Dear Microgaming

[thebigs]

Part 4 and final part lol

Decided to play only 3 slots.The Finer Reels,IR and JP.

had over 200 spins on each and had 1 free spin on TFROL which paid a pathetic 2.30 euro.
Best win from my remaining balance was 7.50 on IM.

Basically all a big Joke but my own fault for keeping playing the same slots.
Hope if anyone else is playing them has better joy.

 

[Jono777]

I worry about myself sometimes

Often wonder how these things pop into my head, hopefully a few other will appreciate too!

The Cast:....
Dunham - Microgamings 'Top Boy'
'These C***' Microgaming Staff
Nigel - Me!



Yeah I'm strange I know!

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Yeah I'm going off MG too, still only 1 withdrawal since October last year, must have easily made 100+ deposits, another £50 deposit and the 100% DB today at 32Red and was again chewed up and spat out in no time

 

[bowlingbob]

The Dark Knight Rises slot is a real bastard of a game. Always within the first couple hundred spins Bane and Batman will come out and fight after the spin building up the free spins amount and eventually the multiplier. Also get a decent line win here and there. Then it always goes abruptly to a stone cold dead mode no more fights come out to increase your spins and the bonus takes several hundreds spins to trigger while it eats your balance away. The bonus finally will come but give only a fraction of what you lost building up the spins and multiplier.

Did get this on IR yesterday. It's the best multiplier I've gotten on either TSII or IR.

 

[JackMack]

For me the idea that the games are not random is as misleading as they are totally random and the TRTP never changes.
The reality is somewhere in between and the TRTP can be changed but the slots will always maintain an element of randomness.

I don't think any genuine slots player could deny that there are times when the better symbols (wilds and scatters for example) seem to all but "disappear" from the reels. This is true of every software from RTG to Net Ent to MGS or whatever but that doesn't mean the game is rigged or not random but it does mean that the virtual stop positions are weighted just as with 3 reel slots (Which we know for a fact) but the 3 reel slots are still random as well. It is just that instead of drawing very long reel strips to visually represent the probabilities with few good symbols they just weight the probabilities instead.
So a reel strip might be 20 symbols long on a 3 reel slot with a bonus symbol on 3rd reel which needs to hit the centre line to trigger. Well of course the bonus has much less probability than a 1 in 20 chance so they weight that stop position so if it was stop position 5=bonus for example that stop position mugh have 1 in 150 probability of hitting even though the reel is only 20 symbols long which is why in such games you will see the bonus symbol appear above and below the winline much more frequently that on it. At least that is how they used to do it a few years back and build PAR sheet of probabilities of wins on which the TRTP was calculated so I assume it is the same today/

When it was proven that 5 reel slots (MGS) used the same methods people got upset for some reason because the symbols and paytable did not match the promoted RTP of the game. This was simply because MGS had weighted the stop positions rather than draw all the symbols on the reels as with 3 reel slots but MGS changed the slots after that so that the visual representation of the reels matched the paytables. (The RTP theoretically remained the same)

So what does all that mean?
It means that stop positions are still weighted just as they always were even if we now seemingly have an accurate visual representation of the probability of certain symbol landing and the big problem is that weighting can be altered on the fly for every stop position in an instant and the player would never know - worse still I believe even under UKGC strict terms this would be legal so long as the games advertised TRTP were met and they maintained randomness.
I am 100% certain this is how modern software functions and why important symbols go hot and cold well beyond normal randomness if probability remained the same. I am talking as someone who has played millions upon millions of spins as many of you will have.

So when you are playing and feel like you can't miss you are still playing a random game but he probabilities of the better symbols landing are much more favourable and conversely when you can't hit and the scatters and wilds seem to disappear you are still playing a random game but the better symbols have been weighted so for example if the average were for a scatter on reel one to appear were 1 in 15 it may in fact be 1 in 50 or 1 in 10 or whatever depending on RTP setting.
This is why slots will seem to go "atone cold" because the important symbols are pretty much weighted out of the game and you may actually be playing a spin with something like 70% RTP not 96% which is why the casinos instance each spin is independent and you always have the same chance of winning is certainly untrue though when they say they are random and functioning with expected parameters then it is true.

