High Noon Casino account closed - student issue

[silcnlayc]

Casinomeister: Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted to play in the Casino.

The guy is under 25 and is a full time student. For those of you who want to argue the fact that the terms don't read "high school" need to step away from their computers for a bit and get some fresh air.

Yes, he is a student of high school, but he does not meet the criteria laid down by the rule the casino posted.

Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted to play in the Casino.

Should read :

Full time students aged 25 or under and students that are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted to play in the Casino.

Reads totally different. Yes? The first states that a student under 25 that is in college, the second states under 25 and those in college...definitely reads differently ...JMT (just my thoughts)

A play on words is a very hard thing but when a player must keep to the "idea" or "spirit" of the rules, why does the casino get a pass on it? Ok, ok, I am now going to

to step away from their computers for a bit and get some fresh air.

as suggested...

.

 

[rainmaker]

In Norway (in Norwegian law), it is not always that a word should be interpreted exactly as written. As a rule, the intention behind the law is more important than the accuracy of the statements. This is often also valid in other countries (especially western law) .

Even if a country's laws are completely different than casinos T&C (can not be compared) we may to some extent use the same approach.

In this case there is no doubt about what the casino's intention is, and this will have to exceed the somewhat lacking accuracy of the casinos T&C.

There is no doubt that the player knew or should have known that he was not able to play under this T&C

 

[inthedesert]

Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted to play in the Casino.

This is such a poorly written term. What's to say a person already has a degree and is doing online courses, and is working full-time. I think this issue has been seen here before. It's the rule of the casino though so I can't dispute it.

I would like to know if the casino calls every single player under 25 and asks them if they attend University or College. I am sure they don't. I am sure they do it with a select group of people though; winners.

It's a rule that protects the casino. If a big winner comes in they call and hope he/she says he/she is taking classes full time. We don't know exactly how this rule works it's up to the casino to decide what full-time is. If I am not working, and in school four hours a day then is that full time?

This can also go for the player too. If your under 25 and you win then you deny your in school. If you lose then pull out the University ID and I am sure your refund will be promptly returned because you broke the terms

 

[Gret]

Yes, he is a student of high school, but he does not meet the criteria laid down by the rule the casino posted. Should read : Reads totally different. Yes? The first states that a student under 25 that is in college, the second states under 25 and those in college...definitely reads differently ...JMT (just my thoughts)

A play on words is a very hard thing but when a player must keep to the "idea" or "spirit" of the rules, why does the casino get a pass on it? Ok, ok, I am now going to as suggested...

.

Agree 100%. The provision is straight forward and without ambiguity. They wrote the rule and one shouldn't have to guess what they mean.

I'm dense and really ignorant, but why do they have the college /university provision? If you are over 18 (21 in some states), you can gamble. Why not online.

They will work something out that is fair.

As far as his comments, he obviously failed miserable to respect the decorum that one would expect from an 18 year old posting in this forum.

 

[Da_Gambla]

They don't want students. The spirit of the T&Cs is intact. It is mangled English, which is typical, if not expected, but the intent/spirit is quite clear. Taking mangled English and then using it to split hairs is kind of pointless, really. They were obviously going to leave it at 'full-time' students, and then tried to add on verbiage describing college students who do not fit the criteria of full-time. In mangling the English whilst connecting the two sentences, they inadvertently left something open for someone LOOKING for a variable to exploit.

Bryan's been doing this how many years? I'm not sure our combined absorption of all the various T&Cs over the years can even compete with his alone. He understands what he's reading there, and I don't get the mob mentality that tries to convince him to agree that you should be able to exploit this.

Common sense a lot of times can solve these issues. Why on Earth would a casino want to exclude ALL full-time students, and attempt to close a loophole for part-time college students, but allow High School students? It's a ridiculous notion, and the spirit of these T&Cs should easily close any loopholes that are trying to be exploited here.

What I will absolutely agree with here, is that casinos with these types of terms should be required to try and find these cases at the time of deposit. Whilst it's their right to exclude all students, I guess it's also their right to make themselves appear predatory with how it's applied. That's on them. I'd avoid this business, and I'd not recommend it to others.

- Keith

 

[3mptyseat]

I can't fathom why some of you are arguing for this player - the guy is a student.



The guy is under 25 and is a full time student. For those of you who want to argue the fact that the terms don't read "high school" need to step away from their computers for a bit and get some fresh air.

