General Election 2024 Thread

[lockinlove]

Stevie Wonder can see

 

[mack341]

Crime rates at Notting Hill are statistically low, and not really any better or worse than any other similar size gathering of people at a single event.

It's nothing but trivia anyway, you're all endlessly circling around the same old 'othering' arguments that just saw the Tories get destroyed in a general election and had Farage's Reform Party hit its same old massive peak support (LOL) of around 15% of votes, returning just five MPs, 20% of whom have actually served prison time for violence against women. There's a crime statistic!

It's the same crap that'll see Trump fail in the States and Harris returned as President, as those pesky liberals (spoiler alert, we're in the majority) continue to spread their hideous disease of, erm, tolerance and inclusivity, the bastards!

Anyway, carry on, much sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Personally I'm far more interested in seeing what Labour actually do in government, and most notably where they go on wealth inequality. So far, the signs aren't good.

I'm disappointed Chop I'd have thought you'd have been at least 20 times running

Oh well I'm sure throb's been a few times, and the other folk who enjoy ethnic food and immigration will have definitely been, because if they haven't then one could only conclude their love of diversity is a bit shallow, and given a chance to embrace it for real vote no thanks

Edit: I think it's the biggest street carnival in europe too, so multicultural proponents need a good (non discriminatory) reason why they haven't attended.

 

[geordiecolin]

I have seen a few clips of Stevie seeming to show he can see.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I really don't see all the furore about the Notting Hill Carnival and its supposed 'crime' reports.

fornicating in the street, lawn-defecation

Sounds like the usual Saturday night

 

[geordiecolin]

Crime rates at Notting Hill are statistically low, and not really any better or worse than any other similar size gathering of people at a single event.

It's nothing but trivia anyway, you're all endlessly circling around the same old 'othering' arguments that just saw the Tories get destroyed in a general election and had Farage's Reform Party hit its same old massive peak support (LOL) of around 15% of votes, returning just five MPs, 20% of whom have actually served prison time for violence against women. There's a crime statistic!

It's the same crap that'll see Trump fail in the States and Harris returned as President, as those pesky liberals (spoiler alert, we're in the majority) continue to spread their hideous disease of, erm, tolerance and inclusivity, the bastards!

Anyway, carry on, much sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Personally I'm far more interested in seeing what Labour actually do in government, and most notably where they go on wealth inequality. So far, the signs aren't good.

Something to get your teeth into. "You will own nothing and be happy"

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[ChopleyIOM]

Something to get your teeth into. "You will own nothing and be happy"

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Good. This is absolutely the nettle that needs to be grasped and is the only way that the massive entrenched (and worsening) inequality in society is going to start to be reversed.

No one's talking about turfing granny out of her house or any of the other histrionic nonsense that The Torygraph is peddling, inheritance tax is only paid by the top 4% of estates anyway.

The LSE’s wealth commission produced a report that shows a tax on wealth above £2m, charged at 1% a year for five years, would bring in £80bn. (How many folks here are rocking wealth above £2m? This is the big trick played on people in these debates, making it sound like everyone's about to get a whopping tax bill.)

Our tax systems are very good at taxing income, but terrible at taxing wealth. Wealth begets more wealth and over time, basically locks ordinary folks out of owning the essentials of life, housing being the most obvious example. It also drains money out of every strata of society, including government, as the ultra-rich accumulate more and more at the top, to the detriment of everyone else.

The single biggest indicator for property ownership in the UK in the year 2024 is the wealth of the family you're born into, it's not a case of 'punishing hard work' or 'a tax on success', we're basically down to a lucky accident of birth being a precursor to the basic securities of life at this point.

Some modest amount of redistribution of wealth would be a very positive change. The rich can still be rich, they can still be really rich, just a little bit less so.

 

[dunover]

The final sickening toll of the Notting Hill Carnage:

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If this wasn't a 'celebration' of multiculturalism, it would have been banned years ago on the grounds of disorder, safety and pollution.

 

[TheAddict]

You're all wrong who live there! What I read on twitter about a place I'm not living in, is right!


How do you bother reading it all, let alone responsing to this shite.

 

[mack341]

Good. This is absolutely the nettle that needs to be grasped and is the only way that the massive entrenched (and worsening) inequality in society is going to start to be reversed.

No one's talking about turfing granny out of her house or any of the other histrionic nonsense that The Torygraph is peddling, inheritance tax is only paid by the top 4% of estates anyway.

