Is the end of Reverse Withdrawal in the UK nigh?

[shadow123]

All about money as usual, the taxman was making so much out of FOBT,s the damage they were causing
was allowed to happen for years, even at the end they wanted to allow them for another 6 months.
Think you are right about bonus buys,the object of playing most games is to get the bonus, if the base play is
shitty its going to cost far more to achieve a feature than the cost of buying one.The problem starts when
buy cost runs into hundreds or thousands of pounds.

 

[L&L-Jan]

Specifically, review your time indicators to capture play in excess of 1 hour as this is a proxy for potential harm.

Saw it, thanks mate!

So we deployed a system, but after one day we had thousands of alerts. System has been removed and new approach will be applied today

 

[Mr Wild]

Well Coral withdrawals are still able to be reversed.

The net impact of paying out fast or not offering a reversal withdrawal is around 30% for a gambling site, the longer its pending the higher possibility of the withdrawal being cancelled. This of course vary from operator to operator. But that might explain the reason why some dont want to remove it.
You also need to take into account that it increases the deposit amounts as well, which will increase deposit and withdrawal fees for the operator.

 

[shadow123]

Thats one big chunk of money, even more of a reason to stop it,not sour grapes but it really
isnt a very honest way of boosting revenues and is open to all kinds of abuse by the casinos.
Unfortunately the player as always is going to have make up the shortfall with reduced rtps,s
and bonuses but we cant have it both ways having complained about reversals for years

 

[shadow123]

Would be interested to know if any casinos are still allowing reversals, the formal guidence was issued over 2 weeks ago.

 

[Slottery]

Would be interested to know if any casinos are still allowing reversals, the formal guidence was issued over 2 weeks ago.

Hopefully not, would start to be challenging to claim that more time is needed to implement. That's understandable that it's not gone from everywhere within one hour after received email about it, but ower two weeks might already start to be hard to defend.

Would assume most have followed, if not, don't really see that player who now reverse the withdrawal and lose, don't get his deposits back if want to be "win win situation with casino", hopefully gone from everywhere as that's regulators wish.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Had a withdrawal to card the other day from Will Hill and it was instant. It used to stay pending until 10pm and then take a couple of days to hit bank, so this is a positive change there.

 

[shadow123]

Interesting ... I do know of one casino still allowing it, I have reversed and lost today but wont hold it against them,I knew what I was doing.

 

[paul7388]

William Hill and Coral are still reversible for a few hours.

 

[lewisnadasurf]

Great news. Should never have been able to reverse it in the first place

(Small print: without being able to reverse I would have never won my biggest ever slot win haha)

but good news none the less

 

[Mr_Slot5]

William Hill and Coral are still reversible for a few hours.

Really?

I withdrew there the other night to card, woke up and money was in bank account.

 

[shadow123]

I would not hesitate to claim back losses incurred by reversing at Corals.

 

[paul7388]

Really?

I withdrew there the other night to card, woke up and money was in bank account.

They have changed the withdrawal times and it is a pain in the arse. Might depend on payment method as i use Mastercard debit.

Did small withdrawal on Sunday night about half 9 and instead of getting done at 10 like usual it said i could reverse till half 1 in morning or something. So instead of being in Bank Tuesday Morning it went in Today.

Did 2 withdrawals late on Monday night . Did first before 11 but again it no longer got done at 11 and told me i could reverse till about 2am. Did 2nd half an hour later and it said would be reversible till same time as first one. So again instead of me receiving them this morning it will be tomorrow i get them.

Definitely still allowing to reverse tho.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

They have changed the withdrawal times and it is a pain in the arse. Might depend on payment method as i use Mastercard debit.

Did small withdrawal on Sunday night about half 9 and instead of getting done at 10 like usual it said i could reverse till half 1 in morning or something. So instead of being in Bank Tuesday Morning it went in Today.

Did 2 withdrawals late on Monday night . Did first before 11 but again it no longer got done at 11 and told me i could reverse till about 2am. Did 2nd half an hour later and it said would be reversible till same time as first one. So again instead of me receiving them this morning it will be tomorrow i get them.

