Looking for a New Approach

Diane

Ueber Meister
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Location
WI
Lost my butt in 2010. Looking for a better way to proceed with my online slots play.

From being here a year now, I believe I have a good grasp of the basic do's and don't.

My dilemma is a better and more disciplined approach to attempting to win and then protecting my wins.

Most recent (of the many I have tried) is to set up a min bet to cover all lines and then under autoplay set a limit of 100 spins. If I hit, great then I increase my bet one notch up and the re-start with higher bet and same 100 spins max. Repeat, if I continue to win within the alloted 100 max spin but if I have won, make sure that I never lose more than $100.

I only play the games I enjoy and don't chase Random Jackpots

I have seen others referencing trying just 8-10 spins and then moving on if no bonus hit. Others tried 1400 or more spins on one game.

What's the recommendation team? How long should I stick with one game without a bonus before I move on?

Diane
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
What's the recommendation team? How long should I stick with one game without a bonus before I move on?
It depends on which software and which game you're playing.

For example, on MG slots the bonus rounds hit on average once every 76 to 169 spins, depending on the slot.
Personally I tend to only go to about 1.5 x the average, which in most cases is around 200 spins.

The problem is, once you get to 200 you can't help thinking "it MUST hit soon..." and so it's hard to stop. Everyone does it sometimes - even me! Just last night I was playing a Playtech slot and I just could not accept it wouldn't give me the bonus feature, so carried on until I finally got it on spin 542! By that time I was €224 down - and the bonus only returned €61.50... :eek2:
However, I was very lucky and got 2 more features in the next 81 spins, the second of which took me well into the black.
At that point I had hit 3 features in 623 spins = 1 every 207.6 spins = much nearer the average I would expect. I didn't want to press my luck though - I just did 50 more spins & then quit the slot €86 up.

But of course, every player will have a different answer to your question. ;)
By far the most important thing IMHO, is to always try to quit a slot in the black - whether it takes just 10 spins, or 500.

KK
 

Deeplay

New World Order
webmeister
CAG
mm1
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Location
The biG Eu
I think it also comes down to when your prepared to cash out "if" ahead.

This past year I radicially changed my cashout method - cashing out much earlier on when ever I was up. Example deposit 50 and if i got to 150 I would cash out 100 leaving my orrigional deposit. And where ever I always flush so its not reversable. The down side is I did not ever risk building up a bigger balence to bet at higher levels which could have resulted in bigger wins. But upside is I cashed out many times more and all the cashouts added up given me a decent year in comparrison to 2009 and 2008 when I was more inclined to play higher balences at higher stakes which cost me dearly many times.

As for slot play I usually do 150 to 200 spins and if its dead move on. But as KK said it can be hard as you get over 200 and think yep its gotta come but thats the Casino bait. Example I went around 500 spins on Avalon MG. Never hit fs and ended with a zero balence. Its knowing when to stop and trying hard not to chase the loss. They will always be another day.
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Location
Narnia
Diane, I know a little bit about the slots but I don't really play them myself.
I would advise if table games like Blackjack interest you at all, switch to them as they offer a much greater return to the player.

But here is some base advice on slots:

- Always play max. lines, I have been told that the makers of these games base the payout % on max. lines played. One assumes here that the payout % would be lower if you were to play less than max. lines.

- Avoid progressives. Progressives take a small percentage of your bet and add it to the progressive jackpot. This dramatically lowers the return of the game. (This is assuming you don't win the progressive.)

- Generally the slots which have a high minimum denomination have a greater payback % to the player. Take this example: One game has a minimum coin denomination of 1c per line, while another one has a minimum coin denomination of 5c per line. If you wish to get a higher return play the 5c one.
I have had the opportunity to personally look at the individual return of single slot machines and they followed this pattern i.e. the higher the minimum denomination, the higher the payback %.
Although, online it is hard to find slots with a higher minimum denomination of 1c.

- Take advantage of every bonus/promotion your casino has to offer.
Online casinos usually offer generous promos/bonuses to slot players.

- Use the gamble/double feature. This will dramatically boost your return on slots.
I wouldn’t recommend trying to double up on large amounts but you can choose an amount you feel comfortable with, i.e. wins under 50c, $1, or $2.

- And finally, don't bet big. Keep your wagers as small as possible, i.e. 20c, 25c a spin.
Slots are and always have been what I would refer to as; "short term losers."
That is to say, you *will* lose and *very* quickly. At least, when you bet small your money will last you longer.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Quoting petro (Blue text) with my comments (Black text):

Diane, I know a little bit about the slots but I don't really play them myself.
I would advise if table games like Blackjack interest you at all, switch to them as they offer a much greater return to the player.

