Geisha Lounge "80% bonus" claim

[Vesuvio]

Here's part of an e-mail Geisha Lounge sent out to players:

---------------
4 DAYS, 4 OFFERS, 80% BONUS

Geisha Lounge Casino invites you to play from Thursday,7th - Monday,10th October 2004 EST, and we will give you a 20% bonus on each day. A total of $800 FREE!!

DAY/DATE BONUS COUPON CODE
Thursday,7th 20% 1ST20%
Friday,8th 20% 2ND20%
Saturday,9th 20% 3RD20%
Sunday,10th 20% 4TH20%
---------------

I'm sure whoever writes this must realise that a 20% bonus on four consecutive days does not add up to 80%! It's still just a 20% bonus on total deposits. This isn't the only e-mail they've sent out making similar claims, so this is just a polite request for them to stop doing it. It's bad enough having to go through all the casino spam as it is without being tricked into reading it

 

[Mugwump]

Wow...

I'm not sure whats funnier (or scarier). The fact that they put out this offer, or the fact that there are undoubtedly people who signed up for it, believing that they're getting 80%.

 

[trick]

Or the fact that the casino hire emplyees that doesn't know how to do simple % calculations.....

 

[Wagerjunction]

Really guys this has long been part of Casino tactics to get noticed and we are hardly the only people that make use of this.We dont make use of scumware and steal from people so i would think that your attentions would need to be directed towards Casinos that do not have the ethics that we have.

The offers are very generous and we have had a lot of people playing,if you dont like this sort of thing then what can i do.I can nopt please all ofthe people all of the time but i certainly will try please my "players " with good offers .

Have any of you ever played at the Casino ??

 

[Vesuvio]

GrandAcesGeisha, do you really represent the casino? You seem to have taken lessons at the Gerald Ratner school of public relations...

Really guys this has long been part of Casino tactics to get noticed and we are hardly the only people that make use of this.We dont make use of scumware and steal from people so i would think that your attentions would need to be directed towards Casinos that do not have the ethics that we have.

Why when you make a valid complaint about a casino which falls somewhere short of outright theft do they so often complain on here that you should be giving someone else a hard time? It's like someone being arrested for drunk driving and asking why the police aren't out catching murderers...

The offers are very generous and we have had a lot of people playing,if you dont like this sort of thing then what can i do.I can nopt please all ofthe people all of the time but i certainly will try please my "players " with good offers .

What can you do? How about not sending out e-mails aimed at tricking your "players"? If you were registered in a normal industry in a normal jurisdiction you'd be fined and forced to change a misleading advertising campaign.

I didn't say your offers weren't generous, just obviously nowhere near as generous you try to make out. I'm genuinely shocked that if you were going to post on here it wasn't an apology & a vow never to send out similar e-mails again!

Have any of you ever played at the Casino ??

Presumably, seeing as I'm on your mailing list - not somewhere I'll be going back to in a hurry.

 

[Wagerjunction]

Vesuvio -i often go around pretending that i work for a Casino because thats just the way i get my kicks.

As i stated i am not able to please everybody and you are obviously one of those that i am never going to please so i wont even try.I am not asking for anyone to be given a hard time im just making a few observations.

Why when you make a valid complaint about a casino which falls somewhere short of outright theft do they so often complain on here that you should be giving someone else a hard time?

This portion above really amused me.Where was the intent to steal from people ?

Ok so we used the subject line to get peoples attention -its hardly world war 3

I have asked my guys not to do this again and really you should approach this with some humor .Although this is gambling i believe that Most people log on to have a good time at the Casino and if they get lucky then so be it.

As for Gerald Ratner and the comparison ,there are some people who know that they have a terrible product like Gerald Ratner and speak out and then there are people who just like complaining as they have nothing else to do.

As for myself i enjoy providing people with good offers and enjoy working in this industry and long will i continue to do so.

 

[Vesuvio]

I have asked my guys not to do this again and really you should approach this with some humor .

Hey, that was all you needed to post (& all you needed to do 'to please me' - see, not so difficult after all ) - the rest of your first post was a good laugh, sense of humour or not!

