General Election 2024 Thread

[pinnit2014]

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Pitching for the Leadership/Saviour of the Children- if you can make it through the entire 40 odd minutes, fair play: it's a challenge.

'Spaffled billions on a load of wank' - that's the most succinct policy description i've heard

 

[ChopleyIOM]

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Pitching for the Leadership/Saviour of the Children- if you can make it through the entire 40 odd minutes, fair play: it's a challenge.

'Spaffled billions on a load of wank' - that's the most succinct policy description i've heard

Yes, it appears that a bit of self-reflection is something that happens to other people

It's getting hard to distinguish the current real life Tories from a sketch that The Day Today would have done back in the mid 1990s.

Say what you like about Starmer, but one can't even remotely argue with how he's managed to reinvent the Labour Party in five years, taking them from a disastrous electoral result in 2019 to a massive majority in 2024. The way he did that is looking why and how Labour lost, and fixing it.

There is currently very little evidence that the Tories are going to manage the same process!

 

[ollygarch]

Suella seems to be casting herself in the same mould as Nigel Farage. Not politically, but in the way she says outrageous things to get some publicity. Ask the average man in the street to name some current Conservative MPs and I suspect she will get mentioned more often than most of the men in grey suits. This is how Boris got elected leader, and she might just do the same.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

International law dictates that you should be able to claim asylum in the first 'safe' country you arrive in. So why do France turn a blind eye to all the camps outside Calais???

With respect, this is one of the laziest and most inaccurate misrepresentations of international law pertaining to refugees around. It's factually incorrect, and it's incredibly easy to find out the truth of the situation. Google is a thing you know!

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And here's that cockwomble Gullis, who was one of my favourite Tory scalps from election night, being told the truth.



However, we did have a mechanism to return refugees to other EU countries under the Dublin Regulation, but guess what, we lost that when we left the EU.

(The text below was written before the UK came out of transition and we lost the provisions of the Dublin Regulation.)

 

[amandajm]

International law dictates that you should be able to claim asylum in the first 'safe' country you arrive in.

Not technically

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Webz.

So why do France turn a blind eye to all the camps outside Calais???

Not technically

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Dave.

However, France & UK can afford to police it's borders, plus treat all people well, etc, if they choose to. By the end of the week, if they choose to. They choose

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.

I've lived 50 years of Labour and Tory misrule. Abhorrent bunch. Might be Farage next. If he gets this subject wrong, it's arguably 50/50. Starmer got 3m less votes than Jeremy btw.

# apologies for the long post.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Suella seems to be casting herself in the same mould as Nigel Farage. Not politically, but in the way she says outrageous things to get some publicity. Ask the average man in the street to name some current Conservative MPs and I suspect she will get mentioned more often than most of the men in grey suits. This is how Boris got elected leader, and she might just do the same.

Suits me, if the Tories decide that trying to out-Farage Farage is the answer, after just getting destroyed by that exact same tactic, I'd be the last to want to stop them.

Reform are going nowhere, a party with those.... ahem.... 'persuasions' will generally manage to get ~15% or so of the vote in certain electoral climates, but that's about their lot. Plus their support base is literally dying of old age and not being replaced (see also, the Brexit demographics), so Reform and the Tories are welcome to try and out-wanker each other - that ways lies electoral oblivion.

 

[goatwack]

Imagine accusing others of shouting at the clouds, whilst spending all their time doing the exactly the same in every political thread

That aside, imagine also believing that the age pyramid and population's demographic suddenly stop with one generation, to be replaced with 25 year-old idealists

Barring the secret of eternal youth being discovered, there will always be people literally 'dying of old age' of any political persuasion. Now for the real shocker: they may not be prone to holding the same worldview they did 50 years prior!

Never seen people get in to such a tizzy over Reform either! In a mere month or so they've wrangled five seats and feature a populist as their leader, and despite people's view of them, don't look to be going away anytime soon?

The Conservatives are done for at least a generation, leaving Tory-adjacent members to join Reform, as we've been witnessing.

The worst thing Labour and the Conservative remnants can do is to mock and dismiss Reform as that would surely feed into their narrative? Far better then to let them talk themselves into oblivion, surely, lest we get a situation like in France

 

[thr0b]

I wouldn’t be dismissing the Tories so quickly, given the same narrative was said of Corbyn’s Labour, and five years later the same party has a landslide.

What the Tories and Corbyn’s Labour found, but wouldn’t acknowledge, is that going to the extremes of left or right does not appeal to most people, who are firmly centre/centre left/centre right.

Going too far the other way makes a good protest party, but doesn’t get you into government.

 

[goatwack]

I wouldn’t be dismissing the Tories so quickly, given the same narrative was said of Corbyn’s Labour, and five years later the same party has a landslide.

What the Tories and Corbyn’s Labour found, but wouldn’t acknowledge, is that going to the extremes of left or right does not appeal to most people, who are firmly centre/centre left/centre right.

Going too far the other way makes a good protest party, but doesn’t get you into government.

It was an impressive turnaround from the post-Corbyn era for sure, and testament that it can happen with the right leader and principles in place, albeit I believe it was also a cumulative effect and holdover from previous Tory reigns, going back as far as Cameron's austerity sledgehammer.

Reform are rabble-rousers and hold extreme views, the cause and effect to Conservatives' dithering and Labour trouncing doled out. So whilst they'll likely never hold power, it is mirroring France's fate, whereby the far-Right are shunned, yet the far-Left equally so, with Centrists all but helpless.

