Hey 3Dice, how random is this?

[MotorCity68]

Let me start out by saying that 3dice is the only online casino where I play. We have a pretty good player / casino relationship. I don't bitch when I lose and they don't give me a hassle cashing out when I win. So far so good.

I also have a favorite game, Medieval Moolah, which I probably spend ninety percent of my time there playing. Which means that I've probably amassed a couple hundred thousand spins on it.

Now some of you may disagree with me here, but I think you get a real feel for a game after spending that much time on it, and lately something doesn't feel right.

I've noticed that there are a ton of "near misses" now. Combinations that seem less plausible than actually hitting a one in a million payout. A key and four suns on an oddball payline that ends up paying twenty to one. Tons of monster five of a kinds with the middle column just one position off. Now I realize that "near misses" are commonplace online and in the B&M casinos, they are supposed to make us think that we're just about to hit something huge and keep playing. Fair enough, we know your all about making a profit, but it's never been this blatantly obvious (in my opinion) at 3Dice.

Now, so you guys don't think I'm just another sore loser who had a bad run and is trying to get some payback, I would like to present you with some hard data.

Anybody who has played Medieval Moolah knows that the sun is a wild/multiplier symbol. Getting a few of these in the right place usually pays better than the bonus round, the "RIGHT PLACE" being the operative phrase here.

Here are the results of 1120 spins and where the wild symbols fell:

First column: 58 times
Second column: 42 times
Third column: 117 times
Fourth column: 222 times
Fifth column: 177 times

So for me, i was over FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT more likely to catch a wild symbol on the forth column, than on the first or second, where it obviously does a lot more good. That goes far far beyond random deviation.

I pondered for over a week whether or not I would post this, because I truly enjoy playing at 3Dice. I honestly hope that they might have an explanation for this.

So 3Dice, you know who I am.
This session ended at 9:11 Eastern standard time on March 2nd, with a balance of $62.87.

I'm hoping that you'll take the time to respond to this post.

Thanks

 

[petro]

That looks pretty normal to me.

All that it means is just that reel 3 & 4 contain more wild symbols than the other reels.

OP will find this is pretty standard for most slots.

 

[MotorCity68]

Well, your the first to respond, but if the general consensus is that this is all perfectly normal, then I guess I'll be sending Enzo a gift basket.

I'll wait and see.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Repro]

Well, your the first to respond, but if the general consensus is that this is all perfectly normal, then I guess I'll be sending Enzo a gift basket.

I'll wait and see.

Thanks for your response.

I know what you mean and it can be quite annoying sometimes. Same things happens to me a lot with Payola, wilds on reels 3,4 and 5, but no payouts because of a discoball (need 3 for the bonusgame) at the wrong position on reels 1 or 2.

Guess it's just "in the game", because i stilll cashout often there.

BTW i got a $120 hit with Medieval on a $0,60 spin a few days ago. Got a looooooooot of suns

 

[petro]

If MotorCity68 is interested he can view some reel layouts here;

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[rainmaker]

Hello.

Yes Petro is right. It looks quite normal.

Randomness does not mean that all of the wheels contains the same amount of wild symbols. Games are designed from a mathematic algorithm that will give the players a certain RTP% in the very long run. How the wheels are put together with symbols are of course a part of this calculation.

But I think it's great that you decided to write this post. You ask a fair question. I'm no math genius, so someone else will probably supplement this.

 

[jstrike]

Gotta agree with Petro.

The way slots work, both in b&m casinos and online (in theory), is that reels are weighted. What this meant originally was if you had a mechanical slot machine, you might have like 10 items on the reels, but inside each reel is basically a system of gears that makes it more likely to land on one item than on another. Take that up to the electronic level, and what it means is that on reel 1 the wild might be 1/10th as likely as it is on reel 4.

If you're designing a slot, you take into account the weights of paying items and wilds...and if you're designing a multiline slot, you might have to also take into account which reel those weights go on, although usually that doesn't make much difference unless certain reels have more lines intersecting on a single item than other reels do, or unless the slot is counting from left to right or right to left only. Overall, when the slot is designed, it should be done in a way where taking all those wild weights into account the average expected payout is what you publish to the customer. Most casinos don't actually publish the actual weighting of the reels, so you don't actually know what your true odds are, and even if you knew that you'd have to count on the RNG [code that interprets it] being honest and random. But a wild being more likely to come up on one reel as opposed to another is standard for most slots.

