I could use some input: how upset do I have a right to be?

[nopony]

(I'm leaving the name of the casino out of it for the moment, but it is accredited and highly regarded.)

So after months of playing I don't know how many thousands of dollars here, I finally find myself up about $20,000. I find out that the max withdrawal is 4,000 or so (by the methods available to me, in this case ACH).

So I withdraw $4,000. It is approved, in two chunks, almost two weeks ago and they tell me it will take 3-5 days to show up in my bank account.

A week later it hasn't shown up and I contact support. They tell me to contact them the next day. So I do. Then they tell me they have been having problems with ACH and it is sent now and will definitely be in my bank towards the end of the week. Fair enough.

I tell them that it is vitally important to me that it be in my bank by friday, so please tell me right now if there is any chance of further delay. They tell me no, end of the week, for sure.

Meanwhile, I am still playing, my total fluctuating between 4,000 and 20,000 or so. Until I finally lost it all (minus another 4,000 I withdrew via Usemywallet) on Thursday. Oh, well. That sucks, but I still have the important 4,000 on the way to my bank.

Thursday, not in my bank.

Friday, not in my bank. That really sucks for me for personal reasons.

So I contact support again... for the FOURTH time. (Because of the importance to me, I had triple-checked that the money was on the way to my bank.)

So today, support tells me, "Oh, that got rejected because the account it was being sent to is closed (it isn't)."

So I tell them that no, the account isn't closed, and ask them if the money is in route again, if I have to expect a further delay.

"No sir," they say "the $4000 was put back in your casino account on Wednesday."

Are you kidding me??? They promise me it's on its way three times and then the next day plop it back in my account without even telling me? No phone call, no email, no message in my account?

I played through the money that they promised was on the way to my bank without even letting me know I was playing it. And now its gone.

They tell me that it was absolutely unacceptable that the cashier didn't notify me. Ok. But too bad. Nothing they can do. Or will do, at any rate.

Maybe I should have noticed that my account went up, but I was playing crazy amounts of money with a wildly fluctuating balance. It's not like I had five bucks in there and four grand appeared.

I find it incredibly shady to take money that a player thinks is safely tucked away and slip it into their account without telling them. I guess they are hoping for exactly what happened... that I will lose it instead of withdrawing it. Maybe the whole "bank account inactive" thing was made up, I have no way of knowing.

I just feel really ripped off and I don't know what to do.

That particular 4,000 was critical to me and I would never, ever have played all the way through my money if I hadn't thought it was safely on its way to my bank account.

Any advice would sure be appreciated. I don't know what to do.

P.S. They told me to call back and talk to the cashier in twelve hours, eleven hours ago. When I called back they told me the cashiers actually aren't available until monday. So monday I will speak to the cashier and the supervisor, but the woman I talked to today told me flat out that they wouldn't do anything to make this right. My hopes are definitely not high, but that is one reason I am not publicly using the casino name until at least after that.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[silcnlayc]

Why keep the name out of this? I woul dlike to know which casino this is just so I know if I ever made a withdraw to what and who to watch out for.

As to being upset. I would definitely be upset.

(I'm leaving the name of the casino out of it for the moment, but it is accredited and highly regarded.)

So after months of playing I don't know how many thousands of dollars here, I finally find myself up about $20,000. I find out that the max withdrawal is 4,000 or so (by the methods available to me, in this case ACH).

So I withdraw $4,000. It is approved, in two chunks, almost two weeks ago and they tell me it will take 3-5 days to show up in my bank account.

A week later it hasn't shown up and I contact support. They tell me to contact them the next day. So I do. Then they tell me they have been having problems with ACH and it is sent now and will definitely be in my bank towards the end of the week. Fair enough.

I tell them that it is vitally important to me that it be in my bank by friday, so please tell me right now if there is any chance of further delay. They tell me no, end of the week, for sure.

Meanwhile, I am still playing, my total fluctuating between 4,000 and 20,000 or so. Until I finally lost it all (minus another 4,000 I withdrew via Usemywallet) on Thursday. Oh, well. That sucks, but I still have the important 4,000 on the way to my bank.

Thursday, not in my bank.

Friday, not in my bank. That really sucks for me for personal reasons.

So I contact support again... for the FOURTH time. (Because of the importance to me, I had triple-checked that the money was on the way to my bank.)

So today, support tells me, "Oh, that got rejected because the account it was being sent to is closed (it isn't)."

So I tell them that no, the account isn't closed, and ask them if the money is in route again, if I have to expect a further delay.

"No sir," they say "the $4000 was put back in your casino account on Wednesday."

