I would like to file lawsuit against PLAYNGO

[solace1]

Title pretty much explains my intentions.

Play n Go software provider is using false advertising and deceptive marketing.
Many of there games claim that i can win 5000x my bet.

Either there are magical spins that are outside the standard paylines, or this simply is not true.

I have reviewed many of there games, and it is not possible to get a 5000x on many of the ones they claim can do this. Some yes, like BOD for instance, but most of them it is not possible(yet they still claim a 5000x on the payout page).

I calculate the total payout for a line, using the highest symbol, times the amount of lines available, including multipliers if appropriate.

Lets take for instance, Rise of Olympus, which i have played over 80k spins on.

The highest payline is 5 wilds, which pays a 50x bet. Now in free spins you can get a 20x multiplier. Which would work out to a 1000x win. It is impossible for you to get 5 wild lines in a spin, let alone one during the free spins.

Am i missing something?

Besides the chances of actually hitting a 5000x are like 1 in a billion or more, and this information is not stated in the games write up.

This is deceptive marketing, and infuriates me.

 

[slot_zombie]

You are spot on, there is zero possibility of 5000x on Moon Princess or its clone, Rise Of Olympus.

I assume the 5000x claim would apply to the entirety of a bonus round rather than just one spin, but you would be lucky to get 1500x overall with those pre-scripted and capped bonus spins.

I have played these to death on factory RTP and have had to ban them from my playlist, so fast and brutal. In all the months of play, I had one wild line - in the base game.

 

[dunover]

The 5000x applied to the maximum bonus round pay - usually. That's cumulative wins.

 

[dionysus]

I gather it's possible..just highly, highly improbable; like the universe has lined up to make each free spin the perfect spin
maybe not deceptive per se - just very unrealisitc
i cant see a court win if it is theoretically possible

 

[xexe]

Title pretty much explains my intentions.

Play n Go software provider is using false advertising and deceptive marketing.
Many of there games claim that i can win 5000x my bet.

Either there are magical spins that are outside the standard paylines, or this simply is not true.

I have reviewed many of there games, and it is not possible to get a 5000x on many of the ones they claim can do this. Some yes, like BOD for instance, but most of them it is not possible(yet they still claim a 5000x on the payout page).

I calculate the total payout for a line, using the highest symbol, times the amount of lines available, including multipliers if appropriate.

Lets take for instance, Rise of Olympus, which i have played over 80k spins on.

The highest payline is 5 wilds, which pays a 50x bet. Now in free spins you can get a 20x multiplier. Which would work out to a 1000x win. It is impossible for you to get 5 wild lines in a spin, let alone one during the free spins.

Am i missing something?

Besides the chances of actually hitting a 5000x are like 1 in a billion or more, and this information is not stated in the games write up.

This is deceptive marketing, and infuriates me.

It includes bonus rounds. There are recorded wins of over 5000x in BoD. Probably not reachable in Rise of Olympus or Moon Princess though. They both have over a million spins combined on Slot Tracker, without one single win even over 1000x...

 

[sueyh]

I believe what PNG is saying is they cap the max win to 5K x bet size.
If you search Viking Runcraft win video on Youtube, you will see someone won more than 5k X betsize during free spins, but it only paid 5K x bet size.

As you said one in 10 billions it is possible somebody might get 5K x bet size win on Moon pribcess or it's clone, so it's not really false advertisement, but you can report them to the licence body if you believe they should not mention 5K x bet size win on some games, but a lawsuit? I don't think there is any chance you will win.

 

[EkJR]

Rise of Olympus is a horrendous creation. A thief of a game. It can literally go thousands of spins without the free drop bonus and then when you do get it it only has to give one win and no rettriger. Absolutely detest the game.

 

[EkJR]

Also reckon you would need to clear the board 20 times and get numerous mega wins to come close to 5000X. Never going to happen. Highest I have seen anywhere is about 1600X

 

[SlotGrinder]

What about pragmatic ? Win up to 180000x on Peking Luck . Anyone managed that yet ?

 

[Playford7]

What about pragmatic ? Win up to 180000x on Peking Luck . Anyone managed that yet ?

