General Election 2024 Thread

[Kroffe]

Isnt sentencing supposed to be slightly harsh, or god forbid even outright harsh.
If there are no consequences they would just be back out on the roads the moment they are let go.

 

[goatwack]

Isnt sentencing supposed to be slightly harsh, or god forbid even outright harsh.
If there are no consequences they would just be back out on the roads the moment they are let go.

Oh I see. You're MAGA too, eh

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Some interesting sentencing history of the judge who handed down the jail terms to the five JSO protesters.



And there's this one.

And below, a reminder of the dangers to the public that he's locked up for a total of over twenty years.

I can honestly see these sentences getting overturned on appeal.

I'm certainly going to sleep better at night knowing that these TERRORISTS aren't stalking the streets!

 

[itsme123]

I'm certainly going to sleep better at night knowing that these TERRORISTS aren't stalking the streets!

View attachment 199099

For once I agree with your sentiment and the world is definitely a far better place with these yobs in prison for several years.

 

[ollygarch]

The problem with the JSO survey, which I did by the way, is that it asks the question in a vacuum. The only consequence of the action is disruption of traffic flow on the M25. How many tons of extra CO2 were generated, how many doctors/hospital appointments were missed, did anyone die in the back of an ambulance, how many £m did it cost British business in lost productivity. Given that information I think the response to the survey would be rather different.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The problem with the JSO survey, which I did by the way, is that it asks the question in a vacuum. The only consequence of the action is disruption of traffic flow on the M25. How many tons of extra CO2 were generated, how many doctors/hospital appointments were missed, did anyone die in the back of an ambulance, how many £m did it cost British business in lost productivity. Given that information I think the response to the survey would be rather different.

The whole point of protests is that they're disruptive, so that the cause gets some eyes on it, the Suffragettes didn't get the vote by asking their husbands politely about it over a cup of tea.

The JSO protesters are shouting fire because there's a massive fire burning in the shape of an impending climate catastrophe, which will make their protests pale into insignificance in terms of inconvenience, as basics such as food and water security start to break down.

I was living in Manchester when the IRA were still blowing things up, that was quite inconvenient (they blew up me and Mrs Chopley's favourite pub!), but I was able to keep some perspective on their side of the argument and welcomed the eventual political settlement of the Good Friday Agreement. We need an international agreement on climate change, and sharpish.

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If you think sentencing like this is legitimate, when there are trials for violent crimes, rapes, burglary and all sorts of other horrible stuff, getting stuck for years due to a completely maxed out judicial system, then I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[itsme123]

The whole point of protests is that they're disruptive, so that the cause gets some eyes on it, the Suffragettes didn't get the vote by asking their husbands politely about it over a cup of tea.

The JSO protesters are shouting fire because there's a massive fire burning in the shape of an impending climate catastrophe, which will make their protests pale into insignificance in terms of inconvenience, as basics such as food and water security start to break down.

I was living in Manchester when the IRA were still blowing things up, that was quite inconvenient (they blew up me and Mrs Chopley's favourite pub!), but I was able to keep some perspective on their side of the argument and welcomed the eventual political settlement of the Good Friday Agreement. We need an international agreement on climate change, and sharpish.

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If you think sentencing like this is legitimate, when there are trials for violent crimes, rapes, burglary and all sorts of other horrible stuff, getting stuck for years due to a completely maxed out judicial system, then I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

View attachment 199107

Broken laws = crime and punishment.
Broken Injuction = crime and punishment.
On your examples above, they broke the law, so they got punished. Dont know why you have this crusade to vindicate them, they broke laws they have to deal with the jail time.
How would you feel if a loved one was in an ambulance that was getting stopped by these ecowankers? How would you feel if they suffered as a consequence?
As for the scum of the IRA, or come to that the scum of the UVF/INLA/UFF there was nothing glorious or honourable in their campaigns, just pure terrorists and its a pity you had to suffer your favourite pub being blown up. Tell that to the people in NI who had loved ones shot/bombed/maimed as they went about their daily lifes.....
That IRA statement alone shows me you haven't got a single piece of decency in your body, lamenting your pub being blown up while 3,000+ were murdered and many 000's more had their lives destroyed by JC's heroes.

 

[goatwack]

Excellent!

Conflating Suffragettes with Just Stop Oil, excusing and gaslighting the 'minor' inconvenience of people dying due to JSO's actions, as they threatened more if their demands weren't met!

