Fighting H.R. 4777, the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act

[Pirateofc21]

Some sense

Finally some comments from someone who has done some research (Bobby Scott, Shelley Berkley). Wow online shopping abuse, where do we stop? I don't know about others but I haven't been able to use a credit card in quite some time. If you want to protect my family provide my family and children the regulation of the industry that would do that. My older girl loves horses and is quite capable of betting, should she want to, on Horse racing without a credit card, bank account or computer.

Thank you Ms. Berkley

 

[Simmo!]

Thank you Ms. Berkley

She's good

Hey the "Gentleman from Virginia" is a Mr Wolf (if I heard that right). Who's gonna be afraid of him? LOL

 

[thagame24]

This bill is already in trouble......I highly doubt it gets through the Senate even if it gets through the house

 

[lots0]

Postponed.... till????

 

[Westland Bowl]

She's good

Hey the "Gentleman from Virginia" is a Mr Wolf (if I heard that right). Who's gonna be afraid of him? LOL

That is Rep. Frank Wolf. He was one of Pat Robertson's and Christian Coalition's (sp?) preferred candidates. Turned out true to his name.

 

[Simmo!]

Postponed 'til tomorrow I think - after all that Is that good or bad?!?!

 

[lots0]

I think its good for us.

Many thanks to the Gentle Woman from Nevada....

 

[Simmo!]

I think its good for us.

Yay! Come on Americans - you have another whole day of legal gambling

Seriously i like the way your House of Representatives works with this time allotment system. Our "mob" could learn from that rather than live in a Chicken house for 8+ hours a day!

 

[sdaddy]

If something's postponed, then that means the majority has to go take more time to twist some arms or perhaps make some last-minute changes to the bill. Not often will a bill be brought up for final vote in the House, if there's not a likelihood it will pass.

By the way, once I switched to Real Player from WMP I was able to get C-SPAN's web broadcast to work.

 

[lots0]

Postponed till later today...

 

[Pirateofc21]

Berkley Amendment

with about 10 minutes left they are currently taking a vote on the amendment which would include all forms of internet gambling including Horse racing.

 

[lots0]

Yup, I can see the vote.

Looks like we are losing... as expected.

This vote is only for the Amendment to the Bill, not for the Bill.

 

[lots0]

The Amendment did not pass...

Its now almost a sure bet the Bill will pass.

 

[lots0]

The Bill is being read again.

They are going to vote soon, if no one can delay it.

 

[dabruin2]

Goodlatte's citings of teenagers that overcharge their credit cards, rob banks. or commit suicide due to internet gambling isn't representative of the whole. When are they going to treat adults like adults? When will they realize that there's such a thing as bell curves? Why must the excessive, abusive behaviors of the few punish everyone else?

 

[lots0]

Goodlatte's pockets are filled with native Casino Money. He has a lot of room to talk about gambling ruining lives... Hypocrite that's what he is.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Punish or Protect

Goodlatte's citings of teenagers that overcharge their credit cards, rob banks. or commit suicide due to internet gambling isn't representative of the whole. When are they going to treat adults like adults? When will they realize that there's such a thing as bell curves? Why must the excessive, abusive behaviors of the few punish everyone else?

Because this is more about punishment then protecting. The scary thing is these are adults debating this. I think there is to be another/final vote to come very soon.

 

[lots0]

The final vote will be in a few minutes.

All the delaying tactics have failed...

I am so damn sick and tired of these assholes trying to protect me.

 

[belgamo]

Ids this the actual vote right now? Do we want the nay's? Just got home.

 

[dabruin2]

Looks like it'll pass.

 

[lots0]

Yup final vote for the House.

We want a the Nays to win...

>>>Looks like it will pass
I don't think there was any doubt of that. Too much Native Casino and State Lottery money on the line.

 

[dabruin2]

How long do you think this will take to take into effect? 6 months? 1 year? When do you think we'll pretty much have to cease online gambling in the states?

 

[Macgyver]

Still has to be approved by the Senate and the President.

 

[lots0]

It passed.

