guts casino complaint

[interlog]

Hi interlog,

I totally understand your thoughts about this. However if you are in the UK, you absolutely by law need to provide full documentation (even if you are not closed, you will be shut if you don't send it in within 72 hours....)

It's nothing personal - all casinos operating in the UK are nowadays obliged to do this.

Ping me on PM if you need

Yits

Hi,

I sent you a PM but I still fail to understand why you require a bank statement in order to do the refund

 

[dunover]

Wow surprised to see another self exclusion nightmare thread especially with a such a respected brand

Really need to see more transparency in the terms and conditions on MT Secure trade sites and would hate to see brands such as Guts and Rizk in the same boat as EveryMatrix/888.

In regards to the OP, if she is really 64 years old (Guts verified as she said) and hasn't broken any rules but suffering because of a BetSpin error, I think it would be a nice gesture to pay her full balance.

Unfortunately, it appears so. Guts and Betspin for example don't jointly SE you for the longest term, I.E. together. If you SE for 6 months at say Betspin, and 12 at Guts you can log in to your Betspin after 6 months but not Guts.

Do the same respectively at say Whitebet and Redbet, you'll be unable to log-in at Whitebet after 6 months as you've still got 6 months to go at Redbet.

BEWARE!! You can open an account and deposit at Rizk while you are SE'd from either or both of Betspin and Guts - they can refuse payment if you win. DO NOT GET CAUGHT OUT!

 

[Tirilej]

That wasn't so good. I hope they at least don't send out any promotions or tell you that the account is open again.

I hope I wont ever again hear about old members here that should know better, having self excluded for any other reason than that they feel they need to stop playing.
Never again!

 

[interlog]

That wasn't so good. I hope they at least don't send out any promotions or tell you that the account is open again.

I hope I wont ever again hear about old members here that should know better, having self excluded for any other reason than that they feel they need to stop playing.
Never again!

I agree and I have learned my lesson from it.

But having said that, the casino should share some responsibility as well by:

(1) making it clearer before the self exclusion is confirmed
(2) doing a diligent check when an account is opened because they quite clearly have access to all accounts within the casino group as I experienced myself last night when chatting to the Rizk operator who had visibility over my Guts account

 

[taximania123]

me too

I thought it was just me in this kind of situation , my account are all showing self excluded now but the chat operative was only asked for account closure ...maybe there needs to be some distinction between self exclusion and taking a break or closing account (but it has been explained to me that this is awkward).
I have been waiting a few days for a resolution but i'm sure it will be sorted soon....i had to play at thrills today haha and i wonder if i will get the chance to spin the captains wheel again .

 

[dunover]

I thought it was just me in this kind of situation , my account are all showing self excluded now but the chat operative was only asked for account closure ...maybe there needs to be some distinction between self exclusion and taking a break or closing account (but it has been explained to me that this is awkward).
I have been waiting a few days for a resolution but i'm sure it will be sorted soon....i had to play at thrills today haha and i wonder if i will get the chance to spin the captains wheel again .

it's very easy to implement - most sites now have a 'take a break' menu and a SE menu. But it comes down to the old chestnut of some licensees not exercising due diligence and cross-referencing signees. Like EM.

 

[ritae]

Thank you kindly for your reply yits. As you mentioned in point 1 of your reply I am not at fault here as I have shown evidence of a staff member providing incorrect information.

I have spoke to elsebeth on guts chat tonight and she sees no correspondence entered into my complainant still and no withdrawals have been requested. I apologise for being persistent but can I request my balance of 330 to be sent back to my card as quick as it is possible.

thank you, rita

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[taximania123]

Hi Rita,

Sadly we are bound by regulations and cannot re-open your account, even if we would like to in light of your explanation.

3 things:

1. You are not required to self-exclude in order to close your account - if you were informed as such, that's an error on our part if it's accurate and we apologize. An agent can block your account for you if you so wish. If anyone tells you otherwise, then get back to me.

2. We are taking your feedback seriously - the signposting prior to self-excluding should also be clearer regarding the sharing of a license. It's in process, may take a little while but it will get there.

3. I am checking what shall be done regarding the bonus funds. In whatever case, your deposit will be refunded no matter what. I should have a reply tomorrow.