The LSE’s wealth commission produced a report that shows a tax on wealth above £2m, charged at 1% a year for five years, would bring in £80bn. (How many folks here are rocking wealth above £2m? This is the big trick played on people in these debates, making it sound like everyone's about to get a whopping tax bill.)

Our tax systems are very good at taxing income, but terrible at taxing wealth. Wealth begets more wealth and over time, basically locks ordinary folks out of owning the essentials of life, housing being the most obvious example. It also drains money out of every strata of society, including government, as the ultra-rich accumulate more and more at the top, to the detriment of everyone else.

The single biggest indicator for property ownership in the UK in the year 2024 is the wealth of the family you're born into, it's not a case of 'punishing hard work' or 'a tax on success', we're basically down to a lucky accident of birth being a precursor to the basic securities of life at this point.

Some modest amount of redistribution of wealth would be a very positive change. The rich can still be rich, they can still be really rich, just a little bit less so.

Michael Caine moved to Hollywood because he was getting screwed by income tax, something like 90% for his bracket in the 70s. He only came back when Maggie reduced it to a more sensible level.

You must've heard of the brain drain as well.

The govt wastes tonnes of money, why should it just be able to stick on a legal balaclava and demand people hand more over. Around me ex council houses command prices around 400k, so a 2m valuation would likely catch all sorts of retired people living off modest pensions.

What are they meant to do, remortgage to raise some money for this wealth tax, or sell up and move out of a loved house. Then possibly the thing you've mentioned yourself would happen, the even richer would benefit from snapping up these desirable properties at sell quick prices.

Footballers on 300k a week would seem a better target, unless they do a lineker and find ways to avoid paying tax.

The whole financial system is very precarious, so you have to be very careful when looking at ways of increasing the govt's tax yield, it could easily cause the opposite effect and then be hard to reverse back to the previous status quo.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Michael Caine moved to Hollywood because he was getting screwed by income tax, something like 90% for his bracket in the 70s. He only came back when Maggie reduced it to a more sensible level.

You must've heard of the brain drain as well.

The govt wastes tonnes of money, why should it just be able to stick on a legal balaclava and demand people hand more over. Around me ex council houses command prices around 400k, so a 2m valuation would likely catch all sorts of retired people living off modest pensions.

What are they meant to do, remortgage to raise some money for this wealth tax, or sell up and move out of a loved house. Then possibly the thing you've mentioned yourself would happen, the even richer would benefit from snapping up these desirable properties at sell quick prices.

Footballers on 300k a week would seem a better target, unless they do a lineker and find ways to avoid paying tax.

The whole financial system is very precarious, so you have to be very careful when looking at ways of increasing the govt's tax yield, it could easily cause the opposite effect and then be hard to reverse back to the previous status quo.

That's why the conversation needs to move to being about wealth taxes rather than income taxes, income taxes are already high enough.

Rich people can huff and puff all they want but at the end of the day they can't take their assets with them, like when Roman Abramovich got sanctioned, he couldn't put Chelsea football club in a bag and take it with him on the plane.

Graduates entering the workplace and earning enough to pay their student loans back can find themselves with an overall tax burden of 55%, and we're not talking about them earning megabucks to fall into that trap either.

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Against that backdrop, a wealth tax of 1% (or thereabouts) isn't really much of a big ask. There's no world where we should be crying rivers for very rich people being asked to contribute a bit more to the country they live in and reap such wealth and rewards from.

The Tories have broken Britain with fourteen years of disastrous misrule, and it now falls to Labour to try and pick up the pieces, a bit of redistribution would be a perfectly sensible place to start - so let's see what what the specifics of their plans actually are once announced.

 

[geordiecolin]

This dear lady will be hoping for good news on her inheritance tax.

 

[mack341]

That's why the conversation needs to move to being about wealth taxes rather than income taxes, income taxes are already high enough.

Rich people can huff and puff all they want but at the end of the day they can't take their assets with them, like when Roman Abramovich got sanctioned, he couldn't put Chelsea football club in a bag and take it with him on the plane.

Graduates entering the workplace and earning enough to pay their student loans back can find themselves with an overall tax burden of 55%, and we're not talking about them earning megabucks to fall into that trap either.

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View attachment 200377

Against that backdrop, a wealth tax of 1% (or thereabouts) isn't really much of a big ask. There's no world where we should be crying rivers for very rich people being asked to contribute a bit more to the country they live in and reap such wealth and rewards from.

