Israel

[bamberfishcake]

Two innocent Swedish people probably football fans, shot dead in Brussels by muslim migrant tonight, sadly yet more European families suffering from the effects multiculturalism. The fact the scumbag has escaped so far and could quite easily be on the next cross-channel invasion wave from France makes me want to puke.

Heard the other day that Sweden has the highest rate of gun crime in Europe. Don't know how true that is or how it's measured - lies, damn lies, and statistics etc - but what has happened over there? Used to be one of the safest countries IIRC.

 

[dunover]

Heard the other day that Sweden has the highest rate of gun crime in Europe. Don't know how true that is or how it's measured - lies, damn lies, and statistics etc - but what has happened over there? Used to be one of the safest countries IIRC.

Apparently they shot the bastard in a cafe, so won't be coming over here.

 

[interlog]

Apparently they shot the bastard in a cafe, so won't be coming over here.

UK police need to learn how to deal with such vermin.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Are guns a big thing in Sweden? Its nothing like the US is it?

I suppose the weapons manufacturers would love it if the world adopted more guns.

 

[mack341]

Are guns a big thing in Sweden? Its nothing like the US is it?

I suppose the weapons manufacturers would love it if the world adopted more guns.

My understanding is lots of weapons found their way there after the balkan wars in the 90s, ak-47s and lots of grenades being two examples, don't know if this is correct. Or perhaps more recent smuggling from latvia and other gangster hotspots etc...

Probably tied to gangs selling drugs in the swedish cities, sex traffickers/ prostitution rings, resulting in turf wars would be my guess.

 

[justdoit]

Surely someone in authority must have given them permission to set up this stage there?

they need to get license from met police, when they get licence they get map, where and what they can do

 

[justdoit]

Heard the other day that Sweden has the highest rate of gun crime in Europe. Don't know how true that is or how it's measured - lies, damn lies, and statistics etc - but what has happened over there? Used to be one of the safest countries IIRC.

yes they do have high gun crime, ex Yugoslavia war left lot of guns open to public, now they getting sold

 

[Kroffe]

Are guns a big thing in Sweden? Its nothing like the US is it?

I suppose the weapons manufacturers would love it if the world adopted more guns.

Not really (apart from criminals of course).
A lot of people have a hunting license and own rifles/shotguns, but those are not really the type of weapons being used in shootings.

Like Mack said the vast majority of gun violence is between gangs, and related to drugs in one way or another.
So thankfully its mostly criminals shooting criminals, but its not like there is zero collateral damage.
And another disturbing and problematic thing is that its getting more common for the gangs to recruit kids for the shootings, and our laws are not really up to speed with that kind of behaviour.

Basically if someone under 15 commits a crime the punishment is a slap on the wrist compared to the punishment an adult would receive for committing the same crime.

99% of it is happening down south, but if nothing is done about it its only a matter of time before it spreads.

 

[dunover]

Not really (apart from criminals of course).
A lot of people have a hunting license and own rifles/shotguns, but those are not really the type of weapons being used in shootings.

Like Mack said the vast majority of gun violence is between gangs, and related to drugs in one way or another.
So thankfully its mostly criminals shooting criminals, but its not like there is zero collateral damage.
And another disturbing and problematic thing is that its getting more common for the gangs to recruit kids for the shootings, and our laws are not really up to speed with that kind of behaviour.

Basically if someone under 15 commits a crime the punishment is a slap on the wrist compared to the punishment an adult would receive for committing the same crime.

99% of it is happening down south, but if nothing is done about it its only a matter of time before it spreads.

You mean Malmo where they are enjoying the benefits of multiculturalism more than other Swedish towns and cities?

 

[interlog]

I think the rocket strike on that hospital has set the cat amongst the pigeons and I fear this will escalate soon.

Hamas stirring things up across the Arab world. Israel saying it wasn't them but a stray rocket from Hamas.

Interesting but also scary times ahead....

 

[Kroffe]

You mean Malmo where they are enjoying the benefits of multiculturalism more than other Swedish towns and cities?

That is definitely one of the cities that are having issues, but its not the only one.
From where i live (Umeå) its basically the further south you go the worse it gets.