Definitely still allowing to reverse tho.

Ahhhh ok, yes mine was Visa so guess they have implemented Visa Direct.

 

[Slottery]

Interesting ... I do know of one casino still allowing it, I have reversed and lost today but wont hold it against them,I knew what I was doing.

Thought for sure there are some who are not done with it yet, not sure which would be good enough excuse, not saying it's impossible still to find way out not to refund amount to player but at least it should be.

Don't see this going away with COVID but is there to stay, if lifted, then would be good chance to see which operators are interested to return that function to players and do they happily state it to be ore flexibility for player

 

[Kroffe]

Thought for sure there are some who are not done with it yet, not sure which would be good enough excuse, not saying it's impossible still to find way out not to refund amount to player but at least it should be.

Don't see this going away with COVID but is there to stay, if lifted, then would be good chance to see which operators are interested to return that function to players and do they happily state it to be ore flexibility for player

Want to guess if Swedish players can still reverse?

Like you said, i doubt the reversals are coming back after covid dies down.
Would be interesting to see how much money the casinos are losing from not having reversal there.

 

[shadow123]

Whats the prize for a correct guess? I think yes you can still reverse

 

[shadow123]

I will take it in honey

 

[Slottery]

Want to guess if Swedish players can still reverse?

Like you said, i doubt the reversals are coming back after covid dies down.
Would be interesting to see how much money the casinos are losing from not having reversal there.

It might be surprise for many how loyal many players are on playing their withdrawals back to same place who every time pays them fast

There are some casinos who proceed these fast and been offering lock function quite years already, so it's at least not mission impossible to run casino which is not based on reversed withdrawals.

Personally thinking that really is short term looking, these people who keep reversing majority of their withdrawals usually have some level of gambling problem, it's normal sometimes to change your mind and play more instead, but if 87/100 withdrawals end up to be reversed, it quite strongly suggest there's something wrong. People with severe gambling problem usually get broke quite fast, so you don't get them steady 5 figure deposits every month (not referring to net deposits, but people who also withdraw, can wager quite big amounts in month without losing much or of course ending up winning) from person who gamble everything possible in one session.

edit: Some casinos have bit twisted moral in these, like we remember some reverse your withdrawal bonuses etc... so not questioning that some have their own intention to be slow with these, which is ok if they somehow stay in timeline they advise, if it's known and stated by them that they have some pending periods, then it's known and shouldn't be surprise.

 

[Kroffe]

Whats the prize for a correct guess? I think yes you can still reverse

Correct!
Best i can do is a participation-award.

 

[shadow123]

that will do me

 

[samdog21]

Ojo casino, no more deposit fees on any payment option, also reverse gone, canadians to. I think mr meister had something to do with that. Lmfao

 

[lordblucan]

Bethard and Buzz still had reversals the last time I played which was only a day or two ago.

 

[colinsunderland]

Coral still have reverse option, so presumably all of GVC/LC Int casinos
@Maja Branders Partners casinos still have it, or did a few days ago, presumably its the same for all WHG casinos. Live chat told me it was because they HAVE to offer the option to customers, then when I sent the UKGC page to him showing the opposite, told me my feedback would be taken on board and refused to discuss it any more. @Maja Branders Partners why are your live chat agents lying to customers?

 

[Maja Branders Partners]

Hi @colinsunderland they are not lying. WHG team worked really hard to go live with this ASAP as it is a new requirement from UKGC. We all agree how usefull it is and that even without a requirement it should be available to players. This function should be deployed today.

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi @colinsunderland they are not lying. WHG team worked really hard to go live with this ASAP as it is a new requirement from UKGC. We all agree how usefull it is and that even without a requirement it should be available to players. This function should be deployed today.

oh, ok. So why do you HAVE to offer the reverse option to your players? Other casinos don't, so how is your LCCP different on that point to theirs?
On the upside my withdrawal was processed within 24 hours on a weekend, so thanks for that However the gameplay was awful with many errors

 

[Maja Branders Partners]

oh, ok. So why do you HAVE to offer the reverse option to your players? Other casinos don't, so how is your LCCP different on that point to theirs?
On the upside my withdrawal was processed within 24 hours on a weekend, so thanks for that However the gameplay was awful with many errors

I'm not sure what the CS agent wanted to say, but if I have to guess he or she wanted to say that we HAVE to have the oposit of that.