Cue riots and voila!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Alas it appears that there is discord within the vast ranks of Reform already. Farage has had a reshuffle and Ben Habib is not happy.

Lee Anderson is the new (chortle....) Chief Whip, someone's got keep all those (five) Reform MPs in check I suppose.

 

[pinnit2014]

Pretty sure Anderson is a parody at this point - he was posting about his breakfast: 'cheese 'n' toast', cos, you know, that's what real working class men eat etc (unless you're lactose intolerant and then it's a real shit show)

'Common sense' is a trope being flung about in politics recently, normally aimed at patronising what you think is the 'working class'. And Lee's full of it.

 

[mack341]

For sure mack, Bercow is what's really hurt politics in the UK, the guy who was speaker for a while and, with the benefit of hindsight, was clearly trying to save the UK from itself (Given how massively damaging Brexit has turned out to be.)

Since Cameron called the Brexit referendum in 2016, the Tories have been an absolute shitshow. They have dragged politics into the gutter and they have mortally wounded the UK with their fucked-up Brexit, economic malpractice, lies, divisive culture wars (that panned out well for them, eh? WOMEN WITH PENISES!!!!!), cavalcade of incompetence with a rotating door of senior government ministers and even Prime Ministers, and they've spaffed billions of pounds on a load of wank that achieved nothing.

About the only public good the entire crumbling edifice of the Conservative Party has performed since 2010 is Sunak calling a general election a few months before he had to, and putting the country out of its right-wing nutjob inflicted misery.

But yeah, Bercow eh, he's the villain of the piece!

Still, one could almost argue it's a price worth paying, since the end result is the Tories have been smashed into oblivion, and Farage has gathered up all the annoyed old people who don't like the way things aren't what they used to be, in a little rump of permanent grumpiness, and they can just piss and moan and shout at the clouds whilst Starmer gets on with the actual important business of fixing the country.

I said he damaged the perception of parliament, you're telling me (or yelling) that's untrue?

Starting and finishing points




A lot of the annoyed reform voters had been labour voters, you imply they have no right to be annoyed, I suppose it's the same across Europe, they've never had it so good so should shut up and embrace the centre left 'progression'?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Imagine accusing others of shouting at the clouds, whilst spending all their time doing the exactly the same in every political thread

That aside, imagine also believing that the age pyramid and population's demographic suddenly stop with one generation, to be replaced with 25 year-old idealists

Barring the secret of eternal youth being discovered, there will always be people literally 'dying of old age' of any political persuasion. Now for the real shocker: they may not be prone to holding the same worldview they did 50 years prior!

Never seen people get in to such a tizzy over Reform either! In a mere month or so they've wrangled five seats and feature a populist as their leader, and despite people's view of them, don't look to be going away anytime soon?

The Conservatives are done for at least a generation, leaving Tory-adjacent members to join Reform, as we've been witnessing.

The worst thing Labour and the Conservative remnants can do is to mock and dismiss Reform as that would surely feed into their narrative? Far better then to let them talk themselves into oblivion, surely, lest we get a situation like in France

My attitude towards Reform - (note I mean the political party and Farage (well, technically it's a limited company), not those who may have voted for it) - is instructed by my conviction that I think they're an evolutionary dead end in politics, pandering towards base instincts and peddling lies. Pining for a nonsensical idealised version of the UK that never really existed in the first place, and even if it did, it's not coming back.

The demographics of politics have changed, people are not moving to the right as they get older as used to be the case, so as the current older waves of right wing voters die off, there aren't fresh crops of folks moving into those age categories who'll be converted to the ranks.

This is already an observed phenomenon (it's been happening for a while). and IMO it's not going to change, it's baked in. So if you look at the chart below, what's happening is that the lines are just moving down in broadly the same percentages as they already are i.e. people are getting older but their voting allegiances aren't changing. Or at least, not much.

Also, the Tories lost far more votes and seats to the Lib Dems at the election than they did to Reform, there are a lot of centrist Tories who abhor everything Farage and Reform stand for, and they will cast their vote Lib Dem if they get pissed off enough with the Tories.

So what's going to happen is the lines representing 60-69 and 70+ below, over the next 15-20 years, will be replaced by the lines that are 40-49 and 50-59, you can see what that does to the vote shares!

 

[goatwack]

In what had been billed the first Lame Duck meeting in Anglo-American history, Starmer took to Keir Force One to join the ranks of world leaders humouring the President, in that carer/ old patient kinda way.

There's no denying it was a little awkward to witness between these two statesmen. One was overwhelmed, a little confused as to his whereabouts and somewhat lost, but Biden soon reassured him by urging Keir to "Give me your hand, pal" to put him at ease.

The tightening of the Transatlantic Knot assured, there was also talk of becoming closer with our European partners, among other things.

Keir seemed aghast that anyone could even serve past 80, but given Biden's state, I think he has a point!

Definitely a collector's piece, and something we won't see repeated in 2029.

".....and then I told them we'd rebuild the country!"

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I said he damaged the perception of parliament, you're telling me (or yelling) that's untrue?

Starting and finishing points
View attachment 198789

View attachment 198790

A lot of the annoyed reform voters had been labour voters, you imply they have no right to be annoyed, I suppose it's the same across Europe, they've never had it so good so should shut up and embrace the centre left 'progression'?

He might have done a bit, for some folks who like to do Westminster watching perhaps, but the idea that Bercow's behaviour is even in the same ballpark when it comes to damaging politics (parliament specifically or otherwise), compared to Johnson's foul antics and Truss's biblical incompetence, on the wider stage, is rather fanciful.