Probably every streamer ever

 

[09237653]

I would assume these games can all pay 5000x/3000x there is one magic rng result on the paytable that will reach the stated amount its just ultra rare on some slots.

Bod (5000x) = full explorers, confirmed.
Viking runecraft (5000x) = 15 hammers with x5 multi, confirmed.
Gemix (3000x) = 15 stars supercharged, confirmed.
Reactoonz (3000x) = pinks x2 twice, not confirmed but likely this is it.

I take more issue with thunderkick claims

Falcon huntress = 10050x (now removed from splash screen)
Carnival queen = 22700x

 

[judgenico]

ive mentioned on previous threads this really does wind me up,providers claiming big potential in there slots when the reality is different id love to see the evidence from when these games go through testing that these sort of wins are possible i mean is this a loophole in the testing procedures that developers are exploiting?

 

[goatwack]

The law is an ass and likely deems these odds as 'legal', even if completely improbable

But then where would the industry be without such fantastical claims eh

 

[Biti]

The 5000x applied to the maximum bonus round pay - usually. That's cumulative wins.

This.

500x stake per bonus spins, is also max 5.000x stake in 10 bonus spins.

Misleading? Yes, but that seems to be a bit the nature of this industry.

 

[solace1]

Thanks for the replies comrades.

I did wonder if it was 5000x over the basis of free spins, cumulative wins.

Still extremely misleading. Hopefully the rise of population and popularity will bring greater regulation to the industry. I mean PNG is got to be one of the top 3 producers right? im pretty sure they are listed on the stock exchange for many years now.

I realize online gambling is shrouded in a cloak of deceit, and i basically just accept it, and play for the enjoyment only. (the jammin jars thread i read through last night was quite interesting).

btw-slots are all predetermined outcome once you hit spin. Thats how 95% of them work. You are only seeing a generated image of the results...the win amount/spin result is pulled from a random server pool the moment you hit spin, and that will be the result shown.

Would be nice to see a provider provided fulll transparency. There is no reason why they cannot release the total rng results for a game, and there probable outcomes for each bet win x.

Having alot more luck with red tiger lately since i stopped playing PNG, however i doubt they are any different within regards to the misleading claims.

 

[ternur]

The law is an ass and likely deems these odds as 'legal', even if completely improbable

But then where would the industry be without such fantastical claims eh

OT here, but I agree. And don't even start to talk about lawyers. Self-appointed masters of disillusion

 

[09237653]

Theory: that 5000x on Moon princess may well be hidden behind storm but no one picks storm so we never see it

We had a sit and go weekend few months back on moon princess and the biggest win posted was on the storm bonus with only one retrigger (8 spins) and it was over 1000x.

 

[slot_zombie]

Afaik @dunover has contacts at Play & Go so maybe the question could be asked sometime?

 

[slot_zombie]

Thanks for the replies comrades.

I did wonder if it was 5000x over the basis of free spins, cumulative wins.

Still extremely misleading. Hopefully the rise of population and popularity will bring greater regulation to the industry. I mean PNG is got to be one of the top 3 producers right? im pretty sure they are listed on the stock exchange for many years now.

I realize online gambling is shrouded in a cloak of deceit, and i basically just accept it, and play for the enjoyment only. (the jammin jars thread i read through last night was quite interesting).

btw-slots are all predetermined outcome once you hit spin. Thats how 95% of them work. You are only seeing a generated image of the results...the win amount/spin result is pulled from a random server pool the moment you hit spin, and that will be the result shown.

Would be nice to see a provider provided fulll transparency. There is no reason why they cannot release the total rng results for a game, and there probable outcomes for each bet win x.

Having alot more luck with red tiger lately since i stopped playing PNG, however i doubt they are any different within regards to the misleading claims.

Thing is, due to the limited, capped nature of those two grid games, it leaves us scratching our heads as to how 5000x could possibly be achieved within that structure. If it was unlimited retriggers then yes, but max 20 spins, many on a low multiplier and about half just filler with no wins... every time.. can't see it at all.

Whereas Jammin' Jars we also know is 100% scripted but we can see exactly how it pumps out its monster wins.