Now while I believe it is an indisputable fact that the stop positions are weighted I cannot be sure whether they are weighted on the gaming server or casino wide or even account specific (They are all completely possible online). Nor can I be sure as to whether the weighting is set when you load an individual game or whether it changes as you play on the fly - it could even be a complex set of local and universal values are used with complex algorithms but that is teetering on conspiracy theory and really I just want to discuss the reality and what we know.
We know that we can play a slot that is hot and hit a big win and then it suddenly turn stone cold - if you didn't play slots or understand the mathematics you might say that is just variance but if you play slots and understand mathematics you know something very different is going on and you could probably make a lot of money off the debunkers by betting with them you would hit <80% RTP in the next 500 spins or whatever when the slot turns stone cold.
You just know you aren't going to hit and that isn't a gut feeling of a slot player, it is because you see no wins, the wilds virtually never appear where as before your big win they were coming in all the time, the same with the scatters and you know if and when you finally hit the bonus again it will pay peanuts.
Believe me as a slot player my instinct is to run away but as someone who is curious as to how the games work I have tested this to the limit and never have I been surprised by the outcome.

This is interesting because it suggests that the weighting is indeed live, it is the only logical explanation as to how a slot can be hot and pay big and then suddenly turn stone cold.
I have not been able to make a connection between winning/losing on one slot and winning/losing on another though although it does seem no matter the casino or software the slots are either almost all cold or almost all hot in a session until something suddenly changes. Just recently I was up to nearly $700 from a $20 deposit playing small flat bets of 30c or so hitting every slot and bonus rounds for fun (Believe me it was a long, long, long drought before this streak) so obviously the games weren't "rigged to payout" but I think it is fair to say the slots were all set to a very high RTP that I played yet once the worm turned I lost that flat betting in small bets and could hit nothing any slot - stone dead complete opposite and my RTP from that $700 over thousands and thousands of spins must have been around %75. Clearly this is well outside what we would expect from natural variance and again I think it is reasonable to suggest my chances of winning had greatly changed. But was this my account specific, Casino wide, game server wide?
So what I am saying is the slots will always be random and the overall TRTP somewhere around 90% lifetime (my experience and not the widely used 96%)but your probability of winning could be different from 1 day to the next or even 1 spin to the next.
In other words the variance and TRTP are artificial and functions of algorithms that dictate the weighting of stop positions even though they maintain randomness and likely fall within legal guidelines. (It is not impossible to hit a good win on %75 TRTP slot, it just very unlikely)

The big issue is of course that such functions are non transparent and open to abuse but I don't believe MGS or the vast majority of Casinos are dishonest in any way, just disingenuous.
If you managed to wade through all that or even just scrolled down here is a screenshot during my winstreak and it is entirely my fault I lost it all again no matter my returns or disingenuous weighting system. I bitch and moan and get mad but ultimately knowing what I know I still play and overall enjoy my experience - like others I just think MGS and others have been overly greedy in recent years but hey as long as we keep playing they will keep tweaking for maximum profit.

 

[KasinoKing]

I think a post like that will virtually guarantee you one of Dunover's biggest, gold-lined, tin foil hats!

KK

 

[JackMack]

I think a post like that will virtually guarantee you one of Dunover's biggest, gold-lined, tin foil hats!

KK

I will wear it with pride because virtually all the information was factual with little theory.
Is Dunover an affiliate per chance?
Also I state neither the Casinos or the software is dishonest or rigged so a little odd it should be seen as conspiracy theory?
Perhaps posing a winning screenshot with the post was the only truly misleading aspect of how the games work?
Regardless genuine players will recognise or dismiss the information and either way it won't change whether anyone plays or not.
I am 100% certain (know for a fact) that weighting is applied to stop positions yet I still play.

PS
I would be interested to read a detailed technical explanation from Dunover on how the how the games work, he must surely have a very intimate knowledge if he can easily dismiss perfectly plausible explanations.

 

[Jono777]

As you can probably guess from my 'thanks' I can see both sides of the coin.