315 to 93 Final Vote



I am going to punch the next person I hear say "its a "Free" Country".

 

[thagame24]

dabruin2: it's still a ways from becoming law.....now that it's passed the house it moves on to the senate where the process repeats itself....if it passes the senate the President must sign it into law or veto the bill.

 

[dabruin2]

yes...but again...what do you think the timeline is to make this into law?

 

[lots0]

what do you think the timeline is to make this into law?

Very hard to tell.

It may not even get to a vote in the Senate.

 

[thagame24]

is it just me or is this bill very weak anyway?? The main objective of this bill is to prevent EFT and credit card transfers directly to online casinos. But really, how many of us use those?? This bill would do absolutely nothing to stop neteller and firepay transactions, which account for 95% of gambling funding. Basically, this bill leaves the onus to the online casinos on whether or not to enforce it. Since they really don't have much reason to, I see them interpreting it without much loss to us. For example, we may lose the IGMPay options from party and empire. Some sites may stop new signups of US Citizens but most will not close previous accounts, which is exactly what the ongame poker network has done with accounts from people located in France (which recently passed some anti-gambling legislation). Even if this bill passes, I really don't see it stopping me much, unless I'm really misanalyzing this situation.

 

[lots0]

Credit card transfers to online Casinos are almost non-existent today (and have been for quite some time) so that part of the bill is just the elected boneheads in Washington showing their ignorance... again.

This Bill is not about outlawing online gambling, it is all about protecting, Native Casinos, State Lotteries, State run Horse Racing and trying to make some of the Repubs look like real nice people and not the low moral scumbags they truly are.

 

[Pirateofc21]

EFT's

is it just me or is this bill very weak anyway?? The main objective of this bill is to prevent EFT and credit card transfers directly to online casinos. But really, how many of us use those?? This bill would do absolutely nothing to stop neteller and firepay transactions, which account for 95% of gambling funding.

Well, in my case EFT is the methood I use for my Neteller account and would be if I had a Firepay account. None of the cards I currently use are accepted anywhere. Yes there are other methods for funding and withdrawing but none as simple and fast as the EFT if you can't use a card. I also heard a reference to the E-Cash system which in my opinion is attached the some of the best casino's (Intercasino, VIP etc). So disrupting that system would be an inconvenience to say the least.

 

[Westland Bowl]

It may not even get to a vote in the Senate.

I certainly hope it doesn't get to the Senate BUT surprises happen. Just a couple of weeks ago it seemed that the House bill wasn't even going to be heard but....ta da!.... here it is/was. I'm leery of such reports about "the Senate doesn't consider this top priority" because it could be a deception to catch gambling supporters off guard. That the House debated and voted on it came quite fast!

 

[lots0]

Neteller is not an online Casino, so transfer funds to your hearts content.

I am hoping that the rift between the House and the Senate will play on this Bill like it has on
several others this last session. But as you say, you never know.

Their is also the free trade factor and complaints by the WTO, that the House did not even consider and the Senate will.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Whew!

Neteller is not an online Casino, so transfer funds to your hearts content.

.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought they meant indirectly to Web Wallets that service the Casino's

 

[doober]

House Passes Online Gambling Bill

FYI - The House just passed an online gambling bill banning all online gambling except for horse racing and lottery. They even go so far as mentioning that they may start to work with ISPs to ban known gambling IP Addresses.

Not sure why they wouldn't just want to regulate the industry, but nonetheless it is the news. Do you think this will make it all the way through the system, or do you think it will get stomped out somewhere down the road. Personally I doubt a serious ban would ever be put in place, but who knows.

 

[pacers31]

What I don't understand is why the Harrahs, MGMs,etc of the land based casino empires aren't aggressively pushing for regulation so that they can get in on the money trough here in america. I realize they want people to come to Vegas and all, but why not pick up some of these billions of online dollars as well?? This whole push is a B.S. move to appeal to the right wing morality police before the election in Nov. Horse racing and lotteries are o.k. to "click the mouse and lose the house", but not poker, slots, etc. And the US wonders why the rest of the world thinks we are dillusional morons. Stunts like this only prove them right! Happy Birthday America! Apparently wisdom does not necessarily come with age!

