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Fighting H.R. 4777, the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act

According to today's Las Vegas Review-Journal, it is anticipated that these bills will be merged and brought to the House floor by the first or second week of June. Yet Frank Fahrenkopf of the AGA still thinks there may not be enough time in this legislative session to pass them.

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What it boils down to, and will always boil down too, IS MONEY.
If the politicians can't get their greedy little fingers into everyone's pocket books, then they'll find a way to stop it and make it illegal.
PERIOD.
Money...The ROOT OF ALL EVIL.
 
paul02085 said:
If not enough time, what would happen then?
Then the newly-elected Congress would have to start the legislative process all over again from the beginning. This would be a huge setback for the proponents of this bill. Added to that, there's a strong possibility that the House will change to Democrat control next year.
 
not sure if this is a good or a bad thing, but we have received word that Congress will be extending their "in session"/legislative working days, probably all the way up until Christmas (normally recess for the year in October)... but, I too, still do not think there will be enough time for these bills to pass this year, even with the extension of legislative days. With the biggest issue now being the Immigration reform, and the worry of some (about 33) Congressmen on the status of their jobs on the line (this has already been stated in media so I feel safe in saying this ;) ), I think there is still too much to be done (in the process) for these bills to pass.
 
More reasons for a "drawn out" debate...

More reason to believe (at least have good hope) these bills will not pass in time:

Checking out the recently submitted report from the House Committee on the Judiciary for H.R.4411, there is a section "Dissenting Views" submitted by Rep. Ron Paul of Texas:

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Although his argument is highly speculative (IMO), and I disagree with some of the undertones of his proposed "scenarios" of what could happen if H.R.4411 would pass, Rep. Paul is avidly against this bill and encourages his colleagues to not support it. Known for his libertarian standpoints, his bottom line, as Rep. Paul states, is:
"In conclusion, H.R. 4411 violates the constitutional limits on federal power."


The Introduction of H.R. 5474

H.R. 5474 - To create a commission to study the proper response of the United States to the growth of Internet gambling. (Introduced in House) (link: Outdated URL (Invalid) )

Mentioned in Casinomeister's news section, H.R. 5474 is the newly proposed bill which would develop an Internet Study Commission to thoroughly examine all issues involved in the controversy of online gambling.

*The key here - it is an 18-month study


My personal opinion:
(Let's hope that this bill will be considered and move along in the process, IMO this is the best hope that we have in AT LEAST delaying the prohibition of Internet gambling. More importantly, a detailed report from such a commission could provide FACT, whether positive or negative. This would be presented to the opponents of Internet gambling, who may be basing their opposition on speculation or generalization.)

Also, this is an election year (for State Representatives and Senators).

One of the reasons we (GPO) will be inundated with volumes of work, (not only all of the issues at hand), but members of Congress are not being shy about voicing their views to show that they are being active, thus trying to gain/maintain support.
 
Westland Bowl said:
The introduction of HR5474 notwithstanding (see Cythnia777's post above), the HR4777 picked up another sponsor yesterday from Arizona bringing the total co-sponsors to 145. Tom Delay is still listed among the co-sponsors.
Well, Tom DeLay officially left the House last week, so there's now one less co-sponsor.

And it appears now that H.R. 4777's progress is behind schedule because House leaders had previously stated their intention to bring it to a floor vote within the first two weeks of June.
 
Unfortunately, individual states can still impose gambling laws within their individual statutes when it comes to gambling. Just like it Maryland, where slot machines themselves are illegal yet Maryland is home to horse racing tracks such as Pimlico and Laurel. And, of course, the State lottery. I agree that (IMO) such matters can reflect a certain type of hypocrisy, and the "slots war" is ongoing in MD, and probably other states as well, where time and time again some lawmakers have tried to obtain legislation that supports slots, but constantly opposed by others. Especially when it comes to simply writing articles about online gaming (in the state of WA), even if the writer quotes that online gaming is illegal in certain jurisdictions, this seems, to me, quite ludicrous to be charged with any type of criminal activity.
 
Damian Dunlap posted this at the Online Players Union:

"House To Vote On Anti-Gaming Bill In July
The anti-gambling bill sponsored by Bob Goodlatte, which seeks to update the Wire Act, will be voted on sometime in July 2006. HR 4777 is among the list of Bills that will be debated on in the House."
 