Ok - shouldn't have included 'outright' in front of theft as that might have implied you were trying to steal. Good luck with your noble mission to provide your players with good offers

 

[Wagerjunction]

LOL -I always appreciate feedback ,its what makes this industry so dynamic
and if i had known that it was so easy to please you so quickly well.

We had a good response to that promotion and i am going to be running it again minus the inappropriate subject line. :notworthy

Have a great time guys ad please if things like this do crop up in the future let me know.I have no issues with bieng called to task ,and i will make changes if necessary.

Regards

 

[jpm]

It is clearly a misleading statement. If this were in a retail establishment, it would be bait & switch. Imagine the sign outside the store:

4 Days - 4 Offers - 80% OFF!!!!

Only when you get inside and up to the cash register with your purchase, you find out its only 20% today, tomorrow, etc. You can't rebuy the same item each day and get another 20% off. You can end up with 4 of the same item at 20% off of each, but this is HARDLY 80% and you well know it.

Stop sending out these b.s. offers and you won't be criticized.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

To be fair at least this RTG does pay it's winners - unlike many of the others.

Yeah they may have exagerated what the promo was - but after one quick read anyone with half a brain could figure out what the truth of the promo was.

I really think time could be better served pointing out the real crooks - rather than picking up on a fair casino's poor marketing tactics that they've said they wont do again.

 

[GrandMaster]

Connectocasino uses the same sort of false arithmetic. Its 6000% promotion actually means 999% bonus on 6 deposits.

 

[jpm]

To be fair at least this RTG does pay it's winners - unlike many of the others.

Yeah they may have exagerated what the promo was - but after one quick read anyone with half a brain could figure out what the truth of the promo was.

I really think time could be better served pointing out the real crooks - rather than picking up on a fair casino's poor marketing tactics that they've said they wont do again.

Fair enough Dirk. I'm just saying that if they want to maintain their apparently good reputation, then don't be playing stupid marketing games like this that are just plain misleading.

 

[Vesuvio]

To be fair to them, they did send out a similar e-mail today, but without the 80% trick, so I think it was worth posting the original complaint (just careful with the spelling of 'received' ) .

Don't really agree with you, Dirk. Yes, we should post about any real crooks we have dealings with, but that doesn't prevent us also posting about dodgy tactics used by casinos that might otherwise be ok. Besides, we need to protect those with less than half a brain

 

[Petunia]

Are we stupid?!

oooh, I am just full of curiosity today!

Are we suggesting that most players are stupid and falling for this trick? Or are they just greedy and would like to push their chances??

or

Are we blaming the casino for using this trick on stupid people? Or are we just saying don't think we are stupid cus we are just pushing our chances

or

Are we saying ... Don't be stupid, just be tricked! It's a dog eat dog world. Some cheat, some fall for it, some take advantage of it... and some just like 'padded adding'.

Is that enough humour for you?

 

[Wagerjunction]

Well what can i say -i have been accused of everything but really how much harm has been caused ,if any at all ?

It states quite clearly in the mailer what the promotion is -Im sure that someone can acknowledge that .

I have also have not conducted a survey on the brain power of my players but i tend to be an optimist and to me well if you can start up a PC and get to my Casino ,well ill give you credit for having at least a full brain.

To compare us to other Casinos is a little bemusing as we dont institute a payment plan ,we dont have issues with playing players and we are definitely not poor ,perhaps our approach needs some refining but then if you never experiment you will never know.

At the end of the day we tried it ,we noted your comments and have taken the feedback seriously enough to make changes.

Can you say that about a lot of other places ?

Have a great day guys.

Regards
Greg

 

[Petunia]

Aaaahw

Greg,

Hey buddy! You sound a bit under the weather. Had a solid beating lately then huh? Look ... I truly think there are two sides to every story (hey, have I said that somewhere before?)

Let's see if we can settle this huh?

I imagine this was a tongue in cheek comment about the 'ad-ability' of the promotion. I imagine, also, that this was taken slightly out of context due to a 'attack-back' approach by the G-man. THEN another, THEN another, THEN another by the rest of us.

