General Election 2024 Thread

I’d like Labour to just say - “you know those potholes, the health service, pensions and that? They don’t come for free, so if you want that hole filling in, the holes in the finances also have to be filled in.”

I don’t mind paying a bit more tax for things to function as intended. The Tories are appealing only to a dying audience. (And that audience isn’t, and has never been on Twitter.)
It's the whole social contract, or in the UK, the breakdown of it, that's the problem - i don't think people mind 'getting what you pay for' so whilst the UK sits mid table tax wise, the performance of publics services doesn't even match that.

I think, last time of looking and not googling, when they polled people in the Scandinavian countries, despite having a higher tax burden than here they were happy as they good good services in return.
 
The papers are now finally admitting that Labour will be elected most papers are now doing headlines to justify that and the likes of the mail and some others are still trying to warn everyone to stop Labour from getting a super majority. I mean that basically shows you they know the end of the tories is around the corner they just do not want to see them wiped out.

Because lets face it most of the papers was and probably still are conservative ass lickers.

I will be totally fucking honest now. The tories are total fucking scum, they are privileged rich posh entitled ass wipes that are so out of touch with the general population apart from the rich folk or colleagues, that when you ask 1 of them a basic question they can not even answer because they are totally fucking clueless all they do is constantly lie and cheat and care only for themselves.

The tories are gone and I suspect the conservative party will be history. What replaces them will be far fucking worse as well. Because that will be far right and I mean far right even headed to the dangerous end.

So yeah fuck off you conservative scum who have fucked this county up so you can keep making shit tonnes of money while everyone else suffers and dies. NHS Fucked, Benefit system fucked, Social care fucked, Dental services fucked, Roads falling apart full of pot holes, Buildings falling down, Housing in crisis and fucked, Immigration fucked, EVERYTHING is fucked because of the scum tories.

I had to get this of my chest sorry for all the swearing but I am so pissed of with what they have done they have fucking blood on their hands hundreds and thousands have died because of those scum bags.
I think this election has shown how little the papers though seem to care - as Chopley pointed out, a lot of the headlines and stories have been half arsed at best - whether it's because papers are less influential than years before (and trying to curry favour with Murdoch etc, i don't know), not sure.

Careful what u wish for though, if you hate Tories, you're gonna love Reform :laugh:
 
Sounds like starmer might be taking the problem of open door immigration seriously, I'm warming to him slightly, he may be the labour equivalent of John Major but if he manages to fix/improve the working of govt, he'll have achieved more than bojo and sunak could.



I think when yourself and Chopley are 'favouring' Starmer, poor Choppers must be having a coronary: hope he manages to get a decent NHS worker though who Starmer hasn't put on the plane :p
 
So then, the UK General Election, which I'm sure we were talking about..... :D

The Tories appear to have just lost their shit at this point in time, this is their official Twitter account.

It reminds me a bit of in The Shining where Jack Nicholson goes mad and keeps typing 'All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy' over and over and over on his typewriter.

View attachment 198405
I thought you HAD to be joking this time.

But no, you weren't. I just checked. They REALLY DID ACTUALLY JUST DO THAT.

I'm sorry (well, no I'm not actually) for what I am about to do (I've done it on this forum many times before and will probably do it many times more), but this simply has to be done....



AND.....

Your screenshot doesn't even tell the whole story.
I had to page down fourteen times (FOURTEEN!?!? WTAF?!) before I finally reached the end of the tweet, which didn't even end with a correctly spelt tax (it was spelt "ta-")
What the hell happened to the 140 (or 280) characters limit?
That was more like 20,000 characters long. Good grief.

That is cringeworthy, beyond pathetic and dare I say it, a rather childish effort.
Fucking embarrassing. They've lost more than just the plot, they have lost the whole bloody acre.
Even a histrionist (thanks for that btw, never been called that before :D) such as myself wouldn't do THAT.

I still wouldn't vote Labour though :laugh: *

* Sorry old chap....I had to sneak that one in. To paraphrase Mrs. Thatcher...

the political atheist's not for turning
 
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You need to cut Chopley a break - he's being 'made' to vote for a Tory in a red tie - he's the son of a toolmaker don't cha know 😆

The three main parties in the running are centre right, Right and Bat Shit nuts.

What a time to be alive!

And yet with the bat shit nuts party (I'm assuming Reform) at least you know what you get. How low do you have to sink to look like an absolute turd when debating Rishi Sunak? But alas Keir has managed to do that with the latest debate. Looked like a wet flannel and when under pressure to provide a reasonable answer was full of bluster and deflected to what the Tories haven't done which only works so much until you actually have to produce something.
 
