Is this a bonus?

[Marie2473]

Yesterday I was playing at a playtech casino - which Ive had great experiances with and I really love the games, the staff and the atmosphere in general.
I deposited 50 dollars and used no bonus, I started playing - had a great time and the wins kept falling in. I played for hours and I was up to about $600 dollars, I then got a flash message saying that I had just been credited a 50 dollar birthday bonus for beeing such a valued player. I immidiately stopped playing since I first wanted to check it out.
I went to livechat and was told that the bonus had an 8x rollover requirement. I then asked them to remove it since i didnt wanna wager the bonus with these money that I had already won.
I was told that it would be removed but it would take a "while" since he had to send it to finances. He didnt know how long a while would be.
Since my neteller was empty and I was on a roll I really wanted to play and he convinced me that 400 would be a piece of cake to rollover - and I actually thought so too so i decided to keep playing and try to make the wagering.. Which I did!
I went down to 500 and decided to cashout since the games were getting really tight..
Made the withdrawl and just 12 hours later the money was in my neteller accoun - only it was not 500, it was 450. They had taken the bonusmoney back since its not cashable..
I knew that they had this rule on deposit bonuses - however I didnt think that that rule would apply when getting a 50 dollar birthday bonus - with 8times wagering , that I wagered with the 600 dollars i had already won
Do you consider this a bonus?

Since I dont wanna trash the casino in anyway - Ive had a great time there and I will go back again. I just wanna get some opinions.

 

[eu_lowroller]

Why in the hell did they gave you this useless bonus during your normal play without any bonus?

This have really no sin, since it's a non-cashable bonus, but it looks like, that they only wanted you to play a little bit longer in the hope, that you lose a little bit back for them!

They could give you the bonus, after you've made your first withdrawal, or even before you start to making a deposit, but never during your play with your own real money!

Name and shame, i would say

 

[De Beuker]

So, if I understand your story right, they throw in a 50 bonus at the moment you have a fully cashable 600 balance?!
Then you're suddenly tied to 400 playthrough, and after clearing that they took back the 50??!!
Thats close to rogue behavior, VERY close..
Happy birthday btw!

 

[Marie2473]

So, if I understand your story right, they throw in a 50 bonus at the moment you have a fully cashable 600 balance?!
Then you're suddenly tied to 400 playthrough, and after clearing that they took back the 50??!!
Thats close to rogue behavior, VERY close..
Happy birthday btw!

Yep, you understood me fully...
Thanks for the birthday wish =)

 

[De Beuker]

Yep, you understood me fully...
Thanks for the birthday wish =)

You're welcome

Let me put it this way, if it happened to me I would have been furious, absolutely furious.
You even asked them to remove it, and they come up with this 'finance department' BS, so they fully knew what they were doing.
As eu_lowroller mentioned, a non-cashable bonus should only be given at a moment you have NO cashable balance otherwise its useless.
This is just a very dirty trick, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[rockycatt]

Why in the hell did they gave you this useless bonus during your normal play without any bonus?

This have really no sin, since it's a non-cashable bonus, but it looks like, that they only wanted you to play a little bit longer in the hope, that you lose a little bit back for them!

They could give you the bonus, after you've made your first withdrawal, or even before you start to making a deposit, but never during your play with your own real money!

Name and shame, i would say

I agree

 

[Marie2473]

You're welcome

Let me put it this way, if it happened to me I would have been furious, absolutely furious.
You even asked them to remove it, and they come up with this 'finance department' BS, so they fully knew what they were doing.
As eu_lowroller mentioned, a non-cashable bonus should only be given at a moment you have NO cashable balance otherwise its useless.
This is just a very dirty trick, nothing more, nothing less.

Well, I guess I am also at fault. I could have waited for them to remove it, but on the other hand I was really in the mood to keep going when the slots were hot =)
Good to know that i am not the only one who thought it was wrong. I even pointed it out to them when I recived my withdrawl today in an email and I got a reply back saying;

It is good to know that you love playing here at our Casino. However, with regards to your bonus concern, we would like to inform you that it is not all the time that we give Birthday Bonus to our players since it is not in our Promotions. But since you are a valued player, we have coordinated your request and have given you a Birthday Bonus worth US$50.
(not a request, I asked in chat several days ago if i could geta match bonus since it was my birthday))

However, please be reminded that we have our Bonus General Conditions and Limitations which applies to all bonuses received. It states there that all bonus received are only for wagering purposes and bonus amounts will be removed from a withdrawal before processing. This is why you have only received US$450.00 for your NETeller withdrawal request.