Are you kidding me??? They promise me it's on its way three times and then the next day plop it back in my account without even telling me? No phone call, no email, no message in my account?

I played through the money that they promised was on the way to my bank without even letting me know I was playing it. And now its gone.

They tell me that it was absolutely unacceptable that the cashier didn't notify me. Ok. But too bad. Nothing they can do. Or will do, at any rate.

Maybe I should have noticed that my account went up, but I was playing crazy amounts of money with a wildly fluctuating balance. It's not like I had five bucks in there and four grand appeared.

I find it incredibly shady to take money that a player thinks is safely tucked away and slip it into their account without telling them. I guess they are hoping for exactly what happened... that I will lose it instead of withdrawing it. Maybe the whole "bank account inactive" thing was made up, I have no way of knowing.

I just feel really ripped off and I don't know what to do.

That particular 4,000 was critical to me and I would never, ever have played all the way through my money if I hadn't thought it was safely on its way to my bank account.

Any advice would sure be appreciated. I don't know what to do.

P.S. They told me to call back and talk to the cashier in twelve hours, eleven hours ago. When I called back they told me the cashiers actually aren't available until monday. So monday I will speak to the cashier and the supervisor, but the woman I talked to today told me flat out that they wouldn't do anything to make this right. My hopes are definitely not high, but that is one reason I am not publicly using the casino name until at least after that.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[ksech]

You have a right to be upset to a point...
At some point you have to take responsibility for your actions. If this money was so important, you should have walked away and played someplace else until the money was safely in your bank account, JMO.

The stall tactics by the casino are not alright. For them to keep telling you the money is on it's way and then nothing is "roguish" and unless you are going to PAB, then a name and shame is in order.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The short answer.. PAB (Pitch A Bitch). Max will investigate what went wrong, and whether the casino is liable. Accredited casinos have to meet certain standards, and then keep them up in order to remain accredited.

If you feel you are due some kind of settlement, you are more likely to get a result if you follow the PAB procedure, rather than fight it out in the forums.

There should also be a rep for the casino here, and the first move would be to contact them with a summary of this issue.

The main problem with casinos that limit you to $4000 per week withdrawals when you win big is that players are exposed to the temptation to play the remainder back whilst awaiting the next weekly opportunity to withdraw another chunk. You were tempted, and ended playing all of it back.

You still have the other $4000 you withdrew, but $8000 would have been better, but resisting temptation and getting $20,000 would have been BEST.

One tactic used by players in this position is to uninstall the casino where they have won a large amount, only reinstalling it to submit further withdrawals, and making fresh deposits and playing in a different casino, using only money they already have, rather than relying on a withdrawal making it's way to you to cover further play.

The practise of quietly slipping money into a player's account whilst they are logged on & playing IS unacceptable - even if they DO later send an email telling you it has been done, and this is where the casino has fallen short of the expected standards.

You being told that the credit was rejected because the account was closed also needs investigating, and it may be your BANK that lied, not the casino. Another possibilty is that the casino used the wrong bank details, either through their own incompetence, or through YOUR incompetence when giving out the details for them to use.

Ask the casino what bank details were used, and check that they are the correct ones for your bank. If they are correct, you can then say that the reason for the rejection was bogus, although not who in the chain "made up this excuse".

 

[Nifty29]

The correct procedure for complaints concerning Accred casinos is:

1. Contact the Rep and wait a reasonable time for a response (i.e. not a couple of hours and consider weekends as non-days)

2. Submit a PAB

You certainly have a right to post about it, but it is always best to contact the rep before you do as many issues can be cleared up quickly.

If you plan to submit a PAB, then you should cease posting immediately.

IMO the situation is a difficult one, as it is the players responsibility to keep track of their bets and balances. I find it difficult to believe, even with your balance moving between 4k and 20k, that you would not notice 4k just 'appearing' or being there when you next logged in. If 4k is going to slip by unnoticed then you probably need to find a way to track your bets more efficiently.

That said, the casino should have notified you when the money was returned. The result of your PAB may rest on whether the problem was at your end (e.g. closed account, wrong details provided, your bank error etc) or the casinos' end (wrong details used or a problem with their processor).

You should at least be given some kind of comp for the inconvenience.

 

[chuchu59]

i do find it difficult to believe that the 4k is crtitcal to the op as claimed given the fact that he played wildly with 16k while waiting. regardless, the casino is wrong if they reversed the 4k in question without his consent but it needs to be proven that this happened whilst the player was spinning. if this were a mg casino playcheck can easily detect this. otherwise, we will need the logs to prove it.

