Is this normal (Welcome bonus)

[PankkiRikki]

I took 100% match and also was ''rewarded'' 50 freespins. So i Lost the deposit + bonus to a zero balance, and started to play the free spins. Just to notice after i played them the deposit bonus was suddenly again there?(sticky bonus)?? Even tough i tried, i did no find such a terms that the spins and the bonus both have to wagered even after you loose initial bonus + deposit. The support seems not to understand at all, that i think there was just a bug in the the system and the bonus did not clear away normally.

Has any one ever dealt this kinda ''problem''?

The casino is on a Microgaming platform

 

[dunover]

I took 100% match and also was ''rewarded'' 50 freespins. So i Lost the deposit + bonus to a zero balance, and started to play the free spins. Just to notice after i played them the deposit bonus was suddenly again there?(bonuscarryover)?? Even tough i tried, i did no find such a terms that the spins and the bonus both have to wagered even after you loose initial bonus + deposit. The support seems not to understand at all, that i think there was just a bug in the the system and the bonus did not clear away normally.

Has any one ever dealt this kinda ''problem''?

The casino is on a Microgaming platform

Microgaming casinos to my knowledge do not do 'sticky' bonuses - they are rogue generally unless they're cash drip-feeds like say Betspin do which are withdrawable at all times. I'd say an error has occurred.

 

[PankkiRikki]

This casino cannot be rogue as they are accredited, but since i took a look at their terms i found something odd.

Standards for Accredited Casinos
Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C

The casinos term 4.3. The player's play is constantly monitored for any irregular playing patterns. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings


Somehow the support was also giving me other information than their actual terms&cons, something needs to be updated?

*EDIT* Their terms did has section where the irregular playing patterns had been specified, so my bad on that part

 

[bigjohn]

This casino cannot be rogue as they are accredited, but since i took a look at their terms i found something odd.

Standards for Accredited Casinos
Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C

The casinos term 4.3. The player's play is constantly monitored for any irregular playing patterns. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings


Somehow the support was also giving me other information than their actual terms&cons, something needs to be updated?

*EDIT* Their terms did has section where the irregular playing patterns had been specified, so my bad on that part

I'm not sure how this post of yours pertains to your original problem but if there was a problem concerning irregular play I would take the bolded part above to mean that the casino should be able to specify exactly what the breach was. In those bonus terms section 4.1 spells out examples of what would be considered unusal play and here they are;

4.1. The player's use of any of the Casino bonuses is subject to our review for irregular playing patterns. To ensure fair gaming and the proper use of bonuses, we consider low margin betting, equal betting, zero risk bets or hedge betting to be irregular gaming when deployed to exploit bonuses. Further examples of irregular playing patterns also include, but are not limited to:
(i) placing single or multiple bets of a value of 20% or more of the bonus amount awarded on any single game, individual hand, or round, building a balance and significantly changing play patterns (bet size, game types, bet structures, etc.) in order to meet the bonus playthrough requirements (this rule does not apply to balances of 20 or less);
(ii) placing large bets that result in a substantial gain followed by a drop in bet size equal to or more than 75% of the previous average bets until the bonus playthrough requirements have been met;
(iii) if we have good grounds to suspect that the player has sought only to exploit a bonus offered by the Casino in good faith to enhance the player's entertainment (for example, on acceptance of a bonus the minimum wagering requirement is met and funds are subsequently withdrawn).
(iv) postponing free spins feature or bonus feature to a later time in which you have no more wagering and/or making a new deposit while having free spins feature or bonus feature still available to you.

 

[hedgehok]

That's a common bug in Microgaming download casinos. It will just refresh the bonus-balance in some circumstances.
The "system" takes a few minutes to actually book out the bonus from your balance. I know it sounds weird because if you have a balance of 0,00€ the bonus-balance should be voided - BUT if your total-balance rises again above 0,00 the (old) bonus balance will re-appear (this can also happen when you make a fresh deposit - so always have an eye on your total balance).

By the way something like that can also happen when you get a tournament prize. I once got a 4,000€ prize at on of those major tournaments that take part once a quarter and played a bonus before that. My balance was at 0,00€ and after my 4,000€ prize was booked in my total balance was 3,950€ cash and 50€ bonus again. That's obviously a problem with the microgaming software but many chat-agents does not seem to know the problem. The casino I was awarded with the tournament win of 4,000€ also refused to fix the issue so I had to play the 50€ bonus (also an accredited casino here!).