I mean, I was pretty horrified that Johnson illegally prorogued parliament and sent Rees-Mogg to lie to the Queen, but here on CM it was positively cheered for because it was GETTING BREXIT DONE

 

[pinnit2014]

To compare Bercows damaging of the perception of integrity of Parliament, whilst at the same time thinking Bo-Jo is ok, is pretty mad - both did, but Johnson did so on a national scale, Bercow to a % of that. I mean, when you have someone sticking two fingers up to a select committee, with the majority of them being Tory, gee whiz!

 

[pinnit2014]

My attitude towards Reform - (note I mean the political party and Farage (well, technically it's a limited company), not those who may have voted for it) - is instructed by my conviction that I think they're an evolutionary dead end in politics, pandering towards base instincts and peddling lies. Pining for a nonsensical idealised version of the UK that never really existed in the first place, and even if it did, it's not coming back.

The demographics of politics have changed, people are not moving to the right as they get older as used to be the case, so as the current older waves of right wing voters die off, there aren't fresh crops of folks moving into those age categories who'll be converted to the ranks.

This is already an observed phenomenon (it's been happening for a while). and IMO it's not going to change, it's baked in. So if you look at the chart below, what's happening is that the lines are just moving down in broadly the same percentages as they already are i.e. people are getting older but their voting allegiances aren't changing. Or at least, not much.

Also, the Tories lost far more votes and seats to the Lib Dems at the election than they did to Reform, there are a lot of centrist Tories who abhor everything Farage and Reform stand for, and they will cast their vote Lib Dem if they get pissed off enough with the Tories.

So what's going to happen is the lines representing 60-69 and 70+ below, over the next 15-20 years, will be replaced by the lines that are 40-49 and 50-59, you can see what that does to the vote shares!

View attachment 198795

You forgot to mention British Values

Yep, there's been a good bit of analysis of voting patterns in the recent years and the general consensus albeit with pollster error), is that people are staying lefter for longer than longer than previous years where (mortgages, interest rates etc) tend to kick in and you'd see a right migration. Compounded by the fact that, as a generation under Conservative rule, they are perhaps even less likely to 'convert'.

We are subject to the more extreme view of Tories in terms of media coverage but if you look, particularly on the back benches, there are a lot of conservatives who, to quote Kemi/Suella, speak some 'common sense'

 

[mack341]

He might have done a bit, for some folks who like to do Westminster watching perhaps, but the idea that Bercow's behaviour is even in the same ballpark when it comes to damaging politics (parliament specifically or otherwise), compared to Johnson's foul antics and Truss's biblical incompetence, on the wider stage, is rather fanciful.

I mean, I was pretty horrified that Johnson illegally prorogued parliament and sent Rees-Mogg to lie to the Queen, but here on CM it was positively cheered for because it was GETTING BREXIT DONE

Well, Johnson was basically a car crash, people will still love him in a certain way though, but perhaps not place too much faith in him.

Reform is in parliament, with nearly 40% of labour's total vote count, because people have lost respect for the way things have been going, but you just wave that away as a 'dying' irrelevance.

Some kind of European come together would be fine, but not a power grab organisation like the EU.

That's the difference between sensible thinking and ideological, discarding traditional, national forms of govt that have served us well by and large.

Where we can change who's in charge, be less point if Brussels makes most of the decisions.

 

[pinnit2014]

TBH, i'd disagree with Chopley in dismissing Reform - you don't capture the millions of votes they gained for nothing - whether you agree or not with them, the votes are there and sorry, Choppers, it's more than a few disgruntled pensioners, especially if you combine their and the Tory vote. I mean you just need to look over the channel to see the effects and if you merge their and the tory vote to Labours/Left in certain age groups, it's a knife edge - the left has always suffered from this intellectually superior viewpoint, that leaves them open to being caught off guard/sleeping.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

TBH, i'd disagree with Chopley in dismissing Reform - you don't capture the millions of votes they gained for nothing - whether you agree or not with them, the votes are there and sorry, Choppers, it's more than a few disgruntled pensioners, especially if you combine their and the Tory vote. I mean you just need to look over the channel to see the effects and if you merge their and the tory vote to Labours/Left in certain age groups, it's a knife edge - the left has always suffered from this intellectually superior viewpoint, that leaves them open to being caught off guard/sleeping.

I covered this a couple of pages back:

General Election 2024 Thread - Page 23 - Casinomeister Forum

Starmer won't be blind to what's just happened in France either, although we need to be mindful of the fact that when it came to the second round (and everyone voting in those French elections knew there was a second round coming), the far right party was kicked into third place. But yes, he'll be very aware of the fact that if he doesn't make the country a better place in the next five years, he'll be out on his ear.

As for Reform's vote in numerical terms, they fielded a lot of paper candidates, many of whom weren't seen at all in their constituencies, didn't turn up for the hustings, and were only on the ballot paper at all to boost overall votes cast despite there being no meaningful attempt to win the seats. (I guess that does then slightly feed into who the hell voted for essentially invisible candidates, but there we go.)

It's not quite as simple as adding Reform and Tory votes together to see if they'd have won a seat, but Farage definitely did Labour a solid favour in splattering his populist nonsense up and down the land this election.

If I were making one of CHOPLEY'S SPLENDID PREDICTIONS it'd be that Labour will win the next general election, and Reform will have largely melted away by that time, as Farage's shtick will have worn thin by then, and Starmer will make a go of things to build a proper support base for Labour. As this moment in time I don't see the Tories turning their shit around in one electoral cycle, but I think they'll be back in the game at least.