The fact however remains that these MG slots do not play the same (in general over 1,000's of spins) as they did / have done for the last 'x' years. To back up a point raise by Jack in his 'big' post, I noticed the decline after introduction of new UKGC rulings/laws.

I will also wear a full tin foil suit with pride!

 

[winbig]

ATo back up a point raise by Jack in his 'big' post, I noticed the decline after introduction of new UKGC rulings/laws.

I will also wear a full tin foil suit with pride!

Maybe it's because they want to get back (from the players) all of the tax money (and then some...of course they're greedy) they're having to fork over?

 

[ProbabilityZero]

I don't really have an opinion as I honestly wouldn't have a clue. I have good runs and bad runs. I'm more inclined to believe it's just down to bad luck though but who knows.

Immortal Romance has been brutal to me last couple of months. With a grand wagered I got about £500 back on 30p spins so around 50% RTP.

I had my first favourable MG all nighter for awhile last night .Deposited £35 and withdrew £95. I played Rabbit in the Hat on 9p spins, Big Chef on 15p spins, Hound Hotel on 25p spins, Penguin Splash 10p spins and Terminator 2 30p spins.

Out of the above Penguin Splash which is mind boggingly boring and is supposed to have the lowest variance ironically in around 2000 spins only managed 80% RTP.

Terminator and Hound Hotel gave me over 100% last night hence a profit

 

[Jono777]

....and its a **BUST**

Another 32 Red DOTD 100% with out even meeting 1/2 the WR.

This is another way I know 'gremlins are in the works', used to meet whole WR on 100% days, 7/10 for months on end, think I've managed it 4-5 times all 2015!!

3rd Spin, 1st Game at start, thought 'Yes, tonight's the night'



This then set the mood for the rest of the session.

 

[lotusch]

I find it hard to give an accurate opinion about Microgaming slots as they both gave me highs but many more lows.
In the beginning,when I just started to play online I did hit a few very nice wins on MGS slots,mostly on the 243 lines slots.
But the last year they have been mostly stone cold for me and I am really playing them with caution these days.
I still like them but i.m.h.o they are genuine bankroll destroyers.
They can all make up for it in just one perfect spin,this goes for most MGS 243 liners.
Problem is,when is this hit gonna come around for ya. One never knows.
I am well up on TS II,TFROL and IR but I am having serious issues with Playboy,Avalon II,Jurrassic Park and Game of Thrones 243 lines.
On these slots my lifetime RTP is well below 60% and I just keep playing them to see if it ever will improve.
Also the latest range of MGS slots is not to my taste,the kitty and dog one are shite,the pistolera's one is shite,Hot as Hades is probably one of their worst releases ever,so yeah I dunno about MGS anymore.

These days,and I would think it would never say it,I really do enjoy and appreciate Netent slots.
Not CFTBL and JATBS as they are on my blacklist,useless pieces of crap.
But the rest of their range I really do enjoy and I manage to get some decent results lately,not software for 1000x + stake wins often but loads of 50-750x bet wins are defo possible.
I managed to build up a decent bankroll just playing Netent and my favourite WMS slots on my last sessions.

So MGS,I still play it but I won't be stuck on a slot anyore for hours when it is stone cold.
I spin it like 50 or 100 times and then move back to Netent or WMS.

Also lately I can vouch for Novomatic slots to be completely and utterly rubbish.
Haven't had a single decent win in this whole year yet.
Like the slots just don't payout at all really.
But that is for another thread maybe!

 

[ProbabilityZero]

....and its a **BUST**

Another 32 Red DOTD 100% with out even meeting 1/2 the WR.

This is another way I know 'gremlins are in the works', used to meet whole WR on 100% days, 7/10 for months on end, think I've managed it 4-5 times all 2015!!

3rd Spin, 1st Game at start, thought 'Yes, tonight's the night'

View attachment 57128

This then set the mood for the rest of the session.

Jon.... Dump this vampire blood sucking slot. She ain't worth it

I have..... Mostly..... Just the occasional 10 spins..... Just in case..... Less painful!

 

[electronictonic]

Often wonder how these things pop into my head, hopefully a few other will appreciate too!

The Cast:....
Dunham - Microgamings 'Top Boy'
'These C***' Microgaming Staff
Nigel - Me!