 

[xexe]

Theory: that 5000x on Moon princess may well be hidden behind storm but no one picks storm so we never see it

We had a sit and go weekend few months back on moon princess and the biggest win posted was on the storm bonus with only one retrigger (8 spins) and it was over 1000x.

Is there even any evidence that it makes a difference depending on which one you picks? I feel like they still just seek out the amount of the win that you've been assigned, and it doesn't say anything in the descriptions about the RTPs differing depending on pick.

I played Red Dragon's Chinese Treasure and got 79 spins total, after many scatter re-triggers. But while I was still in the bonus rounds with like 40 rounds left, I saw on the left on my Casumo balance that I had already gotten the win, which was about €550. But my win so far in the game was only €200 and my in-game balance did not show the win yet. And when you trigger scatters in Chinese Treasure, it gives you 3 choices. But it doesn't matter which one I pick, even though it shows you what you "missed out on" in the other choices. My win was already pre-determined.

This is what it feels like on Moon Princess too. No matter which one I pick, I seem to get about the same variance of wins over time. So I just pick the first 1, because the storm one's animations take forever.

 

[Sonict]

Red Tiger slots do not have a "Bonus Recovery" system for the slots so basically if you got a bonus and then had to reload the slot while in a bonus, it won't bother to play it out. While it looks like the bonus is predetermined, it is not. All it did when you got the bonus was to grab bunch of RNG numbers all at once and if in one of those spins was a retrigger, it grabbed even more. Since there is no recovery system once you are in a bonus, it has to get all of the spins in advance. Merkur slots are the same if you get disconnected during the bonus.

 

[xexe]

Red Tiger slots do not have a "Bonus Recovery" system for the slots so basically if you got a bonus and then had to reload the slot while in a bonus, it won't bother to play it out. While it looks like the bonus is predetermined, it is not. All it did when you got the bonus was to grab bunch of RNG numbers all at once and if in one of those spins was a retrigger, it grabbed even more. Since there is no recovery system once you are in a bonus, it has to get all of the spins in advance. Merkur slots are the same if you get disconnected during the bonus.

I didn't reload it. My point was that the retriggers give you 3 choices. When you pick one, it gives you X amount of spins, and shows you the Y and Z amount of spins that you missed out on. But in reality, the amount you've won has already been decided. Your choices make no difference.

 

[Sonict]

You are correct in this case that it doesn't make a difference, but the thing is that each actual free spin in the bonus is randomly determined which has been confirmed when @DreamRJ had an issue on BTG - Holy Diver in the bonus and they gave him an amount. When he went back to play it, it loaded up the bonus that should have been played out and when it did... The end result was different.

Most slots when it comes to picking bonuses like when you get extra spins, multipliers, and credits are predetermined, but the actual spin is not. It is very similar to a basegame spin. @trancemonkey has said that it is a lot harder to make a slot just give a total "x per bet" and make it somehow get there and few slots work like this.

 

[Lemon]

What about pragmatic ? Win up to 180000x on Peking Luck . Anyone managed that yet ?

They probably did a simulation of 999 trillion spins and that was the highest win, so put that on the front. Might as well say the slot can cure cancer as well. I actually find it offputting, seeing all these massive potential win amounts on the splashscreens. How much RTP% is going towards that? If I don't factor these big values in, am I going to get a good game?

 

[trancemonkey]

btw-slots are all predetermined outcome once you hit spin. Thats how 95% of them work. You are only seeing a generated image of the results...the win amount/spin result is pulled from a random server pool the moment you hit spin, and that will be the result shown.

Would be nice to see a provider provided fulll transparency. There is no reason why they cannot release the total rng results for a game, and there probable outcomes for each bet win x..

No slots aren't a predetermined outcome, and no there isn't a pool of win values (i.e 4x) which the server asks for and then finds a way to display. Apart from the fact this would be a very time intensive process for the code to execute on, there is no reason for this to be done. It doesnt mean some smaller companies might do it, and we know Jammin Jars (and some of the complex games like JJ) do have each round predetermined and then just pick from the multitude of options, but these are rare.

Just out of interest, where do you get your inference that "95% of slots work this way"... interested to know where you get this info from

And there is a very good reason why providers won't tell you the exact maths... because the maths of a game is an extremely valuable IP. It is the only part of a successful game that is worth knowing, and competitors would be able to perfectly recreate a game if they had that info. It is NOT about being deceitful.

