on the 1st day the client will be hit by few big ones and go under.

I hope by your very deep knowledge and understand, you could give me an answer. Having been reading your posts back to 2006, I think I got more 5 rams on TS1 than you by the time of 2009.

Merry X 'mas, vinylweatherman, you entitled to be the real slots king

 

[Deeplay]

Yes tracking is normal. When I played at FL and hit a good run the bonuses on offer immediatly dropped to 20 or 25% up to a few 100. When I had sustained losses followed by maybe a week or 2 without play then the weekly offers increased. Then when I stopped totally to deposit the bonuses on offer shot up to a high of 150% up to 1000. CDS emails etc.

Other casino outfits dont follow this rule and seem to offer the same no matter if you win or loose but these are usually the casinos that are not known for huge comps of bonus offers such as 32red and ladbrokes. Maybe I should widen my choice of casinos again as bonus offers at the MGS i play at are few and far between at the moment, no doubt due to the fact that im way up for november by at least 5 grand. The RTGS I play at continually offer bonuses but with insane playthroughs etc they never get more than micky mouse money from me. If I hit fine cash out if not then no real damage done.

 

[De Beuker]

The major software suppliers boast of the wealth of "back end" functions offered to "manage your players".

They can track pretty much everything except what you are wearing in front of your PC.

What matters is how this information is used.

It is clear that casinos track various parameters, such as deposits, withdrawals, total wagering, and on which games. This information's use is pretty obvious when it comes to sudden changes in the promotions offered, or sudden "bonus bans" even though you have not gone anywhere near the boundaries of the terms, let alone broken them.

The fact that you can be congratulated by a chat rep almost as soon as you hit big shows this tracking is done, and can be acted on, in real time.

Some casinos start out by offering a regular and very predictable regime of promotions, and I have seen sudden downward adjustments after WEEKS of getting the same offer, which just so happen to be after I make a withdrawal. Coincidence? No - tracking, and acting upon a step change in the stats.

I sometimes do a bit of "tracking" myself

GNUF - lost over £3000, and my weekend promos stayed at a high level for a long while.

Betway - early withdrawal, followed by another. This has lead to me only being down 1000 or less most of the time. My promos started the same as at GNUF, but steadily reduced, and have now vanished completely as of the middle of last month. Clearly this is the result of individual player tracking being used to generate the promotions.

Last weekend, I cashed in my comps at GNUF, about £35, and worked it up to £800. THIS weekend has seen the most dramatic fall yet in my regular weekend promotion. The norm has been 60% to 80% up to £300 or so, but now it is 25% up to £200. This must be down to the £800 withdrawal having quite an effect on my tracking stats.

Not all casinos seem to alter the offers based on individual player stats. Some give the same offer to everybody regardless, and others simply "bonus ban" a player once their stats reach a certain level. Games played, as well as general stats, seem to play a role.

About your Betway/Gnuf promotions, dont think it has anything to do with your withdrawl, as my promotions went the same way.
All the weekly GNUF reloadbonuses have vanished completely for the past 4 weeks or so, and all I got offered from Betway is that 25% from yesterday's offer.
Before that I got the weekly 70%/80% or even 100% at both.
No cashouts from GNUF in the past 4 months, only one small cashout from Betway in November.
It seems like they have cut back on their reload offers as a whole.

And now I cannot even take up on the offer as Neteller is down again ever since midnight!

But casino's definately track what you're doing, its all software and I guess there are many options available.
I remember I was playing once at a Micro, got my 25.- depost up to 250.- and opened the cashier to withdraw the winnings.
A chatwindow popped up immediately, and the chatrep offered me a 50.- bonus if I left the cashier and continued wagering.
Stupid enough I said yes, regretted that at first, but made them pay in the end cashing out twice the amount I would have cashed out originally.

But she knew exactly when I entered the cashier to withdraw..