 

[colinsunderland]

I'm not sure what the CS agent wanted to say, but if I have to guess he or she wanted to say that we HAVE to have the oposit of that.

No he was pretty clear in that you have to allow players to reverse.

I have just played at one of your brands and didn't get any game errors so thats good thanks for replying

 

[Maja Branders Partners]

No he was pretty clear in that you have to allow players to reverse.

View attachment 133335

I have just played at one of your brands and didn't get any game errors so thats good thanks for replying

He made a mistake, it happens. I've forwarded this chat to relevant people.
I'm glad you had an error free gameplay.

 

[paul7388]

Just thought i would add PP to the places where withdrawals are still reversible.

 

[Maja Branders Partners]

Just thought i would add PP to the places where withdrawals are still reversible.

We deployed the option yesterday but it wasn't working properly.
It will be live on Monday.

 

[cncas2123]

Are sports betting sites covered by the same regulations? I know that Boylesports are still making withdrawals reversible 24 hours after the withdraw was requested, so are there exceptions to the UKGC regulations?

 

[pinnit2014]

Are sports betting sites covered by the same regulations? I know that Boylesports are still making withdrawals reversible 24 hours after the withdraw was requested, so are there exceptions to the UKGC regulations?

Can't imagine so - they're probably just chancing their arm until approached and then come away with it being a massive IT project to do so

 

[paul7388]

Are sports betting sites covered by the same regulations? I know that Boylesports are still making withdrawals reversible 24 hours after the withdraw was requested, so are there exceptions to the UKGC regulations?

Think all sports sites are still allowing reversals,

I know Coral and WH still are.

 

[EkJR]

.

Hopefully not, would start to be challenging to claim that more time is needed to implement. That's understandable that it's not gone from everywhere within one hour after received email about it, but ower two weeks might already start to be hard to defend.

Would assume most have followed, if not, don't really see that player who now reverse the withdrawal and lose, don't get his deposits back if want to be "win win situation with casino", hopefully gone from everywhere as that's regulators wish.

I have found a test case.....watch this space(only a small amount) but the player was prompted to "Cancel Withdrawal" when they clicked on a deposit button on a site. Once I have gone through the process I'll reveal all. Note, it's a casino games only site so not related to any of the big sports brands.

 

[colinsunderland]

Coral do that too, presumably all GVC sites do the same

 

[Playford7]

.

I have found a test case.....watch this space(only a small amount) but the player was prompted to "Cancel Withdrawal" when they clicked on a deposit button on a site. Once I have gone through the process I'll reveal all. Note, it's a casino games only site so not related to any of the big sports brands.

Any follow up?

 

[EkJR]

Any follow up?

Will post here once its complete.

 

[Playford7]

Will post here once its complete.

Good stuff.
Years back used to get this nonsense also at many casinos, now the cross hairs are on them they are all of a sudden places of morals and decency. Haha it’s vomit worthy.

 

[EkJR]

Here we go. As promised.

Casino - Mr Q

Date of incident, Friday 19th June. Player deposited funds and made withdrawal. Went to deposit further funds into the account and were met with a pop up saying "You have a pending withdrawal, would you like to reverse this". Said player reversed and went onto lose and deposit further funds to lose as well.

Player was advised to email Mr Q at the weekend quoting the new rules for the Covid-19 period.

Mr Q replied this morning saying the following. "We are well aware of the new UKGC guidance and are working to implement the change".

So, Mr Q are actively encouraging reversing of withdrawals, not just having it as an option. It appears automatically when clicking on 'deposit'. Also it was noticed that when reversing this does not count towards deposit limits for the period. So the player was then able to not only reverse but also deposit up to their limit. Even a minor change like removing that auto pop up would have likely been enough, but nope. They will be reported to the UKGC as there is the active encouragement part in there that makes it that bit more sinister.