The Tories have broken Britain with fourteen years of disastrous misrule, and it now falls to Labour to try and pick up the pieces, a bit of redistribution would be a perfectly sensible place to start - so let's see what what the specifics of their plans actually are once announced.

There's no way he/labour are going to do a wealth tax, 1% or not.

Maybe if we were at war (directly) they might. He seems to be struggling to get his covid money clawback plan up and running, wasn't he also going to set up 'energy uk' as well.

How would you even do a wealth tax, every person/family has to summit a declaration of their current wealth, then the govt look at it and send you out a pay plan?

Edit: Taxing amazon and the other massive firms on their uk profit would be a good start, instead of letting them funnel money around to low tax countries.

"As usual the accounts are legally compliant but opaque and lack the crucial information about intra-group transactions which enable the company to shift profits is not there," said Labour peer and emeritus professor of accounting at the University of Sheffield and University of Essex, Prem Sikka.

"Therefore it's impossible to know what their true economic profit is," Prof Sikka said.

Given the profits declared by competitors, Prof Sikka said Amazon's tax bill "seems very low", whereas, for retailers such as supermarket chains, tax bills as a proportion of sales were much higher."

 

[paul7388]

The countries fucked. Come budget everyone will get poorer. And does anyone really believe that once we take this hit again in a few years things will get better.

Then the knock on effects will really hit come April when Council tax , rents etc. Rise dramatically.

But feeling we will feel it more in Scotland than England as SNP here are totally arsing the country up.

NHS staff here are paid higher than England and got 2 really good pay rises recently. About 8% then another one all backdated. And now even tho they've recently had good pay rises the SNP are giving them another 5.5% payrise if accepted again backdated to April as theyvare proud that in Scotland they are better paid. Bin men and council workers also had decent pay rises. Threatened strikes and now got half decent offers which councils can't afford. SNP already says they need to cut other spending to fund this and its wiping the councils out. When no other sector is getting so much in payrises you can't keep giving money to same people when you haven't got the funds to cover it.

 

[dealer wins]

This guy nails it with the nasty, fascist Two Tier Keir.

 

[dealer wins]

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The countries fucked. Come budget everyone will get poorer. And does anyone really believe that once we take this hit again in a few years things will get better.

Then the knock on effects will really hit come April when Council tax , rents etc. Rise dramatically.

But feeling we will feel it more in Scotland than England as SNP here are totally arsing the country up.

NHS staff here are paid higher than England and got 2 really good pay rises recently. About 8% then another one all backdated. And now even tho they've recently had good pay rises the SNP are giving them another 5.5% payrise if accepted again backdated to April as theyvare proud that in Scotland they are better paid. Bin men and council workers also had decent pay rises. Threatened strikes and now got half decent offers which councils can't afford. SNP already says they need to cut other spending to fund this and its wiping the councils out. When no other sector is getting so much in payrises you can't keep giving money to same people when you haven't got the funds to cover it.

And it all comes back to the same question Paul, where's the money gone? Who's got it all?

The UK is a spectacularly wealthy country, the fifth richest country in the world, so why is everyone skint? Why is the government skint?

It's not immigrants, they're not rich. It's not the hotel bills for immigrants, or diversity trainers at the BBC, these are minor distractions, we're talking about hundreds of billions of pounds being hoovered up by the super-rich and ultra-rich, at the expense of everyone else - including the government.

Since the start of Covid alone in 2020, UK government debt has increased by eight hundred billion pounds, where's it all gone? Debt isn't money that doesn't exist, debt is owed to someone, someone is owed that eight hundred billion pounds. Someone has that eight hundred billion pounds as assets on their balance sheet.

Wealth inequality is what's killing the UK, or 'the country's fucked' as you put it, there's loads and loads and loads of money, the problem is that it's increasingly concentrated in the hands of a small number of unimaginably wealthy people at the top, and they are using that money to screw everyone else.

Until we start to fix that, then yes, the country really is fucked.

 

[lockinlove]

The final sickening toll of the Notting Hill Carnage:

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If this wasn't a 'celebration' of multiculturalism, it would have been banned years ago on the grounds of disorder, safety and pollution.

Hey this isnt a big deal. The politicians who have heavy security who carry fully automatic weapons and bullet proof vehicles told me everything is safe.

Accept them into your homes, take the locks off your doors. Hell take the doors of your homes and have a welcome sign on your front lawn. Dont be so racist! Id even say, let them sleep in the same bed as your wife!!! Be inclusive ffs!