I dont believe games can be altered per individual account based on previous winnings.
If that were true, BDBA at 32RED would never have paid me a penny anymore
after my big hit last year.

 

[De Beuker]

About the randomness of the games, I dont believe for a split second that the games are 100% truly random.
They are random, but to a certain point, there is definately some sort of control over the payout.
Every spin is independent from every other spin? No way.

After a big hit, the games usually go into non-paying modus.
I was playing LOTR last week, for hundreds of spins the game was playing very nice, no big hits, but lots of wilds and hits in the 10-50x bet range to keep me going.
Then it died. No more wilds, no more rings, no more wins except from an occasional 3xJ, 4x10, that crap.
After 70 spins I gave up, went back to the lobby, themometer dropped to 80.

I've seen that happen so many times it cannot possibly be coincidense.
Just watch the meter with games like CentreCourt, Alaskan Fishing, Silver Fang, LOTR, Pure Platinum, and you will see there is definately a relationship between the game paying zilch (no more wilds/scatters) and a very low metervalue.


And why does that scatter on the last reel always pop up the spin AFTER you need it?!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi vinylweatherman:

Tracking customer/client/user, it is normal in every business.

I for myself, more want to know if the system can alter an outcome of a particular RNG draw. I am not saying rigged here, what I mean is that the RTP of slots are more artificial, so casino will have a much short period to get 5% rather than waiting on the math does it due course.

Only by this way, software can guarantee profits for clients and make sure that not on the 1st day the client will be hit by few big ones and go under.

I hope by your very deep knowledge and understand, you could give me an answer. Having been reading your posts back to 2006, I think I got more 5 rams on TS1 than you by the time of 2009.

Merry X 'mas, vinylweatherman, you entitled to be the real slots king

I know "startyourowncasino" offers software boasting "our proprietry RNG calculates your profit before returning the result to the game", so in this case the outcome IS influenced by whether the player is doing well or badly. UK Fruit machines work on the same principle in order to guarantee a profit for the operator.

Online, this is classed as "cheating software", and can be found in the rogue pit.

Most other casinos use tracking to direct their marketing, so a winning player would tend to get fewer offers, but would get the SAME chances on the games as anybody else.

Some of the examples like chat popping up seconds after a specific event, and KNOWING that event has just happened, prove that this tracking is watched closely, and in real time. This may not necessarily mean human agents look at every spin for every player, but that software has set trigger points it looks for, and alerts an agent the instant one of these trigger points is set off. This makes it look like the agent was watching your every move themselves.

I doubt casinos even have enough staff to watch every player this closely.

 

[Achenar]

About the randomness of the games, I dont believe for a split second that the games are 100% truly random.
They are random, but to a certain point, there is definately some sort of control over the payout.

After a big hit, the games usually go into non-paying modus.

And why does that scatter on the last reel always pop up the spin AFTER you need it?!

Funny you mention this cause ive noticed this yrs ago. This is why i stopped online gambling.Always as soon as you hit something decent it always goes sour.This isn't just my imagination it's a fact.Now you posting exactly what i knew yrs ago confirms my suspicion.As for people betting high getting nothing then lowering bet only to win is very rogue to me.coincidence i think not when so many have same issue.Not complaining just verfiying.

As for the scatters popping up after you needed it is called (eye candy) makes you think oh well if i keep spinning i should hit it(chasing) but thats like trying to catch a fish in water with your hands.So close but yet so far.

 

[Mirvel]

i am glad to see that i am not the only one with issue's like the one's mentioned above.
That more people notice things that should not happen.
with the scatters and the temperature dropped to 80 at the same time your game goes from pretty hot to stonecold.
online and fair....where?