Clearly I am inviting being hoist by own petard in five years time with that prediction, but I'm feeling lucky.

 

[thr0b]

TBH, i'd disagree with Chopley in dismissing Reform - you don't capture the millions of votes they gained for nothing - whether you agree or not with them, the votes are there and sorry, Choppers, it's more than a few disgruntled pensioners, especially if you combine their and the Tory vote. I mean you just need to look over the channel to see the effects and if you merge their and the tory vote to Labours/Left in certain age groups, it's a knife edge - the left has always suffered from this intellectually superior viewpoint, that leaves them open to being caught off guard/sleeping.

I rather suspect they voted for Nigel, not Reform. And when he gets bored, they’ll follow him to his next limited company.

Same as when Boris got sacked, the voters left the Tory party.

People keep thinking we’re voting for a president, not a party. And even if you believe Farage to be a competent, non-fascist, non-cunt, the company he currently heads has been bringing a hell of a lot of racist, fascist cunts along for the ride.

 

[thr0b]

As for Reform's vote in numerical terms, they fielded a lot of paper candidates, many of whom weren't seen at all in their constituencies, didn't turn up for the hustings, and were only on the ballot paper at all to boost overall votes cast despite there being no meaningful attempt to win the seats. (I guess that does then slightly feed into who the hell voted for essentially invisible candidates, but there we go.)

Most of the candidates weren’t even there to win - they were friends and relatives of existing company employees. It was a show to get the numbers and votes in - which split the Tory vote again, same as they did in the previous incarnation as the Brexit party.

If many of them HAD got in, they’d have been fucked, and would’ve resigned within weeks, as they never wanted to be MPs. It was all a way of getting the short money.

Effectively - free money from the taxpayer to fund Nigel’s limited company of which he has significant control at Companies House.

Never intended to win, just to make money for his company. All perfectly legal and above board, but just the kind of trick you’d expect from a hedge fund type.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Most of the candidates weren’t even there to win - they were friends and relatives of existing company employees. It was a show to get the numbers and votes in - which split the Tory vote again, same as they did in the previous incarnation as the Brexit party.

If many of them HAD got in, they’d have been fucked, and would’ve resigned within weeks, as they never wanted to be MPs. It was all a way of getting the short money.

Effectively - free money from the taxpayer to fund Nigel’s limited company of which he has significant control at Companies House.

Never intended to win, just to make money for his company. All perfectly legal and above board, but just the kind of trick you’d expect from a hedge fund type.

This is the thing, the whole Reform affair is quite clearly a grift, from a notorious grifter, and one who is as 'establishment' and 'elite' as any of the 'elite establishment' he proclaims to be fighting against on behalf of the common man.

And yet people are lining up to say NIGEL SPEAKS FOR ME off the back of a manifesto so magical it may as well come with unicorns on every page, as he trousers all the cash (into the limited company) and literally laughs all the way to the bank.

He's already started stabbing his own people in the back to consolidate the grift (Ben Habib being the patsy this time, couldn't have happened to a nicer Brexit idiot), and I still await with interest to see how much of a dedicated MP he is for Clacton over the course of the next parliament....

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Reform UK is a limited company. Not a political party. Anyone who joins or donates is simply tipping cash into their pockets.

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[mack341]

Reform UK is a limited company. Not a political party. Anyone who joins or donates is simply tipping cash into their pockets.

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View attachment 198798

Oh wow: "like Farage, Tice, and Habib, Harborne was privately educated." Better get out the witch burning gear!

Renting premises and hiring staff etc... costs a pretty packet, they can hardly operate a national party from Nige's mobile

In the ideal world all the costs would be covered by members (average folk, not financiers etc).

If this exerts undue influence and is not in the direction the public are happy with, it'll be a short-lived experiment.

Bound to be plenty of shady, wealthy individuals giving money to labour or the Tories also.

 

[lockinlove]

Should I go on a rant o r should I not? Been a long time since I stirred up a political fuss on here haha.

I have to be careful though, dont wanna get doxxed. Here in Canada its being run but very seriously woke government/government employees.

 

[goatwack]

If parties survived solely in £5.70 p/m memberships or merely £25 per annum then they'd fold and people would appoint local chieftains to run their areas.

The big parties in particular are completely steeped in rich benefactors, hardly a secret now, is it?

And no, Starmer, Reeves and many others are all of the same stock, privately educated, well-to-do from prominent backgrounds, whose parents would never entertain the notion of sending them to state school.

Imagine then thinking that most of the current Labour lot aren't rich or supremely privileged, as that honour belongs to Conservatives and Reform?

You'd have to be fairly deluded to believe Sir Keir Starmer is nothing like the Tories on status and wealth, or Farage, and will exhibit about as much empathy for your average low-income Brit as the previous administration had

 

[pinnit2014]

I covered this a couple of pages back:

General Election 2024 Thread - Page 23 - Casinomeister Forum

View attachment 198797

Starmer won't be blind to what's just happened in France either, although we need to be mindful of the fact that when it came to the second round (and everyone voting in those French elections knew there was a second round coming), the far right party was kicked into third place. But yes, he'll be very aware of the fact that if he doesn't make the country a better place in the next five years, he'll be out on his ear.