Someone made a site mapping out the crimes, based on police reports. (not just shootings, but only 'big' crimes'
Its not non-existent where i live but there is a major difference, but these areas are also much more sparsely populated and im guessing that contributes to it aswell.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[goatwack]

Wow - that hospital attack

Had initially assumed full-on propaganda being in play, given the 'tactics' usually deployed by the besieged, smaller nations.

Yet in all honesty, I'm more likely to believe that Israel did cause it, given the fire & brimstone shelling they're likely to inflict. Such is the way of such things over there, I'd imagine the retribution to be like-for-like, as it's always been.....and of course the innocent always bear the brunt.

Pretty sure this isn't what ordinary Palestinians envisaged or asked for, yet seemingly that's what they're getting, given that Hamas and ordinary folk have somehow been conflated.

Of course Israel are grieving these atrocities, but causing the needless extermination of the Palestinian populace is not much better. Because this sort of collateral damage will only fuel anti-Israeli resentment, strengthen Hamas' resolve, and prolong this conflict for generations to come....

 

[mack341]

bbc:

Jordan's foreign minister has just said the country is pulling out of a planned summit with US President Joe Biden.

The summit was to be held in Amman and was to included Biden as well as Egyptian, Palestinian and Jordanian officials.

---------

Thinking aloud here, but maybe Israel didn't want this meeting to happen. Blowing up a hospital full of injured civilians [incl children] is guaranteed to cause problems for the west, who've to date backed the military action by Israel, so there must be some logic behind it.

 

[interlog]

bbc:

Jordan's foreign minister has just said the country is pulling out of a planned summit with US President Joe Biden.

The summit was to be held in Amman and was to included Biden as well as Egyptian, Palestinian and Jordanian officials.

---------

Thinking aloud here, but maybe Israel didn't want this meeting to happen. Blowing up a hospital full of injured civilians [incl children] is guaranteed to cause problems for the west, who've to date backed the military action by Israel, so there must be some logic behind it.

But that is illogical.

Want the support of the West is not gained by deliberately bombing a hospital.

It is something that more fits Hamas and putting the cats amongst the pigeons by blaming Israel.

There is apparently a video that shows a missile being fired towards Israel that fell short. Not sure of the authenticity of it though.

 

[goatwack]

Israel are allies of the West and U.S, they don't need the green light from them to conduct their affairs, nor would they particularly care.

It's highly likely to have been Israel that bombed that hospital, likely an indirect consequence from their not-so-hidden military assault. Even the Palestinians wouldn't let their loathing of Israel make them PR bomb their own hospitals, nor do I see Hamas having done that.

Would be great to have a neutral. completely unbiased source bringing us unfiltered news from that region, but ultimately, with most having the means to transmit these events live via their phones, that's the closest we'll get.....

 

[goatwack]

It's ok, Biden's here!

Yes indeed, he'll fulfil his mandatory visit and say his prepared-by-aides speech just after his alphabet spaghetti, but not before Sesame Street!

Even better, we'll have the U.S investigate the hospital bombing, so that should make for a completely accurate report.

 

[interlog]

Perhaps Iran should investigate it!

 

[dunover]

Jeeze how can Americans take that senile embarrassment Biden seriously. He makes a speech a couple of hours ago in Israel, fluff his lines (reading from a script) then calls Hamas 'the other side' when he forgets their name.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Jeeze how can Americans take that senile embarrassment Biden seriously. He makes a speech a couple of hours ago in Israel, fluff his lines (reading from a script) then calls Hamas 'the other side' when he forgets their name.

Or fall asleep with his prompt card in hand.

At least we know they are not hiding some miracle drug from us, because he would be pumped full of it on a daily basis to avoid the inevitable embarrassment.

It's clear to see how bonkers the world is right now when the head of the most powerful nation in the world is a geriatric old fart who barely knows what time it is. Inspiring times!

 

[goatwack]

Transcript in full, to those who missed it:

We will not submit to terrorism, freedom will prevail. We've looked at the evidence, and it was Israel....I mean, the other side, Hummus. You know.....the guy!

- Bib Biden

 

[dunover]

Transcript in full, to those who missed it:

We will not submit to terrorism, freedom will prevail. We've looked at the evidence, and it was Israel....I mean, the other side, Hummus. You know.....the guy!