I dont have a problem with their rules, just that they gave me, what they call a bonus at the middle of my play, and then took it back at time of withdrawl. They shoudl have waited until I had cashed out, or made my next deposit...
That was my opinion and by writing this i just wanted to make sure that I was not wrong by thinking so!
doesnt change anything - but atleast I feel better =)

 

[De Beuker]

ROFL, just as I thought, you are sooo ungrateful!
You should have said Thank you instead of complaining!
Its a GIFT, we are so generous!
My advice: UNINSTALL!

(Ofcourse you play on, and they knew that very well, you were on a roll and the last thing you want is quit until their 'finance department' gets back to you)

 

[Stovetopp]

Marie, I would leave that casino immediately!

If you are such a valued customer, then ask them to return your $50 bucks or adios ,crooks!
There are zillions of online casinos out there and you are not from good old USA, so why tolerate such roguish behaviour?

 

[Klub8]

All I can say is... oops!

In our rush to try and fix things, our internal communication was not complete. Support did the right thing as all bonuses at Klub8 are removed when a cashout occurs - this is why we can offer the low 8x playthrough, instead of the 15x or higher you see at most casinos.

However - the $50 was intended to be a *gift*, albeit with playthrough, rather than a *bonus*. I am now checking to see what we can do, but I expect this will be rectified shortly.

I apologize to Marie in advance - but many congratulations on your winnings

Regards,

The Klub8 Team

 

[Marie2473]

I have been contacted by a Rep who is looking into it and trying to work something out as we speak!

Edit - I now see that u have named youself =) Thanks for looking into it!

 

[Wildfire7]

It seems highly irregular to have a birthday bonus magically appear during play, it does beg the question, would this bonus of appeared if you had of busted out.

IMO additional bonuses should not be appearing at all mid session, even if a player has opted into a casinos bonus scheme then they should put a yes/no acceptance button on the popup box giving you the choice.

The fact that is is non cashable is fine, but again this should also be stated on the popup box along with playthrough requirements and a clear link to the bonus t&c's.

Sometimes I have found during a session a bonus has appeared out of the blue with not even a popup box, so you are left unsure if you just had a win or a bonus.

As far as I am concerned the only bonus that should be automatic is a monthly reload, where the player has opted in. The rest should have to be claimed for, or added when the players account is zero.

In the case described in this thread it is only by good fortune the player was well up. If this players bankroll had of been only 50.00 then the appearance of a bonus with playthrough would have made it much more difficult to wager through.

Mike

 

[Klub8]

Hi Mike!

Do keep in mind that it was intended to be a gift - it certainly wasn't intended to interfere with ongoing play. Ideally there would be some way to automatically hold a bonus while funds are in the account, or there is ongoing activity, but that kind of thing isn't built into the system.

Other bonuses such as the welcome bonus actually do show a popup and tell you that a bonus has been put into your account and to tell support that you don't want it - as far as I know Klub8 is the only one that does this however.

There are some things we can automate and we try to do so in order to make the player experience as smooth as possible - and there are some things we wish we could do - but at the moment this is not one of those things we can do.

Marie did indicate that she wanted it removed, which is entirely correct - and support did give the correct answer in this case although with other bonuses, they can be removed right away. Since it was a gift, it did require management intervention - but then somehow it subsequently got treated as a standard bonus.

We will look to see if we can add additional information to the popups - like a link to T&Cs or something. I am not sure this is possible, as this should have been done the first time around - but I'll check again.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,

The Klub8 Team

It seems highly irregular to have a birthday bonus magically appear during play, it does beg the question, would this bonus of appeared if you had of busted out.

IMO additional bonuses should not be appearing at all mid session, even if a player has opted into a casinos bonus scheme then they should put a yes/no acceptance button on the popup box giving you the choice.