In all fairness, it was just a bounus, he IS trying (note I said TRYING) to be available if not fair. SO let's all give EACH OTHER a break here. 20% or 80% .. same bonus, differant sauce. Me thinks me is going to find a lizard lounge with leisure suite larry! (Talking of which.. how is he?!)

 

[Wagerjunction]

Petunia - Im ok ,i rather enjoy this type of stuff(getting beaten ) ,only on the net though ,in real life im a geek with glasses LOL .

In all seriousness i appreciate the feedback and have made the changes ,i cant promise that my marketing lines will improve but i will try

Leisure Suit Larry is no more ,he is now a bit of Geisha and Grand Aces history,i last heard that he was sunning himself on a beach in Clifton enjoying the rewards of his ventures and if i was in his suit well id be doing the same thing instead of enjoying myself everyday in the great city of London.

Now ive got to get some payments out ASAP or im dead meat (my boss will kill me ) so until the next time have a great day guys.

Best Regards
Greg

 

[jpm]

The point is, its false advertising plain and simple. Its NOT the same bonus, different sauce, its NOT about how much harm has been caused if any at all, its about HONESTY. Plain and simple. No matter what kind of math you use, it is never going to add up to an 80% bonus.

If I deposit $400 and get an 80% bonus, I have a total of $720.

If I deposit $100 and get a 20% bonus, I have $120. Do it again 3 more times and I have now deposited $400 and have $480 to play with.

Same deposit, but nowhere NEAR the same bonus. You simply can't justify advertising this as an 80% bonus in any way shape or form because it will never be an 80% bonus. 20% 4 times is not 80% its 20%, and 20% 10000000000000000 times is still 20%.

Now, say this bonus was limited to deposits of $100 or less and you said $80 bonus, which was in the form of 4 - 20% bonuses on $100, THAT would be correct and accurate.

 

[sw2003]

The point is, its false advertising plain and simple. Its NOT the same bonus, different sauce, its NOT about how much harm has been caused if any at all, its about HONESTY. Plain and simple. No matter what kind of math you use, it is never going to add up to an 80% bonus.

If I deposit $400 and get an 80% bonus, I have a total of $720.

If I deposit $100 and get a 20% bonus, I have $120. Do it again 3 more times and I have now deposited $400 and have $480 to play with.

Same deposit, but nowhere NEAR the same bonus. You simply can't justify advertising this as an 80% bonus in any way shape or form because it will never be an 80% bonus. 20% 4 times is not 80% its 20%, and 20% 10000000000000000 times is still 20%.

Now, say this bonus was limited to deposits of $100 or less and you said $80 bonus, which was in the form of 4 - 20% bonuses on $100, THAT would be correct and accurate.

Agree absolutely! Please don't use this kind of underhanded advertizing tactics anymore!

 

[m249a]

Yeah, and don't use it KNOWINGLY, and then try to belittle it by saying don't bother us about a slight of hand ad, when there are others openly ripping people off. It is this kind of meantality that spawns contempt for players and creates an environment that it is ok to do anything for a buck.

 

[snuf419]

their bonus is the WORST in the market....
20% with a 30x (D+B) playthrough on BJ

that's why GL/GA choose to use this 80% gimmick as players who opt for this bonus are not that smart with math to begin with

 

[Wagerjunction]

I hear all of you in regards to the subject line of the mailer and that has been changed and will never happen again.

snuf419 to say that is the worst in the market ,well i have a lot of players playing and making money off it ,so i guess its down to choosing your own game to play.

In fact if you can backup your statement it would be even better ,show me a place that offers a regular Blackjack promotion to all of its players I.E. not excluding certain countries i would then be more than willing to take another look at my current promotion.

Yeah, and don't use it KNOWINGLY, and then try to belittle it by saying don't bother us about a slight of hand ad

Dont really know where you get this from but take a look at this :

To be fair to them, they did send out a similar e-mail today, but without the 80% trick, so I think it was worth posting the original complaint

I can assure you that i hear you re the Subject Line of the Mailer and that will not happen again.