As for Reform's vote in numerical terms, they fielded a lot of paper candidates, many of whom weren't seen at all in their constituencies, didn't turn up for the hustings, and were only on the ballot paper at all to boost overall votes cast despite there being no meaningful attempt to win the seats. (I guess that does then slightly feed into who the hell voted for essentially invisible candidates, but there we go.)

It's not quite as simple as adding Reform and Tory votes together to see if they'd have won a seat, but Farage definitely did Labour a solid favour in splattering his populist nonsense up and down the land this election.

If I were making one of CHOPLEY'S SPLENDID PREDICTIONS it'd be that Labour will win the next general election, and Reform will have largely melted away by that time, as Farage's shtick will have worn thin by then, and Starmer will make a go of things to build a proper support base for Labour. As this moment in time I don't see the Tories turning their shit around in one electoral cycle, but I think they'll be back in the game at least.

Clearly I am inviting being hoist by own petard in five years time with that prediction, but I'm feeling lucky

I think time will pass and Reform will probably implode - there's too much ego with 3/4 people in there. Even Andersons man of the people, REAL people, is grating - and by that stage he'll be onto his 29th political party. Or getting people to eat cat food on GB News, with JRM.

Starmer will probably like a couple of quick hit, quick wins so will be interesting to see that balanced against long term reform (not the capital)

You'd think those who send their kids to private school would get a tax rebate for not burdening the state, rather than VAT added on though (if they're savvy they'll put it through their books and claim it back)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

And no, Starmer, Reeves and many others are all of the same stock, privately educated, well-to-do from prominent backgrounds, whose parents would never entertain the notion of sending them to state school.

Lord almighty, Starmer was not privately educated. By all means let's have a Mrs Merton style heated debate, but some accuracy on the facts would be useful.

He was at a selective state school (because he was very clever) that became private after he'd been there for two years, and no fees for were paid for him (or by his parents) finishing his education there.

Reeves went to a state comprehensive school.

And look, there are stats and everything! You'll note Starmer's cabinet is the least privileged ever in terms of private education.

 

[goatwack]

Lord almighty, Starmer was not privately educated. By all means let's have a Mrs Merton style heated debate, but some accuracy on the facts would be useful.

He was at a selective state school (because he was very clever) that became private after he'd been there for two years, and no fees for were paid for him (or by his parents) finishing his education there.

Reeves went to a state comprehensive school.

View attachment 198799

And look, there are stats and everything! You'll note Starmer's cabinet is the least privileged ever in terms of private education.

View attachment 198800

Yet more delusion!

Harvard, London School of Economics, Oxford et al, all attended and earnt through academic prowess I suppose. Gimme a break

All completely unattainable were it not for their privileged background, the likes of which many other, equally capable people would not even get remotely close to.

But ok, we'll go with how the current cabinet are all from working class backgrounds and are destitute

 

[pinnit2014]

Lord almighty, Starmer was not privately educated. By all means let's have a Mrs Merton style heated debate, but some accuracy on the facts would be useful.

He was at a selective state school (because he was very clever) that became private after he'd been there for two years, and no fees for were paid for him (or by his parents) finishing his education there.

Reeves went to a state comprehensive school.

View attachment 198799

And look, there are stats and everything! You'll note Starmer's cabinet is the least privileged ever in terms of private education.

View attachment 198800

And yet a Labour Party, born from the ashes in Scotland, have a SIR

Up the workers!

 

[mack341]

Should I go on a rant o r should I not? Been a long time since I stirred up a political fuss on here haha.

I have to be careful though, dont wanna get doxxed. Here in Canada its being run but very seriously woke government/government employees.

One of my concerns is the uk labour party turning into a Trudeau style outfit, however only see bits and pieces on Twitter/news re Canada. Slightly hard to keep up!

One item mentioned your population has increased by 8% in a short period, all due to immigration (whereas we're very unhappy with ours at 1-2%).

Housing costs have gone up etc...plus new woke laws unabated.

 

[lockinlove]

One of my concerns is the uk labour party turning into a Trudeau style outfit, however only see bits and pieces on Twitter/news re Canada. Slightly hard to keep up!

One item mentioned your population has increased by 8% in a short period, all due to immigration (whereas we're very unhappy with ours at 1-2%).

Housing costs have gone up etc...plus new woke laws unabated.

Justin Trudeau has become the worst Prime Minister in the history of Canada. His approvals ratings are terrible even some of his MPs want him to resign.

He has gone way too far.

He has created insane inflation, insane housing prices, crazy gas prices and a lot of it has to do with his bs carbon tax.

The USA and Mexico do not have this. Canada being the only one is a joke and theft and it is destroying family finances here.

The left agenda in North america is killing people. His mass immigration is shocking even liberal voters want him to stop. But he is importing millions constantly to buy votes. He has created this housing crisis here because of it. Anything in Southern Ontario, is full of Indians now. He has brought in millions of people from India. Many muslims here hate all of us and attack our universities and demand the death of jews.

Trudeau refuses to resign because he is arrogant, power hungry and destined on destroying everyone.

He is going to give the conservatives here a super majority. Im happy the liberals will be gone but any party having a majority is just not good. Conservatives tend to cut education and health care which is never good for a country but they are by far the lesser or all.

The liberals here are bordering on pedophiles. Most people do not care whether you are gay or straight, everyone lives their own lives. But they have started pushing it onto little kids in our schools. No child should be taught sexual preference. A child should be taught math, science, english etc. They have drag queens go into kids classes..many of these are found out afterwards to have sex crimes or engage in sex crimes.