Hope this helps a little.

 

[dunover]

This casino cannot be rogue as they are accredited, but since i took a look at their terms i found something odd.

Standards for Accredited Casinos
Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C

The casinos term 4.3. The player's play is constantly monitored for any irregular playing patterns. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings


Somehow the support was also giving me other information than their actual terms&cons, something needs to be updated?

*EDIT* Their terms did has section where the irregular playing patterns had been specified, so my bad on that part

Sorry, I think that was your translation - I refer to a 'sticky' bonus being rogue not the MG casino! That's why I said is was likely an error.

 

[Googobucs]

What exactly are the terms of this bonus? Is there WR tied to the free spins?

I am guessing that it's a 100% bonus and 50 free spins with WR tied to all of it. The free spins are inclusive not exclusive to the bonus. You can't clear your bonus WR and save them until the end.
As BigJohn Points out here:
(iv) postponing free spins feature or bonus feature to a later time in which you have no more wagering and/or making a new deposit while having free spins feature or bonus feature still available to you.

 

[PankkiRikki]

What exactly are the terms of this bonus? Is there WR tied to the free spins?

I am guessing that it's a 100% bonus and 50 free spins with WR tied to all of it. The free spins are inclusive not exclusive to the bonus. You can't clear your bonus WR and save them until the end.
As BigJohn Points out here:
(iv) postponing free spins feature or bonus feature to a later time in which you have no more wagering and/or making a new deposit while having free spins feature or bonus feature still available to you.

Free spins FEATURE. No the spins on them self. I Haven't actually never had deposit bonus tied to the wagering of free spins also. If i loose the deposit bonus it has been voided and i had to only wager the winning amount of the spins . Never had been said i cant play the free spins after iv'e made or did not made the wagering of the deposit bonus.

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Feel free to read them and tell that i am either wrong, or it was a bug therefore had too much wagering to do?

3.2. All bonuses must be fully wagered within 60 days from day of acceptance. Any balance or winning balance that was created by a bonus which has not met the playthrough requirements will be cancelled and cannot be claimed back

 

[Tirilej]

If your balance was down to 0 the wagering from the deposit+bonus should have been gone.

Sometimes you need to log out and back in again. I always do to be sure before I claim any free spins.

If they can't remove the earlier wagering from the account then I suggest you contact their rep here and maybe she can help you.

 

[Googobucs]

Free spins FEATURE. No the spins on them self. I Haven't actually never had deposit bonus tied to the wagering of free spins also. If i loose the deposit bonus it has been voided and i had to only wager the winning amount of the spins . Never had been said i cant play the free spins after iv'e made or did not made the wagering of the deposit bonus.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Feel free to read them and tell that i am either wrong, or it was a bug therefore had too much wagering to do?

3.2. All bonuses must be fully wagered within 60 days from day of acceptance. Any balance or winning balance that was created by a bonus which has not met the playthrough requirements will be cancelled and cannot be claimed back

It's right there in the T & C


2.5. Any winnings made from free games (free spins) will be added to the player' bonus balance and must be turned over towards the playthrough requirements.

You should also take note of this as it relates to free spins:
2.4. The maximum withdrawal amount for any free no deposit bonus and free games (free spins) is $100 (or the corresponding amount in the account currency) voiding any exceeding funds from the player’s balance.

 

[Tirilej]

It's right there in the T & C


2.5. Any winnings made from free games (free spins) will be added to the player' bonus balance and must be turned over towards the playthrough requirements.

You should also take note of this as it relates to free spins:
2.4. The maximum withdrawal amount for any free no deposit bonus and free games (free spins) is $100 (or the corresponding amount in the account currency) voiding any exceeding funds from the player’s balance.

He should still not need to wager what was left from his earlier deposit+bonus since that was down to 0.

But maybe that's what you meant too

I sent a pm to the rep so she's aware of this thread.

 

[Googobucs]

He should still not need to wager what was left from his earlier deposit+bonus since that was down to 0.

But maybe that's what you meant too

I sent a pm to the rep so she's aware of this thread.

Actually, it is my opinion that the free spins are tied to the deposit and bonus and should be included as part of the original WR. Was it one single offer of 100% plus 50 spins or Two offers with the second being 50 free spins after the completion of the first bonus? I see the bonus amount and free spins as being inclusive of one another not exclusive unless he first claimed a 100% bonus code and then as a result of claiming that was given the 50 free spins as a separate bonus.