- Bib Biden

View attachment 188271

Obviously hasn't gotten over Oireland losing to the Black & Tans yet in the rugby WC.

Never mind the White House, should be in Paradise Lodge.

Yes, no miracle drug I agree, but I think the Americans have found a way to preserve cadavers and insert some kind of electrical pulse box into them, which can move lips, eyelids and hands.

Next the embalmed Lenin will be making an appearance alongside Mad Vlad.

Surely there's one or two aides in the US aged less than 110 who can fly over there instead?

 

[mack341]

But that is illogical.

Want the support of the West is not gained by deliberately bombing a hospital.

It is something that more fits Hamas and putting the cats amongst the pigeons by blaming Israel.

There is apparently a video that shows a missile being fired towards Israel that fell short. Not sure of the authenticity of it though.

afaik those meetings were called off after the hospital incident, I can't imagine hamas rockets can cause that size of explosion. Israel issued warnings to evacuate hospitals, and one of their advisers tweeted that evening they'd hit a hospital and then a short while later deleted it.

The logic is Israel didn't want Biden to meet with the 'arab' leaders before he met netanyahu, or perhaps at all, biden is senile who knows how he might respond to their presentations/arguments. If he came out and said we need a ceasefire, than that would put israel in a very difficult position.

I'm just speculating on the chain of events, trying to understand why they would hit that hospital around the time biden arrives, why not wait till he's gone back. [If they believed it was a legitimate military target, not saying I agree with the blowing up of hospitals]

Or it was Hamas' rocket falling short.

If there is such a thing as a neutral expert or organisation that can analyse the damage, footage, debris etc...then that's what's required.

 

[interlog]

afaik those meetings were called off after the hospital incident, I can't imagine hamas rockets can cause that size of explosion. Israel issued warnings to evacuate hospitals, and one of their advisers tweeted that evening they'd hit a hospital and then a short while later deleted it.

View attachment 188286

The logic is Israel didn't want Biden to meet with the 'arab' leaders before he met netanyahu, or perhaps at all, biden is senile who knows how he might respond to their presentations/arguments. If he came out and said we need a ceasefire, than that would put israel in a very difficult position.

I'm just speculating on the chain of events, trying to understand why they would hit that hospital around the time biden arrives, why not wait till he's gone back. [If they believed it was a legitimate military target, not saying I agree with the blowing up of hospitals]

Or it was Hamas' rocket falling short.

If there is such a thing as a neutral expert or organisation that can analyse the damage, footage, debris etc...then that's what's required.

Didn't Israel say if it was them there would have been a crater, yet that appears not to be the case.

An analysis of the site by an independent body would be ideal, alas that is not going to happen in a war zone.

I wouldn't trust anything Hamas says or claims. They have nothing to lose, unlike Israel.

 

[dunover]

The pictures show very little blast damage from where the crater is, a small crater. Most are now saying it's rocket propellant, cars nearby are in the same position, merely burnt out. There's also a video showing rockets being launched in the direction of the hospital although it isn't clear if it was an accident or not and the videos don't show where the rocket dropped.

 

[Kroffe]

The amount of propaganda/misinformation from both sides is crazy.
Never before has knowledge&news from around the world been so easy to get ahold of, but finding out what is actually happening has never been harder than it is now, and it will only get harder going forward.

So what is the solution?
Well thats easy.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Well, Hamas or that PIJ terrorist organisation have a rocket installation at the cemetery of the hospital...

What exactly do they expect if something goes wrong when launching?

On top of that they knew immediately after the blast 4-500 people died. How?

Not the biggest fan of Israel and the fact we, the West, let them get away with a lot of shit but let's not kid ourselves thinking Hamas gives a fuck about their own people.

 

[justdoit]

Well, Hamas or that PIJ terrorist organisation have a rocket installation at the cemetery of the hospital...

What exactly do they expect if something goes wrong when launching?

On top of that they knew immediately after the blast 4-500 people died. How?