We just had gay pride here and I am not kidding you when I tell you men were parading around dancing totally nude going up to children and swingning their dicks around in front of them. When people complained to the police they would say "sorry we cant do anything. We have been told by the government to allow it".

The last few times I have been out and about, my daughter who is 8 went to use the bathroom only to come out and tell me there was a man in there. This has happened 3 times in the last month. It is just craziness...pure craziness. So now I use the family washroom only and lock the door. Men here are openly bragging they can go and check out females in the bathrooms and its a free for all and nobody will do anything about it.

I dont know wtf is going in the world or who is pushing it but from what I gather, it is the revenge of the nerds. All the kids that were bullied, not invited to parties and events have become liberal politicians who are angry, mentally ill lunatics. Either that, or there is some world agenda to destroy 1st world countries.

I went into TD bank here to open a seperate account and the lady asked me "How do I refer to you, He/Him She/Her they/them". I said wtf are you talking about? What do I look like? She said the banks have been forced to ask this. I got up and left.

What a fucked up era. Alberta is the only province left that is truly Canadian. The rest of it is poisoned.

We see videos on the UK that they have had mass immigration by muslims and that muslims are taking over and do not like the English and are trying to change their laws. Not sure if thats true but thats what we see here.

It totally enrages me. I have family who are die hard liberals. They went to all their conventions, dinners and voting booths to help. Even they told me they wont vote this time because they dont approve of what he is doing.

If Biden is re-elected and Trudeau you can basically say goodbye to both countries. They will be over run with this mental illness. Tonnes of my friends have got up and moved to Alberta as its th eonly safe haven from the madness. I might be next. Im waiting til next election to see the results. If somehow Liberals are re-elected, I have a job offer in Alberta waiting for me I will take.

Most Canadians here just try and work and partake in their kids lives they dont really notice the nonsense but are just starting to.

I havent read this thread or how people are feeling but if you feel strong enough a certain way, get off your couch and vote.

 

[Webzcas]

It is a fact that many 'successful' politicians who rise to prominent positions have a very good education. Take Starmer for one, his Alma Mater is very good.

Indeed to be able debate at a high level and there is no higher in the UK than in the lower house in parliament, you not only have to possess a great level of education, but also be able to think very quickly on your feet.

Is it any wonder that the likes of Tony Blair, Keir Starmer et al all come from a legal background. Even David Lammy went to Harvard and was called to the BAR in 1994.

So yes it is understandable that in the main the vast majority of successful politicians come from private educated backgrounds.

But so what?

For example David Lammy could easily out debate anyone on this forum, still doesn't mean I am over the moon that he is representing the UK on the international stage LOL

I don't understand the hate the private education sector gets. I am sure if anyone was in the position to send their children to a private school, they would seriously consider it.

Caveat: I myself went to private school up to the age of 14. State school from 14 - 16

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with a private education, I think it can be a problem when vast swathes of the political class, or a single party, or nearly entire cabinets of government ministers, come from backgrounds that tend to be more privileged. It's not that they're incapable of empathy and understanding, but there can be a disconnect from their lived experience and what's really going on.

(Sunak's 'Sky TV' moment being a case in point.)

Keir Starmer had what you might call a fairly solid middle class upbringing, he passed the Eleven Plus so was able to go to a selective state school, the first from his family to go to university, and a very high achiever. I mean, that's what we want for people in our country isn't it? To be able to succeed?

Angela Rayner came from a background of extreme poverty, her mother was illiterate, and she left school with no formal qualifications, now she's deputy Prime Minister of the UK - there's a story of succeeding in the face of adversity. I don't care for the abuse she gets on these forums and frankly refuse to engage with it because I find it disgusting.

I do have a problem with Labour politicians getting kicked for having any sort of 'favourable circumstances' in their lives, like you can't be a 'proper lefty' unless you were dragged down the coal mines at the age of 6 or something. And if anyone from those backgrounds does succeed they're then condemned as being 'champagne socialists', to which I'm like, 'Hang on, we want people to be able to get on in life and escape poverty, right?'

There's a great interview with Angela Rayner here:

 

[Webzcas]

@ChopleyIOM giving you a shield, because personally I cannot disagree with a single word you have written. On this particular topic we are both in agreement.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I think time will pass and Reform will probably implode - there's too much ego with 3/4 people in there. Even Andersons man of the people, REAL people, is grating - and by that stage he'll be onto his 29th political party. Or getting people to eat cat food on GB News, with JRM.

They have five MPs, two of whom are technically his boss. So his job as Chief Whip is basically to keep himself in line, and two other people

Hey look children, your Dad is now CHIEF ADMIRAL of the holiday!

 

[goatwack]

Yes, there's a lot to be admired about a woman like Angela Rayner, she who cannot control her yobbish impulses in Parliament and shoots her mouth at will.

Oh and let's not forget her two homes escapades, one home being purchased via the Council's Right to Buy, as she champions 'ordinary folk' not be able to do the same, as that would give them too much agency, or even a modicum of status, something that doesn't tie in to the commie mantra!

Just another hypocrite, "Do as I say, don't do as I do" type. Imagine actually holding her in esteem......says it all

 

[Webzcas]

To be fair and yes I am tarring all with the same brush, but come on, what politician isn't in politics for themselves? Yes they may well be guided by doing right for their constituents, but the expenses scandal exposed by the Telegraph, proved that they all have their noses in the trough to some extent.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yes, there's a lot to be admired about a woman like Angela Rayner, she who cannot control her yobbish impulses in Parliament and shoots her mouth at will.

