ID Requests

[richie]

When it comes to withdrawals in some casinos I think asking somebody to send sensitive documents by unsecure email is unacceptable. There has to be a better way to verify a persons identity than this.

Could the industry not come together & create a more sensible system. Like a virtual ID card, a player gets & can use everywhere so there's never any question who that person is. If you don't have a driver's license or passport how are you supposed to prove you are who you say you are. And me personally, there's no way I'm sending my passport via email to a person I don't know. If someone gets hold of that sensitive information I am the one who is liable for any misuse of it. It just isn't worth it & seems unreasonable to ask a player to do this.

Just my thoughts. I know some casinos don't ask a player to send these kind of documents & kudos to them for having a much better player friendly security system.

Just my thoughts, but I've read on this forum stories of casinos expecting players to send clear copies of driver's licenses & passports & I think that is a terrible thing to expect a player to do before they get their money & risky.

 

[skiny]

And then the casino says - "You expect me to believe you're not the same person who's already taken this bonus 5 times just because you said so?"

Or "How do I know this credit card really belongs to you?"

Or "How do I know you really live in Canada?"

Some casinos do take it way too far though and some casinos just use it as an excuse not to pay you.

It would be nice and easy if the all companies licensing software to the casinos had standards for security procedures, basic terms and conditions and service.

A third party mediator would be nice for security disputes and service issues too.

Now you're idea of standard online identification is interesting although not new. It would require a company capable of correctly identifying people and storing sensitive information from all over the world. Possibly a redirect page back to that company's secure website for identification of the user. A willingness for online companies to trust and use it. And in the event of suspected fraud there would be no law that says any company has to take this verification process as correct. Which basically puts you back at square one.

It is a good idea though. It would speed the process up for identifying people online and be more secure than sending copies of your identification all over the world providing of course that their database was secure.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It has been standard practice, yet none of the regulatory authorities seem to have a problem with the current system where copies have to be sent via email. Even the UK Gambling Commission has been happy to accept this, even if UK players are instead verified electronically. It is also the governments job to know how an industry they have catered for in law, and set up a regulatory body for, operates with regard to verifying the identity of players. Their silence on the matter can be seen as an acceptance of current procedures.

Operators have already been presented with opportunities to have a centralised system, and it is the insistence that operators use their own systems that has ensured no such system has made inroads.

P.V created such a system, but whenever he approached operators, they were not interested. There was an indication that they would be interested if enough players signed up, but how on earth did they expect players to sign up for a system that they couldn't use anywhere, yet required yet another set of their documents be submitted to the internet. Only recently did P.V get a boost when Nevada showed quite an interest in his company when it came to upcoming US regulation of online gambling and ensuring players' ID was verified in a secure manner. Hopefully, this might trigger the rest of the industry to follow suit, even if only to show that they are worthy of being granted a US license.

For players, there is little choice as the subject usually comes up when the casino has hold of their money, so it is a matter of send your documents via email, or walk away from your money.

 

[skiny]

And again, even if such a company did exist and you had an account with verified identification, you would still have to play at casinos that are willing to accept this electronic ID as true even in the event of a dispute.

If an online casino can simply say "We don't care if you have electronic ID, we want to see your hard copies." after a deposit is made and fraud is suspected the entire process becomes useless. The problem being that any law regarding the acceptance of this electronic ID would have to be world wide since the casinos and the players are both spread all over the planet.

 

[P.V.]

When it comes to withdrawals in some casinos I think asking somebody to send sensitive documents by unsecure email is unacceptable. There has to be a better way to verify a persons identity than this.

Could the industry not come together & create a more sensible system. Like a virtual ID card, a player gets & can use everywhere so there's never any question who that person is. If you don't have a driver's license or passport how are you supposed to prove you are who you say you are. And me personally, there's no way I'm sending my passport via email to a person I don't know. If someone gets hold of that sensitive information I am the one who is liable for any misuse of it. It just isn't worth it & seems unreasonable to ask a player to do this.

Just my thoughts. I know some casinos don't ask a player to send these kind of documents & kudos to them for having a much better player friendly security system.

Just my thoughts, but I've read on this forum stories of casinos expecting players to send clear copies of driver's licenses & passports & I think that is a terrible thing to expect a player to do before they get their money & risky.

I too agree that email, fax and mail is unsatisfactory when requesting and sharing personal information. Some operators are adding their own upload systems but they're too becoming unsuccessful as their email doc. procedures. Once uploaded they go into this black hole as I like to call it, or floating in cyber space like the emails do.

I was reading a 50 page thread on a popular poker forum where the players ask daily if the site received their uploaded files, what a waste of time for the player and the operator to respond.

There are better systems as VWM pointed out but Richie each operator will always need to do their own investigations and due diligence and therefore a "one ID card fits all" won't work. A better way of sharing requested ID and other information back and forth does work with a centralized secure encrypted system.

It's a logical theory even when applied outside of the IGaming industry. If you need to send personal information over the net to several people would you prefer to send multiple emails, upload to multiple servers/sites or have one source for the sharing process? I would prefer one source personally, limit my online exposure.

There are some interesting things being done within the verification industry. One company is doing an online ID card that links to your bank account. If they can ID you and link your account to you they issue you an online identity. Cool concept but not enough for total KYC verification.

Another company has an onscreen camera that takes a pic of your DL, or passport and verifies if it's a valid ID. Cool concept again but still not enough for total KYC verification.