How very terrorist-like!

Then proceed to cite the IRA, because he's been through it all, as they 'inconvenienced' him by blowing up his favourite pub! (in the midst of their 'blowing things up')....

What an infantilized take on proceedings from someone who even found time to empathize with their cause, hence the lack of 'terrorists' there too

Seems ideologues view everything through a prism of convenience, judging by the last few responses, more specifically, if convenient to them

The short-sightedness and lack of self-awareness never ceases to amaze!

 

[dunover]

The whole point of protests is that they're disruptive, so that the cause gets some eyes on it, the Suffragettes didn't get the vote by asking their husbands politely about it over a cup of tea.

The JSO protesters are shouting fire because there's a massive fire burning in the shape of an impending climate catastrophe, which will make their protests pale into insignificance in terms of inconvenience, as basics such as food and water security start to break down.

I was living in Manchester when the IRA were still blowing things up, that was quite inconvenient (they blew up me and Mrs Chopley's favourite pub!), but I was able to keep some perspective on their side of the argument and welcomed the eventual political settlement of the Good Friday Agreement. We need an international agreement on climate change, and sharpish.

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If you think sentencing like this is legitimate, when there are trials for violent crimes, rapes, burglary and all sorts of other horrible stuff, getting stuck for years due to a completely maxed out judicial system, then I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

View attachment 199107

Wow. I cannot believe you said all that. When PIRA was murdering 3-year old children in Warrington, a damaged pub is what you remember most. A 'democrat' who seems to advocate terrorism if he cannot get his own way. Yeah, right.

So you would naturally accept or celebrate a few unnecessary deaths caused by JSO if it had your desired result of a new climate agreement?

Sadly, the left throughout history have been the cruellest of all facets of politics and valued life the cheapest. As the fundamental problem is not consumption itself but the fact the human population is increasing too fast for any cuts to have an overall effect, I think your philosophy may actually work. Marxism/communism has caused over 100m deaths in 100 years as well as reducing the survivors to such poverty they don't actually consume anything that contributes much to CO2.

So get us all growing our own potatoes, coppicing beech for fuel, recycling jam jars to store crushed blackberries in for vitamin C over winter, make us all shoes from old car tyres and bin off all vehicles and electrical goods, phones etc. Pol Pot was after all very environment-friendly. He tried the same.

A terrorist will often use the tactic of ruining or stopping the infrastructure working, whether by obstruction, vandalism or scares is immaterial. JSO's actions produce a similar result on the infrastructure, therefore they should be tried when committing such crimes under anti-terror legislation.

 

[amandajm]

That's not how he meant it to sound.

The alarming part of that post is the "but I was able to keep some perspective on their side of the argument".

 

[dealer wins]

The real crime here is believing the "climate is fucked" bollocks.

Its a WEF, UN globalist etc scam to tax us and control us, that is it.

And even if it were real, the UK going back to living in caves eating grass would make sod all difference apart from kill us off.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That's not how he meant it to sound.

The alarming part of that post is the "but I was able to keep some perspective on their side of the argument".

I'm not even going to dignify the three replies before yours with a response - (if that's what they can get from the words I actually wrote then it's a gulf I can't be bothered to try and bridge) - but on your point surely the answer there is it's always worth trying to look at both sides of any situation and understand where they're coming from, and especially the history and context around it.

You don't have to endorse or approve or what's being done, but nothing happens in a vacuum, the history of Ireland is long and bloody and it's fair to say that the English weren't always..... nice.

Reducing a situation to good guys and bad guys generally isn't the way to go, sometimes there are clear and obvious evils that need to be faced down, Nazi Germany being an obvious example, but in general the situation is more nuanced.

On the IRA even the Thatcher government was talking to them behind the scenes for many years, realising that a political settlement was probably going to be the end point (I mean, how do you even 'beat' the IRA? What does a victory look like?), something that John Major, to his great credit, really ran with and was then seen to completion by Blair.

There's a reason Major and Blair worked together to warn against the perils of Brexit for Ireland.

 

[ollygarch]

A more useful comparison would be CO2 emissions per head of population. At least China tried a one child policy. Since a high proportion of the industrial goods we buy are made in China their CO2 is being generated on our behalf.