 

[rainmaker]

chuchu59: It is quite typical for a player with a gambling problem to gamble with money he/she can not afford to lose. The fact that the player later played wildly does not necessary means that the withdrawal is of no importance. This will in my opinion, actually indicate the opposite.
'
I am not saying that this player do have a gambling problem of course. This was generally spoken.



I don't think the OP has a case here. He did a withdrawal, some problems occurred an the money was transferred back to his casino account. He played it away.

The casino should take self-criticism if they are to be blamed for the canceled withdrawal. They may want to give him a compensation.

It has happened to me a couple of times that my withdrawal has been canceled by the casino because my account has not been verified yet. This does not mean that I can use this money to gamble with (and lose), for later to ask the casino to complete my withdrawal even though my withdrawal has been lost. This would be a crazy practice.

"let's hope the casino will do a mistake"-practice

 

[nisosbar]

Why keep the name out of this? I woul dlike to know which casino this is just so I know if I ever made a withdraw to what and who to watch out for.

As to being upset. I would definitely be upset.

Agree 100%. If the casino did nothing wrong, then what's the objection to naming them? I also agree that I would be upset with the casino, esp. in light of the fact that it's accredited. Accredited casinos are my first choice, since they are held to the highest standards.

I do think you should get some kind of comp, at a minimum. But before you say anything else here at all, wait for Monday to speak with the cashier, and after that, if you are dissatisfied, PAB here with Max.

Good luck.

 

[LHofsdal]

My guess it is Club World group. They are the only ones I know of that allow 4 grand a week and allow ACH withdrawls.

If there is any truth to this saga, I would do a PAB right away. I am wondering though, if the money was put back into the account wouldn't you have noticed the difference in your balance. I mean 4 grand is pretty noticeable. If in fact the casino did do this, they should be held accountable and yes, you do have the right to upset.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not calling the OP a liar, and I myself am seriously considering closing my accounts with this group. They have had many complaints surface lately and to be quite frank, they have lost their "luster" with me after a disturbing e-mail I received for someone in their organization. Maybe a disgruntled employee, I don't know but they had all my information, deposits, play logs and personal information. The e-mail basically told me that my account is flagged and not to deposit anymore.

When I replied to the e-mail it was bounced back, saying no such e-mail account. At first I did not think of anything of it, just thought it was an upset ex-employee, but after 12 deposits and not hitting a damn feature or withdrawal, not even coming close to meeting withdrawal requirements, at all 4 of the casinos I belong to in this group, I am starting to think there might be some truth to it. Call it bad luck, or what ever you want to, but having the bad luck at all 4 casinos on all deposits, I think it is more than that.

Good luck, and I really hope that everything gets sorted out.
LH

 

[vinylweatherman]

My guess it is Club World group. They are the only ones I know of that allow 4 grand a week and allow ACH withdrawls.

If there is any truth to this saga, I would do a PAB right away. I am wondering though, if the money was put back into the account wouldn't you have noticed the difference in your balance. I mean 4 grand is pretty noticeable. If in fact the casino did do this, they should be held accountable and yes, you do have the right to upset.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not calling the OP a liar, and I myself am seriously considering closing my accounts with this group. They have had many complaints surface lately and to be quite frank, they have lost their "luster" with me after a disturbing e-mail I received for someone in their organization. Maybe a disgruntled employee, I don't know but they had all my information, deposits, play logs and personal information. The e-mail basically told me that my account is flagged and not to deposit anymore.

When I replied to the e-mail it was bounced back, saying no such e-mail account. At first I did not think of anything of it, just thought it was an upset ex-employee, but after 12 deposits and not hitting a damn feature or withdrawal, not even coming close to meeting withdrawal requirements, at all 4 of the casinos I belong to in this group, I am starting to think there might be some truth to it. Call it bad luck, or what ever you want to, but having the bad luck at all 4 casinos on all deposits, I think it is more than that.

Good luck, and I really hope that everything gets sorted out.
LH

VERY odd, if they didn't want you to deposit, they would simply have locked the account in question rather than allow you to carry on depositing, and doing whatever they considered bad enough to "flag" your account in the first place.

It sounds like someone who had no business having access to this level of information was dealing with this, and certainly someone who had little idea that they could simply lock the account to prevent you from playing any further, rather than relying on you actually READING that email.

Since you couldn't reply, they can have no idea whether or not you even saw the instruction not to deposit. They then allowed a further 12 breaches of that instruction without further comment.

 

[LHofsdal]

It is VERY odd. That is why I am not sure what to think. I have always had this group in good standing with me personally. Even though at times I was mad because since October with I won that RJ, things were different. I would get daily VIP bonuses, and I mean daily, now I am lucky to get one every other month. My play time at all these casinos are just flat out horrible.