Oh and let's not forget her two homes escapades, one home being purchased via the Council's Right to Buy, as she champions 'ordinary folk' not be able to do the same, as that would give them too much agency, or even a modicum of status, something that doesn't tie in to the commie mantra!

Just another hypocrite, "Do as I say, don't do as I do" type. Imagine actually holding her in esteem......says it all

Women 'shooting their mouths off' eh? Back to the kitchen with them!

As for the home escapades, you mean the ones that the police eventually investigated after a right wing media witch hunt and concluded she'd done absolutely nothing wrong?

It's all so obtuse it's hard to even get through the explanation, and if she had done something wrong, we'd be talking about £1500 in unpaid tax at the most.

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The amusing thing is this terrible story of Angela Rayner having done nothing wrong was brought to light in a book written by the obscenely wealthy Tory peer Lord Ashcroft, famously a non-dom who avoided millions upon millions of pounds of UK tax by offshoring as much of his empire as he possibly could (in Belize, fact fans).

Oh yes and he also lied about having given up his non-dom status, something which came to light in the Paradise Papers.

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Blimey Angela Rayner eh? What a rotter, what with her 'talking' and 'living in a house'

 

[goatwack]

Women 'shooting their mouths off' eh? Back to the kitchen with them!

As for the home escapades, you mean the ones that the police eventually investigated after a right wing media witch hunt and concluded she'd done absolutely nothing wrong?

It's all so obtuse it's hard to even get through the explanation, and if she had done something wrong, we'd be talking about £1500 in unpaid tax at the most.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The amusing thing is this terrible story of Angela Rayner having done nothing wrong was brought to light in a book written by the obscenely wealthy Tory peer Lord Ashcroft, famously a non-dom who avoided millions upon millions of pounds of UK tax by offshoring as much of his empire as he possibly could (in Belize, fact fans).

Oh yes and he also lied about having given up his non-dom status, something which came to light in the Paradise Papers.

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Blimey Angela Rayner eh? What a rotter, what with her 'talking' and 'living in a house'

Nice deflection and strawmanning, with a dash of projection thrown in there, well done!

Further proof that you don't read others' posts but choose to cherry-pick whatever trigger words suit!

Don't know where you got 'Women belong in the kitchen' from, there's many professional women in numerous parties that don't behave like her....

Which, incidentally, is no less the stereotype act as much as Johnson's buffoonery and bluster, except with her it's the portrayal of a working class Northern woman which she takes to craft her image. If you don't believe they all ham it up, and get selectively 'outraged' (a la Johnson) then you're more gullible than I thought!

Yet again, if you'd found the time in between stroking your superiority complex, you'll see that I mentioned your idol's willing to scrap the Right to Buy scheme after having exploited it for profit herself!

Maybe time to stop lubricating yourself in your own self-importance and try engaging in debate, eh old chap?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Nice deflection and strawmanning, with a dash of projection thrown in there, well done!

Further proof that you don't read others' posts but choose to cherry-pick whatever trigger words suit!

Don't know where you got 'Women belong in the kitchen' from, there's many professional women in numerous parties that don't behave like her....

Which, incidentally, is no less the stereotype act as much as Johnson's buffoonery and bluster, except with her it's the portrayal of a working class Northern woman which she takes to craft her image. If you don't believe they all ham it up, and get selectively 'outraged' (a la Johnson) then you're more gullible than I thought!

Yet again, if you'd found the time in between stroking your superiority complex, you'll see that I mentioned your idol's willing to scrap the Right to Buy scheme after having exploited it for profit herself!

Maybe time to stop lubricating yourself in your own self-importance and try engaging in debate, eh old chap?

Why not watch (or listen to) the interview with her and then appraise? I've linked it just above.

I'm literally watching an interview with Theresa May right now, it's useful to learn about people.

 

[dunover]

Why not watch (or listen to) the interview with her and then appraise? I've linked it just above.

I'm literally watching an interview with Theresa May right now, it's useful to learn about people.

View attachment 198823

Looking at her gives me nightmares, her of the apathetic victory assumption in 2017 that nearly landed us with the dystopian horror of a Corbyn-Sturgeon folie a deux administration. The recipient of chants at Wokestonbury from stoned students and the Krankie vandal. We can now all look back on that with relief in the same way that we do on WWII when afterwards it turned out the British and Germans passed on the option of using poison gas on the battlefields.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Looking at her gives me nightmares, her of the apathetic victory assumption in 2017 that nearly landed us with the dystopian horror of a Corbyn-Sturgeon folie a deux administration. The recipient of chants at Wokestonbury from stoned students and the Krankie vandal. We can now all look back on that with relief in the same way that we do on WWII when afterwards it turned out the British and Germans passed on the option of using poison gas on the battlefields.

What does that even mean? It's like someone trained a malfunctioning AI on your CM history and asked it to write an unhinged diatribe about THE LEFTIES.

It's such a lack of intellectual curiosity though, there are several folks here who seem to enjoy putting the boot into Angela Rayner, and there's an in-depth interview with her, right there, where she talks about all this stuff in her own words (addressing her 'gobbiness', for example), with two excellent interviewers, including Rory Stewart who of course is an ex-Conservative MP.

I watch/listen/read what Tories have to say all the time, crikey even bloody Reform (and the Lib Dems, and the Greens), so at least I'm aware of what's going on across the UK's political landscape.