 

[itsme123]

I'm not even going to dignify the three replies before yours with a response - (if that's what they can get from the words I actually wrote then it's a gulf I can't be bothered to try and bridge) - but on your point surely the answer there is it's always worth trying to look at both sides of any situation and understand where they're coming from, and especially the history and context around it.

You don't have to endorse or approve or what's being done, but nothing happens in a vacuum, the history of Ireland is long and bloody and it's fair to say that the English weren't always..... nice.

Reducing a situation to good guys and bad guys generally isn't the way to go, sometimes there are clear and obvious evils that need to be faced down, Nazi Germany being an obvious example, but in general the situation is more nuanced.

On the IRA even the Thatcher government was talking to them behind the scenes for many years, realising that a political settlement was probably going to be the end point (I mean, how do you even 'beat' the IRA? What does a victory look like?), something that John Major, to his great credit, really ran with and was then seen to completion by Blair.

There's a reason Major and Blair worked together to warn against the perils of Brexit for Ireland.

What absolute bullcrap, and you won’t even take responsibility for your words.
Always the same from you, you don’t mind the IRA killing thousands but you do mind having to suffer the consequences of not being able to go to your favourite pub.
It was the same when Farage got the milkshake, big laugh for you but you didn’t seem to comprehend that it could have been something much worse.
Don’t bother dignifying this post with a response as it would be your usual crap trying to justify your love of anarchists, terrorists and the general criminal population.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

What absolute bullcrap, and you won’t even take responsibility for your words.
Always the same from you, you don’t mind the IRA killing thousands but you do mind having to suffer the consequences of not being able to go to your favourite pub.
It was the same when Farage got the milkshake, big laugh for you but you didn’t seem to comprehend that it could have been something much worse.
Don’t bother dignifying this post with a response as it would be your usual crap trying to justify your love of anarchists, terrorists and the general criminal population.

I take complete responsibility for my words, they remain right there in my posts and I'm not going to go back and edit them in any way. If you want to make the leap from the words I wrote to me apparently 'not minding' about the people the IRA killed then I can't even remotely be bothered to try and disabuse you of that notion, especially considering one of your previous statements earlier in this thread was that I must have thought it was 'great' when 'that Tory MP' whose name you couldn't even remember was murdered. (It was David Amess.)

'Love of terrorists' - I give you a 10/10 for baseless histrionics.

 

[itsme123]

I take complete responsibility for my words, they remain right there in my posts and I'm not going to go back and edit them in any way. If you want to make the leap from the words I wrote to me apparently 'not minding' about the people the IRA killed then I can't even remotely be bothered to try and disabuse you of that notion, especially considering one of your previous statements earlier in this thread was that I must have thought it was 'great' when 'that Tory MP' whose name you couldn't even remember was murdered. (It was David Amess.)

'Love of terrorists' - I give you a 10/10 for baseless histrionics.

Your comment was so blasé, you suffered the inconvenience of your favourite pub being blown up, and you’re still defending it.
That just goes to show what a stand up individual you are, making comments like that and thinking it’s a fair equivalence of what others suffered at the hands of those scum.

 

[itsme123]

earlier in this thread was that I must have thought it was 'great' when 'that Tory MP' whose name you couldn't even remember was murdered. (It was David Amess.)

Bravo, you put in the time to google David Amess’ name, surely that shows what a wonderful fella you are.
I stand by everything I’ve said, you are a left wing bigot, and I look forward to JSO paying a visit to your utopia and fucking everyone over to give you a taste of what others have had to put up with.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Anyway, moving on from the grand Chopley's Annual Celebration Of Past Atrocities festival which itsme has invented in his head, we are now into the realms of... sinister music... BREXIT BETRAYAL.

This 'betrayal' is taking the form of a grown-up UK government talking constructively with our friends, allies and partners within the EU, to see if we can't start to unfuck Brexit a bit. This isn't going to be easy thanks to Johnson's crash and burn hard Brexit (we all remember his 'Fuck business', right?), but all signs are that things are progressing well, with a lot of goodwill on both sides and a desire to get things moving to our mutual benefit.

Starmer has boxed himself in a bit with a promise of no return to the Single Market or Customs Union, (I suspect that'll be a second term project), but there's a lot of stuff that can be done from where we are now, regulatory alignments, free movement of performers, that sort of thing. I also understand why Starmer took the stance he did in the election campaign, as he completely defanged the entire Brexit subject and left no room whatsoever for attacks.