 

[mack341]

It's not immigrants, they're not rich. It's not the hotel bills for immigrants, or diversity trainers at the BBC, these are minor distractions,

They're not minor, add in legal aid, housing and living costs, translators etc.. when they move out of the hotels and contest their application to remain.

Labour have said there is a 22b blackhole, it's not a one-off payment but will be there every year on the ins and outs balance sheet.

I daresay there are members of the times rich list who could contribute more, plus multinationals that choose where they pay the tax on profit earnt here.

But no labour will go after the little man, as he can't up and leave.

 

[mack341]

Just an add on, they're currently paying for 5,000 empty hotel beds on an ongoing basis as an excess strategy, and Chop thinks the govt's current immigration policy is a minor cost to the country




Edit: This is apparently from last year, but I highly doubt anything has changed, the civil servants in the clip are very adamant it must be done. Tossers, they've done nothing like this for homeless folk for decades.

 

[lockinlove]

Just an add on, they're currently paying for 5,000 empty hotel beds on an ongoing basis as an excess strategy, and Chop thinks the govt's current immigration policy is a minor cost to the country




Edit: This is apparently from last year, but I highly doubt anything has changed, the civil servants in the clip are very adamant it must be done. Tossers, they've done nothing like this for homeless folk for decades.

Has the UK not given France close to 1 billion dollars just to help them with their immigration?

Look at the research ..it says they spent 7 billion dollars in the past few years on asylum costs alone and is now over 3 billion per year.

Just an fyi on the government website it shows them paying 6 million pounds per day for hotel rooms alone

Once again, we arent supposed to use facts around here!!! We are supposed to close our eyes and yell at the sky

 

[ChopleyIOM]

They're not minor, add in legal aid, housing and living costs, translators etc.. when they move out of the hotels and contest their application to remain.

Labour have said there is a 22b blackhole, it's not a one-off payment but will be there every year on the ins and outs balance sheet.

I daresay there are members of the times rich list who could contribute more, plus multinationals that choose where they pay the tax on profit earnt here.

But no labour will go after the little man, as he can't up and leave.

Well let's see what's actually in the budget and judge them on their actions.

What isn't up for debate is that after 14 years of Tory fuck-ups, the country is in a very bad state, Starmer has been honest about there being a lot of a stuff that needs fixing, and that finances are tight. That's on the Tories, they had 14 years, and they royally fucked it.

During his speech yesterday Starmer said that those with the broadest shoulders will have to carry the heaviest burden, I await with interest to see if his actions match his words.

 

[dunover]

Well let's see what's actually in the budget and judge them on their actions.

What isn't up for debate is that after 14 years of Tory fuck-ups, the country is in a very bad state, Starmer has been honest about there being a lot of a stuff that needs fixing, and that finances are tight. That's on the Tories, they had 14 years, and they royally fucked it.

During his speech yesterday Starmer said that those with the broadest shoulders will have to carry the heaviest burden, I await with interest to see if his actions match his words.

Yeah, I see he started by punishing OAPs (we are told the majority of them don't vote Labour) by ensuring cold and misery throughout winter, the broad shoulders of vulnerable pensioners are first to lose out naturally.

What I can guarantee absolutely is that the state income of politicians will not be touched.

 

[geordiecolin]

Yeah, I see he started by punishing OAPs (we are told the majority of them don't vote Labour) by ensuring cold and misery throughout winter, the broad shoulders of vulnerable pensioners are first to lose out naturally.

What I can guarantee absolutely is that the state income of politicians will not be touched.

I hear that those old people are going to commit facebook and twitter post crimes in October to ensure that the government pay for their heating and food over the winter at his Majesties pleasure.

 

[geordiecolin]

 

[thr0b]

Yeah, I see he started by punishing OAPs (we are told the majority of them don't vote Labour) by ensuring cold and misery throughout winter, the broad shoulders of vulnerable pensioners are first to lose out naturally.

What I can guarantee absolutely is that the state income of politicians will not be touched.

Pensions have risen proportionately more than any other benefit over the last few years. And those that won’t get the payment are those who the benefits agencies deem have sufficient income from their pensions/other benefits already to pay it.

It’s not been removed. It’s means assessed.

And what’s the alternative? Something has to give somewhere. Why should it always be on the younger folk? It’s the older folks who voted Tory and got us into this in the first place.