 

[hussainyes]

hello my friend

Hi all,
after i complained against microgaming 1-2 weeks ago....
the weirdest things happen...

i played on thunderstruck 2 for 6 HOURS on 2.10 bet!!
3 times the free spins with an avarage win of 10-15 times my bet.....
NOT once did i had the WILDSTORM feature.....(lost 800-900$)
As soon as i lowered my bet (i was almost broke) to 60ct
First spin WILDSTORM WITH 60 times my bet
Second spin FREE spins 60 times my bet.....
fourth spin free spins 60 times my bet......
I raise my bet again to 2.10 and was broke in 10 min....
few days later.......... other casino.....
exactly the same story?????? again i lost close to 800$ had 2 times the free spins with 5-10 times my bet and not one time the WILDSTORM FEATURE

TALLY HO SLOT...... im playing on a 1.80 bet for 2 hours
NOT once the free spins got 1 nice win and thats it.
played somewhere between 700 and 1000 spins stil no free spins. lost 700$

Break da bank.........1137 spins no free spins.
second try on break da bank........ 300 spins yes free spins and i got 2.2 times
my bet....................1400+ spins to get 1 time the free spins???????
3th attempt on break da bank.......
after well over 950spins i got the free spins and won 2.2 times my bet......
2500 spins and i got 2 times the free spins and a total of 4.4 times my bet!!!!
and not once a big win.......lost 700-800$

ISIS, beach babes, thunderstruck 1...... on avarage i get the free spins once for every 400-500 spins played
and 20 times my bet as win.lost 600$


20 min ago i stopped playing the new game Royal feast i believe...
700 spins... not once the free spins........

Santa's wild ride...... got 1 time the free spins with an amazing 6 times my bet

thats all i had with 4000$ deposit past week

THATS NOT NORMALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am a MC player for 3-4 years now and this NEVER happend before .... not even close to that..... everything got much worse after i complained against microgaming and i started talking and post here in the forum.......

now i noticed more and more players complaining about MC some say
we should work together as players if we want to make a difference.
Why dont we? why dont we gather as much as we can over MC and make a point?
i can prove they lie............
I can prove they alter the games during play........
If i check my deposit history i get numbers much lower than what my VISA card and my neteller acount tell me.....
if i check my withdrawal history i get numbers much bigger than my neteller acount tells me....it apears canceld withdrawals are not removed from the system??

anyway i know i am not the only1 with issues like this....
If we want to make a difference we should stand together!
i wil do w/e i need to do.
but i can't do it alone.

u r 1 100 percent right i am with u all the way long in last two weeks i lost lot of money gm casinos mega moolah jackpot does not come any more i swear to god last couple of days i tryed it with 32red and all 32 red casinos, platanam casino and about 20 more mg casinos i think gm has switch it of mg casinos r geting very very bad the best mg casino is ladbrokes swear 2 god try them

 

[liseleva]

Hi all,
after i complained against microgaming 1-2 weeks ago....
the weirdest things happen...

i played on thunderstruck 2 for 6 HOURS on 2.10 bet!!
3 times the free spins with an avarage win of 10-15 times my bet.....
NOT once did i had the WILDSTORM feature.....(lost 800-900$)
As soon as i lowered my bet (i was almost broke) to 60ct
First spin WILDSTORM WITH 60 times my bet
Second spin FREE spins 60 times my bet.....
fourth spin free spins 60 times my bet......
I raise my bet again to 2.10 and was broke in 10 min....
few days later.......... other casino.....
exactly the same story?????? again i lost close to 800$ had 2 times the free spins with 5-10 times my bet and not one time the WILDSTORM FEATURE

TALLY HO SLOT...... im playing on a 1.80 bet for 2 hours
NOT once the free spins got 1 nice win and thats it.
played somewhere between 700 and 1000 spins stil no free spins. lost 700$

Break da bank.........1137 spins no free spins.
second try on break da bank........ 300 spins yes free spins and i got 2.2 times
my bet....................1400+ spins to get 1 time the free spins???????
3th attempt on break da bank.......
after well over 950spins i got the free spins and won 2.2 times my bet......
2500 spins and i got 2 times the free spins and a total of 4.4 times my bet!!!!
and not once a big win.......lost 700-800$

ISIS, beach babes, thunderstruck 1...... on avarage i get the free spins once for every 400-500 spins played
and 20 times my bet as win.lost 600$


20 min ago i stopped playing the new game Royal feast i believe...
700 spins... not once the free spins........