And yet with the bat shit nuts party (I'm assuming Reform) at least you know what you get. How low do you have to sink to look like an absolute turd when debating Rishi Sunak? But alas Keir has managed to do that with the latest debate. Looked like a wet flannel and when under pressure to provide a reasonable answer was full of bluster and deflected to what the Tories haven't done which only works so much until you actually have to produce something.
I agree - i much prefer parties that i know where they stand - ideologically, i despise Reform but yes, they at least have their colours nailed to the mast. So, debate them.

Look at Scottish Labour here - pronouncing a GB Energy set up....funded by Venture Capitalists. Might not have agreed or even voted for the '74 Labour Manifesto but at least they were what they said on the tin - this current labour party isn't even Labour.
 
I thought you HAD to be joking this time.

But no, you weren't. I just checked. They REALLY DID ACTUALLY JUST DO THAT.

I'm sorry (well, no I'm not actually) for what I am about to do (I've done it on this forum many times before and will probably do it many times more), but this simply has to be done....



AND.....

Your screenshot doesn't even tell the whole story.
I had to page down fourteen times (FOURTEEN!?!? WTAF?!) before I finally reached the end of the tweet, which didn't even end with a correctly spelt tax (it was spelt "ta-")
What the hell happened to the 140 (or 280) characters limit?
That was more like 20,000 characters long. Good grief.

That is cringeworthy, beyond pathetic and dare I say it, a rather childish effort.
Fucking embarrassing. They've lost more than just the plot, they have lost the whole bloody acre.
Even a histrionist (thanks for that btw, never been called that before :D) such as myself wouldn't do THAT.

I still wouldn't vote Labour though :laugh: *

* Sorry old chap....I had to sneak that one in. To paraphrase Mrs. Thatcher...

the political atheist's not for turning

I actually thought it was a Jacob Rees Mogg Tweet.....There was a time, whether you agreed with their Small Govt stance, at least they had some people who carried a bit of decorum, now they seem to have let the fruit cases really seize power.

Makes the DUP seem like quite the progressives :p
 
The whole election will be a farce. Nobody at all I would say I want to vote for.

And now with fact you need photo ID to vote think it will be lowest turnout in a long time.

Choices are slim for me. But like the people that hate the Tories all I can be glad is that up here SNP are virtually done. Independence is gone and next year in Scottish Elections they should lose power.

But looking at the ones I can vote for on list. Lib Dem, well that's pointless. Green Party LOL no chance of me voting for those nutters up here especially after the 2 idiots that were on the SNP'S side. SNP well no way in Hell I would ever vote for that .

So looks like I either do not vote, which I will as any vote against SNP is not wasted.

Or I vote Tory again which I do not want to, or Labour which I think is as bad or Go Fuck it and vote Reform since they are an option.

Pretty Bad when every choice Is nearly as bad as each other except SNP who are just scum of the earth.
 
'are you two really the best we have got' - pretty much summed it up - Sunak wasn't as bad as he usual is but Starmer was bad.

Is kinda like: you want to piss or shit the bed?

Tbh i wouldn't say the SNP are done and Indep wont go away anytime soon/if at all - when i hear the English parties talk, it's a fantastic vote winner for them - i would just let the likes of Frost talk to be their greatest vote winner.

Even Badenoch today with Tennant - constantly telling the electorate colour doesn't matter but when Dr Who comes out with a comment, she wheels out the Colour card :laugh:

What's wrong with voting SNP Paul? You're just taking control back, which was basically Brexit :p
 
The whole election will be a farce. Nobody at all I would say I want to vote for.

And now with fact you need photo ID to vote think it will be lowest turnout in a long time.

Choices are slim for me. But like the people that hate the Tories all I can be glad is that up here SNP are virtually done. Independence is gone and next year in Scottish Elections they should lose power.

But looking at the ones I can vote for on list. Lib Dem, well that's pointless. Green Party LOL no chance of me voting for those nutters up here especially after the 2 idiots that were on the SNP'S side. SNP well no way in Hell I would ever vote for that .

So looks like I either do not vote, which I will as any vote against SNP is not wasted.

Or I vote Tory again which I do not want to, or Labour which I think is as bad or Go Fuck it and vote Reform since they are an option.

Pretty Bad when every choice Is nearly as bad as each other except SNP who are just scum of the earth.
Don't worry about photo ID they're just Psychologically prepping you for whats to come with Digital ID.
 
And yet with the bat shit nuts party (I'm assuming Reform) at least you know what you get. How low do you have to sink to look like an absolute turd when debating Rishi Sunak? But alas Keir has managed to do that with the latest debate. Looked like a wet flannel and when under pressure to provide a reasonable answer was full of bluster and deflected to what the Tories haven't done which only works so much until you actually have to produce something.
1% control the world.
4% are their puppets.
90% are asleep including you.

