# Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

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From what I've seen so far, the "proof" is looking like it may have some cause for further investigation, but I think you need to move away from the argument about what is/isn't constituting proof and get more results in. Ultimately, proof or not, it will have influence. You're just in danger of deflecting the point of the thread, which would be a shame.

Simmo! said:
From what I've seen so far, the "proof" is looking like it may have some cause for further investigation, but I think you need to move away from the argument about what is/isn't constituting proof and get more results in.

As Andreas says, proof can easily be obtained with a small sample if the cheating is as blatant as it is here.

So far we have

18 wins
27 losses
25 wins
65 losses
40 wins
55 losses
and
84 wins
151 losses

Taken together, that is
167 wins, 298 losses

The chances of that happening from a fair game is 1.5 billion to one

There is not even one sample where wins are close to losses

1.5 billion to one is enough to convince anyone.

thelawnet said:
As Andreas says, proof can easily be obtained with a small sample if the cheating is as blatant as it is here.

So far we have

18 wins
27 losses
25 wins
65 losses
40 wins
55 losses
and
84 wins
151 losses

Taken together, that is
167 wins, 298 losses

The chances of that happening from a fair game is 1.5 billion to one

There is not even one sample where wins are close to losses

1.5 billion to one is enough to convince anyone.

Fair enough. I'll leave you to it then TLN

OK, English Harbour flash casino playing 2 line Jacks or Better in play money mode. I only doubled once, even if I won the double.

16 wins
30 losses
4 ties

My contribution ...

liquidsoap said:

Fixed
You need to add about 100,000 more hands if that to find out if it is fixed....

Just another loser with a conspiracy theory....
When you hit the royal flush, complain to them thats its fixed
Dude, that is so clueless. OP's results are way enough to show it's not a 50-50 game.

Ok hold on your guys are complaining that the Video poker is fixed right???
Seriously listen a fair doubling game should be even right?
Ok heads or tails susposivley susposed to be 50:50
It can come up heads a million times in a row, would that be fixed???
I am not about to get heated about you guys so called "cheating games"
why would a casino need to cheat anyway...
With people like you guys playing a game thats ran cold they are problem running to the bank

I am heading here right now to add my 2 cents, but IMO If a software is rigged, dont complain about it stop playing it!

TeddyFSB said:
Dude, that is so clueless. OP's results are way enough to show it's not a 50-50 game.

Like I said in my last post niether is heads or tails, Flip a coin 100 times gaurentee you dont get 50:50 once

To the trails, trying to double 1000 times, will be back with a word document of my progress!

HMMMMMMM.....

As much as I hate to admit it this is going to take long and is not going as expected

liquidsoap said:
Like I said in my last post niether is heads or tails, Flip a coin 100 times gaurentee you dont get 50:50 once

I'm not sure what this means. Do you mean that if we flip a coin 100 times, we'll never get half head and half tail? Or if we flip a coin a hundred times once, we won't get exactly 50 heads and 50 tails (actual probability: .0796)?

And as for your other comment, yes, if somebody flipped a coin a million times and it came up heads every time, I would accuse them of fixing it and, depending on whether there were money riding on the game or not, punch the person in the mouth.

And he wasn't complaining, he was WARNING people like you not to play a rigged vp doubling game. A thousand times.

saw this thread and thought i would give it a try. if they were going to delibrately cheat though, you would think they would make the free play fair.

my results: win: 22

draw: 6

lose: 42

Well I am changing position on this, I am too lazy to do 1000 trials but I got 200 doubles out of it, all I can say is 50:50 my ass

Position before the trail, disbeliefer
Position after, neutral

Trails
0-100 30 -Win 64 -Lose 6 -Tie
101-200 33 -Win 62 -Lose 5 -Tie

I am taking no sides now, That is my results I got for each of the 100 trails I took.

K, I was wrong enough said

By the way, people dont plan on doing alot of trials unless you are serouisly in it for the long haul it took 45 minutes to do 200 on speed deal...

I am keeping my mouth shut I wish you Thelawnnet and supporters the best of luck, in your pursuit whatever it may be

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already there have been about half a dozen small samples. All these short term trials will add up.

btw it would at least be encouraging to get a result that shows a positive win count.

jsp377 said:
I'm not sure what this means. Do you mean that if we flip a coin 100 times, we'll never get half head and half tail? Or if we flip a coin a hundred times once, we won't get exactly 50 heads and 50 tails (actual probability: .0796)?