 

[pinnit2014]

Seemingly Redbet are still struggling with the arduous task of removing a functionality that they created.

 

[samdog21]

Here we go. As promised.

Casino - Mr Q

Date of incident, Friday 19th June. Player deposited funds and made withdrawal. Went to deposit further funds into the account and were met with a pop up saying "You have a pending withdrawal, would you like to reverse this". Said player reversed and went onto lose and deposit further funds to lose as well.

Player was advised to email Mr Q at the weekend quoting the new rules for the Covid-19 period.

Mr Q replied this morning saying the following. "We are well aware of the new UKGC guidance and are working to implement the change".

So, Mr Q are actively encouraging reversing of withdrawals, not just having it as an option. It appears automatically when clicking on 'deposit'. Also it was noticed that when reversing this does not count towards deposit limits for the period. So the player was then able to not only reverse but also deposit up to their limit. Even a minor change like removing that auto pop up would have likely been enough, but nope. They will be reported to the UKGC as there is the active encouragement part in there that makes it that bit more sinister.

I bet I can guess who that is OJO, they told me only apply in uk,so I told them oh so you will keep ripping every body else of.i have said it before its preditory.

 

[EkJR]

Seemingly Redbet are still struggling with the arduous task of removing a functionality that they created.

View attachment 135278

It's absolutely embarrassing.

Mr Q commenrs on it below "This may seem like a small task but it is a priority and has been since the announcement" Absolute and utter nonsense. All they have to do is grey it out. It's really shocking that some casinos are taking the absolute piss.

 

[EkJR]

I bet I can guess who that is OJO, they told me only apply in uk,so I told them oh so you will keep ripping every body else of.i have said it before its preditory.

Mr Q casino they are called. Smaller operation, but blatantly hiding behind some "massive changes" rhetoric, yet still continuing to actually advertise cancelling withdrawals.

 

[thr0b]

Ladbrokes are FINALLY introducing it on 25th July. Christ knows why an operation that big has taken a month.

To their credit, they’re going a bit further with the responsible gaming by introducing a curfew feature as well. Seems a good idea.

 

[colinsunderland]

am i missing something, how is the deposit curfew related to cancelling withdrawals?
If it is, then 25th July is closer to 3 months.

 

[mack341]

I just had this message in my account:

Due to a change in UK gambling regulations, we’ll be removing the option of reversing withdrawals on 25th June 2020.

We’d also like to remind you of the importance of setting deposit limits and to introduce you to a brand-new feature we’ve just launched: deposit curfew

It allows you to stop yourself from making deposits at certain times, like late at night or on Fridays, for example.

-----
have they cocked this up again?

 

[brianmon]

I love how most of the casinos are spinning this like they're being responsible by voluntarily removing the cash cow reverse facility. No mention that they've been told to do iso by the UKGC.
Like this email, I received recently...

"We’re writing to let you know that we’ve removed the “reverse” option for withdrawals as part of our continued commitment to responsible gambling. This means that once you have requested a withdrawal, you will no longer be able to change your mind and cancel it."

It's strange how when it's in the player's interest, it's the casino's idea.
But when it's in the casino's interest, and not the player's, it's down to UKGC regulations,

Edit: Obviously that doesn't go for Ladbrooks, after seeing the above post, lol

 

[EkJR]

Can't imagine so - they're probably just chancing their arm until approached and then come away with it being a massive IT project to do so

Exactly this, that's all I'm hearing. "OH we need a new interface, total site revamp". I'm a consultant in a technical sector and immediately know this is a lot of piss. It's a simple change. Just a small coding change to remove it. Its embarrassing.

 

[EkJR]

The biggest culprits here are the UKGC. Put out guidance for Covid-19 but do not put a time limit on the change. Wtf is that all about? It's now looking like some may not have to apply it at all. A shambles again and I have written to them about it this morning asking for their comments. Companies like Mr Q, a small operation, can hide behind the "big IT change" simply because the UKGC haven't been clear. Unethical yes, unsurprising no.