Is it possible to have such horrible luck at all the casinos that I belong to in this group, who knows but I am sure someone will say yes. Although I really don't hold much water to what was sent in the e-mail, but it does stick in the back of my mind and something I will not forget. I am not they type of person to go crazy without someone presenting me with facts, and the only facts they had were my transactions and play logs. They never used their name, and stated they were trying to give me a heads up because they noticed I have been requesting my play logs quite abit. Until they show my where my account is actually flagged from winning anything, meaning a screen shot or something, I will not go crazy over it.


LH

 

[3mptyseat]

no, i think

VERY odd, if they didn't want you to deposit, they would simply have locked the account in question rather than allow you to carry on depositing, and doing whatever they considered bad enough to "flag" your account in the first place.

It sounds like someone who had no business having access to this level of information was dealing with this, and certainly someone who had little idea that they could simply lock the account to prevent you from playing any further, rather than relying on you actually READING that email.

Since you couldn't reply, they can have no idea whether or not you even saw the instruction not to deposit. They then allowed a further 12 breaches of that instruction without further comment.

I think What LH meant was... The ex-employee had talked with LH in chat, or gotten to know them, or possibly just empathetic, and was warning LH, "Don't depo here, ur account to set to fail..."

Is that what ur suggesting LH?? I would not be surprised if this is possible... Something seriously shady is about to surface bout RTG, as if the myriad player experiences over the past few years were not enough... Can u PM me the email?

 

[clubworld]

LHofsdal - I have noticed this thread and am obviously concerned with the email that you have received. Please can you forward me this email, I sent you my email address yesterday by PM but have not heard back from you yet.

Many thanks
Tom

 

[LHofsdal]

I don't have the e-mail anymore,I deleted it. I received it a few weeks ago. Like I said when I got it, I tried to reply but it got bounced back as no such e-mail address. When it bounced back, I figured it was someone who was pissed off or an April fools joke because I received it around 4/1 or a day or so before it, and didn't think much of it until I kept having horrible play sessions.

@3mpty-I really don't know any of the CSR at any one of the casinos in the group. When I would ask for my play logs I did it through the message box at the site.


LH

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't have the e-mail anymore,I deleted it. I received it a few weeks ago. Like I said when I got it, I tried to reply but it got bounced back as no such e-mail address. When it bounced back, I figured it was someone who was pissed off or an April fools joke because I received it around 4/1 or a day or so before it, and didn't think much of it until I kept having horrible play sessions.

@3mpty-I really don't know any of the CSR at any one of the casinos in the group. When I would ask for my play logs I did it through the message box at the site.


LH

Whoever this was, they had your SECURE personal information from the CW group, so this had to be an "inside job".

"flagged" does NOT mean "set to lose", or "RTP adjusted". Flagging an account simply means that activity on the account has been deemed "suspicious".

It seems like someone decided to use an underhand and "off the record" means to discourage this player from making further deposits, and quoted some player specific information to give the email credibilty. It seems to have come from a "spoofed" email address, as it clearly didn't exist, as shown by the bounced reply.

If this was an April fool prank, it has backfired, as some do.

Having bad luck on the following 12 deposits is probably coincidence, however the sudden withdrawal of the usual VIP bonuses is NOT, and substantiates the claim that the account had become "flagged" in some way. The connection appears to be the earlier RJ, a nice withdrawal, followed by the account being "flagged", presumably so as to cut it from the VIP bonus list.

Constantly requesting playlogs can be a "pain" for CS, but if the software allowed the player to check their OWN playlogs, this would not be a burden to CS.
Could this be an exasperated member of CS who is fed up with servicing all these requests for playlogs?

Quite a few players just like to analyse the stats of their play, as some kind of hobby. Others might seek to use the data to "prove" something about the fairness or otherwise of the games.

Very few attempts to "prove the game is rigged" stand up to scrutiny. recent successful proofs of rigging can be counted on the fingers of one hand. English harbour VP double up, Absolute poker, Mansion multi-hand VP (redealing discards), along with a few proofs that rogue software is rigged.

No such attempt to prove that RTG is rigged has stood up to scrutiny, even though the debate has revealed a few worrying user options that have been available for operators. Whatever RTP setting is used, RTG slots are STILL considered random, which means they are NOT "rigged".

Although the email has been deleted, has it been EMPTIED from the "trash", or could it still exist on the email server, if not the client PC?

CW can't really get to the bottom of this without seeing the email, as any member of staff responsible is unlikely to confess in case they are disciplined, and if it is a member of staff, or even an ex member, this action indicates a potential security breach.