If one starts from the position that whatever boils the piss of the Express and/or The Doolally Mail is probably going to be good for the UK, we're most likely on the right track.

Typically excellent analysis from Chris Grey:

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[ChopleyIOM]

Yes whatever is Nigel thinking, spending time with probably the next president of the US, building on their friendship.

Having influence and the ear of the president of the most powerful country on earth is just not worth it. Won't help Clacton

I note Nigel has returned to the UK having failed to so much as get his picture taken with Trump (something that even pound-shop Worzel Gummidge Boris Johnson managed to achieve).

I guess he's not such good friends with Trump after all. I mean, sheesh, it wasn't for lack of prowling around the RNC like a desperate boil looking for an arse to attach itself to.

One thing I will say for a Trump victory (which seems likely) is that it'll greatly help in the rapprochement between the UK and the rest of the EU, as Trump and even more so his running mate have made it quite clear that Europe are not even remotely on their list of concerns.

The UK remains a decent midsized power, both economically and militarily, and the smart way to play that is to be a top-table player within Europe as a trusted friend and ally (the Starmer approach), rather than as a tantrum-throwing toddler on the sidelines, wailing about how unfair it all is (the Tory approach).

In fairness to Sunak he did try to shift the dial on that, and the Windsor Framework was a decent achievement, but ultimately he was held hostage by the headbangers in his own ranks.

 

[amandajm]

If you don't like them, ie Farage, Trump, you surely can't think you do perspective. Every post they're in, at least 3 pejoratives.

Don't get surprised then, when you reserve perspective for a known terrorist, even to make an adjunct point, folk take you to task, regardless of nuance.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

If you don't like them, ie Farage, Trump, you surely can't think you do perspective. Every post they're in, at least 3 pejoratives.

Don't get surprised then, when you reserve perspective for a known terrorist, even to make an adjunct point, folk take you to task, regardless of nuance.

Fair point but when it comes to a few characters, notably Trump, Johnson and Farage, and Truss, and maybe some others ( ) I think they deserve every last iota of opprobrium I send in their direction. (Less so Truss in some regards, in her case she's just a bit dim.)

There aren't that many people I hold in genuine contempt, but they are all on the list. Sunak for example, I'm generally reasonably polite about, some Tories I genuinely like, such as Rory Stewart, and others I at least respect and will pay some attention to, such as Theresa May.

I can cope with being called a left wing bigot who 'loves terrorists' and celebrates the murder of innocent people on the internet, it's not like it makes it true.

 

[itsme123]

"I was living in Manchester when the IRA were still blowing things up, that was quite inconvenient (they blew up me and Mrs Chopley's favourite pub!)"
What a thing to say, poor you being inconvenienced, I am sure if you had let JC know that he would have told Gerry and co to give you a break and concentrate more on killing innocents in Kingsmill or more indiscriminate events like Bloody Friday,but sure you can see it all from their perspective.
Belittling the death and destruction that they caused, noting it as being quite inconvenient shows you are in your own little cocoon that's never been affected by their actions, apart from missing a night at your favourite pub. Many people who lived through that experience a bit more than it be "quite inconvenient".
Great that you stand by all that, shows what you are really like.

 

[goatwack]

Definitely some major cope and projection on display here, with the usual dash of gaslighting

I imagine the mere mention of Farage, Trump and Johnson causes a red mist to descend and uncontrollable fits of rage, with copious amounts of drool added into the mix!

Imagine then the sheer hatred on display, you know they'd have no qualms about these politicians being dead, the vitriol goes beyond any credible objectivity.....yet on the other hand revering other politicians who care neither for them or the country, certainly not in front-line politics!

Meanwhile, equally indifferent and useless Yvette Cooper has decreed the likes of hair salons and car washes to be raided in view to deporting illegal workers. Bit presumptive, a little bit prejudiced and seemingly with nowhere to properly process them:

...And we are drawing up new plans for fast track decisions and returns for safe countries.'

That'd be the 'safe countries' they passed en route to the UK I take it? I'm sure they'd welcome them with open arms. Nor would they simply retake the same journey in what are now yachts to go even deeper underground once back, all thanks to Labour's openly disclosing their methods.

Labour = undesirables out?

 

[goatwack]

First it was allowing violent criminals out early, then came the kid gloves 'policing' during the Leeds riots.