Well said, and ur right, these terms do exclude this player. IMO they are smug, pompous, arrogant, presumptuous, ridiculous, and time wasting terms, but completely within CWC's rights, and hence, the law at High Noon. The semantic battle fought in the above posts is only being argued bc once again CWC has left holes in the clause structure. If it said "...all students under 25..." they would not be the subject of so many threads, and this one for sure would never have had liftoff. Its got too many words opening the door for interpretation, which, I imagine, is exactly what they are after.

 

[Redbush54]

In the Club World thread, I raised the question of high school students. Clubworld had input before revising their terms... College or University is very specific.

I think this player should be paid his winnings. Close the account, and revise the term again.

I totally agree with Jas on this one. Plus if they really want to get it right they need to change it to age 25 and under who are students. You leave the term full time then you end up with someone trying to determine the definition of full time. Is that 16hrs, 19hrs, 13hrs of studies?

This is JMO

 

[pevangel]

Question please, does CW in their T&C's, reserve the right to change or amend their T&C's? I am curious.


pevangel

 

[ksech]

Question please, does CW in their T&C's, reserve the right to change or amend their T&C's? I am curious.


pevangel

15. HNC reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of any offer including promotional and bonus offers at any time and it is the player’s responsibility to periodically check on this page and the promotions page for changes and updates.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casino-terms-conditions.41024/ post #25 lists the T&Cs for High Noon casino

 

[all4greed]

Pay the player, change your wording, close the account, life goes on.

 

[Papa-ya]

There are plenty of casinos that don't have this clause, so why choose the one group that does have the student rule?
If I were 18, still in high school and was thinking of risking my money to a casino, had read this rule about students, I would either go elsewhere or contact cs first, before making a deposit and ask them if I were allowed to wager and withdraw if I were to win.
Players no matter the age or situation, should be more proactive when it comes to a venture you are going to deposit your money into.

 

[colly]

OK since some want to argue semantics- from the english dictionary

See Number 3- enough said!


college [ kóllij ] (plural colleges)


noun

Definition:

1. institution of higher learning: an educational institution for higher education, especially one offering courses in specialized or practical subjects
a further education college
2. part of British university: a division of some of the larger British universities, e.g. Oxford and Cambridge
3. school: a school for students after the age of 16
a sixth form college
4. British school: used as part of the name of some British public school
5. professional body: a group of people, usually of the same profession, who have agreed duties and rights
[14th century. Directly or via French< Latin collegium 'association, corporation' < collega (see colleague)]


FOr those who have never heard of the term ised for high school- a list of the top 20 high schools in Victoria- note how many are called colleges

Category : Education > Public Secondary Schools > Victoria
Education sitemap | Add something new
Located in Victoria.

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8


Eumemmerring Secondary College Hallam Hallam
Lyndale Secondary College Dandenong North Dandenong North
Broadford Secondary College Broadford Broadford
Benton Junior College Mornington Mornington
Pembroke Secondary College Mount Evelyn Mount Evelyn
The Grange P 12 College Hoppers Crossing Hoppers Crossing
Baden Powell P 9 College Hoppers Crossing Hoppers Crossing
Orbost Secondary College Orbost Orbost
Boronia Heights College Boronia Boronia
Brentwood Secondary College Glen Waverley Glen Waverley
Buckley Park College Essendon Essendon
Carrum Downs Secondary College Carrum Downs Carrum Downs
Lilydale Heights College Lilydale Lilydale
Lilydale High School Lilydale Lilydale
Mac Robertson Girls High School Melbourne Melbourne
Trafalgar High School Trafalgar Trafalgar
Keilor Downs Secondary College Keilor Downs Keilor Downs
Camperdown College Camperdown Camperdown
Balwyn High School Balwyn North Balwyn North
Box Hill Senior Secondary College Mont Albert North Mont Albert North
SO even if you choose to ignore intent this is black and white definition and listings

CWC is well within its rights


Cheers
Colly

 

[Nifty29]

college [ kóllij ] (plural colleges)


noun

Definition:

1. institution of higher learning: an educational institution for higher education, especially one offering courses in specialized or practical subjects
a further education college
2. part of British university: a division of some of the larger British universities, e.g. Oxford and Cambridge
3. school: a school for students after the age of 16
a sixth form college
4. British school: used as part of the name of some British public school
5. professional body: a group of people, usually of the same profession, who have agreed duties and rights

Well that settles it....unless of course there are some who question the accuracy of the dictionary

It doesn't matter what any particular country 'calls' it as we now have the definition of 'college'.

So, since those who say the player must be paid are insisting that we stick exactly to the wording of the term, it is clear that the player is in breach of the term:

Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College

...or will we now argue that when they said 'college' they actually didn't mean 'high school' i.e. we should now abide by the spirit of that specific term.