5% know and try to wake the 90%

The 1% use the 4% to prevent the 5% from waking up the 90%
 
I agree - i much prefer parties that i know where they stand - ideologically, i despise Reform but yes, they at least have their colours nailed to the mast. So, debate them.

Look at Scottish Labour here - pronouncing a GB Energy set up....funded by Venture Capitalists. Might not have agreed or even voted for the '74 Labour Manifesto but at least they were what they said on the tin - this current labour party isn't even Labour.
SHEEPLE

We aren't just fighting the psychopathic "elite" - we are also fighting the narcissistic, brain-dead sheep. It's an uphill climb. They have weaponised the human race against itself.
 
You need to cut Chopley a break - he's being 'made' to vote for a Tory in a red tie - he's the son of a toolmaker don't cha know 😆

The three main parties in the running are centre right, Right and Bat Shit nuts.

What a time to be alive!
Your money is fake, your food and water is being poisoned, all these wars are based on lies, your country is run by a bunch of criminals and you're all too distracted by bullshit to do anything about it.
 
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Pro-tip.

WARNING - May turn you into a SHEEPLE!

1719471110106.webp
 
I don’t watch the debates generally. Pointless as we don’t have a presidential system, so having a popularity contest on the basis of the leader speaking is totally irrelevant. Especially with the Tories, where them having the same leader for more than 12 of the 60 months of their parliamentary term is vanishingly unlikely.
 
And yet with the bat shit nuts party (I'm assuming Reform) at least you know what you get. How low do you have to sink to look like an absolute turd when debating Rishi Sunak? But alas Keir has managed to do that with the latest debate. Looked like a wet flannel and when under pressure to provide a reasonable answer was full of bluster and deflected to what the Tories haven't done which only works so much until you actually have to produce something.

It wasn't a great debate, it's not Starmer's strength at all, Sunak went into hectoring public schoolboy bullying mode, and Starmer just isn't quick enough on his feet to counter it, plus I don't think he's used to fighting dirty like that.

All Starmer needed to do was get through the debate without handing anyone a gun to shoot Labour with, a gun big enough to get outside of the 'debate bubble' (not that many people watch the debates), and he managed that.

Polling showed the debate being called at 50/50, at this stage of the game, that's fine.

As I've been saying for years now, I'm not wildly enthused by Starmer, or what he's done to the Labour Party. I do think a Labour government will be better for most people than the Tories (although that's not saying much), and I do think they'll enact positive changes, albeit their plans are nowhere near radical enough IMO, and they need to spend FAR more money than they've got (announced at least) plans to raise to get our public services back on their feet.

Anyway, the way things are looking by all accounts we're going to find out, as in about a week there'll most likely be a Labour government and Starmer will be in Number 10 Downing Street. For me, at this moment in time, the sweetest victory of all will just be seeing the hateful, despicable Tories being kicked the fuck out.

EDIT - I don't mean 'Tories' as in Tory voters or supporters, or even all Tory MPs, I mean the Tory government and what it's done to the UK in the last fourteen years, most notably the twin calamities of austerity and Brexit, which are two of the most destructive forces ever visited on our country and its society.
 
It wasn't a great debate, it's not Starmer's strength at all, Sunak went into hectoring public schoolboy bullying mode, and Starmer just isn't quick enough on his feet to counter it, plus I don't think he's used to fighting dirty like that.

All Starmer needed to do was get through the debate without handing anyone a gun to shoot Labour with, a gun big enough to get outside of the 'debate bubble' (not that many people watch the debates), and he managed that.

Polling showed the debate being called at 50/50, at this stage of the game, that's fine.

As I've been saying for years now, I'm not wildly enthused by Starmer, or what he's done to the Labour Party. I do think a Labour government will be better for most people than the Tories (although that's not saying much), and I do think they'll enact positive changes, albeit their plans are nowhere near radical enough IMO, and they need to spend FAR more money than they've got (announced at least) plans to raise to get our public services back on their feet.

Anyway, the way things are looking by all accounts we're going to find out, as in about a week there'll most likely be a Labour government and Starmer will be in Number 10 Downing Street. For me, at this moment in time, the sweetest victory of all will just be seeing the hateful, despicable Tories being kicked the fuck out.

EDIT - I don't mean 'Tories' as in Tory voters or supporters, or even all Tory MPs, I mean the Tory government and what it's done to the UK in the last fourteen years, most notably the twin calamities of austerity and Brexit, which are two of the most destructive forces ever visited on our country and its society.