 

[Tirilej]

Actually, it is my opinion that the free spins are tied to the deposit and bonus and should be included as part of the original WR. Was it one single offer of 100% plus 50 spins or Two offers with the second being 50 free spins after the completion of the first bonus? I see the bonus amount and free spins as being inclusive of one another not exclusive unless he first claimed a 100% bonus code and then as a result of claiming that was given the 50 free spins as a separate bonus.

I suspected you thought that, because those RTG's sometimes do it like that.
So far I've never heard about an MG who have forced both a deposit bonus + free spin winnings in to one offer.

Let's hope I'm correct on this one

 

[PankkiRikki]

So i was ''robbed'' at least 100€ After the support said everything is ok , even tough it was not. I just tried to wager the ''extra'' bonus also = bust. I would have had balance about 170€ with only the bonus amount wagered of the free spins, so the casino would have actually made 70€ ? Even so would be nice hear the reps opinion on this

 

[Tirilej]

So i was ''robbed'' at least 100€

No you were not, because as soon as you noticed that something was wrong you shouldn't have played more.
If you did and then lost before you knew or it had been corrected, you can't blame anyone else.

 

[PankkiRikki]

No you were not, because as soon as you noticed that something was wrong you shouldn't have played more.
If you did and then lost before you knew or it had been corrected, you can't blame anyone else.

Before i played i did try to fix the bonus balance. If the support says there nothing wrong with my bonus balances, even as i tried to explain the situation , so to them there was nothing to be fixed? O.o
And it would be lovely to hear from Gia does the Bonus amount + Free spins amount combine to one whole bonus? Even if you play the deposit bonus to zero balance

 

[Tirilej]

Before i played i did try to fix the bonus balance. If the support says there nothing wrong with my bonus balances, even as i tried to explain the situation , so to them there was nothing to be fixed? O.o
And it would be lovely to hear from Gia does the Bonus amount + Free spins amount combine to one whole bonus? Even if you play the deposit bonus to zero balance

You fixed your post so it didn't look like you just accused them from stealing or I wouldn't have written that
Some day I maybe will learn to wait a few minutes before responding

I also hope she will clear it up.

 

[Gia - GoWild]

I took 100% match and also was ''rewarded'' 50 freespins. So i Lost the deposit + bonus to a zero balance, and started to play the free spins. Just to notice after i played them the deposit bonus was suddenly again there?(sticky bonus)?? Even tough i tried, i did no find such a terms that the spins and the bonus both have to wagered even after you loose initial bonus + deposit. The support seems not to understand at all, that i think there was just a bug in the the system and the bonus did not clear away normally.

Has any one ever dealt this kinda ''problem''?

The casino is on a Microgaming platform

Hello Riku,


Thank you for bringing this to my attention and I apologize for any misunderstanding or inconvenience. Yet I would like to clarify this for you.

First of all I want to mention that both the 100% bonus and the 50 free spins were issued as one special offer for the same deposit. Furthermore, even though you eventually played your initial balance to 0, you had not finished the wagering requirements for that 100% bonus. Therefore, your bonus balance was not reset.

Consequently, when you played your free spins, the winnings from those spins were added to the bonus balance, along with their wagering requirements. And the bonus amount from the spins combined with the one from the percentage bonus, as they were both part of the same promotion.

I know that this can seem a bit confusing, yet the bottom line is that when you receive a bonus of any kind, your bonus balance will be fully reset to zero once you finish the wagering requirements for that bonus, when you make a new deposit or when we manually reset it for you. So should you encounter any issues with your wagering requirements in the future, please do not hesitate to contact our support team before you start playing, so we can look into it and ensure everything is working properly.

I hope that clarifies everything, yet should you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to contact our support team or PM me.

Regards,
Gia

 

[PankkiRikki]

I think that should be added to the terms, lets say * The amount of the deposit bonus + bonus win from free spins credited must be wagered 40x times Thanx for clarifying this

 

[Tirilej]

Hello Riku,


Thank you for bringing this to my attention and I apologize for any misunderstanding or inconvenience. Yet I would like to clarify this for you.

First of all I want to mention that both the 100% bonus and the 50 free spins were issued as one special offer for the same deposit. Furthermore, even though you eventually played your initial balance to 0, you had not finished the wagering requirements for that 100% bonus. Therefore, your bonus balance was not reset.