 

[paul7388]

Pensions have risen proportionately more than any other benefit over the last few years. And those that won’t get the payment are those who the benefits agencies deem have sufficient income from their pensions/other benefits already to pay it.

It’s not been removed. It’s means assessed.

And what’s the alternative? Something has to give somewhere. Why should it always be on the younger folk? It’s the older folks who voted Tory and got us into this in the first place.

Maybe they would save billions then if they stopped giving all the ones on benefits the heating allowance and all the cost of living payments they have recieved in the last couple of years.

Why should a junkie or someone that can't be arsed working keep getting everything yet you think great take stuff away from pensioners.

 

[paul7388]

And it all comes back to the same question Paul, where's the money gone? Who's got it all?

The UK is a spectacularly wealthy country, the fifth richest country in the world, so why is everyone skint? Why is the government skint?

It's not immigrants, they're not rich. It's not the hotel bills for immigrants, or diversity trainers at the BBC, these are minor distractions, we're talking about hundreds of billions of pounds being hoovered up by the super-rich and ultra-rich, at the expense of everyone else - including the government.

Since the start of Covid alone in 2020, UK government debt has increased by eight hundred billion pounds, where's it all gone? Debt isn't money that doesn't exist, debt is owed to someone, someone is owed that eight hundred billion pounds. Someone has that eight hundred billion pounds as assets on their balance sheet.

Wealth inequality is what's killing the UK, or 'the country's fucked' as you put it, there's loads and loads and loads of money, the problem is that it's increasingly concentrated in the hands of a small number of unimaginably wealthy people at the top, and they are using that money to screw everyone else.

Until we start to fix that, then yes, the country really is fucked.

Wheres the money gone you ask. No idea where its all went.

But for a start there's £13 billion to Ukraine for a war they cannot win .

There's all the money on furlough payments for a lockdown you agreed with.

There's 10.3 million people not including pensioners on some sort of state benefits. The vast majority of those not including the pensioners recieved thousands in cost of living payments each . Then account for the cost of living payments to pensioners as well. That's not including the thousands to keep them all every month by the time they get their rent council tax and everything else paid. And yes some genuinely need benefits the majority could work.

You talk about immigration not costing us. There's estimated at about 1,000,000 refugees or illegal immigrants currently in UK. Even give a very low cost of £200 per head a week to keep them that's £200 million a bloody week lol.

And that's just a start with figures. And unlike many these aren't from Uncle Joe down the roads tik tok videos these are from the government sites etc.

But guess none of this plays a factor in the country being skint lol.

 

[mack341]

The bbc's latest article on asylum overspend

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"Last month Chancellor Rachel Reeves put an estimated £6.4bn asylum overspend at the heart of a £22bn "black hole" in spending for this year which she said she had inherited from the Conservatives.

The IFS said it understood that the £6.4bn included the £1.5bn top-up already requested.

An additional £4bn was "almost inevitable" on top of that, it added, despite an estimated £800m saving from scrapping the previous government's Rwanda deportation scheme."
-------------
Ten thousand million pounds, and that's only 1 year, just think how that money could be better spent.

The government or parts of it have gone mad, the james o briens etc must be running out of time defending this state of affairs.

 

[lockinlove]

The bbc's latest article on asylum overspend

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"Last month Chancellor Rachel Reeves put an estimated £6.4bn asylum overspend at the heart of a £22bn "black hole" in spending for this year which she said she had inherited from the Conservatives.

The IFS said it understood that the £6.4bn included the £1.5bn top-up already requested.

An additional £4bn was "almost inevitable" on top of that, it added, despite an estimated £800m saving from scrapping the previous government's Rwanda deportation scheme."
-------------
Ten thousand million pounds, and that's only 1 year, just think how that money could be better spent.

The government or parts of it have gone mad, the james o briens etc must be running out of time defending this state of affairs.

Are a bunch of 13 year old kids running the government?

Taxes from the people were always supposed to be used to help your country out. Road repairs, education, health care, homeless, mental health, military etc. Slowly over decades it turned into we will do whatever the hell we want with your money and if you speak out against, we will jail you.

 

[mack341]

The labour party is basically a shadow of what it used to be, some of their objectives used to be more down to earth, and they could hold the conservatives to account (who would generally be in power) via debates and political pressure which helped maintain public services to a decent standard and availability.

But since 97 and blair, an amalgam formed between the cons and labour, with the worst aspects of each adopted by the other.

Fast forward to now and...