If hectoring public schoolboy bullying mode is asking what are YOU (Starmer) going to do rather than just say what the opposition hasn't done (Which works once or twice) and not coming up with your own concrete answers then fucking hell we're really and truly fucked. Starmer got absolutely swamped and folded under key issues and failed to provide an answer.

At least Rishi when pushed said what he was going to do even if what he said was a shit thing. That whole debate's swung me from Labour to Reform honestly. And that's quite painful to say that but at least I know what I'll be voting for and getting.
 
Like some who have posted here I am old enough to have experienced tough times in the past. Most of us can see the problems: too much spending, too high taxes to pay for it, and too high debt to make up the shortfall. The solution is to make the average man/woman in the street poorer in the short term. We'll get there anyway with whoever wins the election.
 
It wasn't a great debate, it's not Starmer's strength at all, Sunak went into hectoring public schoolboy bullying mode, and Starmer just isn't quick enough on his feet to counter it, plus I don't think he's used to fighting dirty like that.

All Starmer needed to do was get through the debate without handing anyone a gun to shoot Labour with, a gun big enough to get outside of the 'debate bubble' (not that many people watch the debates), and he managed that.

Polling showed the debate being called at 50/50, at this stage of the game, that's fine.

As I've been saying for years now, I'm not wildly enthused by Starmer, or what he's done to the Labour Party. I do think a Labour government will be better for most people than the Tories (although that's not saying much), and I do think they'll enact positive changes, albeit their plans are nowhere near radical enough IMO, and they need to spend FAR more money than they've got (announced at least) plans to raise to get our public services back on their feet.

Anyway, the way things are looking by all accounts we're going to find out, as in about a week there'll most likely be a Labour government and Starmer will be in Number 10 Downing Street. For me, at this moment in time, the sweetest victory of all will just be seeing the hateful, despicable Tories being kicked the fuck out.

EDIT - I don't mean 'Tories' as in Tory voters or supporters, or even all Tory MPs, I mean the Tory government and what it's done to the UK in the last fourteen years, most notably the twin calamities of austerity and Brexit, which are two of the most destructive forces ever visited on our country and its society.
Do you not think that's a problem with Labour though? The idea of 'lets not say anything too wild' as time will take care of things for us? It will bite him in the arse once in power and the knives start coming out i think but it kinda shows how bad we are politically. I mean, not one of the parties is even talking about Brexit as no one wants to rock the boat - it's been the most uninspiring run up to a GL that i can remember. I know Labour pals, like yourself, who think Starmer is holding 10 aces up his sleeve from the 5th July but you'd have to be very naive to think he is.....

I know you're dismissive of Reform and people dismissing them have compared them to UKIP in the past with no seats etc but as Lewis Goodall pointed out, at their height they still got 5m votes plus. There was a piece, in the Guardian i think, that if this continues unabated, labour/the left could have a real problem in 5 years and i get concerned that shouts of: at least the Tories are out, could come back to bite them on the arse.
 
If hectoring public schoolboy bullying mode is asking what are YOU (Starmer) going to do rather than just say what the opposition hasn't done (Which works once or twice) and not coming up with your own concrete answers then fucking hell we're really and truly fucked. Starmer got absolutely swamped and folded under key issues and failed to provide an answer.

At least Rishi when pushed said what he was going to do even if what he said was a shit thing. That whole debate's swung me from Labour to Reform honestly. And that's quite painful to say that but at least I know what I'll be voting for and getting.
I can get and respect that, even though i'd rather be shot into space without a helmet than giving Tice etc validation. Reform make no bones over what they are - i don't like it, but as you said, you put the X down and you know what you're voting for - can the same be said about Labour, other than 'at least it's not a Tory' (yawn) - i don't think so.

Like, or loathe, Harold Wilson and James C must be turning in their grave over this iteration of Labour and Starmer. Think only Starmer could have made Sunak come out of that 'debate' looking semi decent - Keir was bumbling and fluffing so much i had to step back and go: which Party is the one in trouble?
 
So @ChopleyIOM , from a left leaning point off view, what exactly is the problem with betting on the date of the election?
I don’t see a problem, there’s bound to be an election at some stage so why not bet on it?
Is it the poor bookies that people are feeling sorry for? Personally I don’t give a fiddlers if people have a bet on an election, it’s nothing different than get some info on a horse straight from the stables …
And really, is this of any importance in the big scheme of things? Aren’t there more important issues they should all be concerned with?
 
I'll probably chime in with there's a lot in theory wrong with it, particularly if you've been using insider knowledge to financially gain from it (though some of the sums do appears awfully low). Even if they didn't know in advance the date, which is possible as i think Sunak caught his own MP's off guard with it, it's the optics of it as well that pose a issue.