Yeah I'm strange I know!

Nah this is what happens to you if you play Microgaming nowadays.

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but yeah since the back end of last year they have gone utterly vile
hundreds upon hundreds of spins and never get more than x20 in a bonus round these days.

 

[plasticnote]

I have had a bad run this & last month on MG. It is so bad that I could not recall ever happened in past few years.

I am not pointing at any particular slots, just in general, slots seems not playing correctly, ... maybe the Mega Moolah is about to pay out? and it is so high, need sucking in more money to cover the cost for each MG casino?

 

[psychogene]

You know what I hate ... playing IR in real play mode and busting out after about 250 spins on $30 and 0.30p bets. Took me 70 spins or so to even see my first 2 scatters. No 'big wins' or anything

Then jumping to free play mode and what do you know ... hit free spin within 10 spins, chose Sarah (who never pays out in real mode) and then hitting a x350 bonus round. Hit free spins again after 20-30 spins and I just closed it because to me its just making fun of my real play luck.

 

[randomiam]

so over it

i played the other day at 32red where in past years ive done well but the last two have been alot different yes im wearing a tinfoil hat
many sessions on ir and its horrid after horrid i went thru 400 spins no feature or wins over 20 times very few paying features just nothing
im pretty much about to give up on micro gaming. i even had a case with another casino where i was doing well then connection drops log back in and its complete quick and nasty loss of 100 with nothing its beyond a joke just no longer happy playing the games on avg i used to get a fair run but after so many bad ones in a row at many places flash and download i think im giving microgaming the cold shoulder from now on

 

[AudiManinBoro]

I`ve always defended Microgaming to the hilt but I`m beginning to start to wonder if there isnt any truth in MG casinos being hurt and affected by all the multi platforms that are popping up. Normally I have losses and wins and sometimes it swings more harshly one way than the other but never disastrously so. This month has been horrendous. Utterly horrendous for my play at MG. In fact I cant recall ever having had a month like it. The ironic thing is it started off brilliantly and about 5 days into the month it simply died and I mean literally died. Day after day after day of deposits gone in MicroGaming seconds. Talk about becoming disillusioned. Wondering if the end is nigh........

 

[ProbabilityZero]

You know what I hate ... playing IR in real play mode and busting out after about 250 spins on $30 and 0.30p bets. Took me 70 spins or so to even see my first 2 scatters. No 'big wins' or anything

Then jumping to free play mode and what do you know ... hit free spin within 10 spins, chose Sarah (who never pays out in real mode) and then hitting a x350 bonus round. Hit free spins again after 20-30 spins and I just closed it because to me its just making fun of my real play luck.

I can beat that

£25.50 on 30p spins and got just 102 spins that's only £5.60 won and £30.60 wagered

RTP 18%

I'm done with Immortal Romance. Only played it as was £25.00 bonus money won from loaded tournaments and thought best to try a high variance to meet WR. Not even 2x play through let alone 30x.

 

[Jono777]

Nah this is what happens to you if you play Microgaming nowadays.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

but yeah since the back end of last year they have gone utterly vile
hundreds upon hundreds of spins and never get more than x20 in a bonus round these days.

Perfect Video lol!

Probably the wrong wording but I am 'glad' it is not just me. Trouble is it will take 100's of players with 'stats galore' to prove anything and I now realise that Microgaming know this so exploit the fact that they will get away with whatever 'it' is.

I only played MG slots in my 'earlier years' no other provider and was in profit EVERY year until 2015 (yes no BS this is factual!!!), something ain't right!

 

[funnymunny]

...

I only played MG slots in my 'earlier years' no other provider and was in profit EVERY year until 2015 (yes no BS this is factual!!!), something ain't right!

So you were "in profit EVERY year" and didn't complain about something being amiss. You know game payouts are always set below 100% and so now the games are balancing out to what they are designed to do (pay less than 100%), it's now that "something ain't right"?

 

[Jono777]

Fair point (no need for the 'rolls eyes' however)

It is my belief/knowledge that each slot spin is supposed to be random/ independent of previous results.

My point was that 2015 in comparison is not even close to previous years play on Microgaming Slots.