 

[NoMouthToScream]

What makes it worse is, the freaking media already making it sound like this bill has already passed. Even if casinos can work pass this bill, your average joe will not play these casinos, thinking it's illegal. One of many things, the media like to make truth, even if it's not even close.

 

[Simmo!]

What I don't understand is why the Harrahs, MGMs,etc of the land based casino empires aren't aggressively pushing for regulation so that they can get in on the money trough here in america. I realize they want people to come to Vegas and all, but why not pick up some of these billions of online dollars as well??

The State of Nevada was well represented by the Gentle Lady who was very vocal in her opposition of the bill. She spoke very well actually.

 

[The Dude]

Personally, I don't think it will be approved in the Senate. Once one looks hard at the bill, or does any serious research on problem gambling, underage gambling, etc., one will see that the bill doesn't make sense.

But you never know. There are a lot of hypocritical Bible thumpers in the Senate as well.

One thing that these politicians don't fathom is that when there is a will, there is a way. This industry thrives off of invention and creativity and this will come into play if there is any serious threat to ban online gaming. And that's the main issue here - how will the US be successful in banning online gaming?

 

[pacers31]

Yeah, I saw that Simmo. Unfortunately she was fighting against a very strong current of government nannyism. Used to be the republicans who derided the dems for trying to make peoples personal decisions for them. oh how the times have changed!

 

[just play]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought they meant indirectly to Web Wallets that service the Casino's

I thought they were trying to make online gambling illegal...meaning blocking the sites from your computer? So it doesn't really matter if you use neteller does it?

Confused

 

[just play]

This is what I read.........


"Gamblers who prefer their laptops to blackjack tables won't like what Congress is doing. On Tuesday, the House plans to vote on a bill that would ban credit cards for paying online bets and could padlock gambling Web sites.

The legislation would clarify existing law to spell out that it is illegal to gamble online.

To enforce that ban, the bill would prohibit credit cards and other payment forms, such as electronic transfers, from being used to settle online wagers. It also would give law enforcement officials the authority to work with Internet providers to block access to gambling Web sites."



BLOCK ACCESS TO GAMBLING WEB SITES.....it's not just a matter of credit cards is it?


Still Confused?

 

[jetset]

Forcing ISPs to block online gambling is indeed one of the handy little abuses of freedom that these politicians are considering, although they have kept it fairly low profile so far, preferring to ladle on the view that the industry presents a threat to US citizens in terms of morality, money laundering, organised crime, terrorism, underage and addictive gambling and any other heinous activities on which they have yet to produce any evidence at all.

They are probably wise to soft-peddle on the ISP stuff - interfering with the Internet is dynamite as we have seen when the subject has been discussed on the message boards before. It sure wouldn't make 4411's future progress in the Senate any easier, allied to the carve-outs hypocrisy.

 

[The Dude]

Forcing ISPs to block online gambling is indeed one of the handy little abuses of freedom that these politicians are considering, although they have kept it fairly low profile so far...

The thing that these Bible thumpers haven't fathomed yet is the determination of the online casino industry and the lengths they will go to outmanuever any ISP blocking - or whatever the feds are trying to throw at them.

This industry is too far cemented in; for the past 8-10 years they have relied on the US gambler. Too much money is at stake, and I highly doubt that xyz casino will turn its back on the American market while its competitor whodatcasino.com finds a loophole and successfully begins to take on US customers. I believe it'll be business as usual for the casinos. They may need to hire on some hackers to handle maneuvering around any ISP blocks, but that's just another business expense. Just like the Paypal optout: a major hiccup, but another door opened.

ISP blocking was one of the topics brought up at CAC Amsterdam and it's pretty clear that many affiliates are savvy enough to out think this sort of thing or they know someone that will. Again, too many people depend on this as their livelihood and will go to extremes to protect it.