Once again we have a situation where a player did not read the terms and conditions and had their winnings confiscated. I don't know why people continue to deposit money at a new casino without checking out the terms.

Personally I think the whole student ban thing is ridiculous and I don't know why they keep it in place (it certainly isn't for humanitarian reasons...). However, it is there and jassiv, being a college/highschool student, has been banned as a result.

CWC should return the deposit as the player didn't have a chance to win.

 

[DaftDog]

Get a Life

Seriously, those of you who are arguing in favour of the student have got f-all to do and all day to do it in.

As the Casinomeister suggested open the window just a crack to let some fresh air in. I think a lot of you have been smelling your own farts for far too long.

 

[KasinoKing]

Im going to have to disagree here. Casinos expect us to pick their T&Cs with a fine tooth comb. They use twisted reasoning at times when writing their T&C's. Clearly it does not say high school students. Pay the player.

Yep - I'm on the player's side too.
If casinos are going to have this sort of rule, then they need to vet EVERYONE under 25 when they sign-up to make sure they are not a student BEFORE they let them deposit.
Either that, or make their T&C's 110% unambiguous.

Like others have said, I bet they don't refund students who LOSE their deposits.
Another win-win situation for the casino...

KK

 

[Da_Gambla]

Yep - I'm on the player's side too.

Wish I could be on every player's side, but I simply cannot if they don't try to help themselves first. If you read those terms, and you are a High School student, wouldn't you fire up Support and verify you can play, or what their definition of college is?

No, this player didn't do that. He deposited and played. If you're not going to do some work up front when your situation might be borderline against their terms, then good luck cashing out.

I would be 100% behind this player if these terms were so ambiguous that a reasonably intelligent person might get caught in a trap. That simply isn't the case here. In this case, we have a reasonably intelligent person trying to exploit language semantics, and therefore trying to trap the casino.

Sorry... /sympathy

- Keith

 

[KasinoKing]

I would be 100% behind this player if these terms were so ambiguous that a reasonably intelligent person might get caught in a trap. That simply isn't the case here. In this case, we have a reasonably intelligent person trying to exploit language semantics, and therefore trying to trap the casino.

We agree to disagree then!
I very seriously doubt this reasonably intelligent person even checked the T&C's before signing up, at least, not for a "no student" policy.
How many other casinos can you name that have something similar?

If he didn't read the T&C's AND they were totally unambiguous (i.e. if they just said "No students under 25"), then I would side with the casino.

I just don't buy the "semantics" argument, especially if this can only be applied to "intelligent" students. What about the students who aren't so intelligent?
A School is a school, a College is a college, a University is a university. They are not all the same thing - that's why they have 3 different names.
The T&C's were quite specific IMHO.

And the suggestion that the player was trying to "trap" the casino is just bizarre! To what end, I have to ask?
Again, all just IMHO!

KK

 

[petro]

However I'm neither college nor university student, I'm in high school.

What are you doing here then?
Online casinos are bad news dude. No one with a chance to live a decent life should be here...

I'm serious.

 

[Da_Gambla]

We agree to disagree then!
I very seriously doubt this reasonably intelligent person even checked the T&C's before signing up, at least, not for a "no student" policy.
How many other casinos can you name that have something similar?

Ya know.. you have been here long enough KK.. back then we used to get all the 'poor me' posts that began with "Hi all, I deposited but didn't read the T&C's, and apparently..." or "Hey everyone, I deposited at xyz casino and didn't see this HIDDEN in their T&C's.."

So, it just has become more or less forum policy that 'not reading' the T&C's isn't going to justify a cause of action on your behalf (hence, 'helping yourself'). But you are going to float that here as argument?

If you doubt that this person even read the T&C's, yet agree they aren't hidden, then HE LOSES. He didn't help himself. What are we supposed to do for him?

If he didn't read the T&C's AND they were totally unambiguous (i.e. if they just said "No students under 25"), then I would side with the casino.

I just don't buy the "semantics" argument, especially if this can only be applied to "intelligent" students. What about the students who aren't so intelligent?
A School is a school, a College is a college, a University is a university. They are not all the same thing - that's why they have 3 different names.
The T&C's were quite specific IMHO.

No, this isn't the case. As has been pointed out earlier, the definition of college varies from region to region. This is all moot. This is why it's called semantics, which means, one person may take it differently than another. But you're not buying semantics.. ok..?