BR

Yits

Is the issue sorted ?
An agent closed my account for me and its still showing as selof exclusion ...so that route i no good . Did you receive your refund ?

 

[shewoff]

Wow is it me or did I just get smacked with a ruskie babes spam when I tried to read the Op.s chat with CS? Just a start to me as i.am not used to spam in a chat? Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff​

 

[Steviedoo]

Wow. Late to the party but I think I closed my guts account along with several others that I never played at about a year ago when I really was new at this.....now I don't remember which ones but there were a few.

No one on those chats told me it was self exclusion. I don't need to self exclude just wasn't playing there anymore and some of them were so bad at customer service...I demanded they close my account.

Well now I'm worried I will be playing at their sister casinos one day cuz we all try new casinos and then this will happen....not happy.


Maybe these rules do not apply to cdns? Wishful thinking

 

[Guts - Yits]

Guys

Im in today, will look at this in about 2 hours after getting all the daily credits sorted and will sift through every complaint and organise them internally on a spreadsheet - there is a lot going on here and it will take me time to link every one internally, so that I give correct answers to each specific gripe - when doing it on the fly it is hard to not to give the right answer to the right person where applicable and I might sow extra confusion.

Yits

 

[nutnut]

Feel sorry for the casino, if people have issues they shouldn't be gambling AT ALL, period....no one ever takes responsability anymore for their actions. If you have ever self excluded then it is on you the player to check imo.

This taking a break and coming back is no different than a alcoholic taking a break then coming back thinking he can control his drink, it's not on the pub to check every customer whether he orig gave up drinking.

I don't play at GUTS, but they deserve no hassle for this.

 

[Tirilej]

Feel sorry for the casino, if people have issues they shouldn't be gambling AT ALL, period....no one ever takes responsability anymore for their actions. If you have ever self excluded then it is on you the player to check imo.

This taking a break and coming back is no different than a alcoholic taking a break then coming back thinking he can control his drink, it's not on the pub to check every customer whether he orig gave up drinking.

I don't play at GUTS, but they deserve no hassle for this.

And I believe there are things you haven't understood with this

How are gamblers to know that the word Self exclusion mean that they have a gambling problem? I had no clue when I started gambling many years ago, and the meaning of the word have been discussed a lot here over the years.

Besides that, the word don't even exist in Swedish. They are using several different words for it in different casinos, and that is just for my language.
Then we have the fact that there are different rules depending on where you live.

Maybe we shouldn't blame the casinos for all of the mess, but certainly not all players either.
We just have to work together to try and avoid misunderstandings in the future.

 

[taximania123]

Feel sorry for the casino, if people have issues they shouldn't be gambling AT ALL, period....no one ever takes responsability anymore for their actions. If you have ever self excluded then it is on you the player to check imo.

This taking a break and coming back is no different than a alcoholic taking a break then coming back thinking he can control his drink, it's not on the pub to check every customer whether he orig gave up drinking.

I don't play at GUTS, but they deserve no hassle for this.

yes that makes sense ...you have a heavy night drinking , pop in your local for a roast and tell the landlord you will have a diet coke . following week you pop in and order a pint ...get out of my pub he says ...you are an alcoholic and i will never serve you again ...he knows this because of your diet coke order ...makes perfect sense
We could apply these rules to all walks of life ...had a bit too much food last night ...must be obese etc etc

 

[mac72]

Feel sorry for the casino, if people have issues they shouldn't be gambling AT ALL, period....no one ever takes responsability anymore for their actions. If you have ever self excluded then it is on you the player to check imo.

This taking a break and coming back is no different than a alcoholic taking a break then coming back thinking he can control his drink, it's not on the pub to check every customer whether he orig gave up drinking.

I don't play at GUTS, but they deserve no hassle for this.

Sorry but the only issue the OP had was not related to any type of gambling problem. Its obviously time consuming for all casinos but thats the rules they agreed to operate under and i'm pretty sure if they put the effort in they can come up with a system that isn't so labour intensive to deal with it.
You also have to remember that when SE was first offered people were not well versed in the implications of it.Effectively if you wished to close a casino account with a particular operator permanently you were directed to SE.
And that is why the "take a break" option is so useful.It has nothing to do with Gambling issues, I for instance use it at some of the Casinos that don't pay over weekends if i've had a nice hit on a friday night / saturday morning.It works effectively as a flushing option for the withdrawal with no reversal option as once the TAB is over the funds have been paid.