I would urge LHofsdal to explore all possibilities for retrieving this email, and if found, forward it to Tom.

 

[LHofsdal]

I am trying to find it, I am bringing my laptop to Best Buy to see if they can try and retrieve it. I have no clue as to what to do to try and find it. I know very little about computers and how they operate.

LH

 

[ergopro]

This thread obviously would need the RTG Superuser screenshot from BetPhoenix thread...

 

[Nate]

I am trying to find it, I am bringing my laptop to Best Buy to see if they can try and retrieve it. I have no clue as to what to do to try and find it. I know very little about computers and how they operate.

LH

Even if you deleted the email you received, have you tried checking your 'Sent Items' or 'Deleted Items'? You may just find a copy lying there.

Nate

 

[Gret]

Got a bad feeling about this one.

If it were me, I would go look in the mirror and slap myself, then ask my wife to do the same (slap me that is)...afterwards I would go find a priest, rabbi, monk, or whatever and get my soul cleansed so I never did anything this silly again.

You're doomed if you aren't in control of your bankroll and possess some level of self discipline.

 

[LHofsdal]

Even if you deleted the email you received, have you tried checking your 'Sent Items' or 'Deleted Items'? You may just find a copy lying there.

Nate

Nate,

I have TrendMicro Titanium Pro as my virus scan, and when you delete something it does what they call a secure earse, where it overwrites the stuff you delete several times with random data. Not exactly sure what that means, but hubby said it makes it harder to get to. So it is not as easy as some people think to try and retrieve it. My hubby has the laptops set up so that all e-mails that are sent and deleted get dumped everyday because we have been robbed before and 4 laptops and 2 desk tops computers were taken. So now he tries to protect everything by doing this.

Best Buy is going to look at my laptop on Wednesday and I will see what they can do.

LH

 

[vinylweatherman]

Nate,

I have TrendMicro Titanium Pro as my virus scan, and when you delete something it does what they call a secure earse, where it overwrites the stuff you delete several times with random data. Not exactly sure what that means, but hubby said it makes it harder to get to. So it is not as easy as some people think to try and retrieve it. My hubby has the laptops set up so that all e-mails that are sent and deleted get dumped everyday because we have been robbed before and 4 laptops and 2 desk tops computers were taken. So now he tries to protect everything by doing this.

Best Buy is going to look at my laptop on Wednesday and I will see what they can do.

LH

I don't think they will be able to recover it, but it could still exist on your email server, the one used by your ISP (or alternate email supplier). A local "secure delete" would have no effect on the server, and what normally happens is that when an email is deleted locally, the email client connects to the server to remove those emails from the "inbox" into "trash", where they remain for a period of time before being REALLY deleted altogether.

My ISP stores 30 days worth, and they are still there even after I have locally deleted them. If this was me, I would be able to retrieve an email from the beginning of April from my email server, even if I had secure deleted it from the PC.

Besides, I don't delete such controversial emails, I store them in case they become important later on.

 

[gambler777]

What I find strange is that I requested a wire transfer, and the cashier at Clubworld decided I would be better off with an ACH,, yet here you are telling me they had some problems with the ACH so why would I be better off with ACH,, The cashier's decision delayed my withdrawal another 24 hours and now they want to send it ACH and it takes 3-4 days to receive. Why would I want that instead of wire transfer? My bank has no problem with wire and it gets there the same day it is processed. At least that is how it works at Inetbet. Can't tell at clubworld because they are always delaying my withdrawals for one reason or another. None of which I find credible.

 

[BBKPoker]

You have a right to be upset at delayed payments, you also appear to have a serious gambling problem, and should discontinue playing online and work on getting help for it. There's no reason you should ever have $20k of money in an online casino account when you critically need $4k for something in the real world, and if your gambling losses are a legitimate obstacle or burden on your real life than something is wrong.

Sorry to be "that guy" because it always winds up sounding patronizing or condescending, but seriously, get your priorities straight.

 

[milemaster]

ACH

I can say that I had ACH problems with one of the club world casinos about a week ago. It took a week to process and then it was re-deposited back into my account. However I did receive an email (in my spam folder) telling me that ACH failed and to select another method. My reward for waiting for a week was to select the only remaining withdrawl option, usemywallet.com for a lovely 30.00 fee.

Winning Balance 275.00
minus 25.00 bonus
minus 30.00 withdrawl fee
= 220.00 withdrawl

9 days and counting and still not on my bank account. Needless to say I closed my account. What's the point?

 

[gamegenie]

i'm having problems too with getting money from a club world casino. also wire transfer/ACH.