Westland Bowl said:
Damian Dunlap posted this at the Online Players Union:

"House To Vote On Anti-Gaming Bill In July
The anti-gambling bill sponsored by Bob Goodlatte, which seeks to update the Wire Act, will be voted on sometime in July 2006. HR 4777 is among the list of Bills that will be debated on in the House."
I don't see any source for that report over at his site. Maybe Cynthia can weigh in on this?
 
ONLINE GAMBLING BAN INCLUDED IN "AMERICAN VALUES AGENDA'

Goodlatte and Leach Bills may be combined and have been passed to the House for debate next month


Further details are now available on the surprise news that the Goodlatte and Leach Bills seeking to hamstring online gambling in the USA have been forwarded on for debate on the floor of the House of Representatives - effectively another step forward for this legislation.

Dennis Hastert, Republican Speaker of the House of Representatives, published the list of measures this week. "The American Values Agenda will defend Americas founding principles. Through this agenda, we will work to protect the faith of our people, the sanctity of life and freedoms outlined by our founding fathers," he said.

The two Bills have been included in the 'American Values Agenda being proposed by the majority Republicans in the House of Representatives. The party hopes it will energise conservative activists and voters ahead of the mid-term elections in November.

A Republican spokesperson has revealed that "it is likely" that a combined Goodlatte/Leach bill could be among the first of the bills to go before the full house, possibly in July.

Rep. Jim Leach, whose proposed bill HR 4411 seeks to add credit cards etc. to the list of illegal online gaming payment methods, is reported to be seeking to combine his proposal with that of Rep. Bob Goodlatte to avoid either Bill fouling the progress of the other. Unofficial reports suggest that a deal could be worked out in the near future with Goodlatte, whose bill HR 4777 seeks to modernise the Wire Act.
 
Thanks for the update, jetset. Not what I wanted to hear though. I was hoping these bills had quietly drifted into obscurity.

As Cynthia noted earlier, however, time is running short in this session of Congress to get something through. Sometimes bills are brought to a floor vote, especially in an election year, just to make a political statement, knowing that there is little chance that they will eventually become law. I hope that's what's going on here.


"The American Values Agenda will defend Americas founding principles. Through this agenda, we will work to protect the faith of our people, the sanctity of life and freedoms outlined by our founding fathers," he said.
That some nice spin in that press release by Hastert. How is this bill protecting my freedoms? It's doing exactly the opposite.
 
You have the 'FREEDOM' to do what your told...

Thats one of the few freedoms not currently under attack.

That some nice spin in that press release by Hastert.
Too bad so many sheeple will believe him.
 
what are the odds?

what are the odds for this legislation to pass this year?

can someone also esplain in short what are the steps still needed to make it into a law, and how slow they usually go? and why it get stucked?

thanks.
 
What are the odds... Who knows, it’s a coin toss as far as I can see.

Watching US politics is like watching a red ant hill after something has disturbed it... They are all just running around and around and around...

If time and the leadership permits, the full Bill will be debated on the floor of the House, at the end of the debate they will decide weather or not to have a vote, the vote will decide if the Bill will progress to the next level, the Senate..

In the Senate the whole process starts all over again, the Bill is sent to a committee and the committee will decide if the Bill will get debated on the floor of the Senate . Then if the Committee allows a full floor debate the and Senate approves the Bill it will be forwarded on to the President and he will decide if he wants to sign the Bill into law or not.

I am making this all very simple. I did not even try to list all the steps that still have to be gone thru, there are many and at each and every step the Bill can be killed or left to collect dust on some shelf somewhere forever with out ever becoming a law.

The Republicans have a lot of problems right now getting any laws passed and they are the ones that really want this Bill passed.

The Republicans want to show the American people that they are the party that is fighting to keep us FREE by taking away the ability of grown adults to do something they want too (Freedom?)... Does anyone else see the stupidity in that or is it just me?

It all boils down to... the Republicans think they can score election points with their religious base of sheeple by forcing everyone in America to follow their religious beliefs.
 
The "American Values Agenda"? Does anyone fall for that?