The fact that is is non cashable is fine, but again this should also be stated on the popup box along with playthrough requirements and a clear link to the bonus t&c's.

Sometimes I have found during a session a bonus has appeared out of the blue with not even a popup box, so you are left unsure if you just had a win or a bonus.

As far as I am concerned the only bonus that should be automatic is a monthly reload, where the player has opted in. The rest should have to be claimed for, or added when the players account is zero.

In the case described in this thread it is only by good fortune the player was well up. If this players bankroll had of been only 50.00 then the appearance of a bonus with playthrough would have made it much more difficult to wager through.

Mike

 

[GrandMaster]

All I can say is... oops!

In our rush to try and fix things, our internal communication was not complete. Support did the right thing as all bonuses at Klub8 are removed when a cashout occurs - this is why we can offer the low 8x playthrough, instead of the 15x or higher you see at most casinos.

However - the $50 was intended to be a *gift*, albeit with playthrough, rather than a *bonus*. I am now checking to see what we can do, but I expect this will be rectified shortly.

I apologize to Marie in advance - but many congratulations on your winnings

Regards,

The Klub8 Team

It was a worthless "gift". The value of a phantom bonus, even without any wagering requirement, decreases with the player's cashable balance, and above a certain amount of cashable balance, the bonus has 0 value, in other words, to maximise his expectation the player should cash out and forfeit the bonus.

 

[chayton]

This is interesting, awhile ago I was playing at iNetBet with my own money (no bonus) and suddenly my balace jumped up and I received an email that they had credited my manager bonus - which comes with playthrough AND a max cashout. I wasn't really doing that well anyhow so I just found a losing game (not THAT hard to do) and just blew the whole works. I wrote to iNetBet to tell them about it and they responded saying that they don't usually credit the manager bonus while the player was playing or while there were funds in the account. So unfortunately it was a mistake, but it was THEIR mistake and they took responsibility for it and said that if I had won anything the playthrough (or a portion of it) and/or max cashout would not apply and they would have paid no question.

In my view, receiving an unasked for bonus that comes with WR during regular play should never have happened. That being said although I personally don't play at Klub8, they have a good reputation and they seem fair and reasonable and I hope they fix this to the OP's satisfaction.

To the OP, happy belated birthday and congrats on the win!

 

[Stovetopp]

All I can say is... oops!

In our rush to try and fix things, our internal communication was not complete. Support did the right thing as all bonuses at Klub8 are removed when a cashout occurs - this is why we can offer the low 8x playthrough, instead of the 15x or higher you see at most casinos.

However - the $50 was intended to be a *gift*, albeit with playthrough, rather than a *bonus*. I am now checking to see what we can do, but I expect this will be rectified shortly.

I apologize to Marie in advance - but many congratulations on your winnings

Regards,

The Klub8 Team

KUDOS to KLUB8 for looking into this matter..I now withdraw my nasty comments and apolgize to KLUB8 and to Marie for implying she was a "fool" to play there anymore...Now , if I could play at KLUB8, I would sign up immediately!!!

 

[Klub8]

Hi Grandmaster!

I think you've missed the point - the "gift" wasn't supposed to be "phantom". However we did not communicate that properly internally. That is what we're trying to fix now

Regards,

The Klub8 Team

It was a worthless "gift". The value of a phantom bonus, even without any wagering requirement, decreases with the player's cashable balance, and above a certain amount of cashable balance, the bonus has 0 value, in other words, to maximise his expectation the player should cash out and forfeit the bonus.

 

[De Beuker]

KUDOS to KLUB8 for looking into this matter..I now withdraw my nasty comments and apolgize to KLUB8 and to Marie for implying she was a "fool" to play there anymore...Now , if I could play at KLUB8, I would sign up immediately!!!

I second that, didn't know it was about an accredited casino
Thought maybe some sh*tty place like Cityclub..
But then the WR had ofcourse been 99 times or more, lol.
Glad this gets solved!

 

[GrandMaster]

Hi Grandmaster!

I think you've missed the point - the "gift" wasn't supposed to be "phantom". However we did not communicate that properly internally. That is what we're trying to fix now

Regards,

The Klub8 Team

Do you mean maybe a cashable bonus or a true gift, with no strings attached? "Gift" is not defined in your T&C, so I have no way of knowing what you mean by it.