Consequently, when you played your free spins, the winnings from those spins were added to the bonus balance, along with their wagering requirements. And the bonus amount from the spins combined with the one from the percentage bonus, as they were both part of the same promotion.

I know that this can seem a bit confusing, yet the bottom line is that when you receive a bonus of any kind, your bonus balance will be fully reset to zero once you finish the wagering requirements for that bonus, when you make a new deposit or when we manually reset it for you. So should you encounter any issues with your wagering requirements in the future, please do not hesitate to contact our support team before you start playing, so we can look into it and ensure everything is working properly.

I hope that clarifies everything, yet should you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to contact our support team or PM me.

Regards,
Gia

I guess I was really wrong then. Sorry for that

I do really hope that you have the rules for that specific promotion clearly written somewhere?
Also if they are forced to play those free spins would be good to know. The risk is that someone wins using the first bonus, but also win a lot from the free spins and then fail managing to wager it all. Just my thoughts though. I don't think I would want to risk it.

 

[PankkiRikki]

They should not call them ''free'' spins if they are bound to the deposit bonus. Since their terms has section of FREE bonus /spins saying 50x wagering and max 100€ cashout. Made my head spinning what is the terms of the whole offer or part of them (spins)

 

[Gia - GoWild]

Hi,

Thank you for your feedback. We will definitely keep this suggestion in mind, as we always try to make everything as clear as possible for our players

However, just to set things straight I want to mention the fact that each mixed promotion containing credits and free spins behaves like one single bonus, since the credits and spins are issued together for a deposit.

So if the player decides to postpone the free spins for a later time, when the bonus credits are lost, the wagering requirements for the entire promotion should still be completed in order to withdraw.

I hope that answers your questions.

Regards,
Gia

 

[Tirilej]

Hi,

Thank you for your feedback. We will definitely keep this suggestion in mind, as we always try to make everything as clear as possible for our players

However, just to set things straight I want to mention the fact that each mixed promotion containing credits and free spins behaves like one single bonus, since the credits and spins are issued together for a deposit.

So if the player decides to postpone the free spins for a later time, when the bonus credits are lost, the wagering requirements for the entire promotion should still be completed in order to withdraw.

I hope that answers your questions.

Regards,
Gia

Yes it does answer my question.

What you need to have in mind is that almost every other casino these days are offering both a deposit bonus + free spins as a welcome offer.
They consider them like different bonuses and are often crediting the free spins the day after. Sometimes over several days to stretch them out, and each one have their own wagering requierments.
Since most players are used to that these kind of confusions will be common.
So please make those rules as clear as possible

 

[PankkiRikki]

Yes it does answer my question.

What you need to have in mind is that almost every other casino these days are offering both a deposit bonus + free spins as a welcome offer.
They consider it like different and are often crediting the free spins the day after. Sometimes over several days to stretch them out, and each one have their own wagering requierments.
Since most players are used to that these kind of confusions will be common.
So please make those rules as clear as possible

Exactly! This is the reason why i got so confused / sure the was bug on the system. First casino iv'e confronted that did not separate the bonus and spins from each other

Wont be claiming any deposit ''free'' spins there anymore

 

[dunover]

Hi,

Thank you for your feedback. We will definitely keep this suggestion in mind, as we always try to make everything as clear as possible for our players

However, just to set things straight I want to mention the fact that each mixed promotion containing credits and free spins behaves like one single bonus, since the credits and spins are issued together for a deposit.

So if the player decides to postpone the free spins for a later time, when the bonus credits are lost, the wagering requirements for the entire promotion should still be completed in order to withdraw.

I hope that answers your questions.

Regards,
Gia

That's bad really. So say the player busts out (like the OP did) with say 1000 WR remaining then takes his free games later:

He wins £10 with them which has a 50x WR of £500. He is also restricted to a £100 withdraw. So he proceeds to try and wager this £10 50 times, and then finds he actually has to wager it 150 times as he carries over the 1k from the original SUB?

This is effectively then a 'sticky' bonus that is being carried over to a separate promotion. Borderline rogue IMO.

Mad. The terms need to recommend that the player plays the free games BEFORE proceeding with his deposit/SUB play.

If he does that, then I take it the £100 max cash-out won't apply as he has absorbed the free games within his normal deposit/SUB play which has no maximum?