Not the biggest fan of Israel and the fact we, the West, let them get away with a lot of shit but let's not kid ourselves thinking Hamas gives a fuck about their own people.

that what Isreal is saying, even if they had Rocket on hospital they should not bomb hospital, this war is funny, Israel is sending text massages in 10mins we are bombing this area of Gaza wtf you tell your enemy to hide before you attack? is this a joke, Isreal has good army they should just go in and fight Hamas troops

 

[interlog]

So the consensus appears to be that it wasn't an Israeli airstrike despite being claimed by Hamas.

In the meantime they have achieved what they have set out. Helped by the other terror organisation Hezbollah, possibly backed by Iran, they have stirred up the Muslim population across the Middle East in yet more anti Western hate.

How can peace ever be achieved?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

'Any conversation around this has to begin with empathy, or we're just fucked'.

A really good video that gets to the critical truth of the matter, that both the people of Israel and the Palestinians have been failed terribly by dreadful leaders.

I'd respectfully suggest this is worth half an hour of your time.

 

[mack341]

'Any conversation around this has to begin with empathy, or we're just fucked'.

A really good video that gets to the critical truth of the matter, that both the people of Israel and the Palestinians have been failed terribly by dreadful leaders.

I'd respectfully suggest this is worth half an hour of your time.

Not available to watch where I am Chop, probably a blessing as I can't stand the Oliver guy. But the first thought that comes to mind, it's not an equal proposition or relationship.

It's not even really a war, that would equate to two sides/nation states that meet on a battlefield with conventional weaponry. [If britain was to attack the iom with jet fighters, advanced missiles and tanks and the locals got hold of some home made rockets and light weapons, would it really be a war?]

Gaza should be under the UN's control for the time being or something similar. Whether the ME countries would accept that or the US would block it at UN level I dunno.

As far as I know Hamas are not in control of the west bank, but there are problems over land going on there as well.

 

[dunover]

Person jumps over fence, kicks rottweiler in the bollocks, kills some of its puppies and fucks off back again.

Rottweiler jumps fence after them and proceeds to exact retribution.

First one is okay bar a few sympathetic soundbites.

Second is not okay, it's a crime against humanity.

Fifth column in the UK plus Corbyn etc. comes out frothing at the mouth about the second.

P.S. I've not time for either of their medieval religious systems and beliefs.

P.P.S. It was fine for the US and UK to drop bombs in Crapghanistan, Syria, Iraq and Libya in our pursuit of Bin Laden and ISIS which had the same collateral casualties as the present Israeli strikes?

Definitely an undercurrent of antisemitism here, which we know historically from Labour is the domain of the left and their attempts to ingratiate the islamist community for votes. I wondered if anyone watched GB News questioning the demonstrators about the situation. The ignorance and absence of facts amongst them was shocking, very torch and pitchfork.

 

[goatwack]

Recent findings regarding the October 7th massacre are believed to have highlighted Israel's deployment of the 'Hannibal Directive', which pertains to Israeli soldiers using 'any means' to prevent Israeli hostages being taken to Gaza.

Notwithstanding Israel's disproportionate 9-month slaughter campaign, questions will now be asked as to which side killed whom on that fateful day, despite the obvious Hamas-instigated actions.

This genocide shows no signs of abating, seemingly, and this oft-guarded directive about to stir up more confusion, misinformation and conspiracy theories.

“I can’t say there was a clear instruction, but everyone knew what it meant to not let any vehicles return to Gaza.”

 

[Kroffe]

Recent findings regarding the October 7th massacre are believed to have highlighted Israel's deployment of the 'Hannibal Directive', which pertains to Israeli soldiers using 'any means' to prevent Israeli hostages being taken to Gaza.

Notwithstanding Israel's disproportionate 9-month slaughter campaign, questions will now be asked as to which side killed whom on that fateful day, despite the obvious Hamas-instigated actions.

This genocide shows no signs of abating, seemingly, and this oft-guarded directive about to stir up more confusion, misinformation and conspiracy theories.

“I can’t say there was a clear instruction, but everyone knew what it meant to not let any vehicles return to Gaza.”

By the looks of it their 'defense' wont stop until they have taken Gaza for themselves.
And of course anyone that does not fully support them in doing so is basically Hitler, which is a bit ironic considering which side is attempting a genocide this time around.

 

[itsme123]

Would have been resolved months ago if the cowards of Hamas hadnt hidden behind the skirts of women, the children in classrooms, the doctors and nurses in the hospitals.
As soon as Hamas come out into the open and stp hiding behind the innocents, then the resolution will happen.