 

[Marie2473]

I am confident that they will work it out somehow and that I in the end will be happy with the result. i will keep you updated!

 

[Klub8]

Hi Grandmaster!

In my mind, a gift is something you give to someone - not something you give and then take back. If you follow this line of thinking, then the gift should not have been "phantom". So yes, a cashable bonus.

Regards,

The Klub8 Team

Do you mean maybe a cashable bonus or a true gift, with no strings attached? "Gift" is not defined in your T&C, so I have no way of knowing what you mean by it.

 

[newjam]

There is so much rogue behaviour around you really have to be on your toes with casinos these days. I hope the rep can soon tell us he has refunded the player 150 he had before being foced to play a bonus.

 

[Marie2473]

They are alot of rouge behaviour going around, however I did really trust this casino since they are accredited and I didnt have any problems at all in the past.
I am glad that they have explained it all as beeing a mistake and that they are trying to sort something out. I still havent heard anything but hopefully it is just a matter of time...

 

[Marie2473]

Update;
Still not resolved, but I got an PM yesterday morning saying that they are trying to work "something" out.
I will keep u updated, if anyones interested, hehe!

 

[Marie2473]

Well, another update - still nothing has happened. Will return again if it does...

 

[vinylweatherman]

They should NOT delay. They saved themselves from a PR disaster by explaining what went wrong, but are now heading for another by dithering over how to fix it.

The fix should be simple, put the player back to the position they would have been in had the mistake not happened, or as close as can be done.

So far, it seems that management are dithering, and the player is not seeing much in the way of communication.

Management should come up with a proposal, and quickly, and put it to the player. If the player says "yes", fine - problem solved.

Looking at the original story, the player first cashed out on $500, and this was where the error was made. The WR was irrelevant, since the player wanted to continue playing anyway, and would probably have done so with or without the interruption.

The simplest resolution seems to be to place a $50 cashable replacement gift into the account (NO WR, since this has already been completed on the original gift, prior to the mistake made upon withdrawal), and allow the player to withdraw it, thus correcting the initial erroneous removal of the $50.

I fail to see why it has taken so long to put this proposal together, given that it is only $50, and the casino had already decided to give this player the $50, and the rep has also said it was not supposed to be "phantom", and should have been paid along with the $450 withdrawal.

 

[Marie2473]

They should NOT delay. They saved themselves from a PR disaster by explaining what went wrong, but are now heading for another by dithering over how to fix it.

The fix should be simple, put the player back to the position they would have been in had the mistake not happened, or as close as can be done.

So far, it seems that management are dithering, and the player is not seeing much in the way of communication.

Management should come up with a proposal, and quickly, and put it to the player. If the player says "yes", fine - problem solved.

Looking at the original story, the player first cashed out on $500, and this was where the error was made. The WR was irrelevant, since the player wanted to continue playing anyway, and would probably have done so with or without the interruption.

The simplest resolution seems to be to place a $50 cashable replacement gift into the account (NO WR, since this has already been completed on the original gift, prior to the mistake made upon withdrawal), and allow the player to withdraw it, thus correcting the initial erroneous removal of the $50.

I fail to see why it has taken so long to put this proposal together, given that it is only $50, and the casino had already decided to give this player the $50, and the rep has also said it was not supposed to be "phantom", and should have been paid along with the $450 withdrawal.

The 20th I got a message from the rep here saying that the 50 shuld be in my account now and that I can withdrawl them if I wanted to. This was all I asked for since - like u said - I would have kept playing down to 500 anyhow... and I just wanted the 50 that was taken from me.
I logged in and found nothing, so i sent the rep a msg again, and to this day I did not get a response.
I know that they are busy and might not be able to log in here all the time, however when they said that it was in my account i really expected it to be...
Well, i will be patient =)))

 

[Wildfire7]

The 20th I got a message from the rep here saying that the 50 shuld be in my account now and that I can withdrawl them if I wanted to. This was all I asked for since - like u said - I would have kept playing down to 500 anyhow... and I just wanted the 50 that was taken from me.
I logged in and found nothing, so i sent the rep a msg again, and to this day I did not get a response.
I know that they are busy and might not be able to log in here all the time, however when they said that it was in my account i really expected it to be...
Well, i will be patient =)))

I am very surprised Klub8 still has not resolved this for you. Considering we are talking about such a trivial amount, they do seem to be making a meal of it. What exactly is there to sort out on their part?