Surely you promote good values, but you don't force them on people, else you may just aswell admit you're a communist. You get the feeling some people are just blinded to the alternatives sometimes eh :rolleyes:

Anyway, the Bible Belt vote is obviously an important one.
 
Good Site Simmo.


I do find it very interesting that Ever since they (online casinos) first appeared, members of Congress have been actively trying to pass legislation that would ban online gambling.

Why would these boneheads start trying to ban online gambling before there was ANY information at all about the impact of online gambling? I mean it was a totally new thing, never seen before, for all these boneheads knew online gambling was going to be a boon to the US that would bail the government out of its National Debt or fund Schools and Hospitals...

Banning something before you even know what it is or what its impact is going to be is not very smart and screams out that there are hidden motives for trying to ban online casinos.
 
sdaddy said:
I don't see any source for that report over at his site. Maybe Cynthia can weigh in on this?


Unfortunately, sdaddy.. it appears to be on the agenda:

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However, this is simply an announcement for proposing amendments to this bill, which, IMO, could (and usually does) drag the process out even further...at least insofar as having the bill passed THIS year

P.S. (sorry I haven't been on here for awhile...missed u guys!)
 
House seen debating gambling bill NEXT WEEK

I posted the following as a separate thread also......
--------------------------------------

Damian Dunlap posted this at Online Players Union...
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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The full U.S. House of Representatives is expected to debate next week legislation that would attempt to ban Internet gambling, a $12 billion-a-year industry that gets half its revenue from American gamblers, two Republican lawmakers said on Thursday.

The legislation to be debated blends two versions of bills that have been offered by Rep. Bob Goodlatte (news, bio, voting record) of Virginia and Rep. Jim Leach (news, bio, voting record) of Iowa, the two said in a statement.
Leach's bill has been approved by both the House Financial Services Committee and the House Judiciary Committee. It has broad support among conservative and religious activist groups, who want to keep gambling out of easy reach of minors.

The anti-gambling bill is expected to be debated by the full House as early as Wednesday, a legislative aide said.

However, it remains unclear whether the Senate will pass similar legislation as Congress scrambles to finish its work before the November general elections. Arizona Republican Sen. Jon Kyl (news, bio, voting record) has introduced a bill similar to Leach's House bill but it has languished in the Senate.

Investors in some British-based gaming companies such as Party Gaming Plc and 888 Holdings have closely monitored U.S. legislation.

Although the U.S. Justice Department says a 1961 law that forbids interstate telephone betting also applies to the Internet, the House lawmakers say their legislation would clarify that point for prosecutors. It would also prohibit gambling businesses from settling Internet wagers with credit cards, checks or fund transfers.

"Gambling on the Internet has become an extremely lucrative business," Goodlatte said. "These offshore, fly-by-night Internet gambling operators are unlicensed, untaxed and unregulated and are sucking billions of dollars out of the United States."

An estimated 2,300 gambling sites now exist on the Internet, the lawmakers said.
 
H.R. 4777 to be debated Tuesday this week!

I just learned that tomorrow is the day for debate of H.R. 4777 on the House floor. I saw the announcement on C-SPAN, the public affairs channel that covers the U.S. House of Representatives.

Legislative business is scheduled to begin at 10 a.m. EST. You can watch streaming broadcasts of House proceedings over the web through this link:

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sdaddy said:
I just learned that tomorrow is the day for debate of H.R. 4777 on the House floor.
They're also voting on HR4411 tomorrow. This is how one of the politicans summed up internet gambling:

"Just click the mouse and lose your house."
I mean, seriously. Come on.

I have an idea! Let's move the politicians from Washington D.C. to Washington state, where they can live happily ever after in an anti-internet-gambling heaven. They can continue to take their frequent and lengthy vacations in Hawaii, the other anti-gambling paradise. Just leave the other damned 48 states alone.
 
The online gambling element in this "American Values Agenda" that has pushed the Goodlatte and Leach merged Bills forward so quickly is getting more mainstream coverage internationally than all the other stuff (like flagburning) on that agenda.

My fave quote on this topic at the moment comes from a Sacremento lawyer, who said:

"Here's the country that has Las Vegas, Atlantic City, riverboats up to Iowa and Indian gambling under every tree. Not to mention state lotteries. Now you're going to turn around and say Internet casinos are undermining the moral tone of the United States? It's just plain silly."