The terms are badly lacking in clarity.

 

[PankkiRikki]

There was no mentioning that the spins had to played straight away or needed to wager the amount of deposit Bonus + Bonus from free spins x times. I assumed these terms would be valid

2.3. After the first deposit, any free bonus must be turned over 50 times before any withdrawal request is made and can be claimed only once per computer or household. Play at certain games will contribute a different percentage to the playthrough requirements. Check here the playthrough contribution percentage

2.4. The maximum withdrawal amount for any free no deposit bonus and free games (free spins) is $100 (or the corresponding amount in the account currency) voiding any exceeding funds from the player’s balance.

If i would managed to wager the whole amount with the bonus won from free spins and say won 3k total, would have these terms then became effective?

 

[Googobucs]

That's bad really. So say the player busts out (like the OP did) with say 1000 WR remaining then takes his free games later:

He wins £10 with them which has a 50x WR of £500. He is also restricted to a £100 withdraw. So he proceeds to try and wager this £10 50 times, and then finds he actually has to wager it 150 times as he carries over the 1k from the original SUB?

This is effectively then a 'sticky' bonus that is being carried over to a separate promotion. Borderline rogue IMO.

Mad. The terms need to recommend that the player plays the free games BEFORE proceeding with his deposit/SUB play.

If he does that, then I take it the £100 max cash-out won't apply as he has absorbed the free games within his normal deposit/SUB play which has no maximum?

The terms are badly lacking in clarity.

In all fairness, every time I have received free spins with a deposit bonus I have always understood that the deposit bonus and free spins were a combined offer that went together. That is why I made the argument that I did. In Fact RTG software directs you to play the free spins immediately.

It seems that this software (MG) either cannot or did not direct the player to use the free spins first but it probably should have in this case.

So it looks like there are 2 different types of offers being made by many casinos and it's important for players to know the difference when accepting them.

1. A bonus that includes free spins.
2. A bonus that once completed will earn you free spins as a separate bonus.

If every time I got free spins with a bonus it was after the fact, I would have been just as confused as the OP. Since Ive always gotten them upfront I would be confused if I did not get them right away.

Both are valid bonus structures it's a matter of the player understanding what they are getting.

 

[PankkiRikki]

I dont play RTG , just casinos that have all top providers / Microgaming downloadable software. Neither on these there was never any bonuses left behind after the deposit bonus was either cleared or busted out before meeting wr, when i have played the spins always afterwards. Since today many casinos are also offering the spins wager free were they with or without deposit bonus.

 

[Gia - GoWild]

Hi everyone,

Indeed, as mentioned in the terms and condition, the maximum withdrawal for no deposit free spins or no deposit bonuses is $100.

However, the free spins PankkiRikki received were part of a deposit promo and they were issued on top of the deposit bonus, while PankkiRikki still had the deposit and bonus balance in the account, not after he had finished playing.

Therefore, as it was explained to him on Livechat when the free spins were issued, the spins did not have any maximum withdrawal limit.

Nevertheless, we will take the feedback all of you gave us on this matter and we will see what changes we can make to avoid any misunderstandings in the future.

With that in mind, we also managed to give PankkiRikki another chance to win, to make up for the misunderstanding. PankkiRikki you have a PM with all the details.

Regards,
Gia

 

[PankkiRikki]

Yes. The account was added 1000 loyalty points = 1€ . I dont mean to disrespect you but lol..

 

[Tirilej]

Yes. The account was added 1000 loyalty points = 1€ . I dont mean to disrespect you but lol..

Hey, that's 100 spins on 1 line

 

[PankkiRikki]

BTW, i was on a mobile, therefore!! THIS offer were just a normal promotional mater.(my friend got the same mail 1000 points free + 5000 more for depsosit over 20 or more) iv'e would have not even able to to redeem the 1k point without the base 4,*K points, so shame on you trying to give me this AS '' we also managed to give PankkiRikki another chance to win, make up for the misunderstanding. I can swallow the misleading / terms / that i lost technically100€(even i should not) ......But CMON Please make your terms clear about ''FREE'' SPINS/BONUS & DEPOSIT SPINS!!! And don't try sugar coat things

 

[PankkiRikki]

Am i just retard or are the terms really just misleading?

Some how the screenshot got double posted, i just circled part that gia brought up in the other , (tryin to edit screenis/delete wont work?)