In the wider context, MP's like Phillip Davies betting he'd lose his seat (8k bet), just looks distinctly tawdry at best.

They come under the gambit of a PEP as well - politically exposed and within an ethics framework would be frowned on at best.

From the Gambling Commissions POV it falls under the insider trading rules so it's not a left wing issue, it's a legal view that carries a 2 year prison sentence. As well as breaching various Parliamentary codes of conduct but, given the damage Johnson did to that, it's already in tatters.

Personally? You're meant to hold elected officials in the highest of regards and to the highest of standards and if people think it's ok that these folk use their advantage to their gains, Labour as well are involved in this as well, then i guess we really do deserve what we get.
 
The hypocrisy of some Tory voters as well: it's only 600 quid....yet, these were the same folk calling on Angela Rayner to quit, police involved, with a maximum bill of 1500 quid (cleared over)l

But yeah, as a football fan as well, i'd love it if i found 5/11 players of my team were betting on a game:laugh:

I've found it amusing the likes of Frost claiming the SNP aren't fit to govern cos of 'all their scandals' when the Tories have had more in a month than them in 17 years :laugh:
 
I'll probably chime in with there's a lot in theory wrong with it, particularly if you've been using insider knowledge to financially gain from it (though some of the sums do appears awfully low). Even if they didn't know in advance the date, which is possible as i think Sunak caught his own MP's off guard with it, it's the optics of it as well that pose a issue.

In the wider context, MP's like Phillip Davies betting he'd lose his seat (8k bet), just looks distinctly tawdry at best.

They come under the gambit of a PEP as well - politically exposed and within an ethics framework would be frowned on at best.

From the Gambling Commissions POV it falls under the insider trading rules so it's not a left wing issue, it's a legal view that carries a 2 year prison sentence. As well as breaching various Parliamentary codes of conduct but, given the damage Johnson did to that, it's already in tatters.

Personally? You're meant to hold elected officials in the highest of regards and to the highest of standards and if people think it's ok that these folk use their advantage to their gains, Labour as well are involved in this as well, then i guess we really do deserve what we get.

I don't like to hear of the rats (MPs, advisors) leaving the sinking ship lining their pockets one last time, but if a protection officer or chauffeur overheard something and had a little flutter that wouldn't bother me.
 
Do you not think that's a problem with Labour though? The idea of 'lets not say anything too wild' as time will take care of things for us? It will bite him in the arse once in power and the knives start coming out i think but it kinda shows how bad we are politically. I mean, not one of the parties is even talking about Brexit as no one wants to rock the boat - it's been the most uninspiring run up to a GL that i can remember. I know Labour pals, like yourself, who think Starmer is holding 10 aces up his sleeve from the 5th July but you'd have to be very naive to think he is.....

I know you're dismissive of Reform and people dismissing them have compared them to UKIP in the past with no seats etc but as Lewis Goodall pointed out, at their height they still got 5m votes plus. There was a piece, in the Guardian i think, that if this continues unabated, labour/the left could have a real problem in 5 years and i get concerned that shouts of: at least the Tories are out, could come back to bite them on the arse.

I think where I'm at with it now is see what they do once they're in power. Whatever criticisms one can make of Starmer (and I have loads), he's turned the Labour Party from being essentially unelectable in 2019, to being on the cusp of government, in one electoral cycle - you can't really argue with that in terms of results.

For example I've always found his reticence on Brexit massively frustrating (not least because he was a strong Remainer), but his long game has played out really well, just wait to the side and let Brexit fail on its own terms - (which it was always going to do because it's flawed at a fundamental level and its promises were always going to be broken) - and have people realise for themselves that the Tories have fucked them on it, whilst he (and Labour) steer completely clear of the 'BREXIT BETRAYAL' narrative that the Doolally Mail and Torygraph had waiting to launch at the slightest provocation.

Is it an inspiring strategy? Certainly not. But has it worked? Apparently so.

Starmer is no Boris Johnson, he doesn't have the gift of the gab and he doesn't do rousing speeches, exude charisma and all the rest of it, but they're not qualities we need in a Prime Minister. Boris Johnson was great entertainment, but a disastrous Prime Minister, I used to love it when he hosted Have I Got News For You, he's funny and articulate with that curated bumbling English gent air, but that doesn't mean I'd want him running the country.

At this point I think I'd just settle for some basic competence, even if it is delivered via Starmer's rather centrist and uninspiring manifesto. By all accounts Starmer ran a steady ship at the DPP and was well regarded as a boss, and someone who could get stuff done, and make sure it was all done by the book - which after what we've seen since 2016 from a hapless Tory government, would represent a massive positive change all by itself.

