Maybe it's just me - pub machine questions

ChopleyIOM

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But we are straying from the main point which is why is nobody providing machines that pub patrons actually want to play? Pub clientele is not Arcade clientele, is not Casino clientele. Most people don't want to spend hours mastering a machine, but if putting a few coins in gives the fun of getting a few coins back, loads of casual players would start playing again.

Sorry Mr Dog not got time to post a full reply at this moment in time, will catch up with this thread properly and post a more considered reply in due course.

However, I have covered your basic question there many times on my channel over the last year. (TL: DR - Stakes and jackpots got too big, far too many 'player advantage' methods that left bugger all for average punters to play for, clearly rigged gambles and features etc.)

Here's a starter for ten though, the 'pub machine' market is actually very healthy here on the Isle of Man, but we have different legislation to the UK which allows random machines with a £500 jackpot to be sited in the pubs here, and they do very, very well. In this video I discuss how the traditional pub fruity is nearly extinct on the Isle of Man now, but random games are doing a booming trade......

 

KasinoKing

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Maybe I was being too coy with my age, I was actually talking about late '60s early '70s when you either had no features at all or maybe just hold buttons. If you were really lucky you might also be allowed a small number of nudges once in a while.

To those above who said "too complicated" nowadays, yes thank you for that, you confirm one of my points...
My era was mid 70's to early 90's.

And yeah - I forgot about that point - why don't fruit machines have frigging instructions on them??? :mad:
When I have occasionally played modern ones and been offers a "bonus feature" I don't have the faintest clue what 90% of them actually do!
It's just ridiculous.

KK
 

Jd666

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I still occasionally pop into an arcade when I am in town to play the multiplayers, did get a £118 win bank for 3 quid in the other day on a double decker, well plus another couple of quid for the board carrying on.
Ended up walking 200 up for about a hours play. Was more up but a partytime took ages to go up and gave me 2 quid haha, then tried for another win and couldnt be arsed anymore.
A lot of inland arcades dont even have Hi-tec machines anymore like the Deal Or No Deals and Betcom machines (well not around my area)
They are full of Barcrest 777 cabs, Admiral cabs, other video cabs, multiplayers and Bar X type machines.
Can be found in the pubs but I dont touch them.
I do play them at the coast when I go as you find some of the older machines, but even those are vanishing now except for places like Reelfruits.
Instant payouts and no KYC haha.
And FFS Astra, how many clones of Bullion Bars can you churn out.

Agree with Jono, couldnt fault the late 80's and 90's when I was on a shit wage but subsidised by my local arcade.
Thank you Project, Ace and BWB.

Meanwhile, I am going to see if the white fluffy bunny is in a kind mood
 
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JGslots

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A85E317A-7D1F-4DA8-A9F6-2905D62D4D21.jpeg

Just have this image in my head that Tracemonkey was the lead on the design of this game or Screen Play :D

Pub fruits used to be amazing right up until even very recently with the likes of Powerplay or Batman Power Up.

I always found the good compensated machines to have separate pots, which was nice if you could identify those, for example a bust pot, deal pot or a pot on the power play button.

My most favourable era was defiantly Red Gaming, they made some quality games, which gave clear signs when they could be forced, for example; going through the block or showing lots of red features on low nudge win boards.

What games of gone by did you have involvement in Trance?

Rob :)
 

ChopleyIOM

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Pub fruits used to be amazing right up until even very recently with the likes of Powerplay or Batman Power Up.

My most favourable era was defiantly Red Gaming, they made some quality games, which gave clear signs when they could be forced, for example; going through the block or showing lots of red features on low nudge win boards.

The thing there Rob is you're just comparing one range of 'doable' machines with another range of 'doable' machines. Poweplay (Batman Power Up being a clone of course) is one of the most manipulation vulnerable machines ever, which when done by a player will leave absolutely nothing behind for an average punter, who'll well and truly do his plums in it.

But exactly the same was true for Reds, if you knew the good signs to look for, and had the bankroll and balls to force them out, even on a £25 jackpot they could streak for £125, which once again leaves an absolutely battered machine in your wake which will take regular punters apart, giving them zero entertainment and zero chance to win, which I think is what Racing Dog was objecting to in his first post.