 

[Kroffe]

If you think standing behind innocent civilians or hiding in hospitals would somehow keep you safe from Israels attacks you have not been paying attention.
Not even humanitarian aid workers driving clearly marked vans on a route reported to Israel military is safe from Israels 'precision' strikes.
a 'woopsie' according to Israel but given the circumstances it seemed a lot more like they were sending a message.

Had it been any other country so consistently breaking international law regarding war other countries would have intervened a long time ago.
Obviously Hamas is not in the right, but neither is Israel.

 

[DreamRJ]

If you think standing behind innocent civilians or hiding in hospitals would somehow keep you safe from Israels attacks you have not been paying attention.
Not even humanitarian aid workers driving clearly marked vans on a route reported to Israel military is safe from Israels 'precision' strikes.
a 'woopsie' according to Israel but given the circumstances it seemed a lot more like they were sending a message.

Had it been any other country so consistently breaking international law regarding war other countries would have intervened a long time ago.
Obviously Hamas is not in the right, but neither is Israel.

Yeah but hang on a minute, Russia is getting away with breaking international laws all the time, The real situation is Nato and the west are doing nothing in relation to boots on the grounds because they do not want Russia to retaliate and drop the first nuke and then it is the end game for the whole world.

What Israel is doing now is 100% war crimes and I am 100% against what they are doing. The ratio between the number of children and adults killed in Gaza compared to how many Hamas killed on October 7th is disgusting and shocking, not even sure what the number is now 50K and majority of them was children. All in the name of thinking they was a threat and potentially linked to "hamas".

Look I get and understand Israel had the right to respond but the fact is they have and stated multiple times when they first retaliated that they want to "cleanse" Gaza and they will never do a 2 state solution. So basically the west keep sticking by Israel and it is appalling. I mean yes we have a Labour government now but it is no longer to the left so their stance will be standing with Israel. But I would guess they are torn.

For a start, Western countries including the UK need to STOP selling arms to Israel once and for all. It is now escalating into other countries and that is not going to end well either.

The state of the world right now is scary as fuck.

But hey if all these wars do escalate to Putin dropping a nuke then we should be thankful that we would not even know about it, only takes like 8mins for the ICBM nuke to reach us from Russia and we would not even know, it would be instant and we would all die instantly.

 

[Kroffe]

Yeah but hang on a minute, Russia is getting away with breaking international laws all the time, The real situation is Nato and the west are doing nothing in relation to boots on the grounds because they do not want Russia to retaliate and drop the first nuke and then it is the end game for the whole world.

What Israel is doing now is 100% war crimes and I am 100% against what they are doing. The ratio between the number of children and adults killed in Gaza compared to how many Hamas killed on October 7th is disgusting and shocking, not even sure what the number is now 50K and majority of them was children. All in the name of thinking they was a threat and potentially linked to "hamas".

Look I get and understand Israel had the right to respond but the fact is they have and stated multiple times when they first retaliated that they want to "cleanse" Gaza and they will never do a 2 state solution. So basically the west keep sticking by Israel and it is appalling. I mean yes we have a Labour government now but it is no longer to the left so their stance will be standing with Israel. But I would guess they are torn.

For a start, Western countries including the UK need to STOP selling arms to Israel once and for all. It is now escalating into other countries and that is not going to end well either.

The state of the world right now is scary as fuck.

But hey if all these wars do escalate to Putin dropping a nuke then we should be thankful that we would not even know about it, only takes like 8mins for the ICBM nuke to reach us from Russia and we would not even know, it would be instant and we would all die instantly.

But countries are intervening in the Russia-Ukraine war in pretty much every way except for boots on the ground while at the same time turning a blind eye to what is happening between Israel & Gaza.

 

[goatwack]

In regards to Labour's stance to the conflict, I foresee many a divide as to how to even begin resolving the situation, given that Rachel Reeves is a longstanding advocate of 'Labour Friends of Israel', whilst e.g Angela Rayner and others stating they'd officially recognize the State of Palestine!

 

[DreamRJ]

But countries are intervening in the Russia-Ukraine war in pretty much every way except for boots on the ground while at the same time turning a blind eye to what is happening between Israel & Gaza.