The fact that crossing such a low bar sounds so refreshing is a testament to how fucking awful the Tories have been.

But let's look at one solid commitment that Labour have made, which is to immediately ban Section 21 'no fault' evictions. The Tories promised this back in 2019 and still haven't done it. Guess what, a lot of Tory MPs are landlords and didn't fancy legislating against their own ability to do whatever they wanted to their tenants (and make as much money as possible), so the legislation was repeatedly delayed and watered down. (Private Eye have been covering this for years.)

Those who've been subjected to Section 21 evictions often find the experience extremely traumatic and difficult, as well as financially ruinous, landlords often use them to get rid of tenants who've done nothing wrong just to get rid of them and get someone else in who can pay more money. They can also use them in retaliation if a tenant dares to complain about any defects in the property they're renting, and all sorts of other immoral reasons.

We've never been affected by this as a family, and we're not going to be, we're lucky enough to own our own home, but this is one I'm watching closely as I believe it's a very 'easy win' for Labour to show that they're going to stick by their commitments, and I also believe it's fundamentally what the Labour Party is for, to be on the side of the 'little people' or just normal working folks if you will. It doesn't surprise me that the Tories have never got round to ending Section 21, but I'd expect the Labour Party to honour their commitment to ban them as soon as possible after entering government.

I guess that's a very long-winded way of saying that as dull as this election campaign has been - (well, apart from watching in awe at the Tories' endless ability to self-destruct) - it looks like the end result will be a Labour government, and given that's the case, let's see what they do in their five years and judge them on their merits.

But to get back to your original point, yes, they're going to need some bigger and bolder ideas than we've seen so far to really start to turn things around, because 'basically the same in a lot of ways but we'll be nicer' (which is kind of where they are now) won't be enough.

The most obvious win they can score economically, to give themselves the room to spend where they need to, is on our relationship with the EU, specifically on trade. They can't really go there now because it'll be LABOUR WILL STEAL YOUR BREXIT (even though by all accounts that's what a majority of people in the UK now want!), but maybe once they're in government, they'll find a bit more courage.

Or maybe not..... I guess we're going to find out!
 
I can get and respect that, even though i'd rather be shot into space without a helmet than giving Tice etc validation. Reform make no bones over what they are - i don't like it, but as you said, you put the X down and you know what you're voting for - can the same be said about Labour, other than 'at least it's not a Tory' (yawn) - i don't think so.

Like, or loathe, Harold Wilson and James C must be turning in their grave over this iteration of Labour and Starmer. Think only Starmer could have made Sunak come out of that 'debate' looking semi decent - Keir was bumbling and fluffing so much i had to step back and go: which Party is the one in trouble?

My vote is primarily based on the fact that some of the fiscal policies in Reform are actually sound and well overdue. The Tories, self-proclaimed party for the self-employed over the last 14 years have absolutely decimated the self-employed market and allowed HMRC to become so militant that things that were legal (Tax mitigation) then become not so legal and even worse you're then persecuted for something that was legal back in 1999 today now in 2024 (How does that even work but alas it's there, see loan charge).

The damage the Tories and to a large extent what Labour have done for the self-employed shouldn't be disregarded. People have ended up dying, destitute over the shit that's been pulled and Flip Flop Keir gave me no confidence that he's going to remedy any of that.
 
I agree he's made the party electable (with a caveat), but a large part of that falls on the inadequacy of his incumbents and the fact any party, even one's who've done well in previous years (unlike the current one) will always struggle to get elected as people just sometimes want a change - Churchill and the War was outvoted by Clement A because people regarded his party as the party of the war etc.

But the point is - he's not made a traditional Labour Party electable - i could have gone in, like he did, and weeded the lefties out and gave the right wing media nothing to grasp onto - it's not that clever.

I agree, see that they do but i'd bet my 5000x Bonanza base game win; it ain't gonna be much and yes, the whole 'we inherited....' excuses will be rolled out (i listened to a podcast today from a Labour MP saying exactly that when quizzed as to whether this is a true Labour Party)

As for Brexit - if he had true conviction and, yes it would be political suicide, at least come out and state your position - do you know what Labours position is on immigration and Brexit is, because I don't!

Genuinely never seen a Party going to be elected that i still have no idea what they stand for.
 
My vote is primarily based on the fact that some of the fiscal policies in Reform are actually sound and well overdue. The Tories, self-proclaimed party for the self-employed over the last 14 years have absolutely decimated the self-employed market and allowed HMRC to become so militant that things that were legal (Tax mitigation) then become not so legal and even worse you're then persecuted for something that was legal back in 1999 today now in 2024 (How does that even work but alas it's there, see loan charge).