Not true.
Blackjack has a lower house edge which means you lose slower.
But it is also very low varaince and you have ZERO chance of getting a bet x 100+ win!

But here is some base advice on slots:
- Always play max. lines, I have been told that the makers of these games base the payout % on max. lines played. One assumes here that the payout % would be lower if you were to play less than max. lines.

Not true.

- Avoid progressives. Progressives take a small percentage of your bet and add it to the progressive jackpot. This dramatically lowers the return of the game. (This is assuming you don't win the progressive.)
Ture.
Though "dramatically" might be a bit of an overstatemnt. Typically I believe it is less than 1%.

- Generally the slots which have a high minimum denomination have a greater payback % to the player. Take this example: One game has a minimum coin denomination of 1c per line, while another one has a minimum coin denomination of 5c per line. If you wish to get a higher return play the 5c one.
I have had the opportunity to personally look at the individual return of single slot machines and they followed this pattern i.e. the higher the minimum denomination, the higher the payback %.
Although, online it is hard to find slots with a higher minimum denomination of 1c.

Not true.

- Take advantage of every bonus/promotion your casino has to offer.
Online casinos usually offer generous promos/bonuses to slot players.

True.

- Use the gamble/double feature. This will dramatically boost your return on slots.
I wouldn’t recommend trying to double up on large amounts but you can choose an amount you feel comfortable with, i.e. wins under 50c, $1, or $2.

Not true.
These double up gambles are 50/50 so make no difference to your overall RTP.

- And finally, don't bet big. Keep your wagers as small as possible, i.e. 20c, 25c a spin.
Slots are and always have been what I would refer to as; "short term losers."
That is to say, you *will* lose and *very* quickly. At least, when you bet small your money will last you longer.

Generally true.
But some people like to bet big early on in the hope of a big win, then grind out the rest of the WR.
It's risky - but it does save a lot of time if you only play for profit and not for entertainment. :rolleyes:

KK
 

blacklabrador

Banned User - chargebacks - multiple banned forum
Joined
May 15, 2010
Location
Ohio
Diane, I know a little bit about the slots but I don't really play them myself.
I would advise if table games like Blackjack interest you at all, switch to them as they offer a much greater return to the player.

But here is some base advice on slots:

- Always play max. lines, I have been told that the makers of these games base the payout % on max. lines played. One assumes here that the payout % would be lower if you were to play less than max. lines.

- Avoid progressives. Progressives take a small percentage of your bet and add it to the progressive jackpot. This dramatically lowers the return of the game. (This is assuming you don't win the progressive.)

- Generally the slots which have a high minimum denomination have a greater payback % to the player. Take this example: One game has a minimum coin denomination of 1c per line, while another one has a minimum coin denomination of 5c per line. If you wish to get a higher return play the 5c one.
I have had the opportunity to personally look at the individual return of single slot machines and they followed this pattern i.e. the higher the minimum denomination, the higher the payback %.
Although, online it is hard to find slots with a higher minimum denomination of 1c.

- Take advantage of every bonus/promotion your casino has to offer.
Online casinos usually offer generous promos/bonuses to slot players.

- Use the gamble/double feature. This will dramatically boost your return on slots.
I wouldn’t recommend trying to double up on large amounts but you can choose an amount you feel comfortable with, i.e. wins under 50c, $1, or $2.

- And finally, don't bet big. Keep your wagers as small as possible, i.e. 20c, 25c a spin.
Slots are and always have been what I would refer to as; "short term losers."
That is to say, you *will* lose and *very* quickly. At least, when you bet small your money will last you longer.

Wow no offense but you have alot to learn. NEVER use the gamble feature, why take the chance of losing what you already won?

As for taking advantage of casino bonuses, once again, thats silly. All depends on the terms. I would NEVER do a 100% match offer if I had to wager 40X the deposit and bonus, you would never cashout unless you hit a jackpot. I would rather deposit my $100 and have control of when I can hit the cashout button. I hate being handcuffed, screw that.

And finally blackjack is garbage, if you want to play cardgames, play video poker. Overall people that play video poker most of the time will have a much higher cashout rate than those that gamble on slots IF THEY ARE DISCIPLINED enough.
 

rockycatt

meistercatt
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Location
Boston
Lost my butt in 2010. Looking for a better way to proceed with my online slots play.

