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Just Curious

Discussion in 'Ask the Meister' started by Antonia1953, Jul 28, 2009.

    Jul 28, 2009
  1. Antonia1953

    Antonia1953 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Forensic Accountant (Private)
    Location:
    The Sonora
    Why would any accredited casino not be an eCogra member?
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Jul 28, 2009
  3. Antonia1953

    Antonia1953 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Forensic Accountant (Private)
    Location:
    The Sonora
    Uh oh. Now I'm up-close-and-personal curious.
     
  4. Jul 29, 2009
  5. bryand

    bryand Beach Bum PABnonaccred mm1

    Occupation:
    Legal
    Location:
    Just Across the Hudson River
    I assume you mean any Microgamming casino???
     
  6. Jul 29, 2009
  7. Antonia1953

    Antonia1953 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Forensic Accountant (Private)
    Location:
    The Sonora
    Of the 51 accredited MG casinos only 12 are not eCogra members.
     
  8. Jul 29, 2009
  9. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    There could be a number of reasons. One is that it's expensive. Another is that perhaps some feel they don't need it. It used to be that eCOGRA would evaluate and audit the software provider first, then casinos from that platform could opt to join. Microgaming, 888.com, and then ongame were certified and then the casinos followed. If memory serves me, they changed their policy and are open to casinos that have not had their provider pre-evaluated. You'd probably be better off asking the casinos themselves or eCOGRA for that matter, since I really don't have the answer.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Jul 29, 2009
  11. Antonia1953

    Antonia1953 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Forensic Accountant (Private)
    Location:
    The Sonora
    Thank you for your response. Why do you not think it important to be an eCogra member?

    Once the common denominators are identified, there may not be any reason to ask them. I want to determine why an organization that is playing a major role in substantiating this industry as a viable and controllable business is not being more commonly, actively supported.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
  12. Jul 29, 2009
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I never said it wasn't important. The thing is that there are a number of mitigating circumstances that affect business decisions; joining/not joining eCOGRA is a major decision and I'm not privy to what goes on at the board meetings. :p
     
  14. Jul 29, 2009
  15. Antonia1953

    Antonia1953 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Forensic Accountant (Private)
    Location:
    The Sonora
    Apparently, I was editing while you were responding...
     
  16. Jul 29, 2009
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Actually, I think they are. They have a high profile, they are at every major industry event, they are very active on the operational side of things, and they have been steadily increasing their certifications. Many of the casinos listed here at Casinomeister are eCOGRA certified.
     
  18. Jul 29, 2009
  19. lots0

    lots0 Banned User - troll posts - flaming PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    I do nothing productive
    Location:
    Hell on Earth
    And then there are those of us that have serious questions and concerns about ecogra.

    I think anytime you have a 'watch dog' that was founded and is totally funded by the business that it is supposed to watch over with out any outside oversight... there will be concerns.

    I know Bryan fully supports ecogra... This is one thing we disagree on.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Jul 30, 2009
  21. Antonia1953

    Antonia1953 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Forensic Accountant (Private)
    Location:
    The Sonora
    What online gambling "watchdog" or organization isn't funded by the business they are supporting? This is a full circle "grease money" operation, from start to finish. It isnt easy to grow a flower in a weed patch, so what do you do in order to do it in the proper season? You get help pulling the weeds. Allies do not always agree on the specifics, but it doesnt stop them from joining forces in one common, bonded purpose.

    I dont like a lot of what is going on in this industry,lotso. Self defeating practices abound and good people are going against their own consciences due to a lack of sound finance. Pointing out who is right and wrong in these conditions only detours the attention from the desperately needed cure. There will be plenty of opportunity to iron-out the small details, if and when the industry becomes stabilized.

    I have read the archives and have not found any concerns about eCogra that are uncommon to every aspect and person making a living in this industry.

    Not every truth has to be or should be told. You have to weigh the impact of that truth upon the community it pertains to. I'm in a high state of "pisstivity" right now over some truths, but I can be mad all alone...it is not a new condition for me.
     
  22. Jul 30, 2009
  23. lots0

    lots0 Banned User - troll posts - flaming PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    I do nothing productive
    Location:
    Hell on Earth
    You see that is the problem. The only watchdog site I trust is here at CM and that is only because after a long time I have learned to trust Bryan, even though he and I disagree about some things.

    I also believe that being a watchdog and earning money in the industry in general(like what CM does) is far different than being directly funded in grant form by the business you are supposed to be watching over.

    Granted there is a lot of information in the archives here at CM, however not all the information about ecogra is in the archives here.

    Got to disagree with you on that. In a business that is all about trust, truth is most important it goes hand in hand with honesty and integrity.

    How can you trust a business, person or especially someone that claims to be a Watchdog if they withhold the truth(facts) from you? If they withhold the truth are they being honest or showing integrity? I don't think so.

    By the way, I am not saying that ecogra is bad, evil or a bunch of crooks. What I am saying is that their 'business model'(for lack of a better term) is questionable at best.

    The real question is... Would ecogra bite the hand that feeds it?

    If for example 888.com or any of their other founding members were caught red handed doing bad stuff would ecogra remove their seal from the casino or issue a warning to players?

    Well so far that has never happened.. and I am one of those folks that think that maybe it should have.
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Jul 30, 2009
  25. Antonia1953

    Antonia1953 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Forensic Accountant (Private)
    Location:
    The Sonora
    I agree with you that standards and principals should always be enforced by those that have defined them as absolute requirements in order to receive a certain benefit. Where or how they are being funded doesnt matter to me. When anyone sets themselves up to be the authority on any level of standards, they are promising not to favor or make exceptions to those standards. On the other hand, I believe in moral responsibility to the community they are attempting to govern or set guidelines for. Standards and moral responsibility often come into conflict and the promise to be steadfast and true is broken when the standards are overridden.

    Like yourself, I also believe in absolute truth and the integrity that leads you to it. Some believe in relative truth, but I do not. Absolute truth can only be obtained by removing self from the equation and inserting the willingness to inflict harm. Moral responsibility tempers that willingness and here lies another conflict.

    I see no evidence of absolute truth or integrity in online gambling. What I am seeing is a few good people struggling to balance standards, truth, integrity, and an unwillingness to inflict harm. I consider Bryan to be one of those people.

    Only an ideal world would allow me to bypass moral obligation in the wake of absolute truth. When I'm dealing with treacherous and violent people, my unwillingness to do harm is not in the equation.
     

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