The damage the Tories and to a large extent what Labour have done for the self-employed shouldn't be disregarded. People have ended up dying, destitute over the shit that's been pulled and Flip Flop Keir gave me no confidence that he's going to remedy any of that.
All the parties spending commitments, if you believe the IFS, fall wildly short - Reforms manifesto is something like a 30billion black hole - though apparently better than Labours - Farage seems to be mooting a low tax but good public services model - that is just crazy. Funded by 90 billion of cuts to the Civil Service? - i think we know there is fat in public sectors but 90billion worth? Errr....

That's the problem with parties in these elections who know they wont be elected though - they can put anything down.

One of the groups up here that cost the SNP the vote was the self employed business groups. -a group left feeling as if they were outcasts under a left wing government, so i get it.
 
Think Starmer must be tempted to have another referendum at some point, going against that would be the upheaval, membership cost and putting public services under even more pressure from the free movement clause.

However, If the average person in the street experiences a negative effect (which they will) they'll be back wanting out; this is different to the 90s and pre eastward expansion 2000s, when EU membership could not be connected to a 'things are getting worse' feeling, it was okay and didn't encroach into British civil life really.
 
I agree he's made the party electable (with a caveat), but a large part of that falls on the inadequacy of his incumbents and the fact any party, even one's who've done well in previous years (unlike the current one) will always struggle to get elected as people just sometimes want a change - Churchill and the War was outvoted by Clement A because people regarded his party as the party of the war etc.

But the point is - he's not made a traditional Labour Party electable - i could have gone in, like he did, and weeded the lefties out and gave the right wing media nothing to grasp onto - it's not that clever.

I agree, see that they do but i'd bet my 5000x Bonanza base game win; it ain't gonna be much and yes, the whole 'we inherited....' excuses will be rolled out (i listened to a podcast today from a Labour MP saying exactly that when quizzed as to whether this is a true Labour Party)

As for Brexit - if he had true conviction and, yes it would be political suicide, at least come out and state your position - do you know what Labours position is on immigration and Brexit is, because I don't!

Genuinely never seen a Party going to be elected that i still have no idea what they stand for.

People need to feel better off after five years of Labour government, and to feel that things around them have got better, that's the challenge.

There are currently over 100,000 (yes, one hundred thousand) vacancies in the NHS, getting those filled would go a long way to alleviating the issues around hospitals and GPs, dentists etc, that'd be a big win for Labour and play to a traditional strength of theirs, and be a visible change that they could point to and say they made it better.

On the economy the mantra they're sticking to is 'growth' and whilst economic growth is good it won't do everything that's required, and free up the money needed to spend into public services, quite what they have up their sleeve I don't exactly know, I hope the answer isn't 'nothing'. (Although it really can't be over-emphasised how much low hanging economic fruit there is in improving trading relations with the EU, such is the size of the hole that Brexit has blown in the UK's economy.)

Starmer may be many things but he isn't a fool, he knows he won't get a second term if Labour can't go into a 2029 election with stuff they can point to and say 'Hey look, we've made this better for you', I don't think Labour will get to play the Tories' sob story card like they did when they won in 2010.
 
Think the expected massive Labour majority is a really good result.When they gain power they will be able to unleash everything the country doesnt need, more tax, much more immigration and woke galore.Going to be like kids in a sweetshop.It will result in chaos the likes of which has never been seen and finally push native british over the edge.
I very much doubt whether Labour will survive a full term and at the election after this they will be decimated.
 
All the parties spending commitments, if you believe the IFS, fall wildly short - Reforms manifesto is something like a 30billion black hole - though apparently better than Labours - Farage seems to be mooting a low tax but good public services model - that is just crazy. Funded by 90 billion of cuts to the Civil Service? - i think we know there is fat in public sectors but 90billion worth? Errr....

That's the problem with parties in these elections who know they wont be elected though - they can put anything down.

One of the groups up here that cost the SNP the vote was the self employed business groups. -a group left feeling as if they were outcasts under a left wing government, so i get it.

I can assure you from working in the public sector that there's enough waste of public funds if done correctly not to get to 90 billion but to at least plug some of that black hole considerably. The amount that consultancies that provide no value (Crapita for instance) get in return is absolutely staggering. And a lot of that money definitely goes offshore and away from being clawed back for the public purse.

The IFS also don't take into consideration that the taxes raised by creating a strong self-employed market by repealing the god awful IR35 and it's revisions over the years. They just see that the repeal of it is going to cost something immediately rather than the value it provides (Even though it's already been proven on numerous occasions that what the Tories has done raises magnitudes less tax just to erode the rights of the self-employed/contractor market).
 