I made some really good money round here on the £70 jackpot Reds, as no one else seemed to be prepared to force the things out (which could cost well over £100, or even £150+ on a bad day), but some Reds could do £210 streaks (which I had on several occasions), can you imagine the carnage for a regular player, walking up to a compensated machine on a 76% payout that's just chucked £210 out at me?......

The truth of the matter is that compensated AWPs are good if you know the tricks/methods/emptiers, and pretty awful for everyone else.

Random machines have done incredibly well in pubs here, and effectively forced the compensated AWP into extinction. Everyone understands random, everyone understands having the same chance to win as anyone else, and that's been a really big draw for them here. People who stopped playing compensated AWPs years ago because they're so fucking bent, are happily playing random games in the pubs again.

What games of gone by did you have involvement in Trance?

Rob :)

I would be very interested in this also :)
 

maxd

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affiliates incoming,no one can ever get a thread in here without same people attacking and insinuating that your a moron for making a post,maybe its just the money train they gotta try to keep going,still to me seems rude

Obviously Casinomeister is not the site you are looking for. Happy trails to you!
 

JGslots

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The thing there Rob is you're just comparing one range of 'doable' machines with another range of 'doable' machines. Poweplay (Batman Power Up being a clone of course) is one of the most manipulation vulnerable machines ever, which when done by a player will leave absolutely nothing behind for an average punter, who'll well and truly do his plums in it.

But exactly the same was true for Reds, if you knew the good signs to look for, and had the bankroll and balls to force them out, even on a £25 jackpot they could streak for £125, which once again leaves an absolutely battered machine in your wake which will take regular punters apart, giving them zero entertainment and zero chance to win, which I think is what Racing Dog was objecting to in his first post.

I made some really good money round here on the £70 jackpot Reds, as no one else seemed to be prepared to force the things out (which could cost well over £100, or even £150+ on a bad day), but some Reds could do £210 streaks (which I had on several occasions), can you imagine the carnage for a regular player, walking up to a compensated machine on a 76% payout that's just chucked £210 out at me?......

The truth of the matter is that compensated AWPs are good if you know the tricks/methods/emptiers, and pretty awful for everyone else.

Random machines have done incredibly well in pubs here, and effectively forced the compensated AWP into extinction. Everyone understands random, everyone understands having the same chance to win as anyone else, and that's been a really big draw for them here. People who stopped playing compensated AWPs years ago because they're so fucking bent, are happily playing random games in the pubs again.



I would be very interested in this also :)


Some Red Gamimgs had seperate pots also, you could look to take a notation from the red boxes on the reels and this was separate to the main game, this was on a few Reds at the time.

Sorry, maybe I did home in on Powerplay lol, but yes most playable machines had a separate pot like for the bust, Deal game etc.

Some compensated lo tech games operated with separate pots, one of which was on the FOBT’s, my favourite was Power of Olympus or Golden Scrolls, both excellent very readable games. The base game was 1 Pot and the super game was another pot, the base game was separate pots for each stake. You could tell if the machine was ‘ready’ by simply playing to see how many winlines it was awarding in the super game, if it was only ever awarding 1 line wins then it had no value, if it was offering 2 or more winning lines then was worth a punt.

I made really well from these games, I don’t think they was really targeted by players or professionals, they did remove all these games after around a year though sadly.

They’ve made some absolute corkers on the bookies FOBT’s, from stake manipulation errors, loyalty card exploits, exiting games on repeat chances lol.

Rob :)
 

trancemonkey

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View attachment 98924

Just have this image in my head that Tracemonkey was the lead on the design of this game or Screen Play :D

Pub fruits used to be amazing right up until even very recently with the likes of Powerplay or Batman Power Up.

I always found the good compensated machines to have separate pots, which was nice if you could identify those, for example a bust pot, deal pot or a pot on the power play button.

My most favourable era was defiantly Red Gaming, they made some quality games, which gave clear signs when they could be forced, for example; going through the block or showing lots of red features on low nudge win boards.

What games of gone by did you have involvement in Trance?

Rob :)

I started at Mazooma, then went to JPM, then Impulse up until Maygay was dissolved and became Revolution and then Inspired. There were only three of us coding at Impulse so I had a hand in most games from Wipeout onwards.