From being here a year now, I believe I have a good grasp of the basic do's and don't.

My dilemma is a better and more disciplined approach to attempting to win and then protecting my wins.

Most recent (of the many I have tried) is to set up a min bet to cover all lines and then under autoplay set a limit of 100 spins. If I hit, great then I increase my bet one notch up and the re-start with higher bet and same 100 spins max. Repeat, if I continue to win within the alloted 100 max spin but if I have won, make sure that I never lose more than $100.

I only play the games I enjoy and don't chase Random Jackpots

I have seen others referencing trying just 8-10 spins and then moving on if no bonus hit. Others tried 1400 or more spins on one game.

What's the recommendation team? How long should I stick with one game without a bonus before I move on?

Diane

one of the hidden ,/but not really is what your doing right now mix it up
a little slots a little meister land [here]and chat . i play at full tilt when im feeling off
don be afraid to play video poker it's a rush when you hit a R F

and most of all play for enjoyment only [the reward is the jackpot ]
you might hit

always remember there has to be a loose for there to be a winner

god bless and happy holiday your friend on the felt rocky
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Location
Narnia
KasinoKing, I think there are a lot of superstitions about slots. Breaking some of these false beliefs may help some problem gamblers.

Understanding about the random number generator in particular dispels many of these false beliefs, like; “At certain times of the day slots payout more.”

All the information I have presented on slots came from the software developers like IGT which is the world’s largest manufacturer of slot machines. IGT also make software for online slots.
It is all credible and I can provide professional references for every single point.

In regards to the gamble feature, it is a well known fact that it increases the return of a game if the game is set to payout under 100%. An expert in gambling ‘The Wizard of Odds,’ can confirm this for you on his website.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
All the information I have presented on slots came from the software developers like IGT which is the world’s largest manufacturer of slot machines. IGT also make software for online slots.
It is all credible and I can provide professional references for every single point.

In regards to the gamble feature, it is a well known fact that it increases the return of a game if the game is set to payout under 100%. An expert in gambling ‘The Wizard of Odds,’ can confirm this for you on his website.
Well, I don't think so.
Please provide your "professional references".
I would especially like to see where on The Wizard of Odds that he says the gamble feature increases your return.

Thanks
KK
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Location
Narnia
Wizard of Odds on the double up feature;

"...If you want to maximize return, including money bet on the double, then you should accept it. If you should take, up to what point, you may ask? That is something you can decide for yourself, according to how much you value risk vs. reward. "

Source:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 

Glunn11

Full Member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Location
Idaho
Just a supplement:

Wizard of Odds said:
How does multiple doubling up in video poker cut the house edge?

This question refers to advice I gave in my newsletter, suggesting video poker players take the double up option when playing for a bonus at a Playtech casino. Doubling up does not lower the house edge of video poker, but does introduce another bet with zero house edge. For the same reason you should take or lay odds in craps it cuts the overall house edge playing video poker if you take the double up feature. Playtech does count double up bets towards the play requirement, so it gets the player to the bonus with less expected loss. So unless you are playing a machine with a return of over 100% and you don't mind extra volatility then I recommend accepting the double up option.
(
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
)

I think it's best summarized as what is quoted later:
Wizard of Odds said:
Taking will not help you win more but it will allow you to bet more.

Over the long run, you will be able to wager more by doubling up at every opportunity than you would if you never took it. While it certainly expands your bankroll, this style of play also significantly shortens gameplay time (increases variance).

The house edge remains unchanged by double up.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
can confirm this with craps: all house edges are the same for the pass line, regardless of the amount of odds you wager. However, double up does increase overall return per dollar wagered; unlike craps, however, this comes at the cost of incredibly high volatility.

It all comes down to the two ways to measure the house edge: per spin or per unit wagered (what the Wiz calls the "element of risk"). Double-up does absolutely nothing to reduce the former, but can greatly reduce the latter.
 

rockycatt

meistercatt
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Location
Boston
i have one thought on this id like to use as a example ---------->

you hit a R F for 4,000.00$ do you double up :D:D now i am guilty here of being tongue in cheek but do you double up on a 4,000.00$ R F

respectfully R C
 

ShayDrew

Quit Gambling
Joined
Aug 19, 2010
Location
New Zealand
Wow no offense but you have alot to learn. NEVER use the gamble feature, why take the chance of losing what you already won?

