Hull asking govt if it can trial Universal Basic Income.

[steveh35]

I thought this idea had died with the Labour Party election loss and Finland failed trial but Hull are keen.

Not sure I would move to Hull just to get it though

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[goatwack]

Hurray for Hulltans or whatever they're called

 

[steveh35]

Hurray for Hulltans or whatever they're called

I think they are called Kingstonians

 

[SteveBr]

We’re Hullensians, Mr Goat.

How strange that the first I’ve heard of this is on here.

 

[goatwack]

Clearly a socialist utopian pipe-dream that's already provably failed in other countries, Finland, U.S, Kenya etc

Plus how would this be sustainable long-term exactly

 

[steveh35]

Clearly a socialist utopian pipe-dream that's already provably failed in other countries, Finland, U.S, Kenya etc

Plus how would this be sustainable long-term exactly

For long term £200-£400 a month could work if the need for the DWP is removed as that is a huge saving however the idea for the UK one was that people still worked maybe not full time and also the controversy that everyone gets it no matter what their income or financial circumstances.

I can't see how people in Hull or Sheffield or Liverpool can just be given free money without the rest of the country going into an uproar.

 

[SteveBr]

Hey I know I live here and love the place, but the council is just a tad mental. On that basis I’m not surprised they’ve come up with an idea such as this.

 

[goatwack]

You can't make it viable long-term without scrapping said other services, maybe the NHS too.

Literally the dumbest idea ever to be devised by council bodies

 

[colinsunderland]

I don't understand how this works, is it on top of existing money coming in, or if someone gets benefits does it replace them completely, so they are massively worse off?

 

[steveh35]

I don't understand how this works, is it on top of existing money coming in, or if someone gets benefits does it replace them completely, so they are massively worse off?

People receiving disability payments would instead get the equivalent sum in universal basic income (UBI) and there would be higher payments for pensioners and lower sums for children.

Thats what they are saying will happen.

 

[colinsunderland]

People receiving disability payments would instead get the equivalent sum in universal basic income (UBI) and there would be higher payments for pensioners and lower sums for children.

Thats what they are saying will happen.

Right, but thats a absolute minefield, for a start, it mentions it could be £50, basic universal credit is higher than that, and I would love to see someone paying rent, gas and electric out of it! Universal credit is still a complete cluster fuck, which has cost billions and took years to get wrong, no way this will be brought in in my lifetime!

 

[steveh35]

Right, but thats a absolute minefield, for a start, it mentions it could be £50, basic universal credit is higher than that, and I would love to see someone paying rent, gas and electric out of it! Universal credit is still a complete cluster fuck, which has cost billions and took years to get wrong, no way this will be brought in in my lifetime!

The simplest way is anyone on UC credit gets their UBI paid through DWP everyone else gets a standard payment aid out by the council of course this will no doubt lead to wrong payments and due to confidentiality how will the council know what DWP is paying and vice versa.

When I worked in HMRC the departments were not even allowed to talk to each other about due to confidentiality.

Problem for Hull is where do they get the money to pay this and how can they do it legally without the government bringing in legislation just for them.

 

[colinsunderland]

The simplest way is anyone on UC credit gets their UBI paid through DWP everyone else gets a standard payment aid out by the council of course this will no doubt lead to wrong payments and due to confidentiality how will the council know what DWP is paying and vice versa.

When I worked in HMRC the departments were not even allowed to talk to each other about due to confidentiality.

Problem for Hull is where do they get the money to pay this and how can they do it legally without the government bringing in legislation just for them.

I believe the DWP can deal with Housing Benefit departments, so shouldn't be too hard for them to speak to a different department. I know regularly I see people who have had letters from council tax/housing benefit saying their claims been suspended due to a change in circumstances, then 2-3 days later get a letter from the DWP telling them their ESA (or whatever) has changed, so it must be electronically sent to HB instantly.

I just can't see this working, they started rolling out Universal Credit in 2013, the roll out isn't expected to end till about 2023, and I'll be surprised if there isn't more delays, with more high court challenges along the way. Imagine how long this will take to do for every single person in the UK! From what I've seen, the few trials there has been in other countries, haven't exactly gone well.

 

[steveh35]

The idea will be rejected anyway Hull is a Labour council and there is no way a Conservative govt will allow a Labour run council to implement an idea which could lead to a widespread change in the UK especially if it turned out to actually work.

More likely Boris will nick the idea himself if he thinks it's what people want.