Remember Red Arrow at JPM? ;)
 

trancemonkey

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View attachment 98924

Just have this image in my head that Tracemonkey was the lead on the design of this game or Screen Play :D

I'm not old enough... The first game I ever worked on / designed was Disco Inferno at Mazooma...
 

trancemonkey

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The thing there Rob is you're just comparing one range of 'doable' machines with another range of 'doable' machines. Poweplay (Batman Power Up being a clone of course) is one of the most manipulation vulnerable machines ever, which when done by a player will leave absolutely nothing behind for an average punter, who'll well and truly do his plums in it.

But exactly the same was true for Reds, if you knew the good signs to look for, and had the bankroll and balls to force them out, even on a £25 jackpot they could streak for £125, which once again leaves an absolutely battered machine in your wake which will take regular punters apart, giving them zero entertainment and zero chance to win, which I think is what Racing Dog was objecting to in his first post.

I made some really good money round here on the £70 jackpot Reds, as no one else seemed to be prepared to force the things out (which could cost well over £100, or even £150+ on a bad day), but some Reds could do £210 streaks (which I had on several occasions), can you imagine the carnage for a regular player, walking up to a compensated machine on a 76% payout that's just chucked £210 out at me?......

The truth of the matter is that compensated AWPs are good if you know the tricks/methods/emptiers, and pretty awful for everyone else.

Random machines have done incredibly well in pubs here, and effectively forced the compensated AWP into extinction. Everyone understands random, everyone understands having the same chance to win as anyone else, and that's been a really big draw for them here. People who stopped playing compensated AWPs years ago because they're so fucking bent, are happily playing random games in the pubs again.



I would be very interested in this also :)

Totally right... The problem is that battered machines mean bad experiences. Which puts normal people off them. We need to try and get back to fun games where you can't do your nuts all the time...

Jackpots are too high. Stakes are too high. RTPs are too low...
 

ChopleyIOM

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I started at Mazooma, then went to JPM, then Impulse up until Maygay was dissolved and became Revolution and then Inspired. There were only three of us coding at Impulse so I had a hand in most games from Wipeout onwards.

Remember Red Arrow at JPM? ;)

I quite liked some of Mazooma's machines, they were a bit different from the norm. (Could go horribly wrong on a force though, they didn't respond well to it.)

Impulse did some great stuff, really good sound and music packages although hobbled a bit by the rather explodey EPOCH tech (not many have survived unfortunately, but emulation has us covered!). I just forced all of them out and hoped to get the streak, I remember Grid Runner doing £25 + three repeats on the upgraded £25 ROMs. (Although 'upgrade' is the wrong way to describe it really, since it killed the gameplay, they were much better at the £15 jackpot IMO.)

I do indeed remember Red Arrow, JPM had to absolutely chip the hell out of that thing!

(You're not the same ex-Impulse guy who left a comment on one of my videos recently are you?...... :D)
 

Jono777

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IMO the best times were the £15 JP era, pretty much after that is when things started to go down hill, mainly 25p stakes as the only setting, players would know they stood a good chance of a 'board' or maybe even two from the change from their pint.

That being said my personal best all time memories, stories, enjoyment etc etc were with the £6 - £8 token jackpots, those were proper fruit machines which saw arcades, pubs, motorway SS having their machines played all the time. Profitable for the operators but also gave punters a fair crack of the whip and for the prizes on offer could 'run' to a nice amount when streaking.

As with how I currently feel about the online industry, one thing started the downward spiral - GREED!
 

JGslots

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I'm not old enough... The first game I ever worked on / designed was Disco Inferno at Mazooma...

Was that before Wet and Wild? The weird card reels were great fun, and WnW had a great sound package, generally fun games.
Mazooma's best machine for me, by far, was Golden Game on £25, with the empty in the first program, even after that, they was
great games, they had multiple pots like repeat pot, Let Em Spin pot, Let Em Spin Bars Pot etc, they were amazing games, when
they got released on £35 jackpot I couldn't believe they had made them even better and more profitable!

Mazooma also made a great game called Monopoly Wheel of Wealth, the streak on the original chip was monstrous,
could go for over £175, which on £35 was insane, these came in both single player and multiplayer formats. They was literally everywhere!

Mazooma also made some great £25 Super Skill Stop method machines also, my favourite being Grand Blaster Cash.