Best Regards
Greg

 

[Sorcerak]

Regular blackjack promotions with reasonable w/r?

All these groups send me tons of matchups with no more than 10x 80%+ d/b or 25x bonus: Casino On Net, Lasseters, Cryptologic Casinos, Net Entertainment Casinos, Fortune Lounge, Palace Group, Belle Rock Gaming.

I only get horrible reload offers from Real Time Gaming casinos unless they have bad reputation (which I'd not touch with a 20' pole).

 

[snuf419]

GL
You are not excluding certain countries because you are already giving everybody the 'royal Danish treatment'.

Yeah, you have many players making money off this tiny bonus...sure but I think there are waaaaaaaay more who lost their pants trying to fulfill the 30x WR.

 

[Sorcerak]

It's not 30x WR, it's 180x playthrough on the bonus itself which is a laugh.

Ie: I deposit 5$, I get 1$ bonus and I must play 180$ to withdraw! I trust my chances.. oh yes I do..

Make it 30x or 40x WR on bonus itself and I'd trust my chances of being able to survive the playthrough. Otherwise I prefer to play without bonus and I do it at places that comp me with great offers beforehand and don't take me for an idiot.

 

[Wagerjunction]

the Royal Danish ,LOL that was pretty good -

sorcerak dont talk about these offers show me one,show me a FL promotion where they allow you to purchase up to $1k and claim a 20% bonus ,sure they will do you a 30% on $100 once over the weekend ,but im offering it every day for 4 days .

As for taking you for an Idiot well ,i havent seen a thing about idiots here

Nobody really has a chance when they play with $5 but the chances when playing with $600 or $1200 are a whole lot better stands to reason does it not .The more you play the more likelehood of you winning .I guess it just depends on your skill levels and your outlook in life


By all means Sorcerak ,if you dont want to play and dont like my promotions dont take em up -That way you dont get the Royal Danish treatment.Stay at the places that comp you before you purchase ,i unfortunately do things te other way around in most cases but i guess thats just because we are a RTG Casino .That subject is also truly becoming so passe now ,i can tell you a few stories about Casinos and their methods.

My Casinos have a loyal player base and there is very good reason for that ,they play ,they get looked after and they get their winnings ,

If you dont like my promotions ,what can i do ,a lot of people currently do so i will continue to offer this to them.

 

[Sorcerak]

show me a FL promotion where they allow you to purchase up to $1k and claim a 20% bonus

I will reply in pm as I don't want to bash a casino that at least takes the time to answers to players publicly.

 

[dominique]

I will reply in pm as I don't want to bash a casino that at least takes the time to answers to players publicly.

I agree Sorcerak. It is good to see casinos responding here. It makes it easier to sort things out, and I am glad things are civil enough here to allow that.

Good message board! :notworthy

 

[Wagerjunction]

Final Response on this Topic

I will reply in pm as I don't want to bash a casino that at least takes the time to answers to players publicly.

I have spoken to Sorcerak about this and i thought i would make my final post re this particular subject that has curiously moved from the Subject Line of my mailers to my promotions.

I am not afraid of bieng bashed ,if there is a reason to bash me then go ahead and bash ,what i am doing is trying to create a good gaming environment for my players and that is what i will do.

Sorcerak told me that he got fantastic offers from the FL group as do i ,i wish to point out that i make fantastic offers to my players as well depending on what level they are at just as at any other Casino .

My point in this whole essay is that i offer a 20% bonus to players on BJ on a purchase up to $500 or $1k (As i have in the past) to all players not just a selected bunch of players.I have asked numerous colleagues in the industry as to wether they think this is unfair and none of them think so.

To find out what the selected bunch of players recieve ,well i guess you know what to do.

Have a great week guys ,best of luck on the tables and thius is my final post on this.

Best Regards
Greg Gomes

 

[sw2003]

The more you play the more likelehood of you winning .I guess it just depends on your skill levels and your outlook in life.

Surely you mean the more we play, the better likelihood of the casino winning!