And as for your other comment, yes, if somebody flipped a coin a million times and it came up heads every time, I would accuse them of fixing it and, depending on whether there were money riding on the game or not, punch the person in the mouth.

And he wasn't complaining, he was WARNING people like you not to play a rigged vp doubling game. A thousand times.

You no what i meant, better not punch that guy in the face. Its kasino king always finding a way to beet the odds.....

I have now also run an experiment to test if the doubling at english harbour is fair. I have done the test in play money mode, Jacks and better single hand.

My results are: 37 wins, and 100 losses. According to my calculations this is almost an -5.4 standard deviation event if the game had been fair. The conclusion is the therefore the same as thelawnets':

The dubling feature at english harbour is not fair.

However, I have also done a similar experiment at fire and ice casino with a result of 55 wins and 59 losses, which of course is not unormal. My conclusion of from that experiment is therefore:

It has not been shown that the doubling feature at Ice and fire casino is not fair.

Is seems like different casinos using the same software can deal different games. It would be good if others would like to duplicate the experiments to try out different casinos using thje same software.

Of course you need a huge sample to conclude if some games are rigged or not. A game can be rigged just a little bit to give the house an extra 3-4% and this can't be uncovered by just playing 100 times. In the case of video poker so far the resutls ain't good. I would give it a try myself if I knew how to play video poker properly

gfkostas said:
Of course you need a huge sample to conclude if some games are rigged or not. A game can be rigged just a little bit to give the house an extra 3-4% and this can't be uncovered by just playing 100 times.:

Well, it obviously does not take a huge sample prove that this particular game is rigged.

gfkostas said:
In the case of video poker so far the resutls ain't good. I would give it a try myself if I knew how to play video poker properly

Hehe.. you don't have to be able to play vido poker properly to try out the doubling feature. Just double every time you win.

Lawnet, you should contact the Wizard of Odds with your results. If he agrees, this problem will get more attention.

Cheating by Odds On does not surprise me.

And yes, if the double down feature is not 50/50, the game is cheating.

liquidsoap said:
Ok hold on your guys are complaining that the Video poker is fixed right???
Seriously listen a fair doubling game should be even right?
Ok heads or tails susposivley susposed to be 50:50
It can come up heads a million times in a row, would that be fixed???
I am not about to get heated about you guys so called "cheating games"
why would a casino need to cheat anyway...
With people like you guys playing a game thats ran cold they are problem running to the bank

I am heading here right now to add my 2 cents, but IMO If a software is rigged, dont complain about it stop playing it!

Liquid, I have respected your posts for a long time but your posts to this thread border on insanity. Sure, a coinc ould come up a million times in a row. And yes, it would have to be fixed. Just having 1000 in a row would be a 1 in 1X10^301 event. Imagine that happening twice in a row. I think you're at the level of the number of neutrons+protons+electrons in the universe at that point. I don't think the complaint is that VP is fixed, but the doubling section is.

some people are so blind its retarded

ok someone tell me what random means?
Random mean it done with algorithm algorithm is done with a set on instructions.so that tell me all.Also that sya it can be perdictable.so random or randomly isnt what people think it is.

Wow, lots of good posts here. I have never played these casinos but I love video poker so I'll be staying away. Thanks OP!

Achenar said:
ok someone tell me what random means?
Random mean it done with algorithm algorithm is done with a set on instructions.so that tell me all.Also that sya it can be perdictable.so random or randomly isnt what people think it is.

It's close enough to random that there's no measurable difference. Yes, algorithms are deterministic, but you can structure them so that their behavior may as well be considered random. See the code at
, specifically rng.c, to see just one way of how it's done in C. The mathematical reasoning behind it can be found
(warning: pdf).

EDIT: I should also thank the OP. Excellent post, thanks for making us all aware.

I wanted to be a team player and add a real-money trial. I deposited \$50 and hit a royal playing Tens or Better at \$2.50 a pop. No joke. I kind of lost track after that....

I hope you didn't double it.(!)

So that was, what, a \$2000 win?

Congratulations.

(Goes to show karma works.)

Thanks Linus. Yep, \$2000. That allegedly-cheating doubling button was calling me, blink blink blinking away there...but I declined.

Sorry to derail the topic. Back to the matter at hand....

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