"People across the UK have had to pull their own teeth out because they can't access or afford an NHS dentist, a report suggests.

Extractions have been performed with pliers in some cases, while others have been forced to make a five-hour round trip to see a professional.

The Health and Social Care Committee says "urgent and fundamental reform" is needed - and there is evidence of pain and distress that is "totally unacceptable in the 21st century".

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The labour party is basically a shadow of what it used to be, some of their objectives used to be more down to earth, and they could hold the conservatives to account (who would generally be in power) via debates and political pressure which helped maintain public services to a decent standard and availability.

But since 97 and blair, an amalgam formed between the cons and labour, with the worst aspects of each adopted by the other.

Fast forward to now and...

"People across the UK have had to pull their own teeth out because they can't access or afford an NHS dentist, a report suggests.

Extractions have been performed with pliers in some cases, while others have been forced to make a five-hour round trip to see a professional.

The Health and Social Care Committee says "urgent and fundamental reform" is needed - and there is evidence of pain and distress that is "totally unacceptable in the 21st century".

Two months mack, Labour have been in power for two months. The Tories spent 14 years neglecting the NHS and systematically smashing it to pieces.

When Labour left office in 2010, the NHS, including dentistry, was in an excellent place across the UK.

As Starmer said the other day at Downing Street in relation to the prisons crisis, 'I can't build a prison by Saturday'. The same principle applies to the NHS, and dentistry.

We absolutely should judge Starmer's Labour by its actions, but first, let's give them chance to actually make some actions.

The dire state of the UK, which Starmer is still just fully getting a handle on, is on the Tories and their 14 years of disastrous misrule. The final act of which was the national self-immolation of Brexit, which blew a permanent 5% hole in the UK's GDP, costing the Treasury tens of billions of pounds in lost tax revenues every year.

 

[thr0b]

The bbc's latest article on asylum overspend

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"Last month Chancellor Rachel Reeves put an estimated £6.4bn asylum overspend at the heart of a £22bn "black hole" in spending for this year which she said she had inherited from the Conservatives.

The IFS said it understood that the £6.4bn included the £1.5bn top-up already requested.

An additional £4bn was "almost inevitable" on top of that, it added, despite an estimated £800m saving from scrapping the previous government's Rwanda deportation scheme."
-------------
Ten thousand million pounds, and that's only 1 year, just think how that money could be better spent.

The government or parts of it have gone mad, the james o briens etc must be running out of time defending this state of affairs.

Not sure how a departmental overspend before Labour got in is their fault. And I can’t see O’Brien even trying to think of a reason to defend it, because there isn’t one.

The Tories enacted several acts of fraud on the nation. This is the consequence - once they’re out of power, the bodies are found.

 

[mack341]

Not sure how a departmental overspend before Labour got in is their fault. And I can’t see O’Brien even trying to think of a reason to defend it, because there isn’t one.

The Tories enacted several acts of fraud on the nation. This is the consequence - once they’re out of power, the bodies are found.

I don't think I said it was, govt includes the permanent civil service.

Chop already claimed the costs re immigration were minor, I would expect mr Job to be on the same page. That enacting a wealth tax is more important.

 

[Webzcas]

There is no doubt whatsoever that the Tories ran roughshod over the nation's finances. I always found it laughable that they continued to blame the previous Labour Administration ie Blair then Brown, over the state of the finances when Cameron LibCon coalition took over.

Um, we had just experienced a global financial crash in 2008, something of which we had not seen since the Wall Street implosion and Great Depression of the 1920's.

It was Gordon Brown and his planning that not only led the UK out of the mess of the 2008 crash, but also the world. Even the US followed Brown's lead!

Whilst Brown did not have the charisma of Blair and was seen as a dour Scot, he was during his short tenure at number 10 a very steady hand on deck as PM. He was also an excellent Chancellor before.

Cameron and his chum Osbourne foisted austerity measures on the poorest of society and then fast forward several years we get hit by Covid, the financially crippling lockdowns that ensued and the biggest financial hit to the economy the UK has ever taken since the dark days of WW2.

For Reeves and Labour to state they were unaware of this £22bn blackhole is disingenuous at best and a blatant lie at worst.

Fact is the Tory party are a mere shadow of themselves. They used to be the party that stood for low taxation and less investment in public services. Yet under Sunak's leadership, with Hunt at the tiller, we are faced with the highest levels of taxation since 1945.