Yes and I am amazed Putin is letting them without much escalation. What the west and Nato countries have been doing is keep pushing the boundaries and waiting to see if they get away with more and more help in Ukraine.

Fun fact there actually is boots on the ground from western countries already who is working on the front lines under medical badges or humanitarian badges but there is also military personal from other countries as well who volunteered but they are technically not fighting on behalf of the country they are from. They just want to help any way they can.

Putin also knows about that as well. He has not escalated yet and hope he will not. I think Putin knows deep down that he knows if he does a nuke its over for him as well so it is all just fear mongering and rhetoric that Putin keeps doing.

We should probably be thankful really. But anyway this thread is about Israel not Ukraine. I probably should not have mentioned it but I thought I had to.

 

[DreamRJ]

In regards to Labour's stance to the conflict, I foresee many a divide as to how to even begin resolving the situation, given that Rachel Reeves is a longstanding advocate of 'Labour Friends of Israel', whilst e.g Angela Rayner and others stating they'd officially recognize the State of Palestine!

Yeah I am for a 2 state solution.

I am for Israel but I am also for Gaza I am split in the middle. It is a very difficult subject and causes a lot of upset and you have to be super careful how you say things etc without causing upset towards either side as well. Being in the middle makes it easier but we still need to watch how we speak.

 

[The Dude]

Amazing how two groups of people who worship the same god, have virtually the same belief system, eat more or less eat the same food, are all related as cousins, they even circumcise their boys as a cult offering - and they are fighting over the same piece of barren dirt - and for what?

This reminds me of the Star Trek episode -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This was as poignant then (nearly 60 years ago) as it is now. If you haven't seen that episode, please do.

 

[ollygarch]

Unfortunately I don't see an early end to the slaughter. Israel has been playing the WW2 card for decades to justify pretty much any aggression against any group or individual they don't like. Hamas have fallen into the trap of being too visible and the Palestinians are paying a high price as a result.

 

[SlotsGuy]

Discussions like this should be kept to Twitter/Telegram etc, people come on here to get away from the evil acts, propaganda and fear across the world caused by the psychopaths who have ruled this earth for to long. It's a gambling forum.

I won't be taking any sides, as this is exactly what the evil wants devision & war between each other. Instead let's focus on those actually pulling the strings.

Just because you see a short 20 second video on Twitter doesn't always mean it's true & really happening. Question everything.....

Peace & Freedom for all of humanity.

 

[goatwack]

Following on from yesterday's pager detonations, it now appears that Hezbollah walkie-talkies are exploding en masse, killing nine and injuring hundreds....

Pretty devious stuff no doubt, whilst not only causing carnage, paranoia and confusion, but crippling their communications and logistics infrastructure

 

[geordiecolin]

Following on from yesterday's pager detonations, it now appears that Hezbollah walkie-talkies are exploding en masse, killing nine and injuring hundreds....

Pretty devious stuff no doubt, whilst not only causing carnage, paranoia and confusion, but crippling their communications and logistics infrastructure

Also it is reported that Cars, mobile phones, intercoms, solar panels, batteries and radio's are among the devices exploding. I read that components in all of these and more are produced in Israel. If this is all true then what does it mean for our safety? It is pure evil

 

[justdoit]

Also it is reported that Cars, mobile phones, intercoms, solar panels, batteries and radio's are among the devices exploding. I read that components in all of these and more are produced in Israel. If this is all true then what does it mean for our safety? It is pure evil

The new radios of the Hezbollah

 

[dunover]

Following on from yesterday's pager detonations, it now appears that Hezbollah walkie-talkies are exploding en masse, killing nine and injuring hundreds....

Pretty devious stuff no doubt, whilst not only causing carnage, paranoia and confusion, but crippling their communications and logistics infrastructure

As well as showering bystanders with detached testicles and fingers.

Are we sure it's not just the standard behaviour of Chinese knock-off li-on batteries?

 

[dealer wins]

 

[dunover]

Don't laugh, London is fucked if this walkie-talkie goes bang.

 

[dunover]

View attachment 201054

iPhone? Crapple would sell that for £1599.99 as an upgrade.