 

[nutnut]

My point is, these people only pop up when either

1) They have won and know they been self excluded elsewhere but feel if they moan enough they might get paid
2) Or they lost and know they self excluded so feel they have a right to claim everything back

The system is open to abuse from the players end, when it's the player who in the past has excluded himself. If you have openly excluded yourself in the past you should not be gambling at all, the whole point of it is because you have no control, normal gamblers don't need to self exclude, they just don't log in.

Reason this annoys me is these people are same ones that will get gambling restricted for us all in the end.

Not meaning to sound harsh, but if you can't control something stay away from it for good.

 

[mac72]

My point is, these people only pop up when either

1) They have won and know they been self excluded elsewhere but feel if they moan enough they might get paid
2) Or they lost and know they self excluded so feel they have a right to claim everything back

The system is open to abuse from the players end, when it's the player who in the past has excluded himself. If you have openly excluded yourself in the past you should not be gambling at all, the whole point of it is because you have no control, normal gamblers don't need to self exclude, they just don't log in.

Reason this annoys me is these people are same ones that will get gambling restricted for us all in the end.

Not meaning to sound harsh, but if you can't control something stay away from it for good.

Yes there are people who abuse that system as there are casinos who no doubt abuse it as well.However in this particular instance it seems fairly clear from the chat transcript that the OP just wanted to close his account and was specific for the reasons why which weren't addiction related. Unfortunately he was directed down the SE route by the chat (and this would not be unique to Guts) and probably should of got an answer like: "Ok i will close your account now and should you wish to reopen at a later stage please come back to us and we will facilitate that"

 

[dunover]

My point is, these people only pop up when either

1) They have won and know they been self excluded elsewhere but feel if they moan enough they might get paid
2) Or they lost and know they self excluded so feel they have a right to claim everything back

The system is open to abuse from the players end, when it's the player who in the past has excluded himself. If you have openly excluded yourself in the past you should not be gambling at all, the whole point of it is because you have no control, normal gamblers don't need to self exclude, they just don't log in.

Reason this annoys me is these people are same ones that will get gambling restricted for us all in the end.

Not meaning to sound harsh, but if you can't control something stay away from it for good.

Not strictly true, a generalization at best.

I close accounts/lock them short-term if I am going away, am awaiting a w/d and have no intention of playing there until completed. I also have many accounts and play them in a cycle, i.e. will play at 5 or 6 this month, close the rest for 1 month and so-on.

I am 99.9% trusting of casino security BUT I have had my gambling e-mail which has only ever been given to casinos passed/sold on as is obvious by the spam it gets both casino and non-casino related, including 'dunover, takeitinallholes wants to be your friend!' and 'this stock is going to sky-rocket' plus all the other affiliate crap.

Therefore I don't completely trust security. I am 99.9% confident of no dodgy activity/hacks if I simply don't play but also don't TAB; I'm 100% confident if I do.....

P.S. If you were anywhere near right and ALL closures of accounts were (as you allege) due to not being in control, then why do the various LA's have a distinction between TAB and SE???

 

[interlog]

My point is, these people only pop up when either

1) They have won and know they been self excluded elsewhere but feel if they moan enough they might get paid
2) Or they lost and know they self excluded so feel they have a right to claim everything back

The system is open to abuse from the players end, when it's the player who in the past has excluded himself. If you have openly excluded yourself in the past you should not be gambling at all, the whole point of it is because you have no control, normal gamblers don't need to self exclude, they just don't log in.

Reason this annoys me is these people are same ones that will get gambling restricted for us all in the end.

Not meaning to sound harsh, but if you can't control something stay away from it for good.

You are generalising way too much. I contributed to this topic (and in all fairness both casinos effected are now refunding my deposits) but neither your points 1 or 2 apply. I self excluded from one casino for another reason not realising the effect it had on other casinos within that group. I know now, but like many hundreds/thousands of "inexperienced" gamblers I didn't know at the time.

Yes, some will abuse but don't tar everybody with the same brush.