The last slot I designed has a 1-weight wild on the first 4 reels and no wild on the 5th, because the wilds work with whatever's there but don't do anything on their own, and because they potentially count twice (like, you can have 3 and 3 on a 5-reel slot if two pairs share a single wild). But other items on the reels have weights ranging from 1 all the way up to 10-times more likely than a wild. The expected payback is still 94.5%. So...I'd say look at your actual win/loss ratio over the course of a few thousand spins, not what each reel actually ends up at, to determine the fairness of the machine.

 

[Kimsterfl]

That looks pretty normal to me.

All that it means is just that reel 3 & 4 contain more wild symbols than the other reels.

OP will find this is pretty standard for most slots.

Hi Petro,

I often play at 3Dice. I have not personally noticed more wild symbols appearing on reels 4 and 5 (you said 3 and 4, I think you meant to say 4 and 5), in any of the non-classic slot games there, albeit I don't write down the results of each spin.

I believe you would need to find an average based on many thousands of spins and not just several hundred.

Good luck!

Kim aka Wings

 

[weplant]

Let me start out by saying that 3dice is the only online casino where I play. We have a pretty good player / casino relationship. I don't bitch when I lose and they don't give me a hassle cashing out when I win. So far so good.

I also have a favorite game, Medieval Moolah, which I probably spend ninety percent of my time there playing. Which means that I've probably amassed a couple hundred thousand spins on it.

Now some of you may disagree with me here, but I think you get a real feel for a game after spending that much time on it, and lately something doesn't feel right.

I've noticed that there are a ton of "near misses" now. Combinations that seem less plausible than actually hitting a one in a million payout. A key and four suns on an oddball payline that ends up paying twenty to one. Tons of monster five of a kinds with the middle column just one position off. Now I realize that "near misses" are commonplace online and in the B&M casinos, they are supposed to make us think that we're just about to hit something huge and keep playing. Fair enough, we know your all about making a profit, but it's never been this blatantly obvious (in my opinion) at 3Dice.

Now, so you guys don't think I'm just another sore loser who had a bad run and is trying to get some payback, I would like to present you with some hard data.

Anybody who has played Medieval Moolah knows that the sun is a wild/multiplier symbol. Getting a few of these in the right place usually pays better than the bonus round, the "RIGHT PLACE" being the operative phrase here.

Here are the results of 1120 spins and where the wild symbols fell:

First column: 58 times
Second column: 42 times
Third column: 117 times
Fourth column: 222 times
Fifth column: 177 times

So for me, i was over FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT more likely to catch a wild symbol on the forth column, than on the first or second, where it obviously does a lot more good. That goes far far beyond random deviation.

I pondered for over a week whether or not I would post this, because I truly enjoy playing at 3Dice. I honestly hope that they might have an explanation for this.

So 3Dice, you know who I am.
This session ended at 9:11 Eastern standard time on March 2nd, with a balance of $62.87.

I'm hoping that you'll take the time to respond to this post.

Thanks

I have to say that I am also a Moohlah junkie..Everyone knows that I am always chasing the suns...I thought I was crazy, but also noticed a big change in the last month or so..I know it is a high variance game, but I would at least have some good hits...I have not a decent hit with a sun forever...
Also noticed I would have 4 or 5 suns scattered about and thought , oh good here comes a good one and would land up with 16.00...

I also love 3Dice, I love the customer support...I thank you for bringing it up and lets keep our fingers crossed that we will see the suns paying again....

 

[weplant]

I am sitting here playing and thinking about my response, while it is true I have been in a real slump at 3Dice, I have realized I am sucking everywhere...I can't get a santa or a deck the hall symbol ..Maybe it is the gambling gods telling me to slow down....

 

[pokerdan]

I also know how you feel. i can't count number of times i have got two of the bonus round symbols on the first 2 paylines on the TUT slot and never hit a third after hitting the first 2. I have gotten the bonus game quite a few times, but whenever they pop up on the first 2 reels i know I am not getting the bonus game. I had a horrible night last night. Played at MG, 3dice and also RTG,, blew 330 bucks and not one bonus game on any of the sites at all. Sometimes you can just feel your not gonna be lucky when your playing and it's time to take a break. There is no way you can honestly be a consistent winner playing slots, but if your not having fun i think it's harder to win. It's strange but i think when I am winning I feel way different than when I have losing sessions. Not just after i have lost, but when i first start a session. Sometimes I feel like I am not gonna have any luck and sure enough I lose 100%.

 

[3mptyseat]

Hi Petro,

I often play at 3Dice. I have not personally noticed more wild symbols appearing on reels 4 and 5 (you said 3 and 4, I think you meant to say 4 and 5), in any of the non-classic slot games there, albeit I don't write down the results of each spin.

I believe you would need to find an average based on many thousands of spins and not just several hundred.

Good luck!