On the hand, this will open the market to all sorts of unsavory behaviours. Think of all the US players denied their winnings because they are playing "illegally". Will upstanding casinos become criminalized with accepting US players? Probably all of the publicly traded casinos will have to dump the US market and push more heavily on Asia (we've seen this in the works already). Then it will be a shark feast on the helpless US player. Every clip shot joint in Central America will be jumping in glee since the heavy competition will be out of the way.

Just like the attempt to ban handguns in the US - if you ban guns, only crooks will have them. This move by the self appointed moral police is childlike in its simplicity. For them it's a too-easy answer for a very complex issue. I have faith that the US Senate has more sense and is willing to look at evidence that this bill is motivated by self-interest and is just a fantasy that won't work.

 

[dominique]

I don't think it will pass the senate either.

We've been here twice before.

Politicians have made their statement to appease the moral majority crowd, and now they can proceed with business as usual without seriously pissing off millions of american citizens who think poker is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Keep in mind

This is what I read.........


"Gamblers who prefer their laptops to blackjack tables won't like what Congress is doing. On Tuesday, the House plans to vote on a bill that would ban credit cards for paying online bets and could padlock gambling Web sites.

The legislation would clarify existing law to spell out that it is illegal to gamble online.

To enforce that ban, the bill would prohibit credit cards and other payment forms, such as electronic transfers, from being used to settle online wagers. It also would give law enforcement officials the authority to work with Internet providers to block access to gambling Web sites."



BLOCK ACCESS TO GAMBLING WEB SITES.....it's not just a matter of credit cards is it?


Still Confused?

Keep in mind that there are really 2 bills that have been combined at the last minute. One being 4411 and the other being 4777. In general one seeks to update the Wire Act of the 60's and the other deals with the electronic payments issue. The "Berkley Amendment", (the Good Lady from Nevada) as it was called, was an attempt to include Horse racing and other forms of I.G. in the ban. It was of course defeated. Can you say hypocrite?
.

 

[Simmo!]

The "Berkley Amendment", (the Good Lady from Nevada) as it was called, was an attempt to include Horse racing and other forms of I.G. in the ban. It was of course defeated. Can you say hypocrite?
.

I think this amendment was designed to derail the 4411 issue and to highlight the hipocrasy within the two bills which basically try to say its not okay to gamble online, but it is okay to gamble online as long as it benefits the state coffers! It's just highlighting the fact that it's entirely a money issue dressed up in morals to make it look like they have American's best interests at heart.

The simple fact is, they cannot regulate, or aren't prepared to regulate, online gambling, when the money is leaving the country. It's a typically blinkered approach where the USA as a whole would be better off embracing, regulating, legislating and deriving revenue for online gambling by promoting moderation, like the UK and other countries.

 

[soflat]

So do you guys think reputable casinos like 32red and Intercasino would still accept US players if it were a felony for us to play online?

 

[Darem1]

What a sham! Big brother government at it's worst!

I am sick about this. Win or lose, it is MY decision to play or not. They are taking away my freedom and I don't like it one bit. But if it does become illegal, I won't play anymore.

 

[lots0]

So far today I have been inundated by requests for information about how/if/why online gambling has been outlawed.

Just for those of you that don’t follow things very close.... Online Gambling is NOT illegal.

All that has happened is that a Bill has passed the House of fools and moved up the ladder to the next level.

As has been pointed out in this thread, the wonderful American news media has distorted the facts (as usual) and is acting like online gambling has already been made illegal, misleading people.

I am thinking about starting a campaign to let people know that online gambling in the US is not yet illegal, and if people want to continue to be able to spend their money the way they choose, they had better contact their State Senators and let them know how they feel about being treated like little children that have to be told by the nice big brother Government how to spend their hard earned money...

If any webmasters want to join in please do so, there is power in numbers.

It might also be in the best interests of the casinos and poker rooms to educate their patrons about this as well.

 

[dominique]

So do you guys think reputable casinos like 32red and Intercasino would still accept US players if it were a felony for us to play online?

This will likely depend on their location.

Probably Casinos located in Britain will not, but most others will.