You know, that 'do your own research' stuff that folks are so keen on these days

 

[goatwack]

First the video on Starmer, now the personable interview with Rayner, with a dash of Theresa May thrown in there, because now their personalities are to win over hearts & minds

People see enough of these servants of the people to decide their merit in office or otherwise. I don't need a bio of Rishi Sunak to see his actions were inept, never mind completely out of touch with the electorate.

Johnson was affable and funny when hosting political satire shows, yet that didn't exempt him from 'critiques' over many years, both pre- and post-PM. Showing soft-lit informal interviews of anyone doesn't preclude their professional conduct.

Maybe we could have a watch party of Trump followed by Farage and see how many opinions are changed

Meanwhile in other news, amiable and misunderstood Justice Secretary Shabana Mahmood laid out plans to release prisoners early, thereby reducing it from 50% of the term served to 40, proclaiming an insta-win on the fight on crime as prisons empty over time!

A sure-fire crime deterrent, sex offenders and Lifers are not to be considered, yet violent offenders serving less than three are to be 'supervised', so completely unworkable.

Making precisely 0 changes to the Tory proposal but running with it anyway, the impact of Justice Minister Lord Timpson's "Only a third of inmates should be in jail" influence will be felt soon enough I'm sure, as the anti-prison advocates make our streets even less safe.

Hurrah!

 

[dunover]

What does that even mean? It's like someone trained a malfunctioning AI on your CM history and asked it to write an unhinged diatribe about THE LEFTIES.

It's such a lack of intellectual curiosity though, there are several folks here who seem to enjoy putting the boot into Angela Rayner, and there's an in-depth interview with her, right there, where she talks about all this stuff in her own words (addressing her 'gobbiness', for example), with two excellent interviewers, including Rory Stewart who of course is an ex-Conservative MP.

I watch/listen/read what Tories have to say all the time, crikey even bloody Reform (and the Lib Dems, and the Greens), so at least I'm aware of what's going on across the UK's political landscape.

You know, that 'do your own research' stuff that folks are so keen on these days

Er..I was referring to Theresa May, not Brayner.

I have no problem with Brayner, she just doesn't bother hiding her lack of breeding and ignorance unlike many of her party colleagues. Therein lies the only real difference. The token dragged-up-in-poverty leftie for the shadow cabinet, Starmer's now checked one of the obligatory boxes with her.

The Tories had Nadine Dorries.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

James Timpson is absolutely the smartest person in the room when it comes to prisons, prison reform, and the futility of locking loads of people up for whom prison is a disaster, whilst costing the state loads of money, and doing nothing to 'protect' the general public from people they don't need protecting from.

I was intrigued by his appointment so took the time out of my day to learn about him.

He also walks the walk, 10% of his staff are ex-offenders who've been to prison.

The good news is there's a long interview with him here that you can ignore, and choose instead to have an ill-informed rant about him here at CM

Anyway, the prisons are literally going to be completely full in a couple of weeks, yet another of the Tories' toxic legacies of government by performative cruelty.

 

[goatwack]

James Timpson is absolutely the smartest person in the room when it comes to prisons, prison reform, and the futility of locking loads of people up for whom prison is a disaster, whilst costing the state loads of money, and doing nothing to 'protect' the general public from people they don't need protecting from.

I was intrigued by his appointment so took the time out of my day to learn about him.

He also walks the walk, 10% of his staff are ex-offenders who've been to prison.

The good news is there's a long interview with him here that you can ignore, and choose instead to have an ill-informed rant about him here at CM

Anyway, the prisons are literally going to be completely full in a couple of weeks, yet another of the Tories' toxic legacies of government by performative cruelty.

Rant?

Making precisely 0 changes to the Tory proposal but running with it anyway, the impact of Justice Minister Lord Timpson's "Only a third of inmates should be in jail" influence will be felt soon enough I'm sure, as the anti-prison advocates make our streets even less safe

Whew, look at that! Two-and-a-half paragraphs of vitriol!

But yes, let's all witness James Timpson's vouching to empty overcrowded prisons and release dangerous criminals back in to the public domain, as he's the the only person ever to be fully aware of the situation!

" "

 

[dunover]

Bloody hell! A new level of pseudo-intellectual arrogance from Chopley! Ignore my take, ignore my propaganda video and you will be 'ill-informed'!! The Labour win is going to your head pal. I'm sure letting violent offenders out if sentenced to under 4 years would've been a real vote winner.

As someone who doesn't even reside in the UK and never voted in the election, you certainly act like you have plenty of skin in the game.

I'm sure the country's leftists will sleep well knowing a non-resident shares their social conscience. Er...that is until the unmetered third world migration, social issues, crime wave and terrorism land on their doorstep. Which of course aids your divide and conquer ethos.

 

[itsme123]

Bloody hell! A new level of pseudo-intellectual arrogance from Chopley! Ignore my take, ignore my propaganda video and you will be 'ill-informed'!! The Labour win is going to your head pal. I'm sure letting violent offenders out if sentenced to under 4 years would've been a real vote winner.

As someone who doesn't even reside in the UK and never voted in the election, you certainly act like you have plenty of skin in the game.

I'm sure the country's leftists will sleep well knowing a non-resident shares their social conscience. Er...that is until the unmetered third world migration, social issues, crime wave and terrorism land on their doorstep. Which of course aids your divide and conquer ethos.

Didn’t Keir and co sign a public letter to stop a deportation to the Caribbean that included a person who later went on to murder someone not long after?
Is it really a surprise when you look at that fact , plus he was never bothered about JS when he was the big cheese , that they are letting convicted criminals out early?