Kim aka Wings

Really Wings? What games do u play? And ur right, the OP's sample is too small for analysis. I guess it depends on which games you frequent, bc I def. notice some patterns in some games...

In the Squirrel/Crystal-Meth/Swiss Army Knife/Yodeler game, there definitely seems to be more wilds in reels 4 and 5. My feelings suggest the same 'weighting' on wilds in reels 4 and 5 for the game Payola... These games seem to include the 'scatter' symbol appearing more often in the early reels than in the late ones...

But in games like the one Dino/Rocks/Petrified Wood/Butterflys it doesnt seem to me that there is more wilds in any particular reel.
I also 'sense' that wilds are not more common in the last two reels on Moolah than in the first 2...

But again, I have no 'reel strips' and ledger stats to base this on...So this is based upon my recollections...Mos Def. interesting thread though...Well Done!

Are there any verified reel strips for 3dice?

 

[Kimsterfl]

My two personal favorites are Tut and Indy.

 

[3Dice]

First column: 58 times
Second column: 42 times
Third column: 117 times
Fourth column: 222 times
Fifth column: 177 times

Hi MotorCity68,

Videoslot games are never designed with 5 of the same reels. Quite often, not even the number of symbols on each reel will be the same. Designing the reel layout, reel length and how many of each symbol go on each reel is a fundamental tool in slot design - and imperative to making a game fun, exciting and fair.

For medieval moolah, the first and second reel both contain 1 wild, the third reel contains 2, the fourth reel has 4 wilds and the 5th reel has 3 wilds.

Many wilds on the 4th and 5th reel mean nothing more or less than the designer chosing for a scenario where wilds complete paylines more often than start them. This technique gives the wilds more of a 'boost' feeling as opposed to a 'always something' feeling. A mindset that is reinforced by the cumulative multiplying effect of the wilds in moolah.

The net result of this design choice is that in medieval moolah, winning combinations with wilds occur less often, but represent bigger payouts. (many of the winning combinations with wilds will be 4 or 5 symbols long - since most of the wilds are on reels 4 and 5)

If the designer had wished to design a lower variance game, he could have put more wilds on reels 1 and 2, and less on 4 and 5 .. although most likely he would have had to drop the cumulative multiplier in that scenario to keep the total RTP around 95%. With more wilds on reel 1 and 2, you would see more win combinations with wilds, but they would also most often only be 3 symbols long, and on average pay a lot less.

The combination paytable / division on the reels is what creates the feel of a wild symbol for a slot game. For moolah, we tried to design an explosive and powerfull wild - in fact - that game is all about the wilds and in total the combinations with wilds pay more than the bonus round does (which is uncommon in a slot - and the reason some people really like moolah )

I'll be looking forward to that gift basket

Cheers,

Enzo

 

[weedebs]

3dice Enzo

I am sorry but this has nothing to do with the above - but i didnt know how to get this in somewhere, enzo can you please contact me urgently

 

[MotorCity68]

Makes perfect sense to me now. I guess all I can say in my defense is that I had never noticed the discrepancy before, it felt as though something had changed.

Sorry Enzo, for the accusatory tone of my post.

 

[LHofsdal]

Makes perfect sense to me now. I guess all I can say in my defense is that I had never noticed the discrepancy before, it felt as though something had changed.

Sorry Enzo, for the accusatory tone of my post.

Not many posters would have said they were sorry, it is nice to see that someone can admit their mistake.

Thanks Enzo for coming in and clarifing things.

All the best,
LH

 

[jod5413]

Really Wings? What games do u play? And ur right, the OP's sample is too small for analysis. I guess it depends on which games you frequent, bc I def. notice some patterns in some games...

In the Squirrel/Crystal-Meth/Swiss Army Knife/Yodeler game, there definitely seems to be more wilds in reels 4 and 5. My feelings suggest the same 'weighting' on wilds in reels 4 and 5 for the game Payola... These games seem to include the 'scatter' symbol appearing more often in the early reels than in the late ones...

But in games like the one Dino/Rocks/Petrified Wood/Butterflys it doesnt seem to me that there is more wilds in any particular reel.
I also 'sense' that wilds are not more common in the last two reels on Moolah than in the first 2...

But again, I have no 'reel strips' and ledger stats to base this on...So this is based upon my recollections...Mos Def. interesting thread though...Well Done!

Are there any verified reel strips for 3dice?

I never thought of that slot that way, but you are pretty much spot on!!

Not many posters would have said they were sorry, it is nice to see that someone can admit their mistake.

I do not agree. Just here alone the majority of members would say sorry. We are a staunch bunch.

Thanks Enzo for coming in and clarifing things.

All the best,
LH