Followed by their openly punitive handling of private schools, likely one of the last places where children would hope to be instilled with any form of respecting authority and discipline, Labour have decided to nationalize leniency on a grand scale!

Out go isolation booths, suspensions and probably detentions to those pupils deemed 'vulnerable'.

In its stead, expect 'inclusivity' and non-specialized integration, marking a historic field- day for those wishing to make orderly students' lives a misery, with the purported aim of dragging them down to feral level almost complete!

In what must be a hellscape in urban teaching already, expect any sliver of discipline to wisp into nothingness as everyone accommodates physical violence, untold disruption and intimidation to protect their fee-fees!

Teacher recruitment will of course be impacted, as will everyone's grades as they plumb to uniform lows!

Only then will true equality be achieved, as everyone's equally ill-educated and equally impoverished. Great job there Labour!

“The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.”

 

[mack341]

And it's Nigel grift this and it's Nigel grift that, while all others are assumed to have made a genuine mistake.
(Edit: If my eyes do not fail me, draped in an EU flag too, the centre for fiscal impropriety )

 

[goatwack]

Probably just slipped her mind

 

[ChopleyIOM]

"I was living in Manchester when the IRA were still blowing things up, that was quite inconvenient (they blew up me and Mrs Chopley's favourite pub!)"
What a thing to say, poor you being inconvenienced, I am sure if you had let JC know that he would have told Gerry and co to give you a break and concentrate more on killing innocents in Kingsmill or more indiscriminate events like Bloody Friday,but sure you can see it all from their perspective.
Belittling the death and destruction that they caused, noting it as being quite inconvenient shows you are in your own little cocoon that's never been affected by their actions, apart from missing a night at your favourite pub. Many people who lived through that experience a bit more than it be "quite inconvenient".
Great that you stand by all that, shows what you are really like.

I don't want to keep picking at this scab but I will say that the post you've taken that line from was supposed to be a lot longer, I was running short on time so just posted what I had, the best thing to do would have been to take the IRA reference out, or leave the post until later when I could finish it off properly, because it was missing a lot of context around it. (Ironically some of which was supposed to be a juxtaposition between how what counts as inconvenience for one person, can be devastating for someone else, or of no consequence at all to another, folding into the JSO stuff, absolutism, and so on).

Ultimately you can believe what you choose to of course, but I don't condone terrorist atrocities, and I most certainly didn't think it was anything other than horrific when David Amess was murdered.

On balance it wasn't a smart thing to post in that form.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Now that Labour are in government they've been able to see the books on the Rwanda scheme.

Spent to date - SEVEN HUNDRED MILLION POUNDS
Total projected cost over six years - TEN BILLION POUNDS

People sent to Rwanda for seven hundred million quid - Four. All of them volunteers.

Thankfully Labour killed the scheme on their first day in government.

 

[Webzcas]

Scandalous. Add this to the PPE fiasco and the previous govt has wasted money like it was going out of fashion. Whilst imposting austerity measures on the poorer sections of society!

 

[pinnit2014]

Scandalous. Add this to the PPE fiasco and the previous govt has wasted money like it was going out of fashion. Whilst imposting austerity measures on the poorer sections of society!

Patel used a Ministerial Direction to push it through (good CV question when she's up for the Leadership interview: she was/is pretty useless) - MD's were used a lot through CV-19 to push cash out (essentially over concerns of fraud), but seemingly very rare for the Home Office.

That's the thing isn't it: money gets pissed against a tree then, when it comes to other areas: sorry Guv, no money is left for....wait a minute..... Often wonder if austerity is economical or political (poor choices/decisions).

 

[goatwack]

It was an expensive advertizing ploy to supposedly strike the fear of God into people smugglers and criminal gangs, long after Priti & co had already conceded defeat on border controls.

I remember her speech, it was awful, as were the brainstorms of jet skis (that would capsize) or paying arrivals thousands to kindly stay away.

In the end we had Sunak dribbling incoherently about stopping boats whilst confusing the nation and bribing Rwanda to process arrivals, a policy that suspiciously got greenlit as a hail mary when the Tories had no more ideas left!

 

[amandajm]

Braverman sitting in for James obrien is somewhat funny I must admit. Well he's not happy. I suppose I shouldn't laugh.

Yesterday, I think it was yesterday, Farage was trending because he said something arguably racist in the ultra broad meaning of the word these days, again. So they argue it, again, millionth time up, as you do.