A gift as mentioned is an easy way out for them, I mean some casinos will give you 50 chips if you dont like the colour of the lobby!

We are not talking quantitative easing here, just 50 chips. Best of it is, if the player got this 50 straight away they could have probably got it back by now many times over for good PR alone.

Mike

 

[eu_lowroller]

This issue was for me the reason, why i've now uninstalled this casino from my computer!

 

[Marie2473]

Well, i have sent the rep another message wich will be the lasta ttempt for me I guess. It is getting to take a liiiiitle to long!

 

[De Beuker]

Well, i have sent the rep another message wich will be the lasta ttempt for me I guess. It is getting to take a liiiiitle to long!

I thought this case was solved 3 weeks ago??!
I think you should concider a PAB Mary..

 

[trade]

your saga...

I wouldn't be surprised to see an apology and a $150 bonus for dragging it out... dragging this out might be exactly what they want! Can't buy this kind of PR and worth a whack of $$ more for the casino! (Call me a cynic... because I am when it comes to some casino's tactics!)

 

[same_old]

I wouldn't be surprised to see an apology and a $150 bonus for dragging it out... dragging this out might be exactly what they want! Can't buy this kind of PR and worth a whack of $$ more for the casino! (Call me a cynic... because I am when it comes to some casino's tactics!)

HUH?- good PR, this is negative towards them and I dont think people will want to sign up after seeing this thread, I see the last post by the rep was on the 13th and still no money in the account- that is shocking to say the least.

Has any of them remotly contacted you since the 13th to say whats happening?.

 

[Marie2473]

HUH?- good PR, this is negative towards them and I dont think people will want to sign up after seeing this thread, I see the last post by the rep was on the 13th and still no money in the account- that is shocking to say the least.

Has any of them remotly contacted you since the 13th to say whats happening?.

YES, I did get a PM from the rep here on the 20th where he/she said that the 50 dollars now should be in my account, available for withdrawl if I wanted to, but it wasnt. I then sent a PM back more or less within 5 minutes and since then - nothing!

 

[eu_lowroller]

YES, I did get a PM from the rep here on the 20th where he/she said that the 50 dollars now should be in my account, available for withdrawl if I wanted to, but it wasnt. I then sent a PM back more or less within 5 minutes and since then - nothing!

Last Activity: 28th November 2009 01:57 AM

Very intersting, but this manner should not be expected from an accredited casino!

 

[Wildfire7]

The most concerning aspect of this case is the fact that it may not be an isolated problem. How many other players are having promises broken like this and been made to wait with no responce. I am talking about players who are not members of casino forums, who most likey simply write it off and think oh well its only 50 chips.

In my commentary on another thread it was noted that 32Red had a similar problem with a player, but handled it very swiftly, they acknowledged the players issue and sorted it out.

Pay the player or give a reason why they cant pay the player, the main issue is the poor communication between casino and player. In this case the player is repeating the same problem on this thread, and the casino seemingly helpless to act upon it.

Mike

 

[Marie2473]

Well, i probably also would have given up a long time ago IF they didnt say in the beginning that they would work something out. it IS just 50 bucks, however now it is more of a principle (spell?) for me =)
So they have been online since the last message as well... hmmmm...

 

[Marie2473]

Got a message today saying that their Casinomeister represantative has been replaced and that the new one ensures me that the problem will be solved.
I will keep u updated!

 

[Roanan]

I guess they care more about the players who are happy, then rectifying the issues from the players who aren't, otherwise why would the rep have made a post here 10 minutes before your last post, but they conveniently skipped this thread.

Not too surprising considering how lousy a reputation all Playtech casinos and poker sites have. This year alone I have closed 3 accounts and have stopped depositing in the few I did keep, due to their lousy customer service or outright crooked shenanigans.