People need to feel better off after five years of Labour government, and to feel that things around them have got better, that's the challenge.

There are currently over 100,000 (yes, one hundred thousand) vacancies in the NHS, getting those filled would go a long way to alleviating the issues around hospitals and GPs, dentists etc, that'd be a big win for Labour and play to a traditional strength of theirs, and be a visible change that they could point to and say they made it better.

On the economy the mantra they're sticking to is 'growth' and whilst economic growth is good it won't do everything that's required, and free up the money needed to spend into public services, quite what they have up their sleeve I don't exactly know, I hope the answer isn't 'nothing'. (Although it really can't be over-emphasised how much low hanging economic fruit there is in improving trading relations with the EU, such is the size of the hole that Brexit has blown in the UK's economy.)

Starmer may be many things but he isn't a fool, he knows he won't get a second term if Labour can't go into a 2029 election with stuff they can point to and say 'Hey look, we've made this better for you', I don't think Labour will get to play the Tories' sob story card like they did when they won in 2010.
You do realise Labour are proposing re-introducing the more community based health care models - the same models they ditched under Blair?;)

But yeah, Reeves talks about 'Secure - o - nomics', without any detail to back it up so we will see.

2029 is the litmus test i agree, and to be fair, anything has to be better than what's come before. It's why the Tory cry of 'Under Labour...' just stop talking please :p
 
Think Starmer must be tempted to have another referendum at some point, going against that would be the upheaval, membership cost and putting public services under even more pressure from the free movement clause.

However, If the average person in the street experiences a negative effect (which they will) they'll be back wanting out; this is different to the 90s and pre eastward expansion 2000s, when EU membership could not be connected to a 'things are getting worse' feeling, it was okay and didn't encroach into British civil life really.
He's not that daft I don't think Mack, though if current trajectory is to be followed you'll probably see a 68:32 in favour of 'remain' accord to polling. One of the terms of rejoining would be the Euro and no one can sell that.....

What he will do is be seen in Brussels more, closer ties with the EU so the UK will be hemmed into the EU on less favourable terms in all likelihood.
 
I don't like to hear of the rats (MPs, advisors) leaving the sinking ship lining their pockets one last time, but if a protection officer or chauffeur overheard something and had a little flutter that wouldn't bother me.
I'm the same to be honest; it's those who are already in power/privileged positions but for others: on ye go ;)
 
If hectoring public schoolboy bullying mode is asking what are YOU (Starmer) going to do rather than just say what the opposition hasn't done (Which works once or twice) and not coming up with your own concrete answers then fucking hell we're really and truly fucked. Starmer got absolutely swamped and folded under key issues and failed to provide an answer.

At least Rishi when pushed said what he was going to do even if what he said was a shit thing. That whole debate's swung me from Labour to Reform honestly. And that's quite painful to say that but at least I know what I'll be voting for and getting.

This young lady knows what you'd be voting for and getting too.



In other Reform news.... I'm not saying everyone who supports Reform is a racist, but if you are a racist, that's certainly the party you'll go to.

 
This young lady knows what you'd be voting for and getting too.



In other Reform news.... I'm not saying everyone who supports Reform is a racist, but if you are a racist, that's certainly the party you'll go to.


They're basically a legitimised BNP or Britain First - surprised they've not rolled out Nick Griffin (i miss his insane Twitter) as their PR guy.

Grim.
 
They're basically a legitimised BNP or Britain First - surprised they've not rolled out Nick Griffin (i miss his insane Twitter) as their PR guy.

Grim.

It's alright, Farage has said they don't represent his views and he's very shocked. The fact that people with those views flock to him like flies on shit is neither here nor there.

Oh yes, and lest we forget that Farage was an actual fascist when he was at school.
 
It's alright, Farage has said they don't represent his views and he's very shocked. The fact that people with those views flock to him like flies on shit is neither here nor there.

Oh yes, and lest we forget that Farage was an actual fascist when he was at school.
Yep, given the awful rhetoric Reform sound (immigration wise), Nigel is shocked :)

But fear not, put a deer stalker hat and England top on and he's a true patriot. Lordy wept.
 
This young lady knows what you'd be voting for and getting too.



In other Reform news.... I'm not saying everyone who supports Reform is a racist, but if you are a racist, that's certainly the party you'll go to.



Why I said it's incredibly painful for me personally to have to do this. They are batshit, they go against a lot of what I believe in but at least as has been pointed out you know what they are.

My fear with Cpt.FlipFlop is that he'll never land on anything or shit will never stick and it'll just be the same shit over and over again. Rather go out with a bang in this country rather than the slow painful death we've all been suffering.
 

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