It's such a shame manufacturers cant make excellent games like these anymore.
Recently Novomatic released a £100 Golden Game, which in fairness they have not diverted too far away from the original,
but its hardly in any locations, so just goes to show that analogue machines are a dying breed, with only Bullion Bars and clones
really doing well in the lo tech sector still.

I hope you're going to the Meister meeting Trance or this coming ICE, would be great to chat about machines gone by
and another moan about how the industry has declined due to jackpot and stake increases :D


Rob :)
 

JGslots

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IMO the best times were the £15 JP era, pretty much after that is when things started to go down hill, mainly 25p stakes as the only setting, players would know they stood a good chance of a 'board' or maybe even two from the change from their pint.

That being said my personal best all time memories, stories, enjoyment etc etc were with the £6 - £8 token jackpots, those were proper fruit machines which saw arcades, pubs, motorway SS having their machines played all the time. Profitable for the operators but also gave punters a fair crack of the whip and for the prizes on offer could 'run' to a nice amount when streaking.

As with how I currently feel about the online industry, one thing started the downward spiral - GREED!

Fruit machines of that era were both fun and streaky, I don't remember too much as I'm only 32,
but do remember climbing on a stool and feeding my pocket money into a £2 Jackpot Barcrest Line-Up
in the huge arcade on New Brighton Prom lol.

They must have had rows of cloud 999's, golden ghosts and all sorts of treasures.

Rob :)
 

JGslots

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I quite liked some of Mazooma's machines, they were a bit different from the norm. (Could go horribly wrong on a force though, they didn't respond well to it.)

Impulse did some great stuff, really good sound and music packages although hobbled a bit by the rather explodey EPOCH tech (not many have survived unfortunately, but emulation has us covered!). I just forced all of them out and hoped to get the streak, I remember Grid Runner doing £25 + three repeats on the upgraded £25 ROMs. (Although 'upgrade' is the wrong way to describe it really, since it killed the gameplay, they were much better at the £15 jackpot IMO.)

I do indeed remember Red Arrow, JPM had to absolutely chip the hell out of that thing!

(You're not the same ex-Impulse guy who left a comment on one of my videos recently are you?...... :D)

Impulse made some fantastic games, didn't they get swallowed up by Barcrest in the end and IGT?
They seem to make a few shitty £25 games in the Harrison Cabinet, which finished them off?
Actually that could have been Maygay? King Kerching.

Funny Money was a nice game, which also played well on the £5 setting, It was really fun and totally different to all the others, obviously Grid Runner and Wipe Out had the best sounds :D

My favourite Impulse was a rare machine called Dam Busters, it was like a clone of London Underground and Homers Meltdown,
was very rare, such an enjoyable machine to play.

Rob :)
 

JGslots

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@trancemonkey

When the bookies have their max stakes lowered to £2, do you think that they will look into developing more
CAT C games for their terminals? Max gaming basically made all the Inspired terminal content, but it looks like
they got bought up by Novomatic and now seem to be running as Harlequin Gaming?

They made some really fun and interesting games. Do you think there is space for these games once again,
now the max stake will go down to £2 max? I hope that they do start catering more for the low stakes, more entertainment player.

Inspired have literally not developed anything since, there's a few pub style games in Corals that still appear from time to time, but
looks like Hills and Fred's just don't want to know, Lets Play Darts and the horrid Snake game is only that's really left.

Bring back Golden Balls! hahaha :p


Rob
 

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Best AWP I ever saw was a Bell Fruit one, can't recall the name but it was one which had single, double and triple bars and a 4.80 token JP. You sometimes got hidden messages like a crescent moon overlaying a single bar on the middle reel on the pay line, so you pressed it and something would happen. Bells was the jackpot and sometimes the bell on reel 3 would make a slight shake or noise, press it and the jp would come in. You always got a token or cash 'roll' of 28.80 on it with 2.40 cash repeat and 6 token jackpots on the bounce. Mr. Presto or something it was called.....
 

Jono777

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Best AWP I ever saw was a Bell Fruit one, can't recall the name but it was one which had single, double and triple bars and a 4.80 token JP. You sometimes got hidden messages like a crescent moon overlaying a single bar on the middle reel on the pay line, so you pressed it and something would happen. Bells was the jackpot and sometimes the bell on reel 3 would make a slight shake or noise, press it and the jp would come in. You always got a token or cash 'roll' of 28.80 on it with 2.40 cash repeat and 6 token jackpots on the bounce. Mr. Presto or something it was called.....