It takes a collaboration of many things to prove your identity online. To the ones not asking for ID, I'm pretty sure they're not doing the best they can to ensure full KYC compliance.

The more I study this stuff there will always be a need for hard ID, passport, utility bills for proof of address and so on. I've recently become a proponent of notarized doc's if requested and even an ID video. An ID video of a player logged into his/her account and the video showing their image too while gambling online. This can be done easily with a cell phone, takes a couple mins.. The video can be matched to their ID picture.

Maybe in the near future IGaming sites will loosen up and start allowing player's to send their documents in a manner they feel safe. But again I don't think there will ever be a vitural ID card as you've suggested.

 

[DemonUK]

Talking of id requirements a search of my credit file was done by Redbet AND is recorded on there. Because of this i haven'nt been back and i wasn't notified either.

 

[Tirilej]

Talking of id requirements a search of my credit file was done by Redbet AND is recorded on there. Because of this i haven'nt been back and i wasn't notified either.

Isn't that the same verifying that 32Red does, and other casinos were people think they don't need to verify themself?
What I understand they can only see that it's the correct person but never any status on their accounts.

 

[P.V.]

Isn't that the same verifying that 32Red does, and other casinos were people think they don't need to verify themself?
What I understand they can only see that it's the correct person but never any status on their accounts.

.

Only checking the information entered during registration.

 

[Tirilej]

.

Only checking the information entered during registration.

Was that a question or what did it mean?

What I ment was that the casinos are verifying people the way as DemonUK said that Redbet had done with his account.
What they are not doing are seing if he has a credit of a million or so on his card

 

[richie]

I see, it isn't so simple. Can see the idea of a centralized database is not very practical.

Not an easy topic to find a solution for.

Does make me wonder a bit if ID checks aren't a bit of a stalling technique for paying though. Cause if you buy something off for example Amazon you are not required to send in documents before you get your goods.

I think maybe the safest way to go about it is to use an e-wallet. When I opened my Neteller account I was required to pass ID verification. I know that because of this some sensible casinos don't require you to verify ID if you use an e-wallet. Otherwise it is like taking another gamble sending in copies of your sensitive docs by email in the hope they don't fall into the wrong hands & get misused.

 

[P.V.]

Was that a question or what did it mean?

What I ment was that the casinos are verifying people the way as DemonUK said that Redbet had done with his account.

Sorry, what it means is that there is no way to do a full KYC verification by simply registering with a casino and no further requests from the operator.
If that's the procedure it's an open door to fraud, minors etc..

 

[Tirilej]

Well, I have no idea really. I also think it sounds strange, but I do know that I have read it somewhere.
When I signed up at Jackpot party the only thing they needed to verify me was my passportnr. I could have been anyone else there too. No ID, no documents, nothing.

 

[dionysus]

Is it like a Canadian thing, because the majority of casinos i play and withdraw at, havent ever even asked me for id

 

[P.V.]

Is it like a Canadian thing, because the majority of casinos i play and withdraw at, havent ever even asked me for id

I think that it's more of a regulatory thing, not Canada.

Some licensed authorities are more stringent than others therefore creating an unbalanced visual within the verification procedures.

 

[manstaff]

The future should be that all casinos do it like 888. For those that haven't played at 888 you simply upload your documents to them via their cashier section. No need to send via email and its quicker/easier than attaching documents to an email. I wish all casinos would have that capability.

Also, isn't it redundant for casinos to ask you for these documents if you are using an ewallet? For example, it was harder for me to get a neteller account back when we were allowed to have them, than it was for me to get a fax form authorized at a casino. If you have a MB, NT, EC, UMW....et al then you have already went through a pretty stringent security test. It seems silly that they accept payments from these ewallets but don't trust them to have done their verification checks. Which they all do.

 

[P.V.]

The future should be that all casinos do it like 888. For those that haven't played at 888 you simply upload your documents to them via their cashier section. No need to send via email and its quicker/easier than attaching documents to an email. I wish all casinos would have that capability.
Also, isn't it redundant for casinos to ask you for these documents if you are using an ewallet? For example, it was harder for me to get a neteller account back when we were allowed to have them, than it was for me to get a fax form authorized at a casino. If you have a MB, NT, EC, UMW....et al then you have already went through a pretty stringent security test. It seems silly that they accept payments from these ewallets but don't trust them to have done their verification checks. Which they all do.

The future, exactly. I'll go a step further into the future to where you can do it from one place to multiple IGaming sites.

Warp speed ahead..

 

[vinylweatherman]

Talking of id requirements a search of my credit file was done by Redbet AND is recorded on there. Because of this i haven'nt been back and i wasn't notified either.

This should be an ID check search, and only YOU should be able to see it when checking your own file. It should NOT show up as a "credit check" when another company checks your file. Not explaining the procedure creates the impression that the casino has knocked back your credit score by making this check. If they have done it properly, it shouldn't as it doesn't show to other companies.

It is how UK players often don't have to send documents to casinos that focus on the UK market. It's weakness is that without some kind of independent check, it is hard to determine whether it is you playing, or someone who has a deep knowledge of your personal details and has managed to fool the banks too. Posting something to the address registered on the electoral roll should be used as an additional check.

 

[Realitybitez]

I've always been wary of sending out such sensitive documents...

However have found that ALL the casinos that I wish to make cash outs from demand them so if Im wanting my $, there's not really much one can do about it However I always check out the casino first via this forum or google to make sure its not rogue, because I would hate to send some dodgy casino my id stuff and next second, they're dipping into my bank Scarey....