Santa's wild ride...... got 1 time the free spins with an amazing 6 times my bet

thats all i had with 4000$ deposit past week

THATS NOT NORMALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am a MC player for 3-4 years now and this NEVER happend before .... not even close to that..... everything got much worse after i complained against microgaming and i started talking and post here in the forum.......

now i noticed more and more players complaining about MC some say
we should work together as players if we want to make a difference.
Why dont we? why dont we gather as much as we can over MC and make a point?
i can prove they lie............
I can prove they alter the games during play........
If i check my deposit history i get numbers much lower than what my VISA card and my neteller acount tell me.....
if i check my withdrawal history i get numbers much bigger than my neteller acount tells me....it apears canceld withdrawals are not removed from the system??

anyway i know i am not the only1 with issues like this....
If we want to make a difference we should stand together!
i wil do w/e i need to do.
but i can't do it alone.

Finally somebody that notice what is going on...I completely understand and Iam glad that somebodyelse noticed it

 

[vinylweatherman]

u r 1 100 percent right i am with u all the way long in last two weeks i lost lot of money gm casinos mega moolah jackpot does not come any more i swear to god last couple of days i tryed it with 32red and all 32 red casinos, platanam casino and about 20 more mg casinos i think gm has switch it of mg casinos r geting very very bad the best mg casino is ladbrokes swear 2 god try them

There IS a "switch" on Mega Moolah. MGS once made a mistake with it and turned it so far down that even the MINI was climbing close to a thousand, and the MINOR was usually reaching a couple of thousand before triggering. This was just so OBVIOUSLY not down to "random chance", as the norm is for the MINI to hit in low double figures, and the MINOR to hit in the low hundreds.

MGS kept VERY quiet about the whole affair, and quietly fixed the issue a couple of weeks later, and the jackpots reverted to triggering at their more usual values. The fact that these meters were displayed all the time, and it seemed no-one was getting the jackpot wheel during this time (no "jackpot has been won by another player" messages were appearing either), made it really obvious, more so than bad sessions following a slot temperature drop to 80.

 

[silcnlayc]

vinylweatherman: There IS a "switch" on Mega Moolah. MGS once made a mistake with it and turned it so far down that even the MINI was climbing close to a thousand, and the MINOR was usually reaching a couple of thousand before triggering. This was just so OBVIOUSLY not down to "random chance", as the norm is for the MINI to hit in low double figures, and the MINOR to hit in the low hundreds.

MGS kept VERY quiet about the whole affair, and quietly fixed the issue a couple of weeks later, and the jackpots reverted to triggering at their more usual values. The fact that these meters were displayed all the time, and it seemed no-one was getting the jackpot wheel during this time (no "jackpot has been won by another player" messages were appearing either), made it really obvious, more so than bad sessions following a slot temperature drop to 80.

I think this can apply to the RTG's mini and major jackpots also. They were created to go off more often than the random...but it seems they forgot to turn the "switch" on for them...since they are not going off at all...Just my observation the last few years...or whenever they were introduced..I kept an eye on them and they are dead....continuing to climb...casinos really do believe we, as gamblers do not notice these things...silly people that they are..

.

 

[everyday]

...casinos really do believe we, as gamblers do not notice these things...silly people that they are..

.