They in short thanks to their antics over the past few years became unelectable. Hence Starmer has an epic majority which leads to deceive. Starmer's Labour Party do not have country wide support, many of their seats won are on razor thin majorities.

So what are we looking at now? A lot of pain. More taxation, continued two tier policing, more unabated immigration and just really a bad time for Mr and Mrs Joe Average that resides on these islands. :-(

 

[dunover]

Two months mack, Labour have been in power for two months. The Tories spent 14 years neglecting the NHS and systematically smashing it to pieces.

When Labour left office in 2010, the NHS, including dentistry, was in an excellent place across the UK.

As Starmer said the other day at Downing Street in relation to the prisons crisis, 'I can't build a prison by Saturday'. The same principle applies to the NHS, and dentistry.

We absolutely should judge Starmer's Labour by its actions, but first, let's give them chance to actually make some actions.

The dire state of the UK, which Starmer is still just fully getting a handle on, is on the Tories and their 14 years of disastrous misrule. The final act of which was the national self-immolation of Brexit, which blew a permanent 5% hole in the UK's GDP, costing the Treasury tens of billions of pounds in lost tax revenues every year.

LOL...I have always used private dentistry but missus and daughter could NOT get NHS dentistry back then. Still can't. I have spent about 2k on daughter's correction and alignment processes in last 5 years so she can have the 'perfect' teeth look that's so necessary for teenagers and young girls nowadays and yes, it worked and she's never needed a single filling or extraction aside from a couple of wisdom teeth. My point here being the investment means she likes her smile/teeth and really looks after them so never needs any more spending on them for fillings, just a £50 check-up every 6 months. Money well spent, happy child, no further remedial work to pay for. But, it was private....

 

[mack341]

Two months mack, Labour have been in power for two months. The Tories spent 14 years neglecting the NHS and systematically smashing it to pieces.

When Labour left office in 2010, the NHS, including dentistry, was in an excellent place across the UK.

As Starmer said the other day at Downing Street in relation to the prisons crisis, 'I can't build a prison by Saturday'. The same principle applies to the NHS, and dentistry.

We absolutely should judge Starmer's Labour by its actions, but first, let's give them chance to actually make some actions.

The dire state of the UK, which Starmer is still just fully getting a handle on, is on the Tories and their 14 years of disastrous misrule. The final act of which was the national self-immolation of Brexit, which blew a permanent 5% hole in the UK's GDP, costing the Treasury tens of billions of pounds in lost tax revenues every year.

That dentistry quote was from a 2023 article, however I stand by my point. The state of current dentistry as a public service would not have been acceptable or politically possible in the 1980s, when the tories were also in power.

So something changed, that was labour in 1997. It meant there was no longer a debate between the parties on lots of areas.

The quotes below are also from the 2023 skynews article, bear in mind this dates the problems right back to 2008 and earlier, therefore your claim about the excellent place dentistry was left in by labour cannot be true. (Albeit compared to now it was better, but the rot was in the system)

"Mr Brine added: "What's particularly frustrating is that recommendations made by our predecessor committee 15 years ago to reform the dental contract have still not been implemented.

Shawn Charlwood, chairman of the British Dental Association's General Dental Practice Committee, said the report is "an instruction manual to save NHS dentistry".

He added: "The real question now is whether government or opposition are ready to use it. Failure to act will condemn this service to oblivion."

The old 80s Labour would have campaigned electorally on the parlous state of nhs dentistry provision, the new labour version that starmer has inherited wouldn't, and as far as I'm aware they didn't.

But he and the govt are not slow to act imprisoning people (from mainly rundown areas as well) for thought crimes. Ironically, being in prison they might actually receive some nhs dentistry if they've got teeth problems.

I believe in giving a new govt time to fix things, but you have to make some sounds in the right direction and get the ball rolling, afaik there was nothing in the king's speech regarding nhs dentistry reform by this govt.

So therefore it's going to be kicked down the road as an issue affecting folk in their day to day lives.

 

[dunover]

Pensions have risen proportionately more than any other benefit over the last few years. And those that won’t get the payment are those who the benefits agencies deem have sufficient income from their pensions/other benefits already to pay it.

It’s not been removed. It’s means assessed.

And what’s the alternative? Something has to give somewhere. Why should it always be on the younger folk? It’s the older folks who voted Tory and got us into this in the first place.

Welcome to the new thought age. Government assistance to be based upon the recipients' voting habits.
Maybe because over a working life they actually paid a hefty wedge into the system, y'know a little comes back in return?