 

[Guts - Yits]

Hello intelog,

Although you are completely correct about due diligence, I would like to publicly stress that our agents do not have cross-brand access to individual accounts. The operator might have contacted the Guts support team, or our account security temam to gain insight at best.

And internal investigation to myriad aspects of this thread is underway, I assure you and all the others involved.

BR

Y

I agree and I have learned my lesson from it.

But having said that, the casino should share some responsibility as well by:

(1) making it clearer before the self exclusion is confirmed
(2) doing a diligent check when an account is opened because they quite clearly have access to all accounts within the casino group as I experienced myself last night when chatting to the Rizk operator who had visibility over my Guts account

 

[Guts - Yits]

I agree with mac72s statement, this is something we shall be re-addressing amongst other issues.

Yes there are people who abuse that system as there are casinos who no doubt abuse it as well.However in this particular instance it seems fairly clear from the chat transcript that the OP just wanted to close his account and was specific for the reasons why which weren't addiction related. Unfortunately he was directed down the SE route by the chat (and this would not be unique to Guts) and probably should of got an answer like: "Ok i will close your account now and should you wish to reopen at a later stage please come back to us and we will facilitate that"

 

[Guts - Yits]

Hello Rita,

This is still under internal process - but I cannot promise openly that the entire sum be sent - the £100 deposit most certainly, but you were in the middle of wagering a reload, and those funds were still bound to wagering. This is not meant to offend you, but to make clear on thread that technically those funds were temporary winnings pending completion of wagering requirements - there was no assurance that these funds would remain at the same level - it would be just as possible to lose them as to multiply the winnings prior to completion of said requirements.

Whatever happens, your deposit and attached fee will be refunded - the otehr aspect described above is still pending.

I do most sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused.

Yits

Thank you kindly for your reply yits. As you mentioned in point 1 of your reply I am not at fault here as I have shown evidence of a staff member providing incorrect information.

I have spoke to elsebeth on guts chat tonight and she sees no correspondence entered into my complainant still and no withdrawals have been requested. I apologise for being persistent but can I request my balance of 330 to be sent back to my card as quick as it is possible.

thank you, rita

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[Guts - Yits]

The reason for the distinction is the length of time I would assume. I agree it might be a bit confusing, we are discussing internally - but there is nothing wrong with the underlying structure of the demands of the license. They are in fact designed to protect the customer if he/she feels vulnerable as a result of playing with real money.

However, as repeatedly mentioned, we are looking into revamping the signposting internally. I mean this - there are no personal gripes not overarching evil plans here from my part - please do not assume that we are trying to scam anyone.

Not strictly true, a generalization at best.

I close accounts/lock them short-term if I am going away, am awaiting a w/d and have no intention of playing there until completed. I also have many accounts and play them in a cycle, i.e. will play at 5 or 6 this month, close the rest for 1 month and so-on.

I am 99.9% trusting of casino security BUT I have had my gambling e-mail which has only ever been given to casinos passed/sold on as is obvious by the spam it gets both casino and non-casino related, including 'dunover, takeitinallholes wants to be your friend!' and 'this stock is going to sky-rocket' plus all the other affiliate crap.

Therefore I don't completely trust security. I am 99.9% confident of no dodgy activity/hacks if I simply don't play but also don't TAB; I'm 100% confident if I do.....

P.S. If you were anywhere near right and ALL closures of accounts were (as you allege) due to not being in control, then why do the various LA's have a distinction between TAB and SE???

 

[dunover]

Yes. I apologize for my usage of the expression 'SE scam' in relation to Guts' License. In my irritation at my issues I neglected to remember all the qualities and especially integrity that led me and many of the CAG to elect Guts 'Casino Of The Year' 2015....

I do however believe 100% that when relating to EM that 'scam' is correct. It's at present a temporary recent issue due to opening a new property in relation to Guts.

But at EM it has been going on far too long, and also given the number of casinos sharing their license HAS to have had significant pecuniary benefits for them.

So I respectfully request other posters here don't make my mistake and compare this short-term issue to EM. The difference will no doubt become apparent over the following days...

 

[interlog]

Almost a week later, and I am still waiting a refund from Guts casino

Whether this is acceptable I will let you judge over.