There's no semantics lost in the fact that they have CLEAR T&C's that prohibit students. If there IS semantic issues that lead you to believe that you don't fall under those exclusions, then it's up to YOU to contact CS and verify that. If you don't, good luck... a casino just simply cannot use a weapon that you don't HAND them...

And the suggestion that the player was trying to "trap" the casino is just bizarre! To what end, I have to ask?
Again, all just IMHO!

KK

Why, the end of cashing out? Being paid?

If he didn't read the T&C's, that's his bad, but upon finding out which T&C's he broke, he investigated and thinks he found a loophole that entitles him to register at CM and post his theory. Denied. He didn't read the terms.

If he did read the terms, then obviously he knew he was at best in a very gray area. Did he contact CS and verify his eligibility? No. He deposited and decided that if he had a problem down the road, he would face that problem down the road and use his theory for argument then.

He either tried to trap after the fact, or knew he had a possible trap before the fact (the 'fact' being a deposit and play through).

// sympathy

- Keith

 

[Nifty29]

I get where you are coming from KK and would agree if the term were ambiguous.

Many have said in this thread that the casino needs to follow exactly the wording of the term and apply it precisely or pay the player.

We have already established what the dictionary meaning of the word 'college' is and it applies 100% to the OP.....hence he broke that specific term, hence he forfeits the winnings.

Da_Gambla is right when he talks about not reading terms etc. It is clear that the OP wasn't arsed to even have a quick look at the terms otherwise he would have seen the student clause. He may have been unsure about what category he belonged to....but then he could have contacted support to find out.

I also get the feeling that this is more of a beat-up than usual due to some people taking the opportunity to sink the boots into CWC after having the other thread closed. IMO there wouldn't be as many people pleading the players' case if it were a different casino.

The only way he could be considered to not be covered by this term is if his place of study was not considered a college or university and this is not the case...and that is not an opinion, it is a fact.

 

[Jasminebed]

When I was in high school, I would not have said I was in College or University if asked.

When there's a list of education completed, high school, college and university are listed separately.

If you were hiring and someone listed completed college on their resume, would you feel they misrepresented themselves if they only completed high school? Lying on your resume is grounds for dismissal at many places.

I certainly don't feel the term is unambiguous.

 

[Nate]

Query....

Wasn't this whole student issue based on 'Protecting' students from gambling away their College or University funds?

If this is the case, then would it apply to school kids? School is not regarded as a tertiary education and is AFAIK much cheaper than College or University.

If the OP is 18 and legally allowed to partake in gambling in his Jurisdiction, how would this rule apply to him? The targeted individuals were students from Colleges and Universities


I agree with both opinions on the matter, but it's obvious once again that the term is not 100% clear.

Nate

 

[lauram]

If the casino has age restrictions to play so be it. But for me I think asking that students not play is wrong. Before you jump all over me let me explain. There are many adults going back to school to get their high school degree. What about the person thats in university for 4 years and in their mid 20`s and have a income. I also know a few adults age 40 taking classes. So what happens now they have played at online casinos for years, gone back to school to find out that if they deposit they will no longer be paid. Sorry the casino has a issue here. If they go by age then so be it but not both.

 

[funeral979]

And the suggestion that the player was trying to "trap" the casino is just bizarre! To what end, I have to ask?
KK

My thoughts exactly! Its more like the other way around, if you ask me. Im sure than there are many students playing there now who have never cashed out.....and who don't know any better. They don't have a chance of winning. I don't know if this was brought up in the other thread....but does being home schooled count (assuming you are of legal age, of couse)? Im sure they will try to throw as many people into the student category as possible in order to avoid paying.

I graduated high school but never attended a college or university. If someone asks me if I ever went to college, of course I am going to say no! Its NOT the same thing.

This group is SOOOOO particular about docs and everything matching up exactly and making sure everyting is scanned PERFECTLY. No room for error at all. Yet, they decide to lump everyone they can into this term. Vague? No room for error on the players part right?

 

[Da_Gambla]

I understand all these arguments. I happen to agree with them. If I was running a not-recommended list, this casino group would be on it. I stated in a previous post that I wouldn't recommend them. All these arguments about how stupid this clause is, and how weakly it is applied are all extremely valid.

However, this is a business entity and they have the right to include or exclude anyone they want from their business. This is a great topic for another thread, but it's not the issue here. The issue here is simply, should this player be paid?

As some lament about 'how many other have been burned by this', or how this casino 'wins' every time it happens, I ask this one question as simply as possible:

How can a casino deny paying a student, if that student reads the T&C's, and doesn't deposit there to begin with?

- Keith