The likes of uni lecturer Dr Russ Jackson seem unaware he does it on purpose.

 

[thr0b]

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[goatwack]

I see that there appears to be trouble in paradise as newly-dubbed Sir Kid Starver suspends seven Labour MPs for raising the issue of the 2-child benefit cap.

Not really the united leadership that binds the party, nor help those struggling in borderline poverty. Just leave them to it, right?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I see that there appears to be trouble in paradise as newly-dubbed Sir Kid Starver suspends seven Labour MPs for raising the issue of the 2-child benefit cap.

Not really the united leadership that binds the party, nor help those struggling in borderline poverty. Just leave them to it, right?

Starmer isn't going to get bounced into anything by the chimpy rump that's left of the SNP. I reckon he will get rid of the two child cap, but he'll do it with a song and dance with money recovered from PPE fraud or something.

Fortunately someone has already covered this.

 

[goatwack]

Phew!

I'm sure those families affected are going to be relieved as their fears are allayed by Edwin Hayward off X!!

 

[thr0b]

They made clear they weren’t going to make big decisions until they can fund them. They’ve not said they won’t do it - just a fortnight in, it’s not the right time to do it.

 

[mack341]

Old Huw Edwards manages to live in an austerity free zone, £40,000 salary rise for a job he's not even doing.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Ken Clarke, a decent Tory from a previous generation of Conservatives, welcomes James Timpson (our new Prisons Minister, a clever recruit from Starmer) to the House Of Lords.

There's a lot to like about politics in the UK. Now that the Tory psychodrama of the last few years following the Brexit referendum in 2016 has finished - which ushered in one of the most dishonest and corrupt periods of government in memory - it's important to remember that we have a long tradition of respectful political discourse.

This is why I think Farage and his lot (and its various forms over the years, UKIP, BNP, National Front, whatever) will never be more than a fringe racist proposition in the UK.

Anyway, I've always had a lot of time for Ken Clarke, and indeed many Conservatives of his generation.

 

[ollygarch]

What goes around comes around. When Labour left office they left a note saying there was no money. Now the Conservatives have gone one better and Labour have discovered a hidden deficit of £20bn. Nice one.

 

[Webzcas]

Braverman sitting in for James obrien is somewhat funny I must admit. Well he's not happy. I suppose I shouldn't laugh.

HAHAHAHAHA - How did I miss this?!? I bet JoB was incandescent with rage. Must check his twitter feed out.

 

[Webzcas]

This is why I think Farage and his lot (and its various forms over the years, UKIP, BNP, National Front, whatever) will never be more than a fringe racist proposition in the UK.

Nice to prove my point Chopley, that people who agree with Reform and dare say voted for them, did so in the main quietly, similar to those who voted to leave the EU.

As you have clearly demonstrated that many left of centre leaning individuals like to tar said voters with labels or lump them in with far right facist groups, such as the NF and the BNP.

BTW, I voted Reform and I also was one of the 52% back in 2016 ;-)

 

[dunover]

Nice to prove my point Chopley, that people who agree with Reform and dare say voted for them, did so in the main quietly, similar to those who voted to leave the EU.

As you have clearly demonstrated that many left of centre leaning individuals like to tar said voters with labels or lump them in with far right facist groups, such as the NF and the BNP.

BTW, I voted Reform and I also was one of the 52% back in 2016 ;-)

Yeah, I saw that too but couldn't be bothered to deal with his provocative, trolling stupidity suggesting UKIP or Reform voters were those who would have voted BNP or NF back in the day. Over 4m Reform votes and 17m UKIP/Brexit votes kinda dwarfs the few tens of thousands the BNP or NF got in general elections or the 850-odd thousand the BNP polled in the European Parliament election when they got 2 MEPs in. But in overgrown student land, if you ain't left you're extreme right ok???

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Nice to prove my point Chopley, that people who agree with Reform and dare say voted for them, did so in the main quietly, similar to those who voted to leave the EU.

As you have clearly demonstrated that many left of centre leaning individuals like to tar said voters with labels or lump them in with far right facist groups, such as the NF and the BNP.

BTW, I voted Reform and I also was one of the 52% back in 2016 ;-)

I've said multiple times that I don't think everyone who voted for Brexit, or more recently Reform, is racist. (Including in this very thread.)