 

[lockinlove]

German politicians prove that you can be an absolute idiot and run a country. Wild they let their country take in all these animals !!

UK politcians paying attention or no?

 

[mack341]

We could probably have the best dental and nhs ever in our history if we put our minds to it, plus education and things like trains, the know-how is there now, but not also alongside mass immigration and a bloated population with overcrowding, it is impossible.

Please explain why we plan to give billions to places like india to fight climate change, when they have their own funded space program and nuclear weapons, plus loads of billionaires (200 to our 55)?

 

[goatwack]

Angela......Raver, resplendent in her usual red, lumbering along as though she was 21 again on her Council estate, making Theresa May's moves look like Margot Fonteyn in comparison.

Mind you, even commie Brit-haters that loathe the working class need to sometimes pretend they're party people, via regime relaxation. Something for pensioners to watch as they huddle round in their local libraries to keep warm!

Rumours of her requesting the songs "You'll own nothing and be happy" & "I game the system" are yet to be confirmed....

 

[ChopleyIOM]

'Working woman goes on holiday during her leave' shocker.

I recall everyone here at CM totally clutching their pearls when Johnson went on a mega-bender in Italy, without his aides, with a bunch of dodgy Russians, and was then seen so hungover the next day he couldn't even walk straight.

At the time he was Foreign Secretary, and it was in the wake of the Novichok poisonings on British soil.

Still, that Angela Rayner eh? How dare a working class woman do well in life and be entitled to a break from her job.

It's the consistency of moral standards employed by some of the CM regulars that impress me most!

 

[TheAddict]

Was laughin before reading the post, Goat. As per the previous 50 posts from Chops, omly glanced over his. zzzzz.


Did anyone here actually support boris?
Fucking hell... they're both traitors. Starmer is gonna show them how to do it properly though.

 

[goatwack]

It's true, she is a working woman. Even if no one knows what she does! Actually, tell a lie - she was pictured wearing a high-vis jacket a while ago during the fantasy building projects timeline!

But let's allow her time to enjoy her time off, two months into the new Government, as- let's be honest here- it'll be the worst Government in this country's history, already superseding Truss', and rivalling 'fourteen years of Tory misrule'. An impressive feat!

 

[geordiecolin]

The Minister for dog ends, Angela Chew Bacci caught having a sly roll up outside Weatherspoons

 

[geordiecolin]

We could probably have the best dental and nhs ever in our history if we put our minds to it, plus education and things like trains, the know-how is there now, but not also alongside mass immigration and a bloated population with overcrowding, it is impossible.

Please explain why we plan to give billions to places like india to fight climate change, when they have their own funded space program and nuclear weapons, plus loads of billionaires (200 to our 55)?

View attachment 200445

There are some who question the figures of world population. Here is the rational behind it.

 

[dunover]

Labour MP slum landlord...well there's a shock.

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[geordiecolin]

 

[geordiecolin]

It is worth considering the people who know.

 

[mack341]

The BBC are reporting that the mum and also the Swedish chef have now both died, this relates to 'carnival' the wonderful benefit multiculturalism brings to these shores.

It can't carry on, the stabbing and violence.

A man in a wheelchair was murdered the other day, victim of a machete attack, it doesn't get much lower or lawless than that.

 

[lockinlove]

The BBC are reporting that the mum and also the Swedish chef have now both died, this relates to 'carnival' the wonderful benefit multiculturalism brings to these shores.

It can't carry on, the stabbing and violence.

A man in a wheelchair was murdered the other day, victim of a machete attack, it doesn't get much lower or lawless than that.

It can and it will. When your own government does nothing to address it or condemn it, its basically encouraging it. Hell you even have some brits either defending it or making wild ass claims saying immigration isnt costly INSTEAD of being outraged over their own people people stabbed and raped.

So until that ridiculousness stops, the other crimes will not stop.

Germany was told by everyone not to let them in. They virtue signaled instead and allowed it Thousands of their own people dead and/or raped. And just now are starting to crack down and deport them.

You think the Uk would learn what is going on not too far from them. Nope. These morons only learn when its usually too late. Same thing with the UK. Give it a couple more years, same thing. Thousands raped and murdered and then the UK will have had enough.

Or will it? Your guys government is absolutely rotten to the core. The entire government. The brainwashed try and say "yeah but the conseravtives held power for a decade +) THE UK DOES NOT HAVE CONVERVATIVES. These are ALL liberal policies. All of them.