 

[helwhipped]

All this interference sure takes any fun out of your win. And it's almost like somebody else playing with your money! I'm sure they'll make it right. Sometimes good things come to those who have to wait. I had a fedex'd check that had already been deposited in my bank and a sportsbook took it back making it insufficient funds. Anyway, it took forever, at least a month. When they were done doing what they were doing they put the $1200 back in my account there. I started playing with it, I hit 4 deuces on dollars a bunch and then a royal flush. Had it to $6000, but cashed out $5500. I know this doesn't always happen. But being that they didn't even compensate me for waiting and I believe it was over getting their fees for withdraws over $5000 in a month (30-50?) and I could have blown it so easily, I'm thankful somebody up there was taking care of me.

 

[Marie2473]

Well, since the last email that theyve changed their staff - There has been nothing again - not a word. The last person tat emailed me reassured me that this would get solved and still Nothing.
I am actually starting to loose patience and this will probably end with me giving up. it is not even the money - now it has turned into a Whats right is right situation!
Anyways - KLUB8 is sinking in my eyes, thats for sure!

 

[chayton]

Marie, if I could I'd nominate you for sainthood! You're finally losing patience after 3 weeks when most of us would have lost patience after 3 days!

I'm wondering why they changed staff - is it possible that the casino has changed hands? Is there a way to find out?

 

[Marie2473]

Actually, more or less 4 weeks =)
But hey, even saints get enough at one point and I am close - like I said. at this point it is not even about the money... ..

 

[Wildfire7]

With hindsight you might have been better posting a PAB when this happened.
Personally I think I would draw a line under this issue now, and question whether I would want to continue a relationship with them.

It is your call but you probably know exactly your feelings towards Klub8 now.
Yes your right its not the money, its the way it has being dealt with (or not being dealt with)

So in answer to the original thread title, is this a bonus? answer is, No it wasn't a bonus!

Mike

 

[Marie2473]

With hindsight you might have been better posting a PAB when this happened.
Personally I think I would draw a line under this issue now, and question whether I would want to continue a relationship with them.

It is your call but you probably know exactly your feelings towards Klub8 now.
Yes your right its not the money, its the way it has being dealt with (or not being dealt with)

So in answer to the original thread title, is this a bonus? answer is, No it wasn't a bonus!

Mike

Well, I dont think I wanna "waste" my PAB for 50 bucks, Imagine if i get even more %&&/%( over by a casino in the future. I have a memory that u can only have one PAB or something.
Anyways, I will now uninstall KLUB8 and never look back again. Thanks guys for all the input in the tread

 

[eu_lowroller]

I will now uninstall KLUB8 and never look back again.

I've also done this and thank you for this info, because i'll never play in a casino, which treated players like only rogue casinos do!

 

[porto2]

An interesting system of bonuses, I somehow found on this

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

 

[suzecat]

An interesting system of bonuses, I somehow found on this

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

No no no ........ I won't ........ too freakin easy.......

 

[Jasminebed]

Well, I dont think I wanna "waste" my PAB for 50 bucks, Imagine if i get even more %&&/%( over by a casino in the future. I have a memory that u can only have one PAB or something.
Anyways, I will now uninstall KLUB8 and never look back again. Thanks guys for all the input in the tread

Marie, you are limited to your first PAB being against any casino, accredited or otherwise. After you have your initial PAB, you can't file one against an unaccredited casino, but you can still PAB against accredited ones.

Since they have a new rep, I would try contacting them again. If they would like to improve their image here, they would see that the original offer to reissue the chip was complied with. It's not like they did not propose something satisfactory, but Klub8's total lack of follow-through on promises is very disappointing.

 

[Marie2473]

i did recive a PM from the rep here and he once again said he was sorry and told me that my account had been credited with 100 dollars for the delay.
I thought, well, it was supposed to be just 50 so that was nice of them..
Loggen into my account to check and there was....... Nothing! Tadaaaaa!
I have pmed the rep again asking whats wrong.

I will keep an open mind. However I think they do need to look into some things and rutines.
Anyways, Thanks for the info about PAB, still think I will try to solve this with the casino and otherwise, just let it go and keep that for later and "bigger" money!