Farage I do strongly believe is a fascist and a racist (his behaviour at school was literally flagged up as fascist).

Moreover, you won't find a racist who didn't vote for Brexit and/or Reform. Like, for someone who's racist, it's obvious where their vote will go.

Like yer man canvassing for Reform who called Sunak a 'fucking Paki', there was never going to be any question over which political party he'd be out campaigning for. You might personally find those comments abhorrent, but for a racist like him, a party headed up by proven racist Farage is clearly where he's going to end up.

 

[Webzcas]

I also got 3/1 that UK would vote Leave at my William Hill Betting shop, such was my conviction that 'Shy' Leave would win, due to most people being afraid of being wrongly labelled, a vocal minority of society.

100 sheets laid, 400 sheets back inclusive of stake. Thank you very much

 

[Webzcas]

I've said multiple times that I don't think everyone who voted for Brexit, or more recently Reform, is racist. (Including in this very thread.)

Farage I do strongly believe is a fascist and a racist (his behaviour at school was literally flagged up as fascist).

Moreover, you won't find a racist who didn't vote for Brexit and/or Reform. Like, for someone who's racist, it's obvious where their vote will go.

Like yer man canvassing for Reform who called Sunak a 'fucking Paki', there was never going to be any question over which political party he'd be out campaigning for. You might personally find those comments abhorrent, but for a racist like him, a party headed up by proven racist Farage is clearly where he's going to end up.

Yes you did and again you do it again, asserting that that Reform canvasser is 'my man'.

You just can't help yourself.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yes you did and again you do it again, asserting that that Reform canvasser is 'my man'.

You just can't help yourself.

It's Northern dialect, there's no suggestion on my part that the man in question is 'yours' in that regard, probably not a great idea to use dialect in posts, on balance. So for clarity, that's how I might talk IRL, 'Your man there fucking Boris Johnson' for example, to someone who hates Boris Johnson.

I've made this clear already earlier in this thread, more than once.

 

[goatwack]

I'd suggest the likes of BNP, UKIP, Reform et al will always exist in whatever guise, and represent nationalism more than racism, to varying degrees.

Preserving one peoples over others will always have racist connotations tethered to it, even if those voting for them are the furthest thing from racist themselves.

Bundling them all into one category is disingenuous however, at a base level, the likes of BNP are nothing like Reform, the latter of which at least wanting an overhaul of the duopoly in British politics amongst other things.

If you're going to have the two main parties fumble the football on illegal immigration for decades, this is the inevitable outlet. God knows Labour and the Tories have long given up the ghost with that one

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yes you did and again you do it again, asserting that that Reform canvasser is 'my man'.

You just can't help yourself.

I literally wrote it how I'd say it, 'Yer man'.

Like I said, I get dialect doesn't come over in the written word so a bad choice on my part, I wasn't suggesting you were personally endorsing or supporting what was said by him at all.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'd suggest the likes of BNP, UKIP, Reform et al will always exist in whatever guise, and represent nationalism more than racism, to varying degrees.

Preserving one peoples over others will always have racist connotations tethered to it, even if those voting for them are the furthest thing from racist themselves.

Bundling them all into one category is disingenuous however, at a base level, the likes of BNP are nothing like Reform, the latter of which at least wanting an overhaul of the duopoly in British politics amongst other things.

If you're going to have the two main parties fumble the football on illegal immigration for decades, this is the inevitable outlet. God knows Labour and the Tories have long given up the ghost with that one

But illegal immigration is a tiny part of the overall number, and it has been right the way throughout the last 30 years.

For the longest time it was mostly (legal) internal EU migration, Brexit made the UK much less attractive to EU residents so it was just replaced with (legal) immigration from elsewhere.

'Small boats' asylum seekers are a small subset of an already small slice of the overall immigration picture.

'Preserving one peoples over others' is a pretty telling statement in and of itself, like, what does that actually mean? How would you define that? Is it people who've lived in the UK for a certain amount of time and then they're OK, does it count if you're born in the UK? Do you have to be a certain colour, or worship a certain God? How many generations back counts as acceptable?

Farage played the racist wolf-whistle with Sunak leaving the D-Day celebrations early, saying he 'didn't understand our culture' (WINK WINK KNOW WHAT I MEAN RIGHT?), and yet Sunak is most definitely British. Or is he not British enough for Nigel? Or just the wrong kind of British?

Bit thorny isn't it.