 

[bebo67]

Title pretty much explains my intentions.

Play n Go software provider is using false advertising and deceptive marketing.
Many of there games claim that i can win 5000x my bet.

Either there are magical spins that are outside the standard paylines, or this simply is not true.

I have reviewed many of there games, and it is not possible to get a 5000x on many of the ones they claim can do this. Some yes, like BOD for instance, but most of them it is not possible(yet they still claim a 5000x on the payout page).

I calculate the total payout for a line, using the highest symbol, times the amount of lines available, including multipliers if appropriate.

Lets take for instance, Rise of Olympus, which i have played over 80k spins on.

The highest payline is 5 wilds, which pays a 50x bet. Now in free spins you can get a 20x multiplier. Which would work out to a 1000x win. It is impossible for you to get 5 wild lines in a spin, let alone one during the free spins.

Am i missing something?

Besides the chances of actually hitting a 5000x are like 1 in a billion or more, and this information is not stated in the games write up.

This is deceptive marketing, and infuriates me.

I won 5000 times on Gemix, so it can be done

 

[CasinoNinja]

I won 5000 times on Gemix, so it can be done

Gemix states 3000x max, you sure it was 5000x? I won 3000x once on Gemix too and 1000x several times.

 

[bebo67]

Gemix states 3000x max, you sure it was 5000x? I won 3000x once on Gemix too and 1000x several times.

I stand corrected
Invalid URL

 

[CasinoNinja]

I stand corrected
Invalid URL

And that is a 676.5x win

 

[bebo67]

And that is a 676.5x win

Ok. I will just shut up, and go sit in my corner now

 

[xexe]

No slots aren't a predetermined outcome, and no there isn't a pool of win values (i.e 4x) which the server asks for and then finds a way to display. Apart from the fact this would be a very time intensive process for the code to execute on, there is no reason for this to be done. It doesnt mean some smaller companies might do it, and we know Jammin Jars (and some of the complex games like JJ) do have each round predetermined and then just pick from the multitude of options, but these are rare.

Just out of interest, where do you get your inference that "95% of slots work this way"... interested to know where you get this info from

And there is a very good reason why providers won't tell you the exact maths... because the maths of a game is an extremely valuable IP. It is the only part of a successful game that is worth knowing, and competitors would be able to perfectly recreate a game if they had that info. It is NOT about being deceitful.

I find this hard to believe, if this was true then they could go on eternally and they wouldn't give you extremely specific max wins. Almost all games today have re-triggers.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I'm still a fledgling but do we all believe the hype? Really? Each game has its personality and so do the providers. The top pay outs are mathematically possible otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to advertise it and the industry is unique in that it has to be seen to be possible but the trick is to take everyone's money whilst looking like you care. A good thread for validation on games though....been rinsed on Rise and Moon and some yggdrasil yet netent seems to be a bit more stable for me in terms of wagering. How about some kind of game rating system based on community experience and industry info like the monthly Casumo list?

 

[trancemonkey]

I find this hard to believe, if this was true then they could go on eternally and they wouldn't give you extremely specific max wins. Almost all games today have re-triggers.

In theory, yes they could go on eternally, but with simpler games it is possible to calculate maximum possible win, and with more complex games we run billions of spins (around 4 or 5 billion, some manufacturers may run more or less, but it will be a large number) and we get what we call the maximum liability...I.e what is the maximum win the game is likely to pay out in its life time. This does NOT mean that a bigger win is impossible, it just means it is extremely unlikely.

And yes, I do know of a game where we told the operators the maximum payout, and after about 18 months of operation, someone had a win higher than the number we gave them.

 

[trancemonkey]

I'm still a fledgling but do we all believe the hype? Really? Each game has its personality and so do the providers. The top pay outs are mathematically possible otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to advertise it and the industry is unique in that it has to be seen to be possible but the trick is to take everyone's money whilst looking like you care. A good thread for validation on games though....been rinsed on Rise and Moon and some yggdrasil yet netent seems to be a bit more stable for me in terms of wagering. How about some kind of game rating system based community experience and industry info like the monthly Casumo list?