As for taking advantage of casino bonuses, once again, thats silly. All depends on the terms. I would NEVER do a 100% match offer if I had to wager 40X the deposit and bonus, you would never cashout unless you hit a jackpot. I would rather deposit my $100 and have control of when I can hit the cashout button. I hate being handcuffed, screw that.

And finally blackjack is garbage, if you want to play cardgames, play video poker. Overall people that play video poker most of the time will have a much higher cashout rate than those that gamble on slots IF THEY ARE DISCIPLINED enough.

I agree - for me (A casual have a few beers and have a play kind of player) it depends on how much I want to spend. If I want to be cheap I can pop $30 into iNetBet and usually get a 100% bonus so have $60 to play with and a $1200 playthrough which isn't too hard to clear, but if I feel like depositing a bit more $100/$150 etc I will do it with no bonus so I can withdraw whenever I want to - for me bonus's are about extended playtime on a small deposit - if I was to put $150 in and get a 100% bonus I would have to play too big for my comfort zone in order to get through playthrough.

Just my 10c. :)
 

nisosbar

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Location
Right here
I would never use the double up if it was on a slot win, but there are times I'll use the double up feature on Video Poker.

I play Jacks or Better almost exclusively.

If I get a single pair jacks or better (not two pair or 3oak, etc.), I will try to double up. If I do double up, I stop. But if I get anything better than a single pair, I won't use the double up feature.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
If you are playing slots with a bonus, make sure you read T&Cs. I'm sure generally speaking doubling up doesn't count towards wagering, and you might want to be sure it's not prohibited. Also, you would hate to be accused of some "irregular" betting pattern if you doubled every win, or exceeding some max bet percentage.

I find a big post-it on my computer reminding me of the last time I was stupid (whether it was played too big for my bankroll, failed to cashout a decent win, or reversed one) is a very helpful tool.

Set yourself a goal.... whether it's withdrawing whatever's left after clearing a WR, making 50% over your deposit, 5x your deposit, enough for a wire, whatever suits you best. This goal doesn't even have to be the same for every session. But if you start playing with a specific cashout goal in mind, you tend to do better than just going in with "Gee, I hope tonight's the night".
 

colly

Senior Member
PABaccred
PABinit
MM
Joined
Mar 27, 2001
Location
sydney
If you are playing slots with a bonus, make sure you read T&Cs. I'm sure generally speaking doubling up doesn't count towards wagering, and you might want to be sure it's not prohibited. Also, you would hate to be accused of some "irregular" betting pattern if you doubled every win, or exceeding some max bet percentage.

I find a big post-it on my computer reminding me of the last time I was stupid (whether it was played too big for my bankroll, failed to cashout a decent win, or reversed one) is a very helpful tool.

Set yourself a goal.... whether it's withdrawing whatever's left after clearing a WR, making 50% over your deposit, 5x your deposit, enough for a wire, whatever suits you best. This goal doesn't even have to be the same for every session. But if you start playing with a specific cashout goal in mind, you tend to do better than just going in with "Gee, I hope tonight's the night".

Good advice- especially the bonus terms reminder.
I love the post it note- haven't tried it for gambling but have used post it notes on the phone to remind me not to call someone:D= it works!

Cheers
Colly
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
- Generally the slots which have a high minimum denomination have a greater payback % to the player. Take this example: One game has a minimum coin denomination of 1c per line, while another one has a minimum coin denomination of 5c per line. If you wish to get a higher return play the 5c one.
I have had the opportunity to personally look at the individual return of single slot machines and they followed this pattern i.e. the higher the minimum denomination, the higher the payback %.
Although, online it is hard to find slots with a higher minimum denomination of 1c.

This generally remains true for B&M Casinos. Higher denominations are set at a higher RTP.

I once queried this (With Online Casinos) and was told that the RTP does not increase if your bet does. So in essence, if you are playing $100 a pop, theoretically, your odds are better at a B&M.

Nate
 

Diane

Ueber Meister
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Location
WI
one of the hidden ,/but not really is what your doing right now mix it up
a little slots a little meister land [here]and chat . i play at full tilt when im feeling off
don be afraid to play video poker it's a rush when you hit a R F

and most of all play for enjoyment only [the reward is the jackpot ]
you might hit

always remember there has to be a loose for there to be a winner

god bless and happy holiday your friend on the felt rocky

Rocky,
Thanks for the well wishes. Same back to you.

I do play some VP. With your reference to "friend on the felt" ------ do I know you from live poker @ B&M?

Diane
 
Top