High Point

Silver bells were "2.40 repeater" which could go on forever!

Gold Bells were £4.80 JP and played James Bond - Gold Finger, could be triggered from a reel match from the BFM bell on centre reel as you describe, if out side reels matched.

Triple bars - £2.20, Double £2.00, single £1.60

Two matching bars on reels with overlayed symbol and one bell with over lay underneath, press it for skill cash, similar thing for graphic cash.

Nudge gamble from 1-4, unlimited nudges and a streak made this one of my top 5 also! :thumbsup:
 

JGslots

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High Point

Silver bells were "2.40 repeater" which could go on forever!

Gold Bells were £4.80 JP and played James Bond - Gold Finger, could be triggered from a reel match from the BFM bell on centre reel as you describe, if out side reels matched.

Triple bars - £2.20, Double £2.00, single £1.60

Two matching bars on reels with overlayed symbol and one bell with over lay underneath, press it for skill cash, similar thing for graphic cash.

Nudge gamble from 1-4, unlimited nudges and a streak made this one of my top 5 also! :thumbsup:

Was the BFG Party Time similar to this? That seemed to have a barcode type feature I think as well as a big streak?
 

ChopleyIOM

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High Point

Silver bells were "2.40 repeater" which could go on forever!

Gold Bells were £4.80 JP and played James Bond - Gold Finger, could be triggered from a reel match from the BFM bell on centre reel as you describe, if out side reels matched.

Triple bars - £2.20, Double £2.00, single £1.60

Two matching bars on reels with overlayed symbol and one bell with over lay underneath, press it for skill cash, similar thing for graphic cash.

Nudge gamble from 1-4, unlimited nudges and a streak made this one of my top 5 also! :thumbsup:

Available on MFME for free! (Multiple Fruit Machine Emulator.)

upload_2018-11-25_19-14-41.png
 

ChopleyIOM

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Was the BFG Party Time similar to this? That seemed to have a barcode type feature I think as well as a big streak?

Yep, Surprise Surprize and Party Time were crazy streakers, I've done a video about them.

 

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I started my interest in slots when I met a ‘professional’ slot player in a pub near college. I couldn’t understand why he kept gambling to lose, higher than 11 when 1 away from the jackpot, taking £1 when he could take £15 etc. The games were all the same maths I believe, Barcrest games The Italian Job and another rebrand I forget.

This chap took me on his rounds in Liverpool. He had pubs he was allowed to play and others that belonged to other players. The risk of being caught on someone else’s patch wasn’t worth it he told me.

Long story short I managed to make a few quid from them for a year or so, they were then ‘chipped’ to stop the forced play, sadly I wasn’t clever enough to know which ones had been upgraded and my short period of profit soon became a loss.

When I’m back in the UK I still find time to lose £20 or £40, but like the OP I don’t get the excitement from the higher jackpot games any more. Gone are the days where you’d be playing looking over your shoulder as you knew as soon as you went for change some bugger would try and steal your machine!

Great thread and brought up some great memories.

Mark
 

Jono777

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Was the BFG Party Time similar to this? That seemed to have a barcode type feature I think as well as a big streak?

Sorry mate missed this 1st time around!

Unsure, only party times that spring to mind are those annoying Astra things that JD empties :p
 

trancemonkey

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I quite liked some of Mazooma's machines, they were a bit different from the norm. (Could go horribly wrong on a force though, they didn't respond well to it.)

Impulse did some great stuff, really good sound and music packages although hobbled a bit by the rather explodey EPOCH tech (not many have survived unfortunately, but emulation has us covered!). I just forced all of them out and hoped to get the streak, I remember Grid Runner doing £25 + three repeats on the upgraded £25 ROMs. (Although 'upgrade' is the wrong way to describe it really, since it killed the gameplay, they were much better at the £15 jackpot IMO.)

I do indeed remember Red Arrow, JPM had to absolutely chip the hell out of that thing!

(You're not the same ex-Impulse guy who left a comment on one of my videos recently are you?...... :D)

Indeed I am :)

We had to take the numbering out of Red Arrow and other games because the operators forced our hand...
 
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