My thoughts exactly..we all have a gut instinct that we should rely on and trust. Unfortunately the casinos too often view us as "the silly people"

 

[yameater]

Yep, something is NOT right at MG

I have to say, I too have noticed the last year has been terrible for playing at MG. I am by no means a big better (usually .45 to .90 cent bets). When I do hit a feature though, I've noticed no playback at all. On Ladies Night one day I hit the free spins with a .54 bet and got a whopping $2.75 win with it.... and it happened again and again. I would like to think it's just a bad spell, but when you've played for 11 years, you certainly notice these bad sessions becoming more and more frequent. I play a lot less often, and now I just put about $25.00 in and play .90 a spin and hope for the best. So far...NO BEST!

 

[unhappy]

RANDOM is explained really easy.
Computer based RANDOM uses TIME/DATE as a variable.
Why time? because time is NEVER the same. therefor the sum is always diff while the awnser can be anything....
memory?
time as a variable tells u not only what time(awnser) it wil be over 1 sec or 40 sec or w/e
it also shows what time(answer) it was 1 sec or 240000000 sec ago.
it might apear that the system is learning and in a way it does but not as you would think.
it already knows what u did and when u did it (all you could do was press a button while the system already knew the answer and ur previous choices and if the game balance alows a big or small or no win)
TIME/DATE is everything......
DONT believe in what you see.........
I bet ur withdrawals vs deposits wil tell the true story in the end.............
MICROGAMING = DECEPTION and MISLEADING. and stil one of the best on the net.... amazing.............

yes i agree amazing,i truly believe that like you said that the software knows what it paid you therefore it knows when to give and when to take not like land line casinos they dont know your ip number. im really wondering if the soft ware is rigged from micro gaming. everytime ive played over the years i have seen a pattern and it aint random.

 

[unhappy]

I have to say, I too have noticed the last year has been terrible for playing at MG. I am by no means a big better (usually .45 to .90 cent bets). When I do hit a feature though, I've noticed no playback at all. On Ladies Night one day I hit the free spins with a .54 bet and got a whopping $2.75 win with it.... and it happened again and again. I would like to think it's just a bad spell, but when you've played for 11 years, you certainly notice these bad sessions becoming more and more frequent. I play a lot less often, and now I just put about $25.00 in and play .90 a spin and hope for the best. So far...NO BEST!

well allslots just took 3600 with nothing in the last 3months ,32red took 1200 like it was water ,foretune lounge group casinos lost about 4000 there ,spin palaace group lost about 3000 there nothing and belle rock 2500 nothing there and probably another 5000 that i cant ermember and yes i agreee 90 percent of the time i played at micro gaming casino i spun nothing are i;d hit 50 cents . hmmmm i think i should have stayed aty playtech i won 72000 at titan casino but it took 10000 dollars of my own money and 22000 in bonus money to get that ,micro gaming casinos an embarrassing couple hundred dollars

 

[vinylweatherman]

yes i agree amazing,i truly believe that like you said that the software knows what it paid you therefore it knows when to give and when to take not like land line casinos they dont know your ip number. im really wondering if the soft ware is rigged from micro gaming. everytime ive played over the years i have seen a pattern and it aint random.

As an UK based FRUIT MACHINE player, I am highly skilled when it comes to "rigged slots", so imagine my utter ELATION when MGS introduced TRUE TO LIFE "Fruit Machines". These Microgaming "AWP" games are where I have had by far my BIGGEST wins, and at a far LOWER stake than the big hits from the other games.

My record for a standard slot is just over 10K on Munchkins, and this took MANY retriggers of free spins gained on a £67.50 bet.

AWP games however, have provided records of £7K from a £2 bet, and 15K from both £10 and £5 bets.

Even my massive £52K streak was beaten by another player, who trousered almost 70K from a streak off "Game On".

These AWP games DO seem to have been "turned down" a little this year, but since these are "rigged" Fruit Machine style games, they can STILL be beaten occasionally.

I have also noticed cycles in the standard slots, where it seems the appearance of scatters follows a cycle, and free spin rounds come in clusters.

It seems possible to get a feel for whether free spins are "due" by how the scatters behave in normal spins. This "feeling" is right far too often