I could give numerous examples, one being the same DOA win lines from the same winners (yes I know its Netent, just an example, still a slot!), I play Microgaming every day (well almost) and thus got very experienced and although you can never predict spot on, as a player I got 'used' to 'what to expect' every 'x' session.

In theory a player could win 100x on the same slot 1st spin every day, the fact that they were in profit prior to this is irrelevant (or at least supposed to be) but that is a discussion for another time and another place!

 

[goatwack]

So you were "in profit EVERY year" and didn't complain about something being amiss. You know game payouts are always set below 100% and so now the games are balancing out to what they are designed to do (pay less than 100%), it's now that "something ain't right"?

I don't see why people get bashed for basic human observations. I mean it's no different to being married for 20 years and noticing your wife wearing a different perfume.....and your post doesn't arrive as often......neither does your milk deliveries

People are obsessed with TRP and what they are owed and when. Fact is, it is all hypothetical and nobody can give a definitive and transparent answer on this. It would be easy to calculate on a closed session, problem is that slot spins are ongoing and infinite in number so despite all the theorizing we know nothing.

Like Jon said, I expect each spin to be completely independent of the last, the TRP is something the slot has been designed to aspire to but may never actually reach, certainly not in our limited sessions. So I see no problem in getting a few weeks/ months of good gameplay, hell, it should even be possible to go one's lifetime over hundreds of thousands of spins and be in profit.

What's annoying is the unashamed coldness of many MG games in recent weeks. This isn't just a downturn of fortune and gradual bust after a fair session, this is bordering on theft. There is nothing worse than feeling you're not getting at least a fair game and this has been noticed by just about everyone that has played MG pretty much all year

 

[funnymunny]

It is my belief/knowledge that each slot spin is supposed to be random/ independent of previous results.

My point was that 2015 in comparison is not even close to previous years play on Microgaming Slots.

If you believed your first statement (each spin being random/independent), why would you expect results from 2015 to be comparable to previous years?

Dictionary.com states the definition of random as "occuring without definite aim, reason, or pattern". As your results were completely different, surely the games are therefore achieving this?

I play Microgaming every day (well almost) and thus got very experienced and although you can never predict spot on, as a player I got 'used' to 'what to expect' every 'x' session.

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems to me you're now contradicting the first statement I quoted from you above. How could you get "'used' to 'what to expect' every 'x' session" if the spins were random and independent of previous spins?

In theory a player could win 100x on the same slot 1st spin every day...

I totally agree 1,000. However please don't forget that for this to be true, the opposite must also be possible, with players never getting a win of 100x on any spin on any day.

...the fact that they were in profit prior to this is irrelevant (or at least supposed to be) but that is a discussion for another time and another place!

That's fine, but remember you were the one that introduced the statement that you were previously always in profit. (Huge congrats on that btw! )

 

[funnymunny]

So you were "in profit EVERY year" and didn't complain about something being amiss. You know game payouts are always set below 100% and so now the games are balancing out to what they are designed to do (pay less than 100%), it's now that "something ain't right"?

I don't see why people get bashed for basic human observations.

I hadn't realised that making an observation or questioning a statement was 'bashing'.

Like Jon said, I expect each spin to be completely independent of the last

I'd suggest we all do, but when it turns out they are, some people seem to let conspiracy theories take over. (E.g. "I used to win & now I don't, therefore something must have changed". You could win every spin, or you could lose every spin, it doesn't have to mean something has been changed, it just means the game is doing what it's been designed to do. I.e. Not let the results of previous spins influence future ones. (Again, I'm not bashing anyone here, I'm merely presenting my own / alternate viewpoint (or is this me being insensitive again?!))).

What's annoying is the unashamed coldness of many MG games in recent weeks. This isn't just a downturn of fortune and gradual bust after a fair session, this is bordering on theft. There is nothing worse than feeling you're not getting at least a fair game and this has been noticed by just about everyone that has played MG pretty much all year

I'd hazard a guess that there's just as many 'f-you MGS' posts as there 'yay MGS' pics uploaded in the 'Winner Screenshots' sections. Happy to be proved wrong though