And he didn't even mention the horse racing exceptions!!!!
 
I am sure it has been mentioned before, but it can always use some reinforcement. The goverment can ban whatever it wants, but it does not have the logistics to enforce the ban. Alcohol was banned, people still drank. Drugs are illegal, people still do drugs. All this does is take a form of entertainment and reduce it to the level of child porn. Hey, maybe for giggles they will set up sting operations? 'Casino America! 1000 percent sign up bonus, no WR!' Sign up, get pinched by the feds, get to be on the local news!

Are we really to assume that they are going to set up a room with 100,000 puters and 100,000 workers who will do nothing but watch internet activity and see which pages we are going to? Maybe snoop every puter in the US or make it a requirement that we allow them to spy? How would they do this? What US citizen would let them?

It's all smoke, 'saving our citizens from themselves'. Apparently, with the nuclear threat from North Korea, the nuclear threat from Iran, an army stretched woefully thin, a deficit of biblical proportions, etc..., they are merely trying to show that they can at least get SOMETHING done.

But, when it passes, and don't kid yourselves, it is going to pass...think of the new markets which will open up in encryption? Do we need it for credit card transactions? Hell no, we need it for AOL!

I love public forums, I can babble all I want!

What is going to happen when the legislation passes but they realize that they cannot enforce it? They will hand it out to the states and tell THEM to enforce it. New borders will be set and not by state boundries. You can visit the West Coast Net, which has active monitors to ensure you are not looking at tobacco ads, or booze, or porn, or gambling. Can pop onto the Network of Southern States where you can certainly look at anything you want, and gamble till you spew, but it costs 14 cents a minute and you need to send in a blood sample. You can always use the New England/Colony networks, but all you get there are religious ads and a CNN reporter telling you how good life is while he is surrounded by the National Guard.

It is a grim picture, but all this freedom of the internet stuff must stop! How are we supposed to control our population if they are not watching 187 channels of subsidized Three's Company?

Overall, I wouldn't worry too much about it. When the secret service starts kicking in your door due to your betting habits, I would maybe be a tad more concerned. We all know that the legislation is merely about the tax money they are losing and not about protecting anyone. But, the ramifications should be fun to watch. If you want to shut down gambling, try starting with State Lotteries. Shut down Vegas. Make it a blanket ban on all forms of gambling. You cannot call one safe while calling another immoral. This is not Cock Fighting!
 
This should be interesting. There will be an amendment offered by Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, to remove the bill's carve out exceptions. This should put the bill's proponents in the uncomfotable position of defending the hypocracy of the overall legislation.
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Amendment #3:
Eliminates the exceptions to the bills general prohibition against online gambling, thereby establishing a complete ban on all internet gambling-related activities.
 
FYI, the merged Goodlatte/Leech bill being voted on today is called H.R. 4411, the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006.

Unfortunately, for those outside the U.S., the C-SPAN web broadcast does not seem to be working. Work on the bill started about 45 minutes ago, and a final vote is expected in about 3 hrs.
 
Interesting developments, with Wexler joining Conyers (Wexler was earlier trying to get jai alai and dog racing exempted and failed) in seeking a ban on everything , which would really put the cat among the pigeons.

Also submitting an amendment is Rep Tom Davis (VA) who wants to get the banking institutions to stop processing transactions relating to "computer-assisted remote hunting." WTF is that all about????

I think if this Bill gets through today it is likely to have a seriously tough ride in the Senate.
 
Hmmmm - it seems they're only allowing an hour for debate as at 12h14 local time - that's not much for such a far-reaching piece of legislation. Perhaps a deliberate ploy to push it through at any cost?
 
Dealers

Simmo! said:
God it's disturbing how the objectors dress this up to skate over the surface. Gambling is now like taking Cocaine according to this "young lady" that's speaking now. :rolleyes:
If that is true does that make the software provider a cocaine dealer?
 
Pirateofc21 said:
If that is true does that make the software provider a cocaine dealer?

:lolup: "Crack"ing :D


EDIT: Question: Does 4411, when it says "Electronic Fund Transfers" also mean e-wallets are prohibited? Cos they aren't just restricted to gambling transactions.

EDIT EDIT: Forget it - the current speaker just answered that :)
 
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