SlotTracker has games rated for volatility and gives a lot of information about game play statistics

 

[Playford7]

Thanks for the replies comrades.

I did wonder if it was 5000x over the basis of free spins, cumulative wins.

Still extremely misleading. Hopefully the rise of population and popularity will bring greater regulation to the industry. I mean PNG is got to be one of the top 3 producers right? im pretty sure they are listed on the stock exchange for many years now.

I realize online gambling is shrouded in a cloak of deceit, and i basically just accept it, and play for the enjoyment only. (the jammin jars thread i read through last night was quite interesting).

btw-slots are all predetermined outcome once you hit spin. Thats how 95% of them work. You are only seeing a generated image of the results...the win amount/spin result is pulled from a random server pool the moment you hit spin, and that will be the result shown.

Would be nice to see a provider provided fulll transparency. There is no reason why they cannot release the total rng results for a game, and there probable outcomes for each bet win x.

Having alot more luck with red tiger lately since i stopped playing PNG, however i doubt they are any different within regards to the misleading claims.

Please no mention of ‘comrades’ that sends shivers down my spine.

 

[goatwack]

 

[Playford7]

Haha!.. only you!.. only you!..

 

[slotter999]

@solace1 There was a case in 2017 where a woman tried to sue Crown Casino / Aristocat in Australia for deceptive design which she did not win.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Worth a read.

 

[dionysus]

Please no mention of ‘comrades’ that sends shivers down my spine.

lol, it's probably the most correct English word to use in the forum

 

[chuchu59]

In the past year or so I have been playing a lot of PNG games mainly because most other software are not available for my jurisdiction. The best hit I got was onRise of Olympics with 50ak characters on several lines at 20x multiplier yet the total bonus round only yielded around 930x. I think possibly Raging Rex could yield around 2000x or so with 2x and 3x multipliers all over the place but up till now my best outcome in the bonus round is 600x.

 

[Sasukdcf]

You don’t need to go as far as a law suit

I had a sort of similar issue on spinal tap and although it took a while I made enough noise in the right places and got a 5k payout to shut up and go away !!!!!

 

[Harry_BKK]

OK, I had a look at the game sheets for the "cold hard numbers" on the chances of hitting the 5,000x bet wins

Moon Princess: Less than 1:160,000,000
Rise of Olympus: Less than 6.25e-9 or 1:6,250,000,000
Viking Runecraft: Less than 7.50113E-08 or 1:750,113,000
Book of Dead: Less than 3.74632E-07 or 1:37,463,200

Some with less than 5,000x potential:

Reactoonz (max win is 4,570.30x): Less than 3.19076E-11 or 1:319,076,000,000
Gemix (max win is 4,513.50x): Less than 9.96139E-10 or 1:99,613,900,000 (99 fricking billion )

Good luck!

P.S. Except for BoD, you have a better chance of winning the lottery I think it is safe to say that all of the above are good for wins between 500x to 1500x bet on a pretty regular basis. We see it in the battles on VS every day. However, chasing the max win is a rather futile exercise.

 

[09237653]

OK, I had a look at the game sheets for the "cold hard numbers" on the chances of hitting the 5,000x bet wins

Moon Princess: Less than 1:160,000,000
Rise of Olympus: Less than 6.25e-9 or 1:6,250,000,000
Viking Runecraft: Less than 7.50113E-08 or 1:750,113,000
Book of Dead: Less than 3.74632E-07 or 1:37,463,200

Some with less than 5,000x potential:

Reactoonz (max win is 4,570.30x): Less than 3.19076E-11 or 1:319,076,000,000
Gemix (max win is 4,513.50x): Less than 9.96139E-10 or 1:99,613,900,000 (99 fricking billion )

Good luck!

P.S. Except for BoD, you have a better chance of winning the lottery I think it is safe to say that all of the above are good for wins between 500x to 1500x bet on a pretty regular basis. We see it in the battles on VS every day. However, chasing the max win is a rather futile exercise.

Where did you get these numbers from? do you have any links to "the game sheets"?

 

[Harry_BKK]

Where did you get these numbers from? do you have any links to